(Topic ID: 98940)

PPS / MMR communication - it's NOT about the coin mechs (or is it?)


By jfh

5 years ago



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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by TigerLaw
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There are 700 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 14.
#101 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

It's childish to make that leap. He gave an answer about the coin mechs.

He gave an answer that any good PM knows was pure bull. I feel sorry for anyone that believes that answer. And then to back pedal and say "well, our contractor made the decision" - come on. Were you seriously satisfied with that answer? Trust me, there's a lot more to it. (And as I said, I don't believe it was a cost cutting move).

As for the leap, It may not be reasonable to make it. But no one would ever even think about it if Rick was willing to have a reasonable discussion rather than try and sell the idea that getting the right mechs in the right games was just so complicated that we couldn't possibly understand. Then add fuel to the fire by telling those who want coin mechs (thinking they had already paid for them) that they could buy them (again) if they really want to. Sorry, can't buy that as any sort of a reasonable answer.

You are right that I do to have to like an answer, but I should be able to think it's reasonable or, at absolute minimum, believable. What we got was an insult to our intelligence. There may be some truth in there somewhere, but there's certainly not enough detail for anyone to conclude that Rick's "answer" was nothing more than deception/deflection or simply refusal to take responsibility for a planning mistake. "Hey, we messed up" earns Rick far more respect than trying to push off the issue as "not my decision" when everyone knows the final decision on everything ultimately belongs to PPS.

Is your standard really "if Rick gives us an answer, all is fine?"

#102 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Have.
They.
Called.
Rick?

Since you seem to think this is so important, why don't you call Rick and post the answer here? No sense in having multiple people call with the same question.

#103 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

So MMR as delivered is not intended for commercial operation... Likely a legal loophole PPS is skirting???

I feel like you're onto something

#104 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

So MMR as delivered is not intended for commercial operation...

Was that ever stated or implied by PPS?

17
#105 5 years ago

Stern sends pinball machines all over the world, with the appropriate coin mechs installed. It can be done, and can't be that hard to orchestrate.

That means there has to be a reason other than "it's too hard"...

Making a pinball machine is hard. Accepting a coin? Not too much.

#106 5 years ago
Quoted from tamoore:

Stern sends pinball machines all over the world, with the appropriate coin mechs installed. It can be done, and can't be that hard to orchestrate.
That means there has to be a reason other than "it's too hard"...
Making a pinball machine is hard. Accepting a coin? Not too much.

And really all they have to do is just ship them seperately. That would not require any expensive line retooling and it would not affect production.

#107 5 years ago
Quoted from PoMC:

A little late for someone spending $8k to be asking these questions. No?

Umm, those questions were asked long before commitments were final. I think the point was that the questions weren't (reasonably) answered.

#108 5 years ago
Quoted from tamoore:

Stern sends pinball machines all over the world, with the appropriate coin mechs installed. It can be done, and can't be that hard to orchestrate.
That means there has to be a reason other than "it's too hard"...
Making a pinball machine is hard. Accepting a coin? Not too much.

Exactly. So why feed us some BS "answer" rather than just tell us the truth? It certainly can't be proprietary.

#109 5 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

Was that ever stated or implied by PPS?

Yes. Rather directly implied i would say... No coin mechs means it can't take money which means it is not a commercial machine. Anyone paying any attention to how rick operates knows he has at least 3 levels of BS you need to read through to even begin to find the truth.

#110 5 years ago

Man Pinside is a fucking mess on Friday nights...the way the lord intended!

-2
#111 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

Nobody is perfect. No company is perfect. No new product release is perfect. It's only $20.

Lemming.

-1
#112 5 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Man Pinside is a fucking mess on Fridays...the way the lord intended!

Then don't open the thread.

#113 5 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Then don't open the thread.

Which thread? I'm pretty sure I just made a blanket statement....and then said I liked it.

#114 5 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Which thread? I'm pretty sure I just made a blanket statement....and then said I liked it.

Not allowed to like stuff. Forum rules.

