(Topic ID: 234735)


By Nikrox2

1 year ago

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  • 76 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by rolf_martin_062
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There are 76 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 1 year ago

Hey at least you all got me playing a game which is farther than I thought I’d get just asking to get the power on to the thing.

Right now I can push the replay button and it turns on. All I have to do is momentarily close those two bottom switches on the Start Trip Relay and I can play a full 5 ball game. All lights chimes and scoring is also back after some cleaning

I do notice when I close the left one the Reset Relay activates then when i close the right side the game then starts

Still having issues resetting the score reels to zero but that may come along once I figure out how to restart the game. Some photos of what you’ve all been helping here with. Before and after!

I do have a Backglass on its way. (About an 8 out of 10 not bad for an original which is what I was looking for. This is one is about a 1. Lol)

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#52 1 year ago

Hi Nikrox2
I am still after the "Start Trip Relay" --- You say in post-51 "closing the two bottom switches on it makes the pin to let You play". HOW MANY switches are in Your pin on this Relay ? I looked over the schematics - I have found four switches - did I find all ? I have put in my snippets (schematics) the colors of wires - can You tell me which switches You do close (((I hope for AA and BB))) ? Greetings Rolf

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#53 1 year ago

Rolf I think there are 5 total. 2 on the bottom and 3 on top. Here is a front view (2nd from the left). The third one on top is hidden by the plastic thingy which is where the 2 on top on the left side are a double

#54 1 year ago
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#55 1 year ago

Hi Nikrox2
again - it is getting late in Switzerland - it is time for me to go to sleep - tomorrow I will look again in the schematics - for the fifth switch --- when You do the manipulation on the Start-Trip-Relay-Switches: Does the Start-Relay pull-in ? Does the Reset-Relay pull-in ? Does the Ball-Count reset ? Greetings Rolf

#56 1 year ago

Here’s a better shot from the top.

Yes. The Reset relay pulls in when I touch the left side switch on the bottom. Then when I touch the right side the Start relay activates and that also releases the Reset Relay. Which starts the next game.

Are the AA BB on top or are these the bottoms ones?

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#57 1 year ago

Right now i have the 3 top ones closed when the relay is up. (2 bottoms are open). Then when I physically make the relay drop all of those reverse

Is there something that’s supposed to make this relay drop?

But when I make it drop and the two bottom switches are closed. The motor runs continuous. I have to raise it to stop. Then I still have to touch these two switches to get a game started. Weird.

#58 1 year ago

Hi Nikrox2
On the Start-Trip-Relay-in-the-Bank-of-Relays You have 3 switches closed and two switches open when the relay is up means resetted. I have found the fifth switch - see the JPG "my orange EE". So in the JPG drawn open are "AA and BB" - I believe these are the switches You manipulate for to "start a game" (?).
Yes, the Start-Trip-Relay must actuate / plunge at a time - see the JPG - encircled green - the motor must run, actuate motor-switch (close) B 1 --- the Coin-Relay must pull and have closed its switch and the Game-Relay must be (I believe it must be) plunged so its switch is other than shown in the JPG: Then the Start-Trip-Relay does / must plunge.
You mechanically make it plunge but then the Score-Motor endlessly runs - questions: Do all THREE switches on the Start-Trip-Relay TRUELY open ? Does the Coin-Relay endlessly pulls ? Does the Start-Relay endlessly pulls ? See in the JPG "my orange EE" - when this switch faulty does not open: The Coin-Relay stays endlessly pulling.
See the Coil with the yellow wrapping paper on the bottom of the JPG in Your post-56 --- the Relay-Bank-Reset-Coil - does it ever fires ? See my JPG, "encircled red" - when the motor runs and throws its switch and the Start-Relay is pulling and the Reset-Relay is not pulling: Relay-Bank does reset.

See the second JPG --- upper left corner we see all the switches that make the Score-Motor to run - the first question always is "Do I (You) see an Relay endlessly pulling ?". On the bottom of the second JPG I show the Score-Motor-Switches - we may have to look at one or two or more. Greetings Rolf

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1 week later
#59 1 year ago

Rolf - I apologize for the delay, I had to travel for work (kids want to eat!) lol but I'm finally back and hope to get back on this one this week. I'll review your posting and report back, thank you again for your time and help!

#60 1 year ago

Quick update.

When I hit the replay button the Coin relay pulls down
Then when I manually activate the Start Trip Relay (making it drop) it then resets the score reel and automatically pulls back now and game starts.

