Just starting on my double barrel and wanted to see if she’d actually power up to see what mechanical issues I may have once I get the other things worked out.

So - this is a machine I’m taking over from someone who had previously done some work on. How much I do not know. Even found some aligator clips still in her

Anyhow the issue is I plug her in and I get nuttin. No sounds lights noises zilch.

It does look like someone has replaced the power cable and it appears to be installed correctly. There is also a small switch underneath.

I’ve attached photos of what I’ve got here. A newbie so just learning on the DVM

Any and all help on this is appreciated !

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Nothing. Very quiet.

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Looks like he replaced all fuses when he ran the new power cable?

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Again I’m a newbie but I don’t know if mine is wired that way. I don’t have the receptacle. And the power looks like the cord splits and one (ground) goes to a lug on the bottom board and the other (hot?) goes to the switch. From the switch the power lead then goes to the trsnformer and the other lead I take it goes back also to a ground ?

I’m not sure the transformer is working ?

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Ok sorry the hot is going to the swtich then once made it then goes to the transformer.

Are the certain readings I should be seeing on any/ all of the tabs on the transformer? I saw another post similar from Vid but it mentions colors of wires that I dont have??

Ok. In order blue - correct. Red - don’t know what that is? I have a sister cabinet and that one does not have that coil? Using a wood piece I move the green relay and now get some lights. Wow! Thanks!

Head lights and playfield lights all on. Yeah! I can activate the other relays. Get some scoring thru the relays. But no game start yet

It looks like some one had connected this thru the lock relay? I just took off the black electrical tape and it looks like the wire originally went to the coil But this “thing “ looks old. Like it was there originally somewhere in the lineup? I’m going to take it out of the loop for now and see?

Still getting some thing ..

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It is blowing the “low line” fuse.

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Yes. I have them in both. Oops. Ok I removed the lower one and now the upper one isn’t blowing Baby steps! Thank you! I can activate the start relay which in turn activates the large coil one the bank of relays

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Just no start game. No Flippers bumpers etc. but lights are on the PF and head I was getting some scoring thru the 30 point relay but it is just activating the 10 point relay in the cab now. No counter turning or chime now

Once back at the house this evening I’ll start checking per the link “HowardR”. After going thru the things Rolf had told me, then looking at the machine, then back to your messages, it’s starting to make more sense (at least I’m getting it. It just took time . Thanks and appreciate the patience.

Well I def got lost in the translation. Lol. But. When I manually lift the tab on the start trip relay I can push the start button and the coin relay activates and then motor turns. Nothing after that.

When I manually activate the start relay it seems to reset the bank of relays but the start trip stays down with the rest

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Hey! When I manually hold up the game over Relay I get the playfield to work. Flippers kickers etc.

So how do I get this bank in the right order?

I’m Traveling today but thinking - i took out the upper fuse when it was blowing. I wonder if I change that and remove the upper and place it in the lower- if this will have any effect?

Don’t really know if the bank of relays is working correctly or if there is something that’s supposed to keep it in the up mode so all works?

I have it in the “low line” and possibly it should be in the “normal line” ?

I guess since things work and now not blowing fuses, it may not make a difference?

Just wondering with all the individual relays working , how do I get them all to sing in unison?

Moved the fuse to the lower holder, no changes, all work the same as the upper fuse. So no difference there.

It was a joy just to see the flippers, pop bumpers and other playfield switches to work, so there is some progress here.

I may try to re-wire that old coil to see if that plays any part of the issue, but as it's not even installed on the sister cabinet, it may not matter. (I'll try clipping each lead to the first coil in line to check for impacts?) It was wired in front of the first coil.

What should the status be on this bank of relays..all up, all down? The large coil fires and raises them (when I activate the start relay) but not sure it's doing what it's supposed to do (as in keeping them up) or could one/some of the relays be bad and just not staying up or connected?

Any ideas or suggestions would be "greatly" appreciated, as my knowledge is minimal, but love to learn!

