(Topic ID: 98940)

PPS / MMR communication - it's NOT about the coin mechs (or is it?)


By jfh

5 years ago



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#351 5 years ago

True. Out of the box, MMR cannot earn on location. I don't think anyone will dispute you on that.

Quoted from metallik:

"coin mech" = "money-taking device"

Out of the box, MMR cannot earn on location. It's balls are cut off.

#352 5 years ago
Quoted from viper001:

Hey, they used my list as a basis for answering questions! Bonus points for anyone that noticed what was omitted, but it was nice to see published answers to a lot of these questions...

Here's the missing questions...

3) Will there be a goodie bag?
4) If 3 is yes, will it contain spare plastics?
5) If 3 is yes, will it contain those wing bolt things for securing the head on location?

He answered affirmative to wing bolts, so assumption is there will not be a goodie bag or spare plastics since these were specifically not mentioned.

10) Original had a dedicated power supply for the flipper coils, does this one?
11) WPC can compensate for a broken EOS switch, can this one?

Answer to #10 is likely no, based on current knowledge of the game/electronics.

Answer to #11 has to be a yes, since every solid-state flipper game since Data East has enough basic programming to kill the flipper even if no EOS state change is detected.

13) Original could not be programmed to take a single coin for 1 credit, which some found to be a nuisance. Can this one?

Since it's running original code, the answer is likely no. In theory they could add code to the hypervisor to detect a single coin drop and feed the necessary coin switch inputs to the emulated MM code. This could be offered as an option in whatever hypervisor interface is used to set options such as screen color, etc.

#353 5 years ago

Those are all things that 100% of the buyers use. Everyone will see the dragon wings, everyone will see the translite, everyone will use the legs and leg bolts.

Only a very small percentage of people will need coin mechs.

I actually agree with you, it sucks the mechs won't be there. But arguments like this don't help your cause.

The difference is blatantly obvious between the coin mechs and those things.

Quoted from jfh:

What if the game didn't come with dragon wings? Or the translight? Or bolts for the legs? Or legs?

None of those are irreplaceable either.

It would only be comparable to the Stern Pro if the MMR flyer said "ready for coin mechs (not included)"

#354 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

Per Rick, most games are going to the home market.

Then why include a coin box, which if I read right, is included.

I believe the coin mechs were an oversight and caught at after the fact. Humans make mistakes it's a fact. To admit to making one shows a sign of integrity, which seems to be lacking in this day and age.

I may be wrong, I usually am, but that's how I see it. I haven't gotten in on this yet but was looking to buy one of the standards when I had money become available. I am still undecided at this point and will make my mind up after they are out.

#355 5 years ago
Quoted from chuck1972:

you should call Rick and talk directly to him. He has been very open with communication during this project, he has been here in this forum all the way answering questions..

As others has pointed out, Rick appears to only answer the questions he wants to and, as this thread shows, that doesn't include something as logical as "why not just ship mechs to those for whom this is an issue (if the numbers are so low)?".

I doubt Rick is interested in talking with me. He declined two opportunities by email to answer questions and has not responded to unrelated questions and offer of help since. He also assumed that since I didn't like the way this was handled, that I was upset about the game and wouldn't believe anything he said ("If you are really upset about the game and have all of these theories, it is unlikely that you would want this game, and it is also unlikely that anything that I say you will believe"), which doesn't sound like someone that understands or wants to understand my position. It's not hard to see that Rick just wants this all to go away (which it will, probably as soon as we see pictures of MMR on the line).

I admire Rick for what he's done, I think MMR is/will be a success, I want to buy what I hope become future remakes. I can do all that and still believe he has handled this situation poorly (and compounded it by not further addressing it).

If he sees this issue as important or doesn't understand what it is, I'm more than happy to talk with him about it. He has my phone number and I'm here pretty much all day every day. I'd prefer he discuss it in this thread for all to see, and will be pleasantly surprised if either happens.

#356 5 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Or do what I did and just bail on this wishy washy project. If they won't give you your money back, we'll get RobT involved.

Leave me out of this mess!

#357 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Leave me out of this mess!

Class action, baby!

