Power?

Just starting on my double barrel and wanted to see if she’d actually power up to see what mechanical issues I may have once I get the other things worked out.

So - this is a machine I’m taking over from someone who had previously done some work on. How much I do not know. Even found some aligator clips still in her

Anyhow the issue is I plug her in and I get nuttin. No sounds lights noises zilch.

It does look like someone has replaced the power cable and it appears to be installed correctly. There is also a small switch underneath.

I’ve attached photos of what I’ve got here. A newbie so just learning on the DVM

Any and all help on this is appreciated !

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Nothing. Very quiet.

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Looks like he replaced all fuses when he ran the new power cable?

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Again I’m a newbie but I don’t know if mine is wired that way. I don’t have the receptacle. And the power looks like the cord splits and one (ground) goes to a lug on the bottom board and the other (hot?) goes to the switch. From the switch the power lead then goes to the trsnformer and the other lead I take it goes back also to a ground ?

I’m not sure the transformer is working ?

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Ok sorry the hot is going to the swtich then once made it then goes to the transformer.

Are the certain readings I should be seeing on any/ all of the tabs on the transformer? I saw another post similar from Vid but it mentions colors of wires that I dont have??

Ok. In order blue - correct. Red - don’t know what that is? I have a sister cabinet and that one does not have that coil? Using a wood piece I move the green relay and now get some lights. Wow! Thanks!

Head lights and playfield lights all on. Yeah! I can activate the other relays. Get some scoring thru the relays. But no game start yet

It looks like some one had connected this thru the lock relay? I just took off the black electrical tape and it looks like the wire originally went to the coil But this “thing “ looks old. Like it was there originally somewhere in the lineup? I’m going to take it out of the loop for now and see?

Still getting some thing ..

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It is blowing the “low line” fuse.

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Yes. I have them in both. Oops. Ok I removed the lower one and now the upper one isn’t blowing Baby steps! Thank you! I can activate the start relay which in turn activates the large coil one the bank of relays

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Just no start game. No Flippers bumpers etc. but lights are on the PF and head I was getting some scoring thru the 30 point relay but it is just activating the 10 point relay in the cab now. No counter turning or chime now

Once back at the house this evening I’ll start checking per the link “HowardR”. After going thru the things Rolf had told me, then looking at the machine, then back to your messages, it’s starting to make more sense (at least I’m getting it. It just took time . Thanks and appreciate the patience.

Well I def got lost in the translation. Lol. But. When I manually lift the tab on the start trip relay I can push the start button and the coin relay activates and then motor turns. Nothing after that.

When I manually activate the start relay it seems to reset the bank of relays but the start trip stays down with the rest

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Hey! When I manually hold up the game over Relay I get the playfield to work. Flippers kickers etc.

So how do I get this bank in the right order?

I’m Traveling today but thinking - i took out the upper fuse when it was blowing. I wonder if I change that and remove the upper and place it in the lower- if this will have any effect?

Don’t really know if the bank of relays is working correctly or if there is something that’s supposed to keep it in the up mode so all works?

I have it in the “low line” and possibly it should be in the “normal line” ?

I guess since things work and now not blowing fuses, it may not make a difference?

Just wondering with all the individual relays working , how do I get them all to sing in unison?

Moved the fuse to the lower holder, no changes, all work the same as the upper fuse. So no difference there.

It was a joy just to see the flippers, pop bumpers and other playfield switches to work, so there is some progress here.

I may try to re-wire that old coil to see if that plays any part of the issue, but as it's not even installed on the sister cabinet, it may not matter. (I'll try clipping each lead to the first coil in line to check for impacts?) It was wired in front of the first coil.

What should the status be on this bank of relays..all up, all down? The large coil fires and raises them (when I activate the start relay) but not sure it's doing what it's supposed to do (as in keeping them up) or could one/some of the relays be bad and just not staying up or connected?

Any ideas or suggestions would be "greatly" appreciated, as my knowledge is minimal, but love to learn!

“Aligator Clipped” in that old coil. But no difference. So disconnected again.

Put the fuse back in the upper holder.

Questions:
Should the lock relay activate as soon as the machine is powered on like my others? (If so, what can I check to see why it isn’t?)

With the other relays working when I physically activate them, what could i check on to see why they’re not working in proper sequence (as in starting up correctly)

With everything almost working , I feel like I’m very close here to getting her up and running. (Hopefully).