“Aligator Clipped” in that old coil. But no difference. So disconnected again.

Put the fuse back in the upper holder.

Questions:
Should the lock relay activate as soon as the machine is powered on like my others? (If so, what can I check to see why it isn’t?)

With the other relays working when I physically activate them, what could i check on to see why they’re not working in proper sequence (as in starting up correctly)

With everything almost working , I feel like I’m very close here to getting her up and running. (Hopefully).

Thanks YOPP, HowardR, and Rolf! Let's me know I'm not alone in this battle..lol If I could only buy you all a beer! (Come to Cleveland!)

1) I'll go back the "normal" fuse holder as I'm just plugged into a home receptacle and should be seeing 110 (I can check to verify)

2) When I switch on the power (small switch on bottom) it's still dead - even after hitting the start button the coin door. Only way to get the Lock Relay on (and lights) is to manually close it.

3) When I manually lift the tab on the Start Trip Relay I can push the start button and the coin relay activates and then motor turns. Nothing after that, but this makes me thing it's wired correctly and that works... (The Start Trip Relay drops as soon as I release it)

4) When I manually lift the tab on the Game Over Relay - to get the playfield working, if I release it, it drops.... I will check this with the power off this evening. (So sounds like that works correctly, I'm just physically making it open to allow play)

5) The Lock Relay does stay activated / pulled, until I turn off the power

I'll look over Posts #27 & 29 when I get home and report back. (Possibly one of these is stuck in the wrong position?)

I now I've said this a thousand times, but thank you all really. At least I have steps to take and things to look for. Without this help, I'm a blind squirrel looking for a lost nut!

OK, I hope all/some of this makes sense....

I tried to go thru the diagram - and closing in #1, that's just me hitting the start/replay button -so that works. What is #2? (Where?)

What/where ever it is, # 3 (Lock Relay) - does not close on it's own or automatically (I have to manually close it to get power on). I did notice I can also close the Coin Relay and I get power on as well.

On my earlier posts, I mention lifting up the relays (on the large bank of relays on the side) - in actuality, when I physically activate the "Start Relay", the large coil lifts all of these and they stay lifted / open. I can actually lift them individually "higher", such as the Game Over relay to get the playfield to work. I can also stick something under each one to have them drop / close. (When I drop the Game Over relay to the full closed position, it just makes the motor run continuous.)

When I manually lift (higher) the tab on the Start Trip Relay I can push the start button and the coin relay activates and then motor turns. Nothing after that, but this makes me thing it's wired correctly and that works... (The Start Trip Relay drops back to the open position as soon as I release it)

With or without power on / connected - these all stay up (open) as the large coil set them. (Just weird I can lift them a bit higher and get something to work.

Back to the diagram - again not knowing what/where #2 is, it does not close the Lock Relay or the Start Trip Relay.

The Coin Relay (#5) does stay open.

Where / what is # 6? Kickoff Switch?

#'s 7-8 & 9 - looks like the Lock Relay opens - but this doesn't happen, unless I force it to open

Does any of this make sense? Would a video help in any way?

Good comments from both, and I am a newbie - as in I've been adjusting the contacts by hand (small pliers, tweezers, etc) and carefully bending them, which has been working, but as HowardR says, I may be making things worse overall (on my other machines) This one I haven't really done much of either...so I will at least start cleaning and see where I can get. This thing has set for years, so that really could be the overall issue. I'll keep posting updates...I think it helps me mentally

Some good news. Cleaning of course never hurts. Worked mainly on the large bank.

Still don’t know what #2 or 6 is or where. But it may be part of the problem.

I can turn the power on thru the toggle switch. Still dead until I activate say the 25cent relay. Then I’m getting all lights and now the small moving target on the playfield (lost the flippers and pops and scoring but I’ll get back on that soon)

But at least I can then activate the start relay it raises all bank relays and it shows going to ball one on the head. I activate the outhole switch and it goes to ball 2 then again all the way thru 5 then once more and the game over relay drops (as it should ). To get this I had to “close” the top two switches on the game over relay. They open when it drops now . But when closed I get the moving target and ball / outhole working. (They were always open)

Weird thing is I have to manually activate / drop the start trip relay before the game over relay will re-set.

