Almost.

Which makes it fairly easy to stay on schedule.

There you go again - making an accusation without any proof.

If the game were in FACT to be delayed till next year, I'd demand a refund. End of story.

Post your facts if you have them.

Did the no refund point already pass?

For the 50th time: Most pinball business let the "rules" slide to make customers happy. I'm not going to get whipped up into a frenzy from unsubstantiated Pinside rumormongering...but for the sake of argument, if the game were to slip into next year - I think PPS/distributors would work with people on an individual basis if they wanted a full refund.

You already have.

Really? You're putting the frenzy on me? Nice. I'm not the one freaking out about coin-mechs. Remember what this thread is about - and remember I'm in the "I don't care" category.

That one post full of your quotes would seem to indicate otherwise. You are quite obsessed with this thread. Hell, you already ragequit at least once, and yet here you are

I care about calling out ignorance & lies.

I don't care about coin mechs.

How is this not clear?

Yeah lol, forgot about that post actually.

I'm not trying to be crude or rude here, but you constantly say things like this but you have stayed with this thread and pestered the hell out of everyone trying to 'talk' on here. It is obvious you don't think coin mechs are necessary. OK. I get it. For YOU that is! There are only about 5 people on this thread who jump in with negative and insulting garbage, while the rest of us have conversation about what we deem are problems.

For the life of me, I do not know why you even have desire to keep up your stabs at everyone. You are a very unpleasant human being, to put it mildly. Why don't you and a couple of the friends of your ilk just go off to some other thread and annoy the hell out of THOSE guys?!

I can only draw one conclusion. You are bouncing in and out of here purely for the joy of amusing yourself and hoping you can rile others who are engaged in discourse about a problem WE see! It is your 'game' of one-up-manship'. Hate filled challenges. YOU don't see the lack of coin mechs as a problem. You have nothing else to prove or say. We know your stance. So, why don't you just go away and let us all engage in decent 'talk' here and go play with your bucket of coin mechs that you don't need?!

Another one bites the dust on my ignore list!

You say you'e "Done and finished" with posting in this thread - several times. Let it go. Everyone has given their opinion. No one is going to change the opinion of another person on this matter.

I think the issue is not with people's opinions but with people stating things as fact that can't be backed up. I for one don't care enough to set people straight, but I certainly understand why Greg keeps popping in when he sees something that is incorrect, or stated as fact, without any verifiable details.

You keep telling yourself that. Keep giving all the thumbs down. You might just break the record for most given in a thread. Serenity now.

Well this thread has devolved even further into the quagmire than than I thought possible.

That's the real problem with pinside and any forums for that matter. People post bs as facts. It really use to bother me but fighting it is a futile battle. Greg isn't fighting the coin mech issue, he's pointing out bs that people make up. Why they make that crap up is beyond me. Like Greg said, deal with it or ask for a refund. Rick said he won't talk about it anymore so bitching about it is probably futile. Now, some of the posts are pretty funny

He's still claiming IM classic doesn't have a coin slot (based on a obviously photoshopped flier pic), which is incorrect. He also claimed BDK classic didn't come with a coin slot. When I pointed out his mistakes, he tried to cover it by saying that because the only available configuration was 5 games per coin, it isn't a coin op machine. So I'm not sure he's the best person to be deciding what's fact or fiction. When you get your facts from fliers, you're not bringing a lot to the table.

Thumbs down in less than 30 seconds. lol

OK, here's an Iron Man Classic for sale on Pinside. Actual Picture. No coin slot.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-huo-iron-man-classic

Keep spreading lies.

I've seen one in person. Have you?

IM aside, you vaguely admitted you were wrong about BDK classic. I guess that makes you a liar too. Keep spreading those lies... lol

Has anyone seen that Baby's Second Summer color trim they are passing off as gold?
Discuss.

Yes, which is the way Bally, the real Bally, Williams, Gottlieb and Chicago Coin did it for about sixty years and each making hundreds of thousands of machines.

This Iron Man Classic debate is beyond stupid, everyone knows it came without a real coin door. If you think otherwise then prove it. The burden is on you, because not only does the official flyer show it, look at Pinball News, a pretty reliable source over "I played one once and this is what I remember":

http://www.pinballnews.com/news/ironmanlite.html

While there continues to be a door on the front, it can no longer be called a 'coin door' as it doesn't include a coin mechanism.

