(Topic ID: 78561)

Power board or CPU board failure (or neither)? Multiple failures at once.

By ExitWound

10 years ago


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  • 13 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by ExitWound
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#1 10 years ago

It all started by changing my batteries in my Starship Troopers. There were some older alkaline batteries that had begun to corrode the springs inside the battery tray on the cpu/sound board (520-5136-00 rev D). There is no indication that the corrosion had spread beyond that other than an intermittent connection if the battery tray wasn't secured properly with a zip tie. After putting in the batteries, I had begun to notice some oddities in the game that have gotten progressively worse even as the game isn't being powered nor played.

I turned the game on to play the day after changing the batteries and noticed that the stepper motor that drives the Bug Warrior wasn't completing its travel, getting stuck half way down the 6" path. I proceeded to troubleshoot the stepper motor itself but all seems to be fine with it. Once installed, it doesn't have enough oomph to move the attached Bug Warrior.

ALSO, the bottom of three bumpers is triggering the switch, but not popping. Tests from the on-board testing don't pop the bumper but grounding the transistor does.

THEN, the auto-launcher coil doesn't fire, neither from the on-board test or by directly wiring it as Dr Pinball had me do.

NOT ONLY THAT, the yellow flashers don't work now. All other sets of flashers do.

IN ADDITION, the entire row 10 is out on the lamp matrix (7-segment display on the playfield plus shoot again - all stopped lighting.) On-board testing doesn't light any of them.

FOLLOWING THAT, row #2 on the lamp matrix is out and will not light through on-board testing.

LIKEWISE, most of column #7 on the lamp matrix is out too, but not the whole column. Rows #7-9 light fine.

Things worked fine until I changed the batteries on the cpu/sound board. All LED voltage indicators on the I/O board (520-5137-01) are lit (the 50V turning off properly when the coin door opens). I've reseated all headers' cables on the boards, flipped the ribbon cable that connects the two (red wire on pin1) and done some rudimentary continuity tests from the headers to the failing yellow flash lamps and coils that don't fire which seem to indicate that connectivity is fine.

Indicators point to something bigger going on that I'm missing. I've gone over the wiring diagrams for days and haven't been able to find anything that puts these things into the same realm other than one board or the other failing in a way I can't wrap my head around. I'm by no means an electrical engineer or know anything but the basics of circuits so it's difficult to understand what's going on. (My soldering is in no shape to remove and test components individually.) The game boots, plays fine, stays powered, but many board-controlled objects don't work. All of this seemingly happened within a day or two of changing the batteries.

How do I determine what exactly the failure is here? Where do I go from here? It's a little overwhelming on how fast it's gone downhill. Any help would be great.

Stumped.

#2 10 years ago

So start by checking your fuses with a dmm. Next, I assume you removed the board to change the batteries due to the tie strap that goes through the board. So you should reseat all your connectors on the board.

#3 10 years ago

Markmon is correct, you have to start somewhere, so check your power quality and fuses, check your cables as well, especially the I/O power driver board cables since this board is directly responsible for driving the coils/flashers/stepper that you are having trouble with. I'm not experienced much with the Whitestar games, FWIW here are some of my thoughts:

Quoted from ExitWound:

There is no indication that the corrosion had spread beyond that other than an intermittent connection if the battery tray wasn't secured properly with a zip tie.

This is a little strange, should not be intermittent. Perhaps your connection here is weak or something nearby? Can we get you to post a close up picture of this area? ...that might help us all, maybe someone will see something odd or overlooked.

Quoted from ExitWound:

ALSO, the bottom of three bumpers is triggering the switch, but not popping. Tests from the on-board testing don't pop the bumper but grounding the transistor does.

If MPU knows the switch closes, and the transistor can be grounded to fire the coil, then somewhere the MPU board is not firing the transistor. Could be cabling between I/O and MPU, could be corrosion damage you didn't see, chip loose in socket, any number of things - it even could be coincidental. Note there are quite a few MOS/CMOS parts in this system that can also be damaged by static from handling the board. The point I would start at here would be to test and troubleshoot the I/O board, working back from the transistor to see why it isn't getting the signal to fire.