So back to the #2 and #6 switches. Could this be both the issue to get from the replay switch to the lock relay (#2) to get it started - and the issue to actually start a game (#6)??

After that I just need to get the flippers and pops / switches and scoring back. These worked yesterday when I’d lift the game over relay but not now.

Baby steps !! But seeing some progress as it’s going Thru the 5 ball seq and outhole mechanism working.

Aha! Weekend homework, love it! Thanks Rolf! This longer version made it much easier to understand (well, as much as I can anyhow). A couple of quick comments from the office before I head home to work on her again :

My Toggle Switch - the cable "G" (which I think is on the "power side") just goes to & from the transformer (no fuse in line, or other wires connected) See post # 1 for photos

I will look for the "J" and "L" - perhaps if you see those in one of my earlier photos, please identify them for me?

Understand #2 now, and yes it closes when I have credits shown (which while trouble shooting, sometimes things worked and then didn't, then I noticed I didn't have credits! lol Same as activating the ball drop/outhole - I needed to activate that to make it step thru the process)

When you say "The Lock-Relay is not (yet) pulling, the switch on the relay (green 3) is closed" - how is it not pulling in, if the switch is closed?

When you say "I press the Replay-Button and the Coin-Relay (green 4) must fire" - mine isn't listening to the "must" part as it does NOT fire (I can manually activate the Coin Relay and it'll start, so if I can get past that part?)

Now that you reminded me, the Kick-off switch - I see that. For some reason, I thought this was "open" and if you wanted the game over or to turn it off, you just tap that on the nail/rod at the bottom and it "closed" the switch, like a tilt switch? So I'll look at that as soon as I get home.

To answer some of the questions - when I activate the Coin Relay, I do see lights on, but it does not stay "in", but the Lock Relay pulls in, and stays in

ROLF - your comments on SAFETY should be applauded! Especially for Newbies, but old farts too! I'm in the Industrial Construction market, so I really appreciate and listen to those things!

Found #2 and it’s closed And understand with the rotation when it reaches zero the switch opens.

Photo ref - bottom switch -correct?

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Such a difference. Sitting here with those instructions. And the machine In front of me.

Found another blade bent wrong (I think from just being stored for so long with Some of the relays engaged?).

But can now start the power sequence with the replay button! It was the two top blades on the game over relay not closed when the relay is in the open position.

So now have gone thru and once I get a game started (with flippers pops and kickers back!) i can run it thru 5 balls and the game over relay drops.

So making great strides !

It won’t start another game unless I physically close the bottom two blades on the start trip relay. (Like something should cause that relay to close when either a game over or a new game start of some sort?

Could it be another one of the blades on that relay is open/Closed when it shouldn’t be? If I close those two bottom ones while it’s in the up position the motor runs continuous so again thinking something should trip this start trip relay?

Almost there !

Went through the entire playfield cleaning and checking switches. Everything seems to work. The small roll over targets are quite touchy. I adjusted while the PF was lifted up on the brace but when I’d set it down one would go off almost continuous , so had to readjust.

Not getting any scoring or chimes (it does chime when the large relay bank resets). So not sure here??

Besides it not directly starting this is amazing how far it’s came already.

90% of the rubbers are gone so i May clean off the playfield a bit and put those on. It’s getting there !

Check on that as far as priorities.

Really just started on this one and wanted to see what works. Then just getting power thru all the switches and relays to get it to an actual game mode - could not have done it without the help I’ve received here. Amazing peeps !