#358 5 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Here's the missing questions...
3) Will there be a goodie bag?
4) If 3 is yes, will it contain spare plastics?
5) If 3 is yes, will it contain those wing bolt things for securing the head on location?
He answered affirmative to wing bolts, so assumption is there will not be a goodie bag or spare plastics since these were specifically not mentioned.
10) Original had a dedicated power supply for the flipper coils, does this one?
11) WPC can compensate for a broken EOS switch, can this one?
Answer to #10 is likely no, based on current knowledge of the game/electronics.
Answer to #11 has to be a yes, since every solid-state flipper game since Data East has enough basic programming to kill the flipper even if no EOS state change is detected.
13) Original could not be programmed to take a single coin for 1 credit, which some found to be a nuisance. Can this one?
Since it's running original code, the answer is likely no. In theory they could add code to the hypervisor to detect a single coin drop and feed the necessary coin switch inputs to the emulated MM code. This could be offered as an option in whatever hypervisor interface is used to set options such as screen color, etc.

you can't tell the game "1 coin 2 pulses" to get it to do 1 coin 1 credit?

#359 5 years ago

blb.jpg

#360 5 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

C'mon Greg, you're not that stupid.
A shaker is an accessory. A coin mech is an integral part of the machine.

Yup. I'm a blithering idiot. I've thoroughly enjoyed shaker motors. I've never used a coin mech on any of my games. Not remotely integral....and - if it is required for an operator, they can pop 2 of them in. Just like a shaker motor. POP it in! Function restored.

Quoted from jfh:

What if the game didn't come with dragon wings? Or the translight? Or bolts for the legs? Or legs?
None of those are irreplaceable either.
It would only be comparable to the Stern Pro if the MMR flyer said "ready for coin mechs (not included)"

You guys are really going to beat the "what else will be missing!?!!?!" thing to death, eh? ....and Metallik calls me 'stupid'.

Quoted from o-din:

Class action, baby!

Really?

I think I hate pinball now. We've reached peak insanity.

16
#361 5 years ago

Puts MMR on route, week later no money in cash box.
Discovers game doesn't come with coin mechs.

That isn't accurate. Any coin going into the coin chute will fall into the machine. Players just won't get credits.

#362 5 years ago

actually that would give you coins in cashbox, no plays and irritated customers. without a mech teh coin slot is open to the cashbox, nothing there to route it to the coin return.

#363 5 years ago

Puts MMR on route, week later money in cash box and the machine beat to hell.

#364 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

We've reached peach insanity.

super_princess_peach_001.jpg

#365 5 years ago

all you 8k pre order guys showing good faith and supporting rick and pps with mmre deserve better treatment then this imo. yet another reason why pre ordering is a suckers game. i will bet the next game comes with the ridiculous coin mech installed. on principle alone i won't support this behavior. i give a shit about a lousy 20$

#366 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

You guys are really going to beat the "what else will be missing!?!!?!" thing to death, eh? ....and Metallik calls me 'stupid'.

Do you know 100% whether anything else has changed? Or not?

Since Oct 2013's announcement of an "identical remake" we've lost the original shiny gold trim, Fliptronics (cry), coin mechs, apparently the goodie bag, and now the internal help screens require a translation documents. And that's just off the top of my head. Every month it seems something "new" is announced. Like the fact that this project is actually being driven by Chicago Gaming - they are the decision-makers - and that Rick is merely a licensor and advisor to the project.

"Stupid" is blindly believing everything you're told despite significant evidence to the contrary.

#367 5 years ago

abnormal brain.gif

#368 5 years ago

.

#369 5 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Do you know 100% whether anything else has changed? Or not?

I'm just going to remove myself from this irrational discourse.

I'll come back when my game arrives and I'll be happy to tell you if the flippers, legs, translight, harnesses, etc are missing...I'm sure you're totally right, I bet I'll open the box and there won't even be a game in there.

-1
#370 5 years ago
Quoted from taylor34:

"Yes, in order to make a lot more money we're going to add a $200 shaker motor and cut $20 worth of coin mechs". Why are people trying to read more into my post than that? If I'm trying to cut corners I put pegs instead of slide rails like stern did on IM. That's all I said.

Actually, the shaker motor itself (just the motor, not the wiring, weights, plastic cover), can be bought in large quantities for about the same price as a coin mech, both for less than $20. Obviously the mark-up on a shaker motor assembly is a heck of a lot more. Just FYI. Carry on.

#371 5 years ago

rec.games.pinside

So much drama here lately.

#372 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

We've reached peak insanity.

I knew I should have gone to the doctor when I saw that sore.

#373 5 years ago

better?
steve.jpg

#374 5 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Since Oct 2013's announcement of an "identical remake" we've lost the original shiny gold trim, Fliptronics

The original was stainless steel, not shiny gold.

Are the flipper coils not double wound ? Looks like fliptronics to me. Doesn't have a separate fliptronics board, which the original didn't either.

#375 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I'm just going to remove myself from this irrational discourse.
I'll come back when my game arrives and I'll be happy to tell you if the flippers, legs, translight, harnesses, etc are missing...I'm sure you're totally right, I bet I'll open the box and there won't even be a game in there.

