Delete. thanks for all of the advice. I will call paypal and just squash it.
(Topic ID: 290629)
Hopkins, MN
Total scam. Do nothing with this person, call PayPal and tell them to cancel whatever transaction was already done.
Also, I would call your local police department for help. They will be familiar with the various ways the scams are run.
Quoted from No_Pickles:Total scam. Do nothing with this person, call PayPal and tell them to cancel whatever transaction was already done.
There ya go! Cancel the transaction. Do not just send them money back. Total scam!!
I don’t know the specifics, but most likely the money you were sent was based off a fraudulent checking account. The money is not good, but it will take the bank several weeks to determine that.
In the meanwhile, you give an equivalent amount to the scammer of your own money, just to find out in 2 or 3 weeks that the initial transfer they gave you gets pulled.
Quoted from LTG:No idea what the scam is.
Probably a variation of an overpayment scam.
Someone sends you money you don't expect. The scammer demands a refund from you. Then after you send the "refund" as a separate transaction, the scammer reports the original transaction as fraud or whatever and gets it reversed.
So, you're out both the money from the original transaction, as well as the "refund" you initiated from your end.
PayPal will charge you fees to refund the money. Good luck getting any help out of PayPal. Pool guys are walking around with a lot of extra money these days.
Just tell him the whole thing seemed really strange and suspicious so you’ve called the police to have things checked out, and ask him for his full name and address. You’ll never hear from him again and the fraudulent $ will be removed at some point. The situation resolves itself.
My pool guy doubles as a real estate developer when he’s not trading in the stock market or facilitating high volume bullion transactions.
The pool cleaning gig is just a side job that allows him to buy high end luxury items.
All joking aside, this sounds like a total scam to me.
Like others have already said, you refund the money and later find out the money he sent sent was funded on a bunk credit card or he disputes it and funds get taken out of your account at a later date.
Quoted from rtotans:So this newer member wanted to buy 2 games from me, He tells me i will pay cash for both games. so apparently he sells a game on his own and for some strange reason he has this third person party send me friends and family cash 30 minutes before he gets here for one of the games. He gets here and decides not to buy either game .One of the games was near mint condition. He's making weak excuses, There's pretty much nothing wrong with this game.. Its pretty much as advertised. So the 2nd game he does the same thing with. granted the 2nd game is almost 35 years old-40 years old, but for the age must better then average. Apparently he says its just like the one he has. ( and he wanted to upgrade and have a better looking one that he already owns) I said thats fine you changed your mind after seeing the game, but I said you must be the pickest person i've ever seen because the one game is as close to mint as possible.The 2nd game is amost 40 years old and thats in must better condition then most. he wants me to return the pay pal friends and famly that this 3rd party sends me. Are there any scams that people know of with this type of transaction? For a person to drive hours away and not buy the game and not purchase it, especially after said he would buy both game in cash, is very suspect. I need some help on this. I'm afraid if I refund the money its part of some scam. He's apprently some pool guy, who is now a buyer and seller of pinbal games with a pinball business who's only been on pinside for a few months. Several things isn't adding up. I need help on this one. thanks. PS... I said then just buy the one game in cash that's in near mint condition. He decides no.
Yeah, scam. Cancel the transaction. DO NOT REFUND. Let the cancellation take care of it.
More concerning if it is a scammer YOU LET HIM IN YOUR HOUSE. Hopefully this isn't now a thing with scammers we all have to worry about... But something to consider.
If he came to your house and that ended the way it did I'd be taking a picture of his license place and vehicle before he left.
Quoted from PinballSTAR:More concerning if it is a scammer YOU LET HIM IN YOUR HOUSE. Hopefully this isn't now a thing with scammers we all have to worry about... But something to consider.
If he came to your house and that ended the way it did I'd be taking a picture of his license place and vehicle before he left.
Security cameras are your friend.
I have 2 720p units trained at the driveway.
Could be a scam, but most don't involve actual face to face visits. That's too risky for most electronic payment scammers. I mean, I've never had my Nigerian Prince visit my home.
If you can cancel the transaction that's great. If you refund it back to the same account it came from, I doubt you'll have any trouble with it and there is a clear trail of money if there are any questions asked.
If he is a new member like you said, maybe he's just a little clumsy about purchases, we all were at one point.
Definitely don't call him out here unless you see real evidence of fraud. No reason to tarnish someone's rep without evidence.