I am not going to get into too much more than that right now. I know it feels overwhelming, but take small steps and focus on one problem at a time. Sometimes when you solve one problem it provides the solution for another.

#4 10 years ago

First thing I did tonight was to check the battery tray area and it turns out that the two solder points beneath the tray itself aren't solid. The solder-side of the board seems fine, but the voltage just doesn't show 5V correctly during testing. It's way too intermittent to be a solid connection. I'll be removing them. I'll probably wire in at least a remote tray for now and get rid of this tray altogether. I know it's not immune to corrosion using a remote tray, but hopefully between it and the lithium batteries I'm using are enough to warn me well in advance if something does go wrong.

The game is going on 17 years now. Is it worth replacing the IDC connectors on the boards? Do they eventually 'wear out' over time?

P5270363.JPGP5270363.JPG

Post edited by ExitWound : Added final thought

#5 10 years ago

If you have issues with voltage making it to the board under the battery holder at the solder joints, the board has to have seen some battery leakage at some point. I would say this is the cause of the issues you're seeing. The traces under the battery holder are thin and delicate and go between the ROM, RAM, and PAL. Any continuity issues there will cause strange issues and boot problems.

Get the batteries off of the board and clean up any alkali on the board. I recommend anyPin NVRAM which is available at all your favorite pinball parts/electronics supply places or directly from my site here...

www.LockWhenLit.com/anyPin.htm

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#6 10 years ago

If you need a qualified repairman in your area, may I recommend Jim Palson at JT Amusements. He's down in Duncannon. Good tech.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#7 10 years ago

I second the Jim @ JT Amusements recommendation if there are any repairs you don't want to take on yourself. Great service work & knows his stuff.

Those IDC connectors only need to be replaced if there are issues or they are burnt.

If you DIY, check for any corrosion on the board after removing the battery holder. It will need to be cleaned up if the board got hit, then get a remote battery pack or nvram installed.

#8 10 years ago

I'm in agreement with the folks suggesting a good close inspection of the battery area. It doesn't take much to cause a problem.

...but to answer your question about the connectors wearing out: Yes they absolutely can wear out. Removing and plugging them back in is called a 'cycle'. Plating and retention do wear out, you lose the 'gas tight seal'. There's a wealth of information here at this link. Personally, if the act of cycling a connector has to be done more than once - I am probably going to repin the connector as it can't be trusted for reliability.
http://www.pinrepair.com/connect/

#9 10 years ago

I removed the battery tray tonight and sure enough, the negative solder connection had completely separated from not the solder joint, but the tray! The lead was literally in half, only making connection when the tray was secured by a zip tie. No sense at this point going too much further until I can make sure a new tray is used and the connection solid. Once that's done, I'll progress down the line to see what might be failing on its own and not related to this.

#10 10 years ago

Suggestion: mount the new tray remotely, off the board...if you are going to continue using alkaline batteries.

#11 10 years ago

Right, don't mount a new tray on the board!

All batteries need to be remotely mounted anytime you pull a MPU board for service.

#12 10 years ago

I'll be using lithium batteries but I will remotely mount the batteries at noted above. The corrosion WILL travel up the remote wires with time though. Just will take longer for us to notice.

#13 10 years ago

So I installed a remote battery holder today and that seems to be working fine now. There's no voltage craziness when I touch the tray or the wires.

I put everything back into the machine and I had the exact same problems. Same columns and rows out. Same coils not firing. I was messing with Dr. Pinball again, testing the auto-launcher and I could get the coil to fire by grounding the transistor as it told me to. Its solution: "Replace the I/O Board. Replace the CPU Board. Use the switch matrix to test switches." Well, thanks there Dr. Pinball. You're a real help.

BUT upon inspecting the coil on the auto-launcher, I must have wiggled a short. Everything works now. Every single flasher, column, row, and coil that wouldn't fire before works just fine now. I can't for the life of me figure out where the short is or why it would affect so many systems. The ONLY wires I touched were the auto-launcher wires, two of them.

Any ideas?

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