I said changed, not missing, but feel free to drain the thread I do hope you enjoy your game when it shows up.

#376 5 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

The original was stainless steel, not shiny gold.
Are the flipper coils not double wound ? Looks like fliptronics to me. Doesn't have a separate fliptronics board, which the original didn't either.

Gee Lloyd, don't you think I'd know that considering I've stated repeatedly I own a WMS original?

I refer to the original TAFG-style shiny gold folks were expecting for this machine, and what appears to be shown on PPS's flyer for it.

Fliptronics.... Of course the original game doesn't have a separate fliptronics board. WMS incorporated all the same circuitry into the WPC95 board, and that is where it lives in MM original. You are REALLY stretching with comments like that. Wow. The flipper parts are the same but that is not Fliptronics. You know better than that, just as you know why there's no separate Fliptronics board in MM original.

18
#377 5 years ago

gsm.jpg

-2
#378 5 years ago

Before Rick came along, a NIB MM would have been upwards of $20,000. Now we are getting them for $8,000 but damn him for not including the $20 coin mechs! Oh, and he told us about it in a shitty way so there's that too!

Quoted from vex:

all you 8k pre order guys showing good faith and supporting rick and pps with mmre deserve better treatment then this imo. yet another reason why pre ordering is a suckers game. i will bet the next game comes with the ridiculous coin mech installed. on principle alone i won't support this behavior. i give a shit about a lousy 20$

#379 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

Before Rick came along, a NIB MM would have been upwards of $20,000. Now we are getting them for $8,000. blockquote>

I am not sure why it is so hard for many to realize that apples and oranges are different things?

You are getting a remake of an original for 8k and not an original. I have no idea what original NIB MMs go for but they are surely way more than MMR NIB.

MM does not = MMR

#380 5 years ago

You're right. MM does not = MMR. MMR is better. Better audio, brand new parts, extra clear on the play field.

No, we realize it's not the same, why can't you realize that in a lot of ways it's better?

Quoted from Whysnow:

I am not sure why it is so hard for many to realize that apples and oranges are different things?

#381 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

why can't you realize that in a lot of ways it's better?

Probably because it doesn't exist.

#382 5 years ago

Maybe Rick plans on routing a bunch and doesn't want any competition The last few games I bought from 2 operators wanted to yank the mech's out because they were threatened by me, they thought I was going to put them back out on route........ I talked both of them out of it.

#383 5 years ago

Lol...but most likely it's about saving 20-30k in costs.

#384 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I am not sure why it is so hard for many to realize that apples and oranges are different things?

You are getting a remake of an original for 8k and not an original. I have no idea what original NIB MMs go for but they are surely way more than MMR NIB.

MM does not = MMR

The only problem with that logic is its seriously flawed. I will pay 8k for a new version but not more than 5 for an old one. And with new ones why bother. To be honest if I have an 8k new one and a 5k older one I will still buy the new one.Most guys I am meeting are heading this way. Unless its collector quality restored, meaning if its remade. Then old box is just an old version and will end up cheaper very soon.
The day of these old boxes going up in value is gone. That was because the industry was closed and we were saving / cherishing old stuff. Again as soon as its remade there is no point in having the old one except amazing examples for collectors.

#385 5 years ago

I like that logic. As soon as an old one gets to $3500, I may go ahead and pick one up. It may even come with coin mechs.

#386 5 years ago

So by that logic a 66 corvette is worth less (read: less collectible) than a new `14 corvette?!
Um... no.. thanks.

To me it all comes down to one thing: playablity.
I'd own either if there were reasonably in-expensive.
I can't see paying 8k for a remake... it makes no financial sense as 8k was/is a market driven price.

I will have some hard decisions to make if/when PPS decides to make a non-coinop AFMr.

#387 5 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

I will have some hard decisions to make if/when PPS decides to make a non-coinop AFMr.

They're only making coin-op games. Learn what a coin mech is & stop being maniacs, maniacs.

-6
#388 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

They're only making coin-op games. Learn what a coin mech is & stop being maniacs, maniacs.

If it doesn't provide coin mechs; it's not a coinop machine. Their QA process needs to prove its a coin-op machine.
Stop being such a cluess fanboy, fanboy.

-1
#389 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I'm just going to remove myself from this irrational discourse.

Quoted from Rarehero:

They're only making coin-op games. Learn what a coin mech is & stop being maniacs, maniacs.

Now we know where LYING MAN went...

LIONMAN!!

#390 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

They're only making coin-op games.