11
#115 5 years ago

is there a Hitler coin mechs video yet?

#116 5 years ago
Quoted from herbertbsharp:

is there a Hitler coin mechs video yet?

Yes! I made it about an hour ago. It's still processing. I'll post it when it's ready.

#117 5 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

if Rick was willing to have a reasonable discussion

If you are mad at rick then please pick up the phone and be mad at rick on the phone vs take up everyone's time and energy on a public forum ... my cell is 408-891-7878 (hasn't changed). I am always happy to be yelled at!
thanks,
rick@planetarypinball.com

#118 5 years ago

If rookie Jack included coin mechs on his first machine, it can't be that hard, correct?

#119 5 years ago
Quoted from pinstor12:

If rookie Jack included coin mechs on his first machine, it can't be that hard, correct?

True dat! And how hard could it be to release a game that isn't "final" and "needs updates!"

#120 5 years ago
Quoted from tamoore:

Stern sends pinball machines all over the world, with the appropriate coin mechs installed.

Just out of interest, no new Sterns have coin mechs when they arrive in New Zealand.

I can't speak for other countries. Maybe some Aussies and Pommies can chime in.

rd.

#121 5 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Just out of interest, no new Sterns have coin mechs when they arrive in New Zealand.
I can't speak for other countries. Maybe some Aussies and Pommies can chime in.
rd.

I'm talking about first-world countries....
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#122 5 years ago

rayspbxcnge.jpg

Should have purchased your MMR from Ray

-3
#123 5 years ago
Quoted from moto_cat:

If you are mad at rick then please pick up the phone and be mad at rick on the phone vs take up everyone's time and energy on a public forum ... my cell is 408-891-7878 (hasn't changed). I am always happy to be yelled at!
thanks,
rick@planetarypinball.com

I'm not mad at you, just disappointed. And I certainly wouldn't disrespect you by yelling. But me talking to you is selfish, since everyone would have to rely on my interpretation of the conversation rather than having the ability to see direct answers from you.

So, let's start with a couple of questions I would ask if we spoke on the phone:

1) in light of the reaction to your original announcement, if you were to announce "no coin mechs" today, would you do it any differently? If so, how?

2) if you believe the number of people upset/impacted by the decision not to ship mechs is that small, why not just send those people the proper mechs at no additional charge? Presumably the cost involved would still be less than the amount built into the game price if your numbers/estimates are correct.

3). I don't believe the decision to not ship mechs was made primarily as a cost cutting move (as in saving on parts, not necessarily time on the line). True?

4) you indicated thar CG made the decision not to ship mechs. I found that very hard to believe, as it is your game and presumably any final decision rests with you and not one of your contractors. Can you explain how the decision not to ship mechs could belong to anyone other than PPS?

5) Presumably you believed that including the proper mechs would increase the total time/length of the manufacturing run. Approximately how many weeks? Why is this/would this have been more of an issue for PPS than it is for Stern when they assemble their games?

6) is not shipping coin mechs a back-door way of saying that MMR is not and should not be considered a commercial machine? Does PPS consider or classify MMR as a commercial machine? If not, why not?

If you would prefer to address these in a PM or email, I'm ok with that, as long as I understand what I could and could not share. I used to have some pretty tough security clearances, so I know how to handle sensitive/confidential/proprietary information and am pretty good at summarizing.

Thanks. Look forward to hearing from you.

#124 5 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Just out of interest, no new Sterns have coin mechs when they arrive in New Zealand.
I can't speak for other countries. Maybe some Aussies and Pommies can chime in.
rd.

Word on the street here is Aussies prepay for games and don't even get the games let alone coin mechs.
:/

#125 5 years ago
Quoted from moto_cat:

If you are mad at rick then please pick up the phone and be mad at rick on the phone vs take up everyone's time and energy on a public forum ... my cell is 408-891-7878 (hasn't changed). I am always happy to be yelled at!
thanks,
rick@planetarypinball.com

Motocat = rick/pps? What the heck is going on?

