(Topic ID: 283517)

Power on/off all machines simultaneously

By RobbyIRL5

3 years ago


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#1 3 years ago

Hello, as happens with many, what started as one, is now twelve. When I start thinking about the time I spend walking down the row flipping on and off power switches, it might actually start adding up. Knowing I can't be the first one to think of this, thought I'd throw out a post to see if anybody has any good product solutions, etc. I know on my audio equipment higher end Monster power components, there are delayed circuits, but I have no idea if a pinball machine (mostly new machines, but a few older ones with ugly power supplies) needs something quite as sophisticated. I don't want to daisy chain power strips as have always heard that's a no-no. Thought about using three power strips each plugged into their own remote control switch (like for turning on and off outdoor Christmas lights), or even a Lutron smart switch, but I'm no electrician so just want to make sure I'm not doing anything to damage the machines or start a fire. Currently have about 3-4 machines per power strip, but I still turn them on/off at the machine vs the power strip level. Any thoughts appreciated!

#2 3 years ago

I've wondered too. I have 3 pins on one out let. 4 on another. All into surge protectors. When I'm done, I unplug surge also. Had a bad experience 20 yrs sgo with lightning, surge protectors and insurance company.

#3 3 years ago

Thee's a lot of threads on this you can search for with smart switches etc, but I can tell you there is no problem 'instant on-ing' all your machines.
I worked in an arcade for years where all machines were turned on/off everyday with a breaker.

#4 3 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Thee's a lot of threads on this you can search for with smart switches etc, but I can tell you there is no problem 'instant on-ing' all your machines.
I worked in an arcade for years where all machines were turned on/off everyday with a breaker.

Does it matter if I unplug or turn off individually

#5 3 years ago

Tim Arnold would turn off all of his games in the Big Hit Shed with one flick of a breaker switch when his Pinball Night parties were over.

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from RobbyIRL5:

Hello, as happens with many, what started as one, is now twelve. When I start thinking about the time I spend walking down the row flipping on and off power switches, it might actually start adding up. Knowing I can't be the first one to think of this, thought I'd throw out a post to see if anybody has any good product solutions, etc. I know on my audio equipment higher end Monster power components, there are delayed circuits, but I have no idea if a pinball machine (mostly new machines, but a few older ones with ugly power supplies) needs something quite as sophisticated. I don't want to daisy chain power strips as have always heard that's a no-no. Thought about using three power strips each plugged into their own remote control switch (like for turning on and off outdoor Christmas lights), or even a Lutron smart switch, but I'm no electrician so just want to make sure I'm not doing anything to damage the machines or start a fire. Currently have about 3-4 machines per power strip, but I still turn them on/off at the machine vs the power strip level. Any thoughts appreciated!

I bought smart power strips that allow groupings and individual socket control from an application and works with Alexa and Google Voice Assistant. Alexa gives you a little more flexibility with groupings but either works. Using the application or either voice assistant I tell it to turn on / off "all pinball", "pinball one", "pinball two", or individual games like "WOZ", "SpiderMan", etc. They are relatively cheap and I just run them all on their own separate VLAN / WLAN to help protect the rest of my home network but that's probably not really necessary.

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from Hayfarmer:

Does it matter if I unplug or turn off individually

Turning a game off is the same as unplugging it, it's not like a computer, DVR, TV, etc. that has sleep circuits for remote power-on, etc.

#8 3 years ago

I have the remote outlets (3 outlets on one key fob remote) from Stanley (from Amazon)

https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-Pk-Indoor-Remote-System/dp/B00R3LOZEG/ref=asc_df_B00R3LOZEG/

I have my games on 2 of them, and my lights on 2 of them (4 FOBS) - total 12 outlets / buttons to push and all on as needed. I can then turn off those pesky (but beautiful) neon lights to keep the glare down during serious "pinball time".

But this made it so much easier. I've got them labeled so I can turn on a bank of games, or all of them. I used to walk around turning each game or light on individually, but it would take forever!

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#9 3 years ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

it's not like a computer, DVR, TV, etc. that has sleep circuits for remote power-on, etc.

Some of them ARE computers, using off the shelf PC motherboards, power supplies, hard drives, and video cards.

