(Topic ID: 140413)

Power issue after updated ROM install on RCT

By Pinballerchef

8 years ago


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  • 37 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by scasey
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#1 8 years ago

After I installed the new ROMS I can't seem to play a game.....all the GI stays on and none of the insert lights lights want to come on. And I can get into the service menu but it will not allow me to run any tests......clear ball trough, test flashers, etc. Nothing. Anything I am missing here??

I got the game to play but on ball 3 all the lights froze up again and it repeated 2 call outs over and over. Than it couldn't find all 4 balls in the trough.....now every time I turn it off and back on its doing a ball search. Something fishy is going on here.

And towards the end of this post now the DMD won't come on after I power on the machine now. All the GI still stays on tho....that hasn't changed.

#2 8 years ago

Bad new ROM(s) ? Install one backwards ?

Try old ones ?

LTG : )™

#3 8 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Bad new ROM(s) ? Install one backwards ?
Try old ones ?
LTG : )™

Not bad. They fired right up and I seen ROM version 7.01 on the DMD before the DMD stopped showing. JohnW on here hooked me up with them.....im he sure he's solid on those. Nope all installed exactly as they should be....as I said I even played almost a full game.....all was fine until ball 3. Yes I tried the old ones just to test that theory out. Same issue as with the new ROMS.

#4 8 years ago

Still stumped on what this could be....any ideas or help is appreciated.

#5 8 years ago
Quoted from Pinballerchef:

After I installed the new ROMS I can't seem to play a game.....all the GI stays on and none of the insert lights lights want to come on. And I can get into the service menu but it will not allow me to run any tests......clear ball trough, test flashers, etc. Nothing. Anything I am missing here??
I got the game to play but on ball 3 all the lights froze up again and it repeated 2 call outs over and over. Than it couldn't find all 4 balls in the trough.....now every time I turn it off and back on its doing a ball search. Something fishy is going on here.
And towards the end of this post now the DMD won't come on after I power on the machine now. All the GI still stays on tho....that hasn't changed.

Your issue probably has nothing to do with Roms. Unfortunately the data given isn't so good. The tests you all tried to run above require the high power switch to be engaged which won't be when the coin door is open.

So you can start by reseating all your ribbon cables. As for ball search, this happens if the game can't find all the balls. Diagnose it in the switch test and try triggering the trough switches with you hand.

#6 8 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Your issue probably has nothing to do with Roms. Unfortunately the data given isn't so good. The tests you all tried to run above require the high power switch to be engaged which won't be when the coin door is open.
So you can start by reseating all your ribbon cables. As for ball search, this happens if the game can't find all the balls. Diagnose it in the switch test and try triggering the trough switches with you hand.

Thanks markmon I'll see what reseating the connectors and ribbon cables does. I can't test anything until I get the DMD back up and see an actual screen. I didn't think the ROMS had anything to do with it....the game was working 100% before I installed these so.....pulled the board....put in the new ROMS...blah blah blah. I muffed up something somewhere it seems. I'm just looking for ideas to try since looking at what could be wrong has left me clueless.

#7 8 years ago

Ok mini update....reseated all the connectors and nothing. Than I started fiddling with the ribbon cables and this small ribbon cable (picture) when slightly pulled out made all the lights/sounds come on, and would let me go into test mode. But the DMD was still non existent. I turned the machine off and on a couple more times though and now when I jiggle that cable it "clicks" all the existing powered items (lights....including GI which stays on still when I fire up the machine, sounds, etc) off.

Weird and I'd never seen this before.....that other cable pictured to the right (you see a glimpse of it) had some kind of clear silicone hardened glue around it on the board and the connector itself where it connected. This is the plasma controller cable.....and the silicone junk was on either end.....CPU and DMD driver/rom board.

image.jpegimage.jpeg

#8 8 years ago

Stern hot glues those. Keeps them from vibrating free.

The display driver has its own CPU. If you power a game up with no CPU, the display driver will display the ROM revision and boot - but that's all you get.

New parts *do* fail, does anything different happen with the original CPU ROM, but the other new ones?

#9 8 years ago

So you are asking me to to put the old 4.0 CPU ROM back in, leave all the new ROMS in and fire up the game? If so will that make an issue somewhere else on the pin?? I'll try that but I don't want to dig myself a deeper hole here.

#10 8 years ago

Ok so I tried adding the old CPU ROM and it didn't change anything. Anything else here to try?? I'm looking for some ideas/help here soon.....not many responses since I posted this.

