Quoted from moto_cat:This thread , the gift that keeps on giving
Yep! Way more action over here. They are still waiting to see an actual pic of MMr on the update thread. 
(Topic ID: 98940)
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Austin, TX
Quoted from Rarehero:Popping in a coin mech isn't "retrofitting". Look - I know you're from Texas, which means you can never admit to being wrong…but - you're wrong.
Whoa - this sh1t just got real... I know your from CA; so I'll let your self-importance be your downfall.
It is retrofitting if you have to buy a $60 set of coin mechs. It's not coin op. period.
It's a slippery mudslide you should be all too familiar with...
First Coin Mechs... then; why do we need to test this feature? Then why do we need to put a coin box in; that's another $100s we can save off our bom.
Your entitled to your improper definition of a coin op machine; even if it's contrary to established norms.
Quoted from Zitt:Whoa - this sh1t just got real... I know your from CA; so I'll let your self-importance be your downfall.
It's not self importance. I'm explaining facts. You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. MMr is a coin-op machine. Fact. End of story. Can you put your pride down long enough to just admit it? Facts trump Texas pride.
Also, your first "your" should be "you're". Are you going to tell me I'm wrong on that one, too?
Quoted from Zitt:It is retrofitting if you have to buy a $60 set of coin mechs.
Wait, now they're $60? You just keep making shit up.
Quoted from Zitt:It's not coin op. period.
You just said you can buy $60 coin mechs, which would then make it coin operated…so - it is a coin operated machine.
Quoted from Zitt:IIt's a slippery mudslide you should be all too familiar with...
Nope, I've never eaten Texan food.
Quoted from Zitt:First Coin Mechs... then; why do we need to test this feature? Then why do we need to put a coin box in; that's another $100s we can save off our bom.
Now you're just making shit up. Again.
Quoted from Zitt:Your entitled to your improper definition of a coin op machine; even if it's contrary to established norms.
You're entitled to your delusions about what this machine is and isn't. Facts prove you wrong.
Tell Ben Heck that AMH isn't a coin-op game. It doesn't ship with coin-mechs.
Tell me BBB isn't a coin-op game. It also didn't ship with coin-mechs.
Yet, hmmm….those games are on locations, accepting COINS! OMG!!!!
Quoted from Zitt:I know your from CA; so I'll let your self-importance be your downfall.
EZ there Trigger! We don't all take our selves so seriously around here. 
Quoted from Rarehero:Stern Iron Man Classic and BDK Standard (Costco versions) are not coin op machines
They literally do not have coin slots nor the ability to accept coins.
Wrong. Both have a single coin slot and a single coin mech. The only configuration allowed on them was 5 credits for 1 coin/ token. Are you new to the hobby?
Quoted from Zitt:Whoa - this sh1t just got real... I know your from CA; so I'll let your self-importance be your downfall.
Hilarious that he called someone else here a know it all in another thread today. As you can see above, no one here knows more than him. lol
I am not sure what his cost is on these mech's but I know what I paid for some metal ones out in Cali so if you take that and multiply it by 2 and then multiply that number by 1,000 (LE machines) you come up with $10,000
So in the grand scheme of things, it really isn't that much of a savings..........
Good lord. I think it was dumb to not include the coin mechs, the "would make it complicated for international markets" thing is a cop out. It's just a bad PR move on Chicago Gaming's part and I'm sure Rick wishes they hadn't done it. But it's really, really not a big deal. Why are we blowing this up to this level?
It's still a coin op machine. If you say it isn't you're being hyperbolic and ridiculous. Hell it would probably even still work if you stuck a quarter in it, the mech is just a validator and guide, if you drop a quarter in it will still likely fall and trigger the switch and add a credit. Problem is any coin that fits the slot will likely do it too, hence the whole point of a coin mech.
It's super freaking easy to add in a new mech, takes a minute at most to line things up and pop it in, less once you've done it a couple times. They're $10 each. I've installed plenty, if you buy a commercial coin door it won't come with them, that's standard practice.
I have 6 pinball machines. I've never put a quarter in any of them. I presume the mechs in them work, but I couldn't care less. If you're someone who doesn't want to leave his machine on free play or just likes the completionist feel then spend the $20 (or less, sounds like Rick has a discounted offer) and move on with your life with less ulcers. If you can't casually afford $20 to make yourself happy then maybe don't buy $8000 toys.
Quoted from Jetzxi:So in the grand scheme of things, it really isn't that much of a savings..........
Depends on which side of the box you're on.......
th-1-64.jpeg
Quoted from phishrace:Wrong. Both have a single coin slot and a single coin mech. The only configuration allowed on them was 5 credits for 1 coin/ token. Are you new to the hobby?