Can we just move on?

Everybody? Have you seen one?

batman.jpg

http://ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=5583&picno=45753

I have no horse in MMR race, so I can only observe and make a few suggestions at a distance.

Can you think of some good reasons to NOT start an argument with someone?

I can think of two: (surely there are more than two good reasons)

I try to ask:
1. Is this person open to seeing other points of view? If not -- why am I investing time on the argument?

2. Am I sure we are both about to argue about the same thing ?

I think a few people in this thread, are past the point of being open-minded to having a discussion to help brainstorm some ideas to remedy the customer expectation/trust situation that has unfolded.

Also, I would assert that a few of you aren't even arguing about the same damn thing...

1. Rare is arguing: "What is the DESIGN/MODEL?"
Answer: Coin Op.
2. Others are arguing: “Is PPS delivering on expectations set as MMR being a coin-op machine?"
Answer: "PPS shouldn't declare that they are about to deliver a 'coin-op-working-right-now' machine"

Both arguments are correct. Rare is right, the rest of you are right. The bickering will never end at this rate, if y'all focus on separate arguments.

I hope y’all get the argument(s) on the same page, and keep looking for bright solutions.

-mof

From more than 4 days ago. Hahaha.

Sorry to hear about your hate of pinball.

Indeed!

You do realize that's not Iron Man right?

Either just admit you're wrong and drop it or put up some proof (and not some other game), this is silly now. I don't even care that you made a mistake, this thread just has enough misinformation without adding to it. Iron Man Classic, sold for home use only, no coin slot in door, end of story.

Screenshot_2014-08-10-11-49-20.png

I'm convinced it's photoshopped. One it's from Pinball News, not Stern's site (I did a filtered by site image search). Two, the tone of gray on that door does not match the rest of the powder coat on the machine and looks too homogenous vs the textured black around it. Three, if you look very carefully below the lock the gray color spreads out too far to the right versus the gray above the lock. So yeah, photoshopped. I'm disappointed in PBN to be honest.

Capture.JPG

This is getting ridiculous. If anyone is truly convinced Iron Man Classic had an actual coin door, please post proof. Here is a Pinside thread discussing it, no objections:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ironman-classic

Here is someone here selling one, pretty sure he didn't photoshop out the coin slots before putting it up for sale.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-huo-iron-man-classic

40478.jpg

Post some evidence, or just admit you were mistaken and move on.

This thread is great. Iron man classic is now the Zapruder film of pinball machines.

Oh snap, I'm lost. Help me out here...
How does the outcome of the Ironman argument make a difference to the original concern of the thread?
-mof

Rational thought does not exist in this Dojo.

I would agree it is photoshopped but that doesn't mean it's not representative of the actual product. Because the actual product has no coin door.

Let's forget the facts for a minute. That's not the real problem here. The real problem is you two guys acting like god's gift to pinball here. Both of you offer very little to the pinball community, but act like we all should bow down to you superior knowledge whenever you make a post. From reading your posts here, I know more about what you guys don't like about the hobby than what you do like. You don't play in tournaments, don't like EM's, hate photoshopped art, rarely play on location, rarely attend shows, offer virtually no technical or gameplay help here and don't participate in leagues. Both of you clearly post too much here. You called yourself a post whore here recently and said you shouldn't post so much. You've made almost 8000 posts in less than two years here. For your kid's sake, I hope most of those posts were made on company time.

Near as I can tell, your only contributions to the hobby are occasionally buying a game and your thousands of posts here, which is a net negative IMO. What gives either of you the right to act like complete asses here? Please tell us all the ways you contribute to the hobby, because a lot of us aren't seeing it.

Now I'm more confused. Are you saying two guys here are living an identical life? That's truly amazing detective work. How did you come to that conclusion?
-mof

Gentlemen. Isn't it time to call it a day.

This has hit a no win and will only hurt pinball.

So in other words, after all your bluster about Iron Man Classic having a coin door, you're wrong, and rather than admit it you're lashing out at me. And saying just weird things that have no basis in reality too. I feel pretty good about what I've contributed to Pinside actually. You judging it doesn't mean much to me though, you just seem weird and bitter and stalkerish, that time you tried to quote all my posts about thanking people for throwing events still creeps me out.