#126 5 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

I'm not mad at you, just disappointed. And I certainly wouldn't disrespect you by yelling. But me talking to you is selfish, since everyone would have to rely on my interpretation of the conversation rather than having the ability to see direct answers from you.

Pretty sure you were trolled. Rick has a different screen name: PPS.
If motocat is Rick; then he needs to have one of his account blocked per forum rules.

#127 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Motocat = rick/pps? What the heck is going on?

Two accounts=auto ban.... :-/

#128 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Motocat = rick/pps? What the heck is going on?

Oops - didn't notice that.

Motocat - are you Rick or someone authorized to speak for PPS?

#129 5 years ago

OK, guess I was punked. But since I wrote the response for Rick, I sent it to him and asked for a reply by email or post here.

#130 5 years ago
Quoted from tamoore:

Two accounts=auto ban.... :-/

No sarcasm needed. That is seriously messed up and should result in a permaban for both accounts. That is what has happened with other dual accounts.

#131 5 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Just out of interest, no new Sterns have coin mechs when they arrive in New Zealand.
I can't speak for other countries. Maybe some Aussies and Pommies can chime in.
rd.

Australian delivered Sterns dont come with coin mechs either but do have the wiring to use mechanical or electronic mechs

#132 5 years ago

I found it hardly believable stern has problems to build pins with different coin doors.

Ac dc had a pro. And a few les. And they went all around the world. Dont understand why it cant be done now.

But.... To be fair... Its a very minor thing. Not fun if you want a coin door, but a very tiny setback in an 8k pin. And when you feel cheated or just not comfortable. Then dont do business with them. No big deal if you dont, or still do. Just do what ever you feel best with.

All the drama aint necessary.

#133 5 years ago

This is the most obnoxious thread I've seen on pinside. Give it a rest.

#134 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Motocat = rick/pps? What the heck is going on?

It would appear Motocat copied and pasted part of one of Rick's previous posts here. On where to call. I'm pretty sure he wasn't pretending to be Rick or vice versa.

LTG : )™

#135 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

That is seriously messed up and should result in a permaban for both accounts.

EDIT: LTG beat me to it

#136 5 years ago

+1 Lloyd. That's how I read it too. Everyone needs to lighten up.

#137 5 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

It would appear Motocat copied and pasted part of one of Rick's previous posts here. On where to call. I'm pretty sure he wasn't pretending to be Rick or vice versa.
LTG : )™

Yea.. This is pretty clear...

#138 5 years ago

Ok

#139 5 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

So, let's start with a couple of questions I would ask if we spoke on the phone:

1) in light of the reaction to your original announcement, if you were to announce "no coin mechs" today, would you do it any differently? If so, how?

2) if you believe the number of people upset/impacted by the decision not to ship mechs is that small, why not just send those people the proper mechs at no additional charge? Presumably the cost involved would still be less than the amount built into the game price if your numbers/estimates are correct.

3). I don't believe the decision to not ship mechs was made primarily as a cost cutting move (as in saving on parts, not necessarily time on the line). True?

4) you indicated thar CG made the decision not to ship mechs. I found that very hard to believe, as it is your game and presumably any final decision rests with you and not one of your contractors. Can you explain how the decision not to ship mechs could belong to anyone other than PPS?

5) Presumably you believed that including the proper mechs would increase the total time/length of the manufacturing run. Approximately how many weeks? Why is this/would this have been more of an issue for PPS than it is for Stern when they assemble their games?

6) is not shipping coin mechs a back-door way of saying that MMR is not and should not be considered a commercial machine? Does PPS consider or classify MMR as a commercial machine? If not, why not?

If you would prefer to address these in a PM or email, I'm ok with that, as long as I understand what I could and could not share. I used to have some pretty tough security clearances, so I know how to handle sensitive/confidential/proprietary information and am pretty good at summarizing.

Thanks. Look forward to hearing from you.

I thought you said it wasn't about coin mechs ?

#140 5 years ago
Quoted from herbertbsharp:

I thought you said it wasn't about coin mechs ?