#11 8 years ago

Ok I would start by thinking they're separate problems. Have you metered all your fuses? Measured for power at the DMD? Once you have display you can fiddle with the ribbon cables more. Perhaps two pins on the ribbon cables are touching or you bent one when pulling out the board. For future reference, you do not need to pull the board to swap the rom chip.

#12 8 years ago

I have checked all the fuses and they are solid. Where do I check for power at the DMD.....haven't thought about doing that? I agree it might be the ribbon cables as I pulled the board 6 or so times putting in and replacing ROM chips. I am going to order new cables and report back....seems like the next step. Thanks.

#14 8 years ago
Quoted from Pinballerchef:

I have checked all the fuses and they are solid. Where do I check for power at the DMD.....haven't thought about doing that? I agree it might be the ribbon cables as I pulled the board 6 or so times putting in and replacing ROM chips. I am going to order new cables and report back....seems like the next step. Thanks.

I doubt it's the ribbon cables themselves. More likely the headers where they attach to the boards. Bent / broken pins sounds like the number one suspect to me. Again, not sure why you were pulling out boards to replace a simple rom chip set.

#15 8 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

not sure why you were pulling out boards to replace a simple rom chip set.

Sometimes I have to pull the board. Especially when the socket is a machined pin socket, and it's dark. It's frustrating, but sometimes I have to pull it.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#16 8 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

I doubt it's the ribbon cables themselves. More likely the headers where they attach to the boards. Bent / broken pins sounds like the number one suspect to me. Again, not sure why you were pulling out boards to replace a simple rom chip set.

Sometimes it is best to remove the board. I don't like flexing on big boards when it takes a bit of insertion force to get the IC to slide into the socket. You can hear metal flexing and crackling.

#17 8 years ago

Yeah pins are in my unfinished basement.....not the best lighting. Plus I felt more comfortable getting the ROMS in and out without bending up the legs on the ROMS which are easily bent....and getting them back in 100%. I apparently messed up something else in process buuuuut this stuff happens even when you are trying to be cautious about something else.

Let me get a good look at the pins on the boards themselves and see if I bent something up there.....quite possible. I thought I could have damaged the cable itself.

#18 8 years ago

Ok so taking what markmon mentioned I pulled and inspected the board a lot more closely. The connector in question that seems to be causing me an issue (the CN1) had one header pin sticking up that had some type of white dust on it....and when I cleaned it off it seemed dark and dingy....as compared to the other ones which were golden and shiny.

Keep in mind I'm no board guy at all so not sure if it's anything but it definitely doesn't look like all the other pins coming up off the connector on the board. Here is a pic of said pin...not the best pic I know but if you look closely (third pin in from the top row if you are counting from the left) you can see it's not like all the other kids. I also took a pic from the back of the board just to show that all the solder joints are solid and clean......

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#19 8 years ago

Good find!
That's pin 15, which carries "I/O Strobe" from the MPU to the driver board.
I/O Strobe enables coils to fire and also the lamp matrix to work.
If the lamp matrix isn't working, the driver board commands "blanking" back to the MPU, and you see what you are seeing.

If you have the right tools and experience, you can replace that connector. If you've never done PCB work, don't try it. WhiteStar boards are very expensive to replace these days. If you want me to fix it, I can take care of it for you. Drop me a PM.

Bottom line...what you've found is a plausible reason for the symptoms you describe.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
htp://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#20 8 years ago

Thanks Chris!
PM sent.

#21 8 years ago

Sorry. Dumb recommendation but before you get too far into this - did you replace the CPU and Display ROMs together? CPU should be 7.0.2 and display at 7.0.1. I did mine as a set and all is good. Many fixes since 4.0 code. Especially for the Opto issues.

#22 8 years ago
Quoted from adam12hicks:

Sorry. Dumb recommendation but before you get too far into this - did you replace the CPU and Display ROMs together? CPU should be 7.0.2 and display at 7.0.1. I did mine as a set and all is good. Many fixes since 4.0 code. Especially for the Opto issues.

Yes sir!! I replaced the whole lot of them....speech ROMS too. I hate knowing I have old azz ROM codes in any game.

#23 8 years ago

Interesting. I've been fighting gremlins with my RCT but it's 100% now. Had a crazy long haul opto issue that I believe turned out to be a factory coil with a 'loose' wire making contact with the housing, which was making contact with the opto bracket, which was shorting optos and blowing Q5 transistor on the switch column. FINALLY got it resolved by swapping the coil, and putting in new optos by Great Lakes. Then I managed to blow a coil diode and transistor that I had to fix, but now the thing is 100%.