Quoted from Black_Knight:Could be a scam, but most don't involve actual face to face visits. That's too risky for most electronic payment scammers. I mean, I've never had my Nigerian Prince visit my home.
If you can cancel the transaction that's great. If you refund it back to the same account it came from, I doubt you'll have any trouble with it and there is a clear trail of money if there are any questions asked.
If he is a new member like you said, maybe he's just a little clumsy about purchases, we all were at one point.
Definitely don't call him out here unless you see real evidence of fraud. No reason to tarnish someone's rep without evidence.
Gee, you don't see any issue with the payment coming from a 3rd party? 95% suspicious, 5% plausible.
................................
This was before the O.P. decided to let us know the Paypal was only a deposit, not the whole selling price. Lots of new details have emerged.
75% plausible.
You should have asked to take a picture of his ID front and back and taken a picture of his vehicle and plate. Then go on from there.
Also, shouldn’t have even messed around with PayPal, it’s a joke and so convoluted/risky. Zero protection for you, not to mention the tax forms they will be sending out when you cross a threshold dollar amount. Just get away from PayPal, all of this would have been a non issue if you hadn’t used PayPal.
The only reason PayPal was used was a deposit. I won’t use his name unless I know for sure it’s fraud.
Quoted from Black_Knight:If you refund it back to the same account it came from, I doubt you'll have any trouble
Just make sure not to refund as a new/separate transaction. As in, don't click "send payment".
pasted_image (resized).pngDoesn’t help he has a California address. He said he moved here a few months ago. But apparently he buys and sell pinball game’s now amongst other businesses. Can a rookie make that mistake sure... someone who is selling game’s , and a new pinsider very strange to make that mistake. I told him flat out something doesn’t feel right. He tells me he will pay cash then 30 minutes before he gets here he sells his game ( which is a possibility because he ended up 2 hours later) then tells this person to send me PayPal. I said you are the pickiest person I’ve ever seen as we all know we seen picky people with pinball games. We all know them. Nothing wrong with that... but this guy takes the cake. when he said no to the one game , I said just pay me cash for the other game and we will take care of that other PayPal issue. He still decides no. Which was strange because it was an amazing deal! That’s why he apparently drove all the way here. He had a rented truck. I did take a pic of it. But it probably doesn’t help. I also got a pic of his ID but it’s from California and who knows if it’s real.
Quoted from rtotans:Doesn’t help he has a California address. He said he moved here a few months ago. But apparently he buys and sell pinball game’s now amongst other businesses. Can a rookie make that mistake sure... someone who is selling game’s , and a new pinsider very strange to make that mistake. I told him flat out something doesn’t feel right. He tells me he will pay cash then 30 minutes before he gets here he sells his game ( which is a possibility because he ended up 2 hours later) then tells this person to send me PayPal. I said you are the pickiest person I’ve ever seen as we all know we seen picky people with pinball games. We all know them. Nothing wrong with that... but this guy takes the cake. when he said no to the one game , I said just pay me cash for the other game and we will take care of that other PayPal issue. He still decides no. Which was strange because it was an amazing deal! That’s why he apparently drove all the way here. He had a rented truck. I did take a pic of it. But it probably doesn’t help. I also got a pic of his ID but it’s from California and who knows if it’s real.
You left out that very important piece in your original post that the Paypal payment was ONLY a deposit.
So, how much did you actually get in deposit from Paypal? Couple hundo? If so, this is just a shitty transaction gone wrong.
He never had cash in the 1st place. The sub sequential sale was to cover the price of both machines. When he finds out the other buyer only sent a deposit, he realizes the whole thing has blown up and HAS to pass on both. He played the money game and lost.
I actually did this 25 years ago on a load of arcade games. Pre sold 3 games and collected the cash up front and promised everyone their games in two weeks. I brought up 28 games from Little Rock to Chicago. My only cost was gas, the rental truck, and an airline ticket.
Keep the PayPal 200 deposit payment, not the 4500 third party PayPal payment. Buyer backed out and may have caused you a lost sale to another potential customer. Seems like he wasted a bit of your time too. As soon as people commit and give a deposit then they know what that entails.
Quoted from ForceFlow:Just make sure not to refund as a new/separate transaction. As in, don't click "send payment".[quoted image]
I know there is a technical difference in how the money goes back, but what scammer would send money from an account to have it sent back to the same account. My point was this isn't a normal scammy kind of action, one would normally send it to a different account.