So now it’s just getting the Start trip relay to activate when I hit play.

All else seems to be working after that !

#61 1 year ago

Well I’m adjust switches wrong here as now the Stsrt Trip relay does not pull back up on its own.

There for a minute the game started right from the replay button. I even added the 2nd player. Went thru 10 balls. All scoring. Then it won’t start that way again.

It’s just a matter of these switches it seems ??

#62 1 year ago

Now I’m seeing the following :
With the game over relay dropped (to simulate an end of game)

I toggle power switch (still dead)
I hit the replay button- the Coin relay pulls down. Motor turns 1/4 turn

I can manually drop the Start Trip Relay but the motor continues to turn again.

I can then manually lift both the Start Trip and the Game over relay and the game will start (Game over Relay first then the Stsrt Trip or it won’t start )

#63 1 year ago

Hi Nikrox2
I had a busy, troubled day. I go to sleep, I will answer to Your posts 60, 61, 62 in about 20 to 24 hours. Greetings Rolf

#64 1 year ago

Took the cover off the long run of relays on the bottom to once again clean/adjust. All “looked” ok.

But right now I can power off , or continue from a completed game - Hit the replay button- and I get a game! Yeah! One or two player!

Right now the “only” issue is the score reels are not resetting on start up. I can manually activate either player score reset relay and I can get them back to zero.

So to close the book on this one - what drives / activates those two score reset relays? (God I hope it’s not one I’ve just adjusted after getting her to work! Lol)

#65 1 year ago

Rolf - if I can ever do anything for you here in the states just let me know! Sorry to hear about your day , hopefully a new day will dawn for you

I let the machine stay on while I went to dinner. After an hour I came back and hit the replay / start button and the game started as it should and the score reels actually reset. Wow!

2nd time it didn’t but after just powering off then back on, it reset. After that game it just took the start button again.

We have a game fully functioning here ! Just amazing with everyone’s help! THANK YOU ALL!

Just waiting on the Backglass to get here and this one is semi finished.

I still have the older “Shelf Style “ cabinet I want to have refinished - then move everything over to that cab. At least we now know the game is fully 100% functional !

If I could post a video of this game in action I would. Simple yes but for 57 years old it “still has game”.

#66 1 year ago

These are photos of the other cabinet (which is where the good playfield came from) with tubular style legs. According to the data base it’s a rare bird so really want to do the full restore on it and move everything back over for history sake

The head attachment is a bit taller and the attachment bolt layout is different so mods will need to be made to make the head I have fit this cabinet

I’ll start a new posting / topic (unless someone chimes in here) as I’m not a cab refinisher at all and hope to find some one that does ??

Even the trim work - was it brushed aluminum ? Should I go back to that or chrome? Legs - same?

Just things to now think about now that the game is working ! Yeah! (My luck, give it a few days and something will quit working lol)

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#67 1 year ago

Well that was short lived. Lol. While the granddaughters were having breakfast I went to the game room to start her up and see if all still works. It doesn’t. Lol. My luck.

Toggle power on. Hit the replay button and no game start or score reel resets. Ugh

But as it was all working last night I’m thinking it’s just one of the switches needing a lil more adjusting.

We’ll see.

#68 1 year ago

Hi Nikrox2
today was a nice sunny day in Switzerland, temperature around freezing point.
Sad - Your pin was doing fine but not for long. When there is a pause in a topic I happen to forget --- does post-51 tells about the situation Your in (again) ? Can You manually do activate a relay (Coin-Relay, Start-Relay, Start-Trip-Relay, Reset-Relay, other relay) to get life into the pin ?
I already have said it - I say it again: I always have problems with these old pins having a Game-Relay as I do not understand the function of the Game-Relay.
Almost on top in the JPG in post-58 we see "pushing the R.P.-Button (Replay-Button) makes the Coin-Relay to pull in - what happens when You manually activate the Coin-Relay ? Attention, Danger: Wear rubber gloves - the stuff operates on 110VAC !!! Greetings Rolf

#69 1 year ago

Opened her up and just dropped the Start Trip Relay. And it automatically lifted up on its own and started a game.

I went thru 5 balls. Game over. Hit the replay button and game resets the score reels and off to ball 1 again.

Maybe she just needs played for a while?

I’ve heard some of these older games are like self cleaners so maybe that’s part of it ?