#10 3 years ago

I've seen videos from TNT Amusements where they literally are just flipping breakers to turn things on and off. I have both of my machines on a surge strip that has a "smart" plug on the wall side. So I just say "Computer, Pinball On" and they cut on or off. I've even seen someone fast cycle a Williams Firepower 4-7 times(not sure why they did it, but on and off super fast) and it was fine. I wouldn't really feel comfortable doing this on modern machines though.

I'm sure even newer pinball machines have something to protect them from damage. I've never turned a newer one on or off, but I assume you just use the switch. If it required a shutdown from the menu, I'd say it's not a good idea to just shut it off.

Another thing to note is that modern computers can be hard shut down without problems.(Same with flash drives, just make sure you aren't transferring something or accessing the data when you do it).
It's not like it was back in the day. Modern hardware has made it much safer to just shut off.
You shouldn't do that all the time, but if something freezes or locks up...you don't really have a choice

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from Nikrox2:

I have the remote outlets (3 outlets on one key fob remote) from Stanley (from Amazon)
amazon.com link »
I have my games on 2 of them, and my lights on 2 of them (4 FOBS) - total 12 outlets / buttons to push and all on as needed. I can then turn off those pesky (but beautiful) neon lights to keep the glare down during serious "pinball time".
But this made it so much easier. I've got them labeled so I can turn on a bank of games, or all of them. I used to walk around turning each game or light on individually, but it would take forever! [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Damn - nice gameroom!!

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Some of them ARE computers, using off the shelf PC motherboards, power supplies, hard drives, and video cards.

Very true but I meant that the power switch on the games actually cuts all power to the game as opposed to putting into a sleep mode like TVs and other things that still are actually consuming power.

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from Deez:

Damn - nice gameroom!!

The bar, I mean game room is open! Short drive to Medina from Akron my friend! I'll even stay 6'-0 away!

#14 3 years ago

The trick is that your switch needs to be able to handle the current of all the games you are switching.

In an arcade, you usually see 6 games on a 20A circuit, that might all feed off of a big 200A or larger breaker.

Electricians don't like when people use Circuit Breakers as switches, because they don't have the endurance of a real switch.

#15 3 years ago

So I bought the WeMo smart switches and created a bit of an issue that didn’t seem to previously exist. I had 7 games (5 modern, 2 WPC’s, for some reason it feels like modern games would take less power) running on a 20amp circuit with a 15amp GFI for 6 months, no issues, through two power strips. I installed a WeMo smart outlet switcher on both plugs of the GFI (one per power strip), and that’s when it started. Seeing 7 machines power off suddenly is not a warming feeling! The GFI popped. Took the WeMo’s off, popped again - this time in an epic game of Jurassic park . Broke out an extension cord and split the machines to another circuit and were fine now. Electrician coming tomorrow to double the capacity on the game wall (pulling 2 new 20amp circuits so I’ll have 4 for 10 machines).

I self diagnosed my issue but led to new questions:
- how did I go 6 months with no issue and what did those WeMo’s unleash
- been using cheap Amazon brand surge protector/power strips. Should I ditch those, any recommendations? Any sense in using battery backups (like I have on computers)?
-once I’ve got enough power, so I try the WeMo or any sort of master power control? After seeing my games go dark a few times testing, I’m thinking I’m ok with flipping 10 switches!
-how can I test how much power each game is pulling? Do the older games pull more?
-on the new games the power switch I believe just initiates a shutdown sequence, vs stopping the power. The computers essentially shut down, close files, etc. any issue with corrupt data just pulling the power (like through a smart switch)?

Thanks for the discussion, interesting topic to me.

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The trick is that your switch needs to be able to handle the current of all the games you are switching.
In an arcade, you usually see 6 games on a 20A circuit, that might all feed off of a big 200A or larger breaker.
Electricians don't like when people use Circuit Breakers as switches, because they don't have the endurance of a real switch.

This is my exact set up. I have 2 separate 20A circuits for the games. Two games running to each wall outlet box and 6 individual wall switches to turn them on two at a time. I don't turn them on literally all at once, but normally just flip them on in quick succession and never had issues.