Are you new to reality? So desperate to prove me wrong & insult me, but once again the facts are on my side.
Show me the coin slot on this Iron Man Classic. Made for the home, no coin-op functionality
batmanlite1.jpg
OK, so BDK did in fact have a coinslot…but clearly it's made for home use and its option for 5 credits would not make it a viable coin-operated device.
ironmanlite7.jpg
Quoted from phishrace:Hilarious that he called someone else here a know it all in another thread today. As you can see above, no one here knows more than him. lol
You're such a f'n hypocrite….go back to judging people based on their location and tournament play habits.
Quoted from pezpunk:this will go down as the most absurd controversy in pinside history.
I don't know. That's a pretty tough competition.
To my knowledge the original MM shipped with coin mechs (correct me if I am wrong) so I thought MMR would ship with coin mech's for individual countries when it was announced. Maybe the dealers in other countries installed their own coin mechs??
Some of you don't care about coin mechs and I can understand that. Rick said NO so I have already bought a couple for the game when it arrives. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.
I suspect the next game that Rick will announce will be sold out in under an hour despite the trim and coin mech talk.
Quoted from sd_tom:I thank this thread for helping fill out my ignore list a bit
I know, I think I got like 7 off this one thread. I think I had 4 total from all the other threads combined, lol. 
Would any of the people who ordered the game for HUO want the Coin mechs or is this strictly a issue for people who put the game on location? Maybe it's just a small portion of the preorders and they caused this huge uproar over a small savings. Offer it as a free add on for those that need it and a move on. Why let these bad vibes continue for a $20 part.
Quoted from Borygard:I'd recommend adding a remote skylight that opens on your ceiling that the balloon can go through. That way the neighbors know when you're playing. Connect the skylight to the Witch mech, and have it open and close when the Witch goes up and down.
Great idea! I'm gonna jump right on that!
Strictly for location and those one or two guys who like to coin up the games in their basements.
Quoted from XLdad:Would any of the people who ordered the game for HUO want the Coin mechs or is this strictly a issue for people who put the game on location?
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Quoted from jalpert:Strictly for location and those one or two guys who like to coin up the games in their basements.
Or those of us buying a $8,000 advertised replica (excluding licensing issues) of a $3,000 machine back in 1997.
Rare - your command of the Written Word is certainly skewed. You must be in sales, marketing, or politics.
At best MMr is a Coin-OP Capable machine. It is not a coin op machine as it requires a retrofit of a pair $16 coin mechs for it to be a coin-op machine. Both terms are 100% correct; don't go "playing with the words" because you think you can "justify" your insistence that it is a coin op machine. It simply isn't until someone retrofits said coinmechs in place. If MMr's brochures or any other marketing documentation claims itself to be a coin op machine... then well; they are putting themselves up for a false advertising claim.
"Coin operated" is defined as:
" adjective
adjective: coin-operated
1. operated by inserting coins in a slot.
"coin-operated telephones"
2. noun: coin-operated; plural noun: coin-operateds; noun: coin-op; plural noun: coin-ops
a machine that is coin-operated.
"
Retrofit is defined as:
"verb
verb: retrofit; 3rd person present: retrofits; past tense: retrofitted; past participle: retrofitted; gerund or present participle: retrofitting
1) add (a component or accessory) to something that did not have it when manufactured.
"drivers who retrofit catalysts to older cars"
2) provide (something) with a component or accessory not fitted to it during manufacture.
"buses have been retrofitted with easy-access features"
noun: retrofit; plural noun: retrofits
an act of adding a component or accessory to something that did not have it when manufactured.
"
So; It is 100% point blank accurate to say MMr is not a coin-operated machine and that it requires a retrofit of the coin-mechs at additional costs to make it so. Further; Just because you can retrofit the mechs into the machine makes not guarantee that said machine will function as a coin-op machine. I doubt your buddies at PPS are planning on testing all the features of said coin-op machine on a per-unit basis... so it's possible you as the new owner of your non-coin-op machine will have to fight with PPS to get it repaired under warranty.
Whatever the case; I'm done "sparing" with you over the English language. Your "facts" are certainly a waste of time.
Quoted from Zitt:Rare - your command of the Written Word is certainly skewed. You must be in sales, marketing, or politics.
None of the above. You're really good at making up incorrect accusations.
Quoted from Zitt:At best MMr is a Coin-OP Capable machine. It is not a coin op machine as it requires a retrofit of a pair $16 coin mechs for it to be a coin-op machine.
You're boring. And a liar. Just let it go. Cancel your order. Get a refund. You don't even understand the machine you bought. It's not for you. It's a coin-op machine that doesn't ship with the coin mech piece that easily pops right into the coin door...just like BBB, just like AMH. So, seriously, stop lying about it. It's called libel.