#70 1 year ago

I hit the replay button and the motor turns each time but it does not go to start up with a ball 1,

#71 1 year ago

Check the switches on the relays in the bank on the side. (Of course mine also needed cleaned and adjusted on the large row of relays on the bottom of the cab but this issue was the Start Trip Relay and Game Relay top swtiches Weren’t closed as they should have been.

Not as supportive as Rolf I know but I’m trying. Lol

#72 1 year ago

Good news I did my daily ritual got my granddaughters breakfast ready then went to the basement to see if this game would start up sure enough it did !!!

#73 1 year ago

Hi Nikrox2
great, YOU could fix Your pin. Yes, we should play the EM-Pins occasionally --- the "precious Self-Cleaning" only works when we play the pin. May want to read here:

Hi cologneled
A new topic always is interesting for people who want to help - want to start Your own new topic ?
Greetings Rolf

#74 1 year ago

Well, after a week away, powered her up..and nuttin ;-( I'm actually back to post # 62 status...ugh. Could be the switches still need more adjusting ?

Frustrating after seeing her work, then I take 5 steps back...oh well

2 months later
#75 1 year ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi Nikrox2
great, YOU could fix Your pin. Yes, we should play the EM-Pins occasionally --- the "precious Self-Cleaning" only works when we play the pin. May want to read here:
Hi cologneled
A new topic always is interesting for people who want to help - want to start Your own new topic ?
Greetings Rolf

Rolf! Hope things are well. I’ve been busy with finishing my game room and having knee surgeries. But all good on this side of the pond

I saw this last post and I’m back having issues with my 1961 Double Barrel. All powers Up ok but when I hit the replay button the score motor turns slightly and the 2nd coin relay drop which adds a 2nd player , But nothing after that

To start a game I have to manually drop (activate) the Start Trip Relay. All goes great after that.

Why would my replay/start button not activate the Start Trip Relay?

Any help on this one again would be very much appreciative.

(While waiting on responses I’m getting back on my Hokus Pokus - you were helping me in that one as well
Before the “life curve balls”. So I’ll be messaging you on another post for that one

Thanks again!

#76 1 year ago

Hi Nikrox2
I am doing +/- fine, some problems here and there - AND I do have the problem "I am not so good in/with old Williams pins having the 'turntable, Gottlieb-like Score-Motor' " --- fellow pinsiders - when You are familiar with these pins: Please participate.

To me - a real problem is "what for is the Game-Relay - how does it function 'along the time-axis' - is it (exactly ?, quite alike ?, not at all ?) as Gottlieb-First-Ball-Relay". Other problems "Start-Trip-Relay and Start-Relay ?", "Outhole-Index-Relay - Outhole-Relay?", "where is the Trough-Switch mounted ?", "what relays are mounted in the Relay-Bank ?" Nikrox2 - is the Trough-Switch like here https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2459&picno=46683 , upper right corner - on the way "Outhole to Shooter Alley" ? Do You have papertags in the pin telling what relays are mounted in the Relay-Bank ? what relays sit in the Relay-Bank ?
You write in post-75 " ... hitting the Credit-Button makes the motor to turn slightly ..." - in the ipdb-schematics I see: Your Score-Motor is 90 degrees symmetrical !!! (not 180 degrees like newer Williams / Ballys, not 120 degrees like Gottliebs) - does the motor turns 90 degrees then stops ?
You write in post-75 " ... hitting the Credit-Button ... makes the 2nd-Coin-Relay to actuate ..." - is this a relay in the Relay-Bank ? - is it a normal relay ? - pulling-in ? when the motor stops the relay has quit pulling ?

Does Your Game-Relay sit in the Relay-Bank ? If "Yes": Please two tests - first test having the Game-Relay "resetted" - the second test having the Game-Relay "plunged".
First test - have some credits on the Replay-Counter - please unplug the main power cord - now move the Reset-Arm on the Relay-Bank - the Game-Relay is resetted. Plug-in the main power cord - nothing should happen - then press the Credit Button - does the Coin-Relay pull-in ? (according to the schematics it should pull-in) --- what else happens ?
Second test - have some credits on the Replay-Counter - please unplug the main power cord - now move the Reset-Arm on the Relay-Bank - the Game-Relay is resetted - then manually make the Game-Relay to plunge. Plug-in the main power cord - nothing should happen - then press the Credit Button - does the Coin-Relay pull-in ? (according to the schematics it should pull-in) --- what else happens ? Greetings Rolf

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