As a side note - I don't believe the speech ROMS have changed since the unit was released... have they? If so, I need some new speech ROMS!

Thanks,
Adam

#24 8 years ago
Quoted from adam12hicks:

Interesting. I've been fighting gremlins with my RCT but it's 100% now. Had a crazy long haul opto issue that I believe turned out to be a factory coil with a 'loose' wire making contact with the housing, which was making contact with the opto bracket, which was shorting optos and blowing Q5 transistor on the switch column. FINALLY got it resolved by swapping the coil, and putting in new optos by Great Lakes. Then I managed to blow a coil diode and transistor that I had to fix, but now the thing is 100%.
As a side note - I don't believe the speech ROMS have changed since the unit was released... have they? If so, I need some new speech ROMS!
Thanks,
Adam

Well you have been having a blast with your machine

I have yet to get the game running since I switched ROMS now that I am running into board issues which are in the process of being resolved but I bought a set of updated sound/speech ROMS so I'm assuming yes.

#25 8 years ago

Ok. Yeah mine's finally 100% and working great. NVRAM, external sub, red DMD, roller coasters added, full LEDS and in the process of another fun mod I'll post later.

Weird that you're having that many issues with the ROMs. I had an issue with my sound chip but it was because I let a drop of solder fall onto it and cross two pins :-/ relatively simple fix though.

I'll do some research into the sound ROMs. Haven't seen anything to suggest they are updated but would be interested if so.

#26 8 years ago

Are posting MODS somewhere here on the forums?? I haven't noticed anything RCT related since it doesn't get a ton of love on here. If so link me! I'd be interested to see all your MOD ideas. The one thing I'd like to change out is that boring troll......neat toy but not really interactive and needs some future styling up there

#27 8 years ago

Pinballerchef (are you a chef? If so, where? I'm a very experienced eater of fine foods )

I just posted a thread of the mods so far... https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/todays-mod-for-the-5-rct-players-on-here-p

Not a ton of pics but you can kinda see what I've done. Except for a few little cracks in the left large plastic ramp, my machine is in amazing shape for the $400 I paid

4 weeks later
#28 8 years ago

I am still not up and running here. I had the board connector replaced and I pulled all boards and the ribbon cables and had it tested in another machine and it fired right up. Not with my RCT. As before it powers on and all the LEDS on the boards light up but I get no DMD, no GI, no inserts....nothing. Yet it's still "on".

What is my next step here??

#29 8 years ago

I had a similar problem with my monopoly. Lots of things would not work. Game wouldn't boot every time. I had to replace the header pin on the driver board and replace the ribbon cable to get things working again. I still have some gremlins so I may replace the header on the CPU board side.

#30 8 years ago

Have you checked the orientation of your ribbon cables? Red line should go to the pin 1 side of the connector.

#31 8 years ago

Yeah 20eyes my boards are solid tho....like i stated they were gone over and tested in another machine and were rock solid.

Quoted from scasey:

Have you checked the orientation of your ribbon cables? Red line should go to the pin 1 side of the connector.

Well it looked as tho I had them in properly but I switched it around and it fired right up and is playing fine now?! The only cable i switched was the one going from the back of the DMD board to the CPU. Was it that simple

Pinball. Yeah.

#32 8 years ago

Wow. Is it up and running completely now?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#33 8 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Wow. Is it up and running completely now?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

Yes! I think Scasey nailed it. I switched around that ribbon cable and voila....it fired right up and was played all day. Go figure

If that was my main issue all along than I am as clueless as ever. Crazy.

#34 8 years ago
Quoted from Pinballerchef:

the one going from the back of the DMD board to the CPU

Oh. OK. That WOULD matter. That ribbon carries both address and data lines. If it is on backwards, nothing is going to work. Dang.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#35 8 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Oh. OK. That WOULD matter. That ribbon carries both address and data lines. If it is on backwards, nothing is going to work. Dang.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

Apparently

Live and learn. That I did. At least I got that toasty looking connector fixed and batteries off the board. I'm back in business....all that matters!

#36 8 years ago

Make sure to check your coil on the maintenance man pop bumper just in front of that opto. Mine (and others) have had a loose coil wire that touches the housing, sending 50vdc into the adjacent opto assembly (they touch each other if you don't insulate them) and blowing optos. I went through a number of optos and $$$ before getting help on this board from someone who had the same issue on another Stern machine of the same vintage.

We've been really happy with our RCT now that it's relatively modded out and nicer looking

#37 8 years ago

Glad it was an easy fix.

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