Quoted from Zitt:I doubt your buddies at PPS are planning on testing all the features of said coin-op machine on a per-unit basis... so it's possible you as the new owner of your non-coin-op machine will have to fight with PPS to get it repaired under warranty.
Dude. It's a standard Happ coin door. What exactly is there to test!??! The coin falls through the mech and hits a switch. This is a coindoor that's been used for what, 20 or 30 years? They can test the switches just fine without the mech. You clearly still don't know what a coin mech is, how it works, or how pinball manufacturing and testing works. Just stop. Stop saying words. You're not good at it!
Quoted from Zitt:Whatever the case; I'm done "sparing" with you over the English language. Your "facts" are certainly a waste of time.
A Texan who doesn't like facts!?!?! 
Surprise, surprise, surprise.
Quoted from Rarehero:You're boring. And a liar.
LOL - K. Child.
Thread drained
Quoted from Zitt:LOL - K. Child.
Thread drained
A Texan concession. You have realized that the facts cannot be overthrown by pride.
I accept.
Quoted from Rarehero:Cancel your order. Get a refund.
Hasn't that ship sailed. I thought deposits were locked in.
Quoted from KoolFingers:I thought deposits were locked in.
That's where RobT comes in.
Quoted from Zitt:It is not a coin op machine as it requires a retrofit of a pair $16 coin mechs for it to be a coin-op machine.
Hmm, first the $10 coin mechs were $60, now they're strangely $16. And lol, "retrofit". You take them out of the box and push them into place. The switch to accept the coin and give you a credit isn't even part of them, that's already included in the coin door MMr will ship with.
I really don't understand why people can't just express unhappiness with this (it's dumb as I've already noted) without resorting to making up wild prices and throwing around scare words like "retrofit", like you have to get out your welding tools or something.
Installing both coin mechs will take less time than it did for me to write this post, it's easy and not a big deal.
Quoted from Aurich:Good lord. I think it was dumb to not include the coin mechs, the "would make it complicated for international markets" thing is a cop out. It's just a bad PR move on Chicago Gaming's part and I'm sure Rick wishes they hadn't done it. But it's really, really not a big deal. Why are we blowing this up to this level?
If you agree that it was "dumb" to not include coin mechs (ON A COIN OPERATED MACHINE), and that Rick's explanation about it making it too complicated for international markets was nothing more than a "cop out", and it's a "bad PR move on Chicago Gaming's part"....how can you go on to say that it's "really, really not a big deal"?
Quoted from o-din:That's where RobT comes in.
Why you, I oughta....!!!
Quoted from RobT:how can you go on to say that it's "really, really not a big deal"?
Because it's not! It's $20 and two minutes of time for the handful of people that will even care! Yes, it was dumb, it's created waaaaay more ill will than it was worth just stick in some damn mechs, even if US only and tell everyone else to swap them. Stupid PR move.
But it doesn't render the machine useless, unplayable, or hard to "fix". It's simply a minor issue.
Quoted from Aurich:Installing both coin mechs will take less time than it did for me to write this post, it's easy and not a big deal.
I see that you either type extremely slow, or you have never installed coin mechs. 
Quoted from Aurich:Because it's not! It's $20 and two minutes of time for the handful of people that will even care! Yes, it was dumb, it's created waaaaay more ill will than it was worth just stick in some damn mechs, even if US only and tell everyone else to swap them. Stupid PR move.
But it doesn't render the machine useless, unplayable, or hard to "fix". It's simply a minor issue.
I think you nailed the issue in your post.
It truly is a matter of degree. There is lots of hyperbole by both sides on this issue, and you engaged in that hyperbole (or straw man argument) yourself (nobody is saying it renders the machine useless or unplayable).
Essex, ON
Quoted from Aurich:Because it's not! It's $20 and two minutes of time for the handful of people that will even care! Yes, it was dumb, it's created waaaaay more ill will than it was worth just stick in some damn mechs, even if US only and tell everyone else to swap them. Stupid PR move.
But it doesn't render the machine useless, unplayable, or hard to "fix". It's simply a minor issue.
http://www.theplaydiumstore.com/Canadian_Loonie_Coin_Mech_p/42-3066-101.htm
(the quarter ones are $24.95). Then I have to incur shipping….so $60, is pretty legit.
I agree, it is really a minor issue…just a tough pill to swallow after shelling out the 8K (10K for us Canucks)!
Bad PR = yes
Stupid Move = yes
Annoying = yes
Excited for my MMRLE = YES!!!!
Quoted from KoolFingers:Hasn't that ship sailed. I thought deposits were locked in.