Thanks YOPP, HowardR, and Rolf! Let's me know I'm not alone in this battle..lol If I could only buy you all a beer! (Come to Cleveland!)

1) I'll go back the "normal" fuse holder as I'm just plugged into a home receptacle and should be seeing 110 (I can check to verify)

2) When I switch on the power (small switch on bottom) it's still dead - even after hitting the start button the coin door. Only way to get the Lock Relay on (and lights) is to manually close it.

3) When I manually lift the tab on the Start Trip Relay I can push the start button and the coin relay activates and then motor turns. Nothing after that, but this makes me thing it's wired correctly and that works... (The Start Trip Relay drops as soon as I release it)

4) When I manually lift the tab on the Game Over Relay - to get the playfield working, if I release it, it drops.... I will check this with the power off this evening. (So sounds like that works correctly, I'm just physically making it open to allow play)

5) The Lock Relay does stay activated / pulled, until I turn off the power

I'll look over Posts #27 & 29 when I get home and report back. (Possibly one of these is stuck in the wrong position?)

I now I've said this a thousand times, but thank you all really. At least I have steps to take and things to look for. Without this help, I'm a blind squirrel looking for a lost nut!

OK, I hope all/some of this makes sense....

I tried to go thru the diagram - and closing in #1, that's just me hitting the start/replay button -so that works. What is #2? (Where?)

What/where ever it is, # 3 (Lock Relay) - does not close on it's own or automatically (I have to manually close it to get power on). I did notice I can also close the Coin Relay and I get power on as well.

On my earlier posts, I mention lifting up the relays (on the large bank of relays on the side) - in actuality, when I physically activate the "Start Relay", the large coil lifts all of these and they stay lifted / open. I can actually lift them individually "higher", such as the Game Over relay to get the playfield to work. I can also stick something under each one to have them drop / close. (When I drop the Game Over relay to the full closed position, it just makes the motor run continuous.)

When I manually lift (higher) the tab on the Start Trip Relay I can push the start button and the coin relay activates and then motor turns. Nothing after that, but this makes me thing it's wired correctly and that works... (The Start Trip Relay drops back to the open position as soon as I release it)

With or without power on / connected - these all stay up (open) as the large coil set them. (Just weird I can lift them a bit higher and get something to work.

Back to the diagram - again not knowing what/where #2 is, it does not close the Lock Relay or the Start Trip Relay.

The Coin Relay (#5) does stay open.

Where / what is # 6? Kickoff Switch?

#'s 7-8 & 9 - looks like the Lock Relay opens - but this doesn't happen, unless I force it to open

Does any of this make sense? Would a video help in any way?

Good comments from both, and I am a newbie - as in I've been adjusting the contacts by hand (small pliers, tweezers, etc) and carefully bending them, which has been working, but as HowardR says, I may be making things worse overall (on my other machines) This one I haven't really done much of either...so I will at least start cleaning and see where I can get. This thing has set for years, so that really could be the overall issue. I'll keep posting updates...I think it helps me mentally

Some good news. Cleaning of course never hurts. Worked mainly on the large bank.

Still don’t know what #2 or 6 is or where. But it may be part of the problem.

I can turn the power on thru the toggle switch. Still dead until I activate say the 25cent relay. Then I’m getting all lights and now the small moving target on the playfield (lost the flippers and pops and scoring but I’ll get back on that soon)

But at least I can then activate the start relay it raises all bank relays and it shows going to ball one on the head. I activate the outhole switch and it goes to ball 2 then again all the way thru 5 then once more and the game over relay drops (as it should ). To get this I had to “close” the top two switches on the game over relay. They open when it drops now . But when closed I get the moving target and ball / outhole working. (They were always open)

Weird thing is I have to manually activate / drop the start trip relay before the game over relay will re-set.

So back to the #2 and #6 switches. Could this be both the issue to get from the replay switch to the lock relay (#2) to get it started - and the issue to actually start a game (#6)??

After that I just need to get the flippers and pops / switches and scoring back. These worked yesterday when I’d lift the game over relay but not now.

Baby steps !! But seeing some progress as it’s going Thru the 5 ball seq and outhole mechanism working.