You don't play in tournaments

Wrong. Play in tournaments pretty regularly, even have a (pathetic) IFPA point total from the few that were sanctioned by them. Look it up, I post under my real name, it's not hard. I'm not an ace player, happy to admit I'm just average, so I don't play at a more hardcore level, don't have the confidence yet.

don't like EM's

I'm learning to appreciate them more, had a good time playing Jungle Queen (the Win-A-Pin prize this year that Karl is running) at a league tournament recently. But it's true, my love is more for solid state. Doesn't have to be modern (if I had more space I'd love some 80s games, maybe a Scorpion), I just enjoy the faster game with little deeper rules. I just like pinball though really. Hardly see how that matters, am I bad person for not being super into EMs?

hate photoshopped art

Photoshop is just a tool. I use it myself every day. I don't care for lazy PR photo art. I feel qualified by my degree and profession to comment on it, but anyone can have an opinion without going to art school and making a living as a designer about what they like or don't. That's what makes forums great. I enjoy hearing other people's thoughts.

rarely play on location

Unfortunately I don't live in an area with a lot of location play. That's changing a little, 82 is awesome (and Molly is a friend and I'm so happy she's seeing success with all the work she's put in, she shared some numbers with me the other day that will remain private but it delighted me to hear them) and Ron and Robert are doing great things with Pinball Land too. Those places are a 30 minute drive for me though, not casually accessible. Luckily I get to play with a ton of people all the time, hosting at my house or going to other people's, so the social aspect of pinball is alive and well (and thriving) in SoCal.

rarely attend shows

Shout out to all the people I've been able to hang out with at shows like PAGG and Expo, hope to make Expo again this year, met some great folks last year! Shhhh, don't tell phishrace, it will spoil his fun.

offer virtually no technical or gameplay help here

I don't pretend to be a technical guru, but when it's in my experience I certainly do. Mostly in the club threads for games I own that I know well enough to feel like I'm saying something useful. Funny, I was just trying to post gameply advice for the new Metallica rules yesterday. What a jerk I am!

and don't participate in leagues

Wow, you're just whiffing left and right here. Dude, you don't know me. You've never met me, and I never want to meet you, because you creep me out with the way you try and stalk my life online. If you did know me you'd know that I actually do belong to a league of over 60 people. OC Pinball League in the house! We meet like clockwork, great bunch of guys, and have a running tournament throughout the season we play in every meet. I'm in the middle of the pack, probably close to the back though, I could look up my score if I wanted to, we keep all the stats online.

Both of you clearly post too much here.

Thanks mom.

Near as I can tell, your only contributions to the hobby are occasionally buying a game and your thousands of posts here, which is a net negative IMO. What gives either of you the right to act like complete asses here? Please tell us all the ways you contribute to the hobby, because a lot of us aren't seeing it.

"A lot of us"? Hey, the phishrace posse is here too? Who exactly are you speaking for besides yourself?

First of all, I certainly don't have to justify myself to you, who the hell are you? Some cranky pinball stalker?

Secondly, I have a ton of wonderful friends that I've made through the hobby, many here on Pinside, and love to play the game (and talk the game) with them. And for me that's more than enough!

Beyond that I'm getting ready to release my third translite project, which I do because I love having an outlet for personal art that relates to my hobby, but is also fulfilling because of all the great positive feedback I get from the community about it. It makes people happy, and that in turn makes me happy. Any money I make off it I channel back into the hobby, so for me it's pretty win-win. I guess if that's not enough for you then you can continue to be cranky at me, I'll sleep soundly.

Iron Man Classic still doesn't have a coin door.

The bottom line is — running a small business is about setting customer expectations and meeting them, and it's about maintaining trust with your customer base. When you fail to meet expectations, how you respond to the situation defines you as a businessman. It's not about being perfect. When expectations aren't met, if communication and action are delayed or missing, trust is appropriately brought into question.

We've observed vendors on Pinside (including PPS) deal with bumps in the road and overcome them with prompt communication and action. From what I've observed, many people were hoping for a high level of communication and responsibility regarding this issue to match the faith they demonstrated to PPS in a 3-hour sellout of the product offered. The customer base demonstrated a truly remarkable level of faith and trust up front in being delivered an excellent product. I presume PPS earned that trust with their previous track record with the customer base. I imagine that anything less than an excellent performance on the delivery side will meet quick scrutiny.

-mof

Where is BangerJay when you need him?

Thread locked per request of OP.