But your right my main focus needs to stay on getting the start trip relay in order

Per Rolf’s info item #3 - the only way I can get a game going is if I touch the left lower blade then the right lower blade (with slight delay between them, why?) to their cooresponding switch blades to momentarily close them. This is while the relay is in the up position and the 3 sets of switches on top are closed

If i lower the relay -it will not start In this mode. it fully closes the bottom 2 switches . In that lowered mode the upper 3 switches open. (The upper right - has to be closed for the replay button to work). If I make the upper norm closed in the lower position it will also stay closed in the upper as well. (Just commenting ).

So If in lower mode as described making the upper right nc (touching ) it will start but the motor runs continuous. I have the lift the relay tab up to stop it

I then only need to momentarily touch the right blade only (??). Trying all diff angles to see if one of these switches is set wrong. (Or perhaps another relay not feeding this one correctly )

Once I get a game started tho it’s game on! (For a 1961 model!)

Sorry when I started at the #3 above - that was with power on thru the replay button. It gets me there, but can’t start a game - then my process as listed. (Wanted to clarify there is progress !). Lol

Oh thanks Rolf!

Ok- with power already on and last game played (as example). I hit the replay button and the motor turns each time but it does not go to start up with a ball 1

To get that I have to close the bottom two blades on the start trip relay.
That resets the hole bank and I’m ready to go.

Just can’t get past this reset issue

The coin relay does pull when I push the replay button.

The 2nd coin relay goes off the first time I hit the replay button. If that helps

Hey at least you all got me playing a game which is farther than I thought I’d get just asking to get the power on to the thing.

Right now I can push the replay button and it turns on. All I have to do is momentarily close those two bottom switches on the Start Trip Relay and I can play a full 5 ball game. All lights chimes and scoring is also back after some cleaning

I do notice when I close the left one the Reset Relay activates then when i close the right side the game then starts

Still having issues resetting the score reels to zero but that may come along once I figure out how to restart the game. Some photos of what you’ve all been helping here with. Before and after!

I do have a Backglass on its way. (About an 8 out of 10 not bad for an original which is what I was looking for. This is one is about a 1. Lol)

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Rolf I think there are 5 total. 2 on the bottom and 3 on top. Here is a front view (2nd from the left). The third one on top is hidden by the plastic thingy which is where the 2 on top on the left side are a double

Here’s a better shot from the top.

Yes. The Reset relay pulls in when I touch the left side switch on the bottom. Then when I touch the right side the Start relay activates and that also releases the Reset Relay. Which starts the next game.

Are the AA BB on top or are these the bottoms ones?

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Right now i have the 3 top ones closed when the relay is up. (2 bottoms are open). Then when I physically make the relay drop all of those reverse

Is there something that’s supposed to make this relay drop?

But when I make it drop and the two bottom switches are closed. The motor runs continuous. I have to raise it to stop. Then I still have to touch these two switches to get a game started. Weird.

Rolf - I apologize for the delay, I had to travel for work (kids want to eat!) lol but I'm finally back and hope to get back on this one this week. I'll review your posting and report back, thank you again for your time and help!

Quick update.

When I hit the replay button the Coin relay pulls down
Then when I manually activate the Start Trip Relay (making it drop) it then resets the score reel and automatically pulls back now and game starts.

So now it’s just getting the Start trip relay to activate when I hit play.

All else seems to be working after that !

Well I’m adjust switches wrong here as now the Stsrt Trip relay does not pull back up on its own.

There for a minute the game started right from the replay button. I even added the 2nd player. Went thru 10 balls. All scoring. Then it won’t start that way again.

It’s just a matter of these switches it seems ??

Now I’m seeing the following :
With the game over relay dropped (to simulate an end of game)

I toggle power switch (still dead)
I hit the replay button- the Coin relay pulls down. Motor turns 1/4 turn

I can manually drop the Start Trip Relay but the motor continues to turn again.

I can then manually lift both the Start Trip and the Game over relay and the game will start (Game over Relay first then the Stsrt Trip or it won’t start )

Took the cover off the long run of relays on the bottom to once again clean/adjust. All “looked” ok.