Aha! Weekend homework, love it! Thanks Rolf! This longer version made it much easier to understand (well, as much as I can anyhow). A couple of quick comments from the office before I head home to work on her again :

My Toggle Switch - the cable "G" (which I think is on the "power side") just goes to & from the transformer (no fuse in line, or other wires connected) See post # 1 for photos

I will look for the "J" and "L" - perhaps if you see those in one of my earlier photos, please identify them for me?

Understand #2 now, and yes it closes when I have credits shown (which while trouble shooting, sometimes things worked and then didn't, then I noticed I didn't have credits! lol Same as activating the ball drop/outhole - I needed to activate that to make it step thru the process)

When you say "The Lock-Relay is not (yet) pulling, the switch on the relay (green 3) is closed" - how is it not pulling in, if the switch is closed?

When you say "I press the Replay-Button and the Coin-Relay (green 4) must fire" - mine isn't listening to the "must" part as it does NOT fire (I can manually activate the Coin Relay and it'll start, so if I can get past that part?)

Now that you reminded me, the Kick-off switch - I see that. For some reason, I thought this was "open" and if you wanted the game over or to turn it off, you just tap that on the nail/rod at the bottom and it "closed" the switch, like a tilt switch? So I'll look at that as soon as I get home.

To answer some of the questions - when I activate the Coin Relay, I do see lights on, but it does not stay "in", but the Lock Relay pulls in, and stays in

ROLF - your comments on SAFETY should be applauded! Especially for Newbies, but old farts too! I'm in the Industrial Construction market, so I really appreciate and listen to those things!

Found #2 and it’s closed And understand with the rotation when it reaches zero the switch opens.

Photo ref - bottom switch -correct?

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Such a difference. Sitting here with those instructions. And the machine In front of me.

Found another blade bent wrong (I think from just being stored for so long with Some of the relays engaged?).

But can now start the power sequence with the replay button! It was the two top blades on the game over relay not closed when the relay is in the open position.

So now have gone thru and once I get a game started (with flippers pops and kickers back!) i can run it thru 5 balls and the game over relay drops.

So making great strides !

It won’t start another game unless I physically close the bottom two blades on the start trip relay. (Like something should cause that relay to close when either a game over or a new game start of some sort?

Could it be another one of the blades on that relay is open/Closed when it shouldn’t be? If I close those two bottom ones while it’s in the up position the motor runs continuous so again thinking something should trip this start trip relay?

Almost there !

Went through the entire playfield cleaning and checking switches. Everything seems to work. The small roll over targets are quite touchy. I adjusted while the PF was lifted up on the brace but when I’d set it down one would go off almost continuous , so had to readjust.

Not getting any scoring or chimes (it does chime when the large relay bank resets). So not sure here??

Besides it not directly starting this is amazing how far it’s came already.

90% of the rubbers are gone so i May clean off the playfield a bit and put those on. It’s getting there !

Check on that as far as priorities.

Really just started on this one and wanted to see what works. Then just getting power thru all the switches and relays to get it to an actual game mode - could not have done it without the help I’ve received here. Amazing peeps !

But your right my main focus needs to stay on getting the start trip relay in order

Per Rolf’s info item #3 - the only way I can get a game going is if I touch the left lower blade then the right lower blade (with slight delay between them, why?) to their cooresponding switch blades to momentarily close them. This is while the relay is in the up position and the 3 sets of switches on top are closed

If i lower the relay -it will not start In this mode. it fully closes the bottom 2 switches . In that lowered mode the upper 3 switches open. (The upper right - has to be closed for the replay button to work). If I make the upper norm closed in the lower position it will also stay closed in the upper as well. (Just commenting ).

So If in lower mode as described making the upper right nc (touching ) it will start but the motor runs continuous. I have the lift the relay tab up to stop it

I then only need to momentarily touch the right blade only (??). Trying all diff angles to see if one of these switches is set wrong. (Or perhaps another relay not feeding this one correctly )

Once I get a game started tho it’s game on! (For a 1961 model!)

Sorry when I started at the #3 above - that was with power on thru the replay button. It gets me there, but can’t start a game - then my process as listed. (Wanted to clarify there is progress !). Lol

Oh thanks Rolf!

Ok- with power already on and last game played (as example). I hit the replay button and the motor turns each time but it does not go to start up with a ball 1

To get that I have to close the bottom two blades on the start trip relay.
That resets the hole bank and I’m ready to go.

Just can’t get past this reset issue

The coin relay does pull when I push the replay button.

The 2nd coin relay goes off the first time I hit the replay button. If that helps