#17 3 years ago

Since you're hosting the electrician, ask him to use a clamp on ammeter to see just how much power is used turning them on and then just having them on. There will be a difference in current while turning on (in rush) versus idle. (on, but not playing)

You can get fancy and have a switch operated breaker feed all the outlets - kind of pricey, but it would do what you want. I would recommend that you separate your lighting load and convenience load from your pinball load. You may want to wander around without turning on all of the machines, plus you may want to run an extension cord to a single machine to troubleshoot.

Not sure why the WeMos would affect this. Concerning power strips - you want to use ones with higher joules ratings. The cheap ones (low joules) are junk, and can't really handle a large surge. Spend the money and get a whole house surge protector.

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from RobbyIRL5:

Hello, as happens with many, what started as one, is now twelve. When I start thinking about the time I spend walking down the row flipping on and off power switches, it might actually start adding up. Knowing I can't be the first one to think of this, thought I'd throw out a post to see if anybody has any good product solutions, etc. I know on my audio equipment higher end Monster power components, there are delayed circuits, but I have no idea if a pinball machine (mostly new machines, but a few older ones with ugly power supplies) needs something quite as sophisticated. I don't want to daisy chain power strips as have always heard that's a no-no. Thought about using three power strips each plugged into their own remote control switch (like for turning on and off outdoor Christmas lights), or even a Lutron smart switch, but I'm no electrician so just want to make sure I'm not doing anything to damage the machines or start a fire. Currently have about 3-4 machines per power strip, but I still turn them on/off at the machine vs the power strip level. Any thoughts appreciated!

You can easily (with access to the inside of the wall/ceiling) wire receptacles to a switch just like turning on the lights in a room. That's what I did in my basement. Three receptacles in the ceiling controlled by a wall switch.. If the walls are already finished then its a lot more work unless you get lucky and can just add a switch to control the existing wall receptacles .

#19 3 years ago

Your GFCI may simply need replacing,

I had one in a basement bathroom that tripped by itself even if no one was home. It would do it maybe twice a week. Replace it with a new one, it's been holding for a couple of years.

#20 3 years ago

I have my arcade set up on 4 smart plugs. Amazon Smart plugs run about $25 each and an echo dot is ~ $30. I have mine set up so that "arcade lights left, ardade lights right, arcade left, and arcade right" are seperate named plugs. I have LED lights plugged into the wall and running around the top of my arcade. I have a routine set up that responds to "computer, turn on the arcade". All of my pins are plugged into surge protecters plugged into smart plugs. I can turn the lights on or off, or the machines on or off with my voice which is handy when I decide I need extra lighting in the middle of a game. It is also nice to be able to turn my pins on from another room when I have modern pins that take a minute to boot. Also, with an echo dot hooked up to external speakers, you can play and change songs while playing EM or early SS pins.

Good luck!

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#21 3 years ago

I use this product, Made this video about 5 years ago when I installed them.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DQELHBS/ref=od_aui_detailpages00

#22 3 years ago

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RCNB2L3

4 pack of brand name smart plugs $27

Works with google, alexa, echo. "Ok google, turn on ....."

12 amps each, so don't go putting 6 games on a single

I would only put these on the guest Wi-Fi password of your router.

#23 3 years ago
Quoted from wiggy07:

I use this product, Made this video about 5 years ago when I installed them.

amazon.com link »

Love those things. I bought a 5 pack with 2 remotes for $35 years ago and use those with my Christmas trees(wife demands 3, 7'-9' trees in the house). They work really well and the remote works over great distances.

#24 3 years ago

I'm considering moving my 7 pins to a new room in the house. Currently they are connected to several different wall outlets but they are all on the same 10amp circuit. I start them one by one and never had any issues.

In the new room there are outlets from two different 10amp curcuits available. The house main fuse is 16amp.

I plan to get 10-11 games in total as that is what I can fit reasonably in the room. Do you think I would be able to turn them on all at the same time (using smart outlets and a remote or a similar solution) or will the power surge trip the circuit breakers?

What about turning on 5 at once, then 5 more?

How much amp does a typical 90s pin draw at startup, idling and playing?

Any input appreciated

#25 3 years ago

Tell whatever home automation you're using (Hubitat here) to put a brief delay (I use 3 seconds) between the "ON"s.