The truth is that Chicago Gaming makes or made both coin-op and non coin-op versions of the same Arcade type gaming systems, depending on if they were for the home or not.
I had an Arcade Legends machine that was very high quality, but nowhere to put a coin.
Maybe that had something to do with the confusion there.

#391 5 years ago

I thank this thread for helping fill out my ignore list a bit

#392 5 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

If it doesn't provide coin mechs; it's not a coinop machine. Their QA process needs to prove its a coin-op machine.
Stop being such a cluess fanboy, fanboy.

Who's clueless!??!?! Do you know what a coin mech is!?!??!?! It's a piece that pops in!!

Zizzle's not a coin op machine
Stern Iron Man Classic and BDK Standard (Costco versions) are not coin op machines

They literally do not have coin slots nor the ability to accept coins. They're programmed to be freeplay only.

MMr IS a coin-op machine! It has a standard Happ coin door with 2 coin slots! It has software for coin op play. You just need to insert the proper mech to accept the coinage from your region!

Quoted from metallik:

Now we know where LYING MAN went...
LIONMAN!!

The absolute stupidity in this thread is so compelling I cannot stop combatting it. Stop being insane and I'll go away lol

#393 5 years ago

Rare - I know full well what a mech is. Have since my first pinball purchase years ago.
Stop calling me clueless... if it doesn't come out of the box with the ability to take credits / quarters - it's not a coin op machine. Retrofitting a machine after it's on legs so it can take quarters != coinop.

It's not a coin op machine by my definition - nor by the Webster's dictionary.
I don't care how many of you fanboys say it is.... it isn't.

"coin-op·er·at·ed
adjective
1.
operated by inserting coins in a slot.
"coin-operated telephones"
noun
1.
a machine that is coin-operated.
"

#394 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

The absolute stupidity in this thread is so compelling I cannot stop combatting it. Stop being insane and I'll go away lol

The thread is only as stupid as you keep making it. The point of debate is not about coin mechs so much as it is about customer service, or lack thereof. Obviously there is a wide range of opinions on the importance of mechs, but the FACT that they will not be present, along with the FACT that Rick is doing nothing to compensate customers over this news after deposits were final is certainly worth discussing.

Considering the thousand+ posts on trim color, I'd say there is no problem here. If you don't like the discussion, drain it.

10
#395 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

Before Rick came along, a NIB MM would have been upwards of $20,000. Now we are getting them for $8,000 but damn him for not including the $20 coin mechs! Oh, and he told us about it in a shitty way so there's that too!

And before Jack came along this would have been a 6K game.
The no coin mechs is just a way to milk a little more profit from this cash cow.
It will be interesting to see what these go for on the secondary market when the dump begins.

#396 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

It's a piece that pops in!!

Not cool that you gave away the answer man...

Many of us were really enjoying the blissful ignorance of having no idea what a coin mech is.

-mof

13
#397 5 years ago

Why would anybody on earth preorder a pinball machine?! Especially from a company that hasn't established itself with many machines yet. This coin mech nonsense is happening because those who preordered left themselves voiceless. This is a business and its not doing you any favors, you are doing them favors. If there were no preorders, the business would trim up and add so much to this machine to win you over, everyone would be excited about announcements of add-ons/upgrades opposed to announcements of, "the business just made an extra 20k+ off everyone because we can" and you will sit there and take it. 1k, 5k, 8k, 20k - preorders are a joke. Anybody who runs a business plan and sees potential for more money on table will take it. Its not like there will be a shortage of MM and MMR's in 2 years. You can get one when its ready, you don't have to finance companies and put yourself in a position of waiting and wondering when when when and why why why.

#398 5 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Lol...but most likely it's about saving 20-30k in costs.

Way off.

try 90K+

That 90K doesn't even include assembly time. There are 2 coin mechs in each machine, and they actually cost close to $30 dollars each. 1500 MMr pinballs equates to $90,000 in left out parts.

#399 5 years ago

image-913.jpg
This thread , the gift that keeps on giving

#400 5 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

Rare - I know full well what a mech is. Have since my first pinball purchase years ago.
Stop calling me clueless... if it doesn't come out of the box with the ability to take credits / quarters - it's not a coin op machine. Retrofitting a machine after it's on legs so it can take quarters != coinop.
It's not a coin op machine by my definition - nor by the Webster's dictionary.
I don't care how many of you fanboys say it is.... it isn't.
"coin-op·er·at·ed
adjective
1.
operated by inserting coins in a slot.
"coin-operated telephones"
noun
1.
a machine that is coin-operated.
"

Popping in a coin mech isn't "retrofitting". Look - I know you're from Texas, which means you can never admit to being wrong…but - you're wrong.

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