I've said this 50 times.
I'll say it again.
Pinball business people more often than not bend the "rules" to satisfy a customer. If this issue is causing you ulcers, I guarantee if you call your distrib and/or Rick and go apeshit about it - they will give you a full refund OR some coin mechs just to calm you down and make you happy.
Has anyone done this yet!? I'm waiting for someone to say they did it and were told "tough shit".
Quoted from RobT:I see that you either type extremely slow, or you have never installed coin mechs.
Read my other posts, I've installed plenty of coin mechs. It's easy! I even have a photo of how they go in from when I was building my virtual pin, grabbed this from another forum where I was documenting things, people who know me can verify I wear that Speedmaster all time, it's my arm:
Quoted from Rarehero:I've said this 50 times.
I'll say it again.
pinball business people more often than not bend the "rules" to satisfy a customer.
Quoted from beachybrid:Why would anybody on earth preorder a pinball machine?! Especially from a company that hasn't established itself with many machines yet. This coin mech nonsense is happening because those who preordered left themselves voiceless. This is a business and its not doing you any favors, you are doing them favors. If there were no preorders, the business would trim up and add so much to this machine to win you over, everyone would be excited about announcements of add-ons/upgrades opposed to announcements of, "the business just made an extra 20k+ off everyone because we can" and you will sit there and take it. 1k, 5k, 8k, 20k - preorders are a joke. Anybody who runs a business plan and sees potential for more money on table will take it. Its not like there will be a shortage of MM and MMR's in 2 years. You can get one when its ready, you don't have to finance companies and put yourself in a position of waiting and wondering when when when and why why why.
Stop that logic nonsense. We don't take kindly to that here at Pinside 
Maybe rick will fall for reverse psychology, tell him nobody wants the mechs so he will put them in.
They're probably making a lot more money floating all the $8k payments that have already been made than the savings on the coin mechs but no one is complaining about that. It's a lot more fun to debate coin mechs than investment returns.
The time you guys spent on reading/contributing to this soap opera, you could have done this to one of your machines... Oh yeah, you know which one I'm talking about...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/repairrestoration-miracles#post-1821016
Get off your butts and go fix something ! ARGH !
-mof
Quoted from mof:Get off your butts and go fix something ! ARGH !
So zitt are you also pissed that MMr is wired for a bill acceptor but it does not include one and most all route ops will want to install one?
Quoted from beachybrid:Why would anybody on earth preorder a pinball machine?! Especially from a company that hasn't established itself with many machines yet.
Because Rick and PPS were brilliant - MMR was the perfect storm, priced perfectly for the market at the time. A remake of a game that people either loved or thought they should love that had become pretty much unobtainable because the supply/demand had bubbled all out of whack.
Rick announced an LE he thought would sell in three months. It sold out in three hours which led to a non-LE for the same price.
Everyone preordered because they could now have a shot at a new, possibly improved version of a holy grail machine that they had no chance of ever owning a week before.
NOBODY ordered because PPS/CGC was producing a pinball game - they ordered because they could finally buy a new Medieval Madness.
If Rick had announced any other title (even at a lower price), $8M wouldn't have been committed on paper in a matter of hours, the title wouldn't have instantly sold out and buyers would have been more rational and less impulsive.
Most would have taken a wait-and-see approach and bought after real games started showing up at distributors, especially since all they saw was a slide of a beagle board in a MM cabinet with a promise that it would work. (The second genius move was the Roger Sharpe seal of approval guarantee, but I've mentioned that before).
Quoted from luckymoey:They're probably making a lot more money floating all the $8k payments that have already been made than the savings on the coin mechs but no one is complaining about that. It's a lot more fun to debate coin mechs than investment returns.
Hmmm, I haven't had to pay any more than the original $1000 yet. Sounds like your distributor is raking you over the coals. My distributor is Rick. Who's yours??? 
Quoted from Pimp77:Hmmm, I haven't had to pay any more than the original $1000 yet. Sounds like your distributor is raking you over the coals. My distributor is Rick. Who's yours???
I have a lot of company but wouldn't call it raking over the coals. He is definitely not living by the spirit of PPS's original commitment though that the balance wouldn't be due until about 2-weeks prior to shipment. I had 2 on order the first day and canceled the one with Rick - live and learn. Not a big deal but on principle it's not how I like to do business, and am surprised about the outrage over the coin mechs in the scheme of things.
He asked who utilizes coin mechs. It appeared to be a serious and genuine question. I answered his question. You are a tad too angry about this, even for this thread.
Quoted from TVP:Or those of us buying a $8,000 advertised replica (excluding licensing issues) of a $3,000 machine back in 1997.
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