#26 3 years ago
Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

I'm considering moving my 7 pins to a new room in the house. Currently they are connected to several different wall outlets but they are all on the same 10amp circuit. I start them one by one and never had any issues.
In the new room there are outlets from two different 10amp curcuits available. The house main fuse is 16amp.
I plan to get 10-11 games in total as that is what I can fit reasonably in the room. Do you think I would be able to turn them on all at the same time (using smart outlets and a remote or a similar solution) or will the power surge trip the circuit breakers?
What about turning on 5 at once, then 5 more?
How much amp does a typical 90s pin draw at startup, idling and playing?
Any input appreciated

I would also like to find out about this

#27 3 years ago
Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

I'm considering moving my 7 pins to a new room in the house. Currently they are connected to several different wall outlets but they are all on the same 10amp circuit. I start them one by one and never had any issues.
In the new room there are outlets from two different 10amp curcuits available. The house main fuse is 16amp.
I plan to get 10-11 games in total as that is what I can fit reasonably in the room. Do you think I would be able to turn them on all at the same time (using smart outlets and a remote or a similar solution) or will the power surge trip the circuit breakers?
What about turning on 5 at once, then 5 more?
How much amp does a typical 90s pin draw at startup, idling and playing?
Any input appreciated

You being on 220vac means your games are drawing 1/2 the amper

#28 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You being on 220vac means your games are drawing 1/2 the amper

Oh, I didn't consider that. Yes, here in Sweden we have 230V AC.

So would that mean I should be safe with 10 pins on two 10Amp circuits turning on at the same time (with house on a 16Amp fuse)?

#29 3 years ago
Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

Oh, I didn't consider that. Yes, here in Sweden we have 230V AC.
So would that mean I should be safe with 10 pins on two 10Amp circuits turning on at the same time (with house on a 16Amp fuse)?

Two on a 230V / 10 Amp circuit will be easily in the safety margin. I have to ask though, is your entire house really on a 16 AMP fuse / breaker? I have a relatively modest house in the midwest and I have 200 AMP service and that is 220VAC, though most things only use 120 VAC.

#30 3 years ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

Two on a 230V / 10 Amp circuit will be easily in the safety margin.

My question was having 5 on one 10Amp and another 5 pins on a second 10A circuit and turning them on at the same time. I am currently running all 7 now on a single 10A circuit now without problem (I do turn them on one a a time though, never all at once).

Quoted from bobukcat:

I have to ask though, is your entire house really on a 16 AMP fuse / breaker? I have a relatively modest house in the midwest and I have 200 AMP service and that is 220VAC, though most things only use 120 VAC.

I'm sorry if I was a bit unclear in my previous post. Here in Sweden we normally have 3 phases into the house so I have 3 x 400VAC/16A in. The wall outlets are at 230VAC (between phase and common) but due to 400VAC in the central (between phases) we can utilize pretty large wattage simultaneously. I'm no electrician so can't really explain it better than that. My house of 296kvm2 runs fine on those 3x16A, even in the coldest of winter (granted the heating is from district heating and not electric radiators).

#31 3 years ago
Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

My question was having 5 on one 10Amp and another 5 pins on a second 10A circuit and turning them on at the same time. I am currently running all 7 now on a single 10A circuit now without problem (I do turn them on one a a time though, never all at once).

I'm sorry if I was a bit unclear in my previous post. Here in Sweden we normally have 3 phases into the house so I have 3 x 400VAC/16A in. The wall outlets are at 230VAC (between phase and common) but due to 400VAC in the central (between phases) we can utilize pretty large wattage simultaneously. I'm no electrician so can't really explain it better than that. My house of 296kvm2 runs fine on those 3x16A, even in the coldest of winter (granted the heating is from district heating and not electric radiators).

Sorry, yes I completely misread your question. I still think you're fine turning those all one and off and once, the in-rush current won't be that significantly higher and depending on what games you have some will power up slower than others, i.e. a Stern Spike game takes a lot longer than a WPC and a JJP or American Pinball will take even longer.

Thanks for explaining the Swedish electrical grid, had no idea they run three phase into the houses there. That's reserved for larger industrial-type buildings here in the U.S. where houses are generally 220/240 VAC two phase with most things using a single phase at 110/120VAC.

1 year later
#32 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I would only put these on the guest Wi-Fi password of your router

vid1900 - Could you please add some color as to the why behind this?

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