But right now I can power off , or continue from a completed game - Hit the replay button- and I get a game! Yeah! One or two player!

Right now the “only” issue is the score reels are not resetting on start up. I can manually activate either player score reset relay and I can get them back to zero.

So to close the book on this one - what drives / activates those two score reset relays? (God I hope it’s not one I’ve just adjusted after getting her to work! Lol)

Rolf - if I can ever do anything for you here in the states just let me know! Sorry to hear about your day , hopefully a new day will dawn for you

I let the machine stay on while I went to dinner. After an hour I came back and hit the replay / start button and the game started as it should and the score reels actually reset. Wow!

2nd time it didn’t but after just powering off then back on, it reset. After that game it just took the start button again.

We have a game fully functioning here ! Just amazing with everyone’s help! THANK YOU ALL!

Just waiting on the Backglass to get here and this one is semi finished.

I still have the older “Shelf Style “ cabinet I want to have refinished - then move everything over to that cab. At least we now know the game is fully 100% functional !

If I could post a video of this game in action I would. Simple yes but for 57 years old it “still has game”.

These are photos of the other cabinet (which is where the good playfield came from) with tubular style legs. According to the data base it’s a rare bird so really want to do the full restore on it and move everything back over for history sake

The head attachment is a bit taller and the attachment bolt layout is different so mods will need to be made to make the head I have fit this cabinet

I’ll start a new posting / topic (unless someone chimes in here) as I’m not a cab refinisher at all and hope to find some one that does ??

Even the trim work - was it brushed aluminum ? Should I go back to that or chrome? Legs - same?

Just things to now think about now that the game is working ! Yeah! (My luck, give it a few days and something will quit working lol)

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Well that was short lived. Lol. While the granddaughters were having breakfast I went to the game room to start her up and see if all still works. It doesn’t. Lol. My luck.

Toggle power on. Hit the replay button and no game start or score reel resets. Ugh

But as it was all working last night I’m thinking it’s just one of the switches needing a lil more adjusting.

We’ll see.

Opened her up and just dropped the Start Trip Relay. And it automatically lifted up on its own and started a game.

I went thru 5 balls. Game over. Hit the replay button and game resets the score reels and off to ball 1 again.

Maybe she just needs played for a while?

I’ve heard some of these older games are like self cleaners so maybe that’s part of it ?

Check the switches on the relays in the bank on the side. (Of course mine also needed cleaned and adjusted on the large row of relays on the bottom of the cab but this issue was the Start Trip Relay and Game Relay top swtiches Weren’t closed as they should have been.

Not as supportive as Rolf I know but I’m trying. Lol

Good news I did my daily ritual got my granddaughters breakfast ready then went to the basement to see if this game would start up sure enough it did !!!

Well, after a week away, powered her up..and nuttin ;-( I'm actually back to post # 62 status...ugh. Could be the switches still need more adjusting ?

Frustrating after seeing her work, then I take 5 steps back...oh well

Rolf! Hope things are well. I’ve been busy with finishing my game room and having knee surgeries. But all good on this side of the pond

I saw this last post and I’m back having issues with my 1961 Double Barrel. All powers Up ok but when I hit the replay button the score motor turns slightly and the 2nd coin relay drop which adds a 2nd player , But nothing after that

To start a game I have to manually drop (activate) the Start Trip Relay. All goes great after that.

Why would my replay/start button not activate the Start Trip Relay?

Any help on this one again would be very much appreciative.

(While waiting on responses I’m getting back on my Hokus Pokus - you were helping me in that one as well
Before the “life curve balls”. So I’ll be messaging you on another post for that one

Thanks again!

Rolf and Howard - how are you guys? Looking at old posts and ran across this one.

You two both helped me so much - and I cringe now at what questions I was asking (and could barely make sense of it so not sure how you guys did).

But all’s well here. This game is still playing great. Actually ended up putting her in the shelf style cab (needs painted) and got a new backglass for her. Really looking and playing great - so thank you two so much once more.

Hope all is well with you both!