Also using the same accounts would make it easy to explain to paypal if you had to dispute it. Not perfect, but not like wiring money to a rando either.
I've never canceled a F&F transaction, only ones with cc's, does paypal even give you that option?
Showing up personally with a truck is not the normal actions of a scammer, so although this is weird, it's not super weird.
Quoted from PinRob:Keep the PayPal deposit payment, buyer backed out and may have caused you a lost sale to another potential customer. Seems like he wasted a bit of your time too. And if it ends up being a scam PayPal will yank the $, if not you keep it. As soon as people commit and give a deposit then they know what that entails.
The guy showed up with a truck and inspected the machines. He made a good faith effort, you don't keep the deposit.
Quoted from Pinphila:Who is this? I dont think naming the pinsider hurts here. Lets see if others come to his defense.
Not cool. There has been no loss here or any real evidence of a scam, so leave him be. If people posted every person and transaction that went sideways, this forum would be filled to the brim.
If the situation changes then sure, warn others about him, but right now there is nothing but speculation.
And no it wasn't me or anyone I know.
Green dollar bills cash on the glass is the only way
sounds like there is some sort of scam going on - be very careful how you proceed.
before you refund, be 100% certain that his cash is in your account - I would call Paypal for advice
Very scammy.
Tell him you'll open a dispute with Paypal as you don't trust the situation ... you can very easily get burned by the situation.
The 3rd party may take several months to "dispute" the charges with their credit card. I'm not sure that even in a "issue refund" button situation you 100% sure.
The only way to get protected (if that) is to get Paypal involved.
Quoted from Black_Knight:but what scammer would send money from an account to have it sent back to the same account
Who knows. That doesn't automatically mean it isn't a scam.
Quoted from Black_Knight:I've never canceled a F&F transaction, only ones with cc's, does paypal even give you that option?
There is a refund button.
pasted_image (resized).pngNot a scam.
Your description did not match his expectation and he did not feel comfortable moving forward with both machines .. ??
Refund his deposit.
My .02
Yeah I'd hit the refund button and move on with your life.
Chalk it up to one of the many bizarre experiences you'll have if you are buying/selling pinball machines for any length of time.
No need to out him at this point but I'd also let the mods know so they can keep an eye on the "buyer."
Hello gentlemen, this is Chris/radiomoz on pinside. I just wanted to introduce myself. I moved here from Los Ángeles 2 years ago and yes I’m new to the pin world. Yes i own a swimming pool company and I do pinball for fun. I just want to confirm that the transaction is legitimate. The games were not up to my personal standards and decided to pass. I’m an honest guy and have a highly respected pinsider that can back me up if need be. If there’s other concerns, I would like to Address them privately with rick.
Quoted from radiomoz:Hello gentlemen, this is Chris/radiomoz on pinside. I just wanted to introduce myself. I moved here from Los Ángeles 2 years ago and yes I’m new to the pin world. Yes i own a swimming pool company and I do pinball for fun. I just want to confirm that the transaction is legitimate. The games were not up to my personal standards and decided to pass. I’m an honest guy and have a highly respected pinsider that can back me up if need be. If there’s other concerns, I would like to Address them privately with rick.
I think you can understand how the third party paypal business would throw somebody off. Most people just don't want to deal with that shit.
As soon as I hear "so and so owes me money so now so and so will pay you money" I start getting worried. Always hated the "debt transfer" even 35 years ago on the playground!
Somebody is ALWAYS trying to stick you with the deadbeat!
Quoted from radiomoz:Hello gentlemen, this is Chris/radiomoz on pinside. I just wanted to introduce myself. I moved here from Los Ángeles 2 years ago and yes I’m new to the pin world. Yes i own a swimming pool company and I do pinball for fun. I just want to confirm that the transaction is legitimate. The games were not up to my personal standards and decided to pass. I’m an honest guy and have a highly respected pinsider that can back me up if need be. If there’s other concerns, I would like to Address them privately with rick.
figured it was fine. everyone please carry on now.
I have businesses with paypal accounts and my personal paypal. I have payed out of all accounts including paying for 1 machine out of 3 different accounts.
Sana'a
It's a scam.
No one on earth would give you a deposit from another person's 3rd party account.