And it isn't. It's about whether we get an opportunity to understand the real reason behind the decision/announcement/responses and if Rick understands the related concerns.

But answers to these questions also benefit those that do think this is about the mechs, so we can kill two birds with one stone. .

If I were to speak with Rick by phone, I would ask some other tougher questions, but wouldn't make those or the answers public without his consent, because there are some where I think a non-answer could be reasonable and/or appropriate without being seen as deceptive or evasive.

#141 5 years ago

coinmechs.JPG

#142 5 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

Since you seem to think this is so important, why don't you call Rick and post the answer here? No sense in having multiple people call with the same question.

Why should I call Rick!? I don't care about the coin mechs & I have no reason to bother him about it. If you bought the game and are bothered by it...YOU call him!

-1
#143 5 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

6) is not shipping coin mechs a back-door way of saying that MMR is not and should not be considered a commercial machine? Does PPS consider or classify MMR as a commercial machine? If not, why not?

I'm curious about this too. Is this a way to skirt UL testing or other commercial regulation? Pretty serious questions pop up when the explanations aren't up to snuff. If somebody wants to operate these commercially are they going to get blindsided when they try to have them insured for liability?

http://site.ul.com/global/eng/pages/corporate/contactus/faq/general/background/

Very interesting...

#144 5 years ago
Quoted from Firebaall:

I'm curious about this too. Is this a way to skirt UL testing or other commercial regulation? Pretty serious questions pop up when the explanations aren't up to snuff. If somebody wants to operate these commercially are they going to get blindsided when they try to have them insured for liability?

He's already spoken about UL testing and how important it is. These conspiracy theories are almost bordering on libel.

#145 5 years ago

I just hope Rick doesn't waste his time appearing on this thread....

groucho.gif
#146 5 years ago
Quoted from Firebaall:

I'm curious about this too. Is this a way to skirt UL testing or other commercial regulation? Pretty serious questions pop up when the explanations aren't up to snuff. If somebody wants to operate these commercially are they going to get blindsided when they try to have them insured for liability?
http://site.ul.com/global/eng/pages/corporate/contactus/faq/general/background/
Very interesting...

Man, .....I never have posted in these kind of threads before, but good grief!!! Just maybe, the deposit cutoff was due to timeline to insure commitment, being they are about to release them. Reading a decent share of both of these threads ( I don't know why...bored, I guess) I see NO connection to the deposit lock and mystery coin mech.

Coincidences do happen ( timeline wise), and for whatever reason, this is how he is selling them. Sounds a lot more up front than just shipping machines without them and people bitching. But talking about UL ( CE) ratings and other stuff is truly wild speculation, at best. I don't know Rick, but he seems like he's been WAY upfront and accommodating to this thread and it's posters.

If you don't trust the Company....bail....period.......and for the record, I was going to buy one through a distributor ( had my #), but spent my pin money on a TRONLE, so I couldn't afford it.

Let it go, get your machine ( or not) and move on......ridiculous........

I apologize for ranting on a completely stupid thread, but can't sleep, and couldn't take the bs anymore....I'm out....mark

#147 5 years ago

Some of you guys are seriously going off the deep end. The level of indignation over a $20 part was already absurd, but the conspiracy theories are a whole new level. I have never seen this much attention paid to a non-issue from a bunch of people who aren't even affected by it. Someone must be paying you guys to keep posting about this because I can't think of any other sane reason for this nonsense.

#148 5 years ago

This thread makes my brain hurt.

#149 5 years ago

I'm in on the preorder. I was very upset with the coin mech announcement a few hours after the deposit locked, but I can't agree with the majority of this thread. If I was honestly this upset I'd simple cancel or forfeit the deposit. I'm voting with my money. If I'm not happy with the end result I won't buy another machine from PPS. Pretty simple really.

#150 5 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

Oops - didn't notice that.
Motocat - are you Rick or someone authorized to speak for PPS?

No I'm not Rick , I just copied & pasted from one of his posts.

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