Do not refund the money.
You broke Paypal's rules by using Friends and Family to accept money from a stranger
You broke common sense rule, never get into a payment transaction involving a 3rd party
You broke Pinball's #1 rule: NEVER ACCEPT PAYPAL FOR PAYMENT ON A PINBALL MACHINE
Quoted from radiomoz:I just want to confirm that the transaction is legitimate.
How exactly are you confirming this?
Quoted from radiomoz:I’m an honest guy and have a highly respected pinsider that can back me up if need be.
Who is this "highly respected Pinsider" exactly?
Who's 3rd party Paypal account did you use, and why did you not just use your own?
Quoted from rtotans:So this newer member wanted to buy 2 games from me, He tells me i will pay cash for both games. so apparently he sells a game on his own and for some strange reason he has this third person party send me friends and family cash 30 minutes before he gets here for one of the games. He gets here and decides not to buy either game .One of the games was near mint condition. He's making weak excuses, There's pretty much nothing wrong with this game.. Its pretty much as advertised. So the 2nd game he does the same thing with. granted the 2nd game is almost 35 years old-40 years old, but for the age must better then average. Apparently he says its just like the one he has. ( and he wanted to upgrade and have a better looking one that he already owns) I said thats fine you changed your mind after seeing the game, but I said you must be the pickest person i've ever seen because the one game is as close to mint as possible.The 2nd game is amost 40 years old and thats in must better condition then most. he wants me to return the pay pal friends and famly that this 3rd party sends me. Are there any scams that people know of with this type of transaction? For a person to drive hours away and not buy the game and not purchase it, especially after said he would buy both game in cash, is very suspect. I need some help on this. I'm afraid if I refund the money its part of some scam. He's apprently some pool guy, who is now a buyer and seller of pinbal games with a pinball business who's only been on pinside for a few months. Several things isn't adding up. I need help on this one. thanks. PS... I said then just buy the one game in cash that's in near mint condition. He decides no.
I think part of your problem is trying to get $5k for a Dracula with pretty bad insert wear.
I would have walked as well.
This is a scam, plain, pure and simple. You are "b", you receive a last minute deposit from "a" whoever that is, "c" the customer comes, makes excuses for not buying the games, and wants you to send money to "c" as a quote unquote refund, which its not. Then later "a's" money disappears and you are out the full amount with no recourse. Use your head. This is a straight out RIP off.
Edit:
Just read through the comments and it looks like it was legit. I made a few mistakes like asking to use PayPal when I first started collecting so I can relate. Good to be picky on a 5k BSD. Hope the issue can be resolved appropriately.
Quoted from gdonovan:Security cameras are your friend.
I have 2 720p units trained at the driveway.
I have 11 cameras on my house.
Quoted from vid1900:Who is this "highly respected Pinsider" exactly?
There are NO highly respected pinsiders...If we had any self-respect, we wouldn't be here.
Quoted from woody76:I think part of your problem is trying to get $5k for a Dracula with pretty bad insert wear.
I would have walked as well.
First of all not even the right game.
Quoted from woody76:I have businesses with paypal accounts and my personal paypal. I have payed out of all accounts including paying for 1 machine out of 3 different accounts
This is the problem ^
This might work for you woody but newbies get scammed all day long on paypal. We(pinside) need to stop saying it's alright to use PayPal. It isn't scam proof. Listen to Vid at all times!
Wait is he just gave you a deposit? Not the full amount? How much was it? You have to be insane to go to someone’s house just to scam someone out of their deposit. Why wouldn’t he just have sent you the deposit and then just said “sorry something came up I can’t make it please return the deposit.”?Give the man his money back!
No he sent $200 depost to hold 2 days before hand. Then 30 minutes before he gets here he tells me that he had this other guy send me $4500 from the third party account. . I said I will only accept cash before this and he agreed. and he agreed. I never accept paypal. I fight anxiety my entire life. It gives me to much stress. So I always make it stated ahead of time.. cash only. he knew and he accepted
I wouldn't care about losing $200. I would lose sleep over it! However $4500 I would!
I have no issue with him not buying games. I get it! He seems like a real nice guy. It was Too many red flags. ( It could all be coincidenses) I'm sure it might be fine....I just needed advice. I will try and call paypal.
WITH $4500 AT STAKE IN PAYPAL...I WILL NOT RUSH MY DECISION.
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