It's not specific to JJP, see the TNA thread. I'm really not concerned about this myself, since the damage was easily hidden with a post swap. Life is too short to freak out about this, and the game is so fun to play that it's hard to be upset about any of it.

I suggest changing the title of this thread:

1. Remove mention of "dimples" as that is a standard unavoidable pinball issue.
2. Replace "star" with "sling" as the default sling posts are the ones we're discussing, right?

I recommend everyone who is hysterical about this issue to sell their game immediately. Demand is high. Move on and don't let it trouble you.

Meanwhile, I'm going to keep playing mine. With the plays my wife and I put on it daily I fully expect it to look like that routed machine at some point.
It's sure as shootin' not going to hamper my enjoyment.

To their credit, if they glued a metal washer to the playfield you can be certain that sucker is not going to chip.

Sell your damn machine. Please.

Yes, it sucks this is happening. Obviously none of us want the playfields to chip. The reality is that it's happening, and it's not unique to JJP.

Ask yourself the following questions:

1. Do you love playing your game? (If not, sell it as there are people who want to.)
2. Do you want JJP to succeed?

In my view, this whole thread ought to be drained. All it's doing is whipping people into a frenzy and trying to get a mass riot going against JJP, which is going to hurt them and ultimately, ourselves.

Yes this situation sucks. Is covering the damage with wider posts or washers a reasonable solution? I say that it is.

No. Just a customer like everyone else.

Green star posts look pretty sweet to cover it on the CE. This machine is using the rubber washers I believe.
454F90A9-40D7-4930-9073-7BD71AA45D90.jpegBD11578B-5B77-4A4F-A359-7A1CBCF6D5A8.jpeg

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I am trying a few things

1 - I am trying double star posts, where the sling channel is lower than the single star post. See the comparison the pinballlife folks helpfully provided.
2 - If I still get escaped sling kickers, I will then remove the washers and do the mylar discs. For now I’d like to keep them, as I feel the padding is a positive thing.

F745D908-1AA9-4F86-8C5C-09CDD1B865D3 (resized).jpeg

The gummy ones from Amazon.

Unless PinballLife puts them on a one hour flight to me, no. When they arrive I will report.

Mine actually are not reacting yet, and I'm sticking with them for a while. The TNA folks had some chemical reaction issues.

Yes.

For some reason the link to my original order now goes to a stainless steel washer which I did not use.

They were "Silicone Water Pipe Connector Seal Ring Gasket Washer 18x8x2.5mm (Pack of 40)"

Waiting for the double posts to arrive. I will line them up with the originals (bare) and the single stars (washered) so we can see how they compare height wise.

Well for me, they aren't. The TNA folks reported it. Maybe they used a different product.

I've had a half dozen sling escapes and two balls caught in the slings since I did it. I won't know if it works until they arrive, so chill!

My take is that anything is going to leave indentations. The clear is soft and the effect is the same depth as a ball dimple.

Those posts take a lot of shock from the repeated violent vibrations.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

All I know is, the depressions and the chipping are 100% hidden under the star posts so I am really not as twisted about this as the rest of the thread seems to be.

My only concern is solving the escaped kickers on the slings because that's annoying AF. Hoping the lower position on the double star posts will solve it, if not I will try different rings.

I'm using Titans. Just ordered some PerfectPlay and will try those. I never saw the escapes until the post mod.

Obviously

That's a CE not an LE! Wow, surprised to see a CE on location.

Ok, I got my double star posts. I compared the height with the originals.

You can see here: original post, double star with silcone washer, and star with silicone washer. The channel on the double star is almost perfectly where the original post channel was.

I am pretty happy with this and hopefully this is case closed.

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Argh can’t we let this topic rest? The solutions are well documented at this point.

All I wanted to do with that guide was to help people find their fixes quickly so they could enjoy this stellar game...and hopefully reduce repeat posts by pulling together the list in one place.

I do worry that it gives an unfair impression to people that you're going to see ALL the problems on the list, even though many of them are definitely one-offs.

So yeah, maybe in the end it was a bad idea. Hopefully it helped a few people and/or averted a few support calls.

So far I've had no hammer escapes since switching to the lower slot on double star posts+silicone washers.
Will update if that changes but I'm optimistic it's fixed.

I had to adjust the leaf holders a bit after the star posts, after that, yes.

I've been saying that for a while

The posts are like 70 cents. Buy spares. Worry less.

Yes

Forks shouldn't move at all when plunged. Prop the playfield hooks as already documented. Easy fix.

Yeah sometimes doing that still doesn't give you enough clearance though.

Well, shit. Ok, I guess different rubbers next.

I got some translucent “perfect play” ones from I think Pinball Life.

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This game gets a LOT of love in our house. At our current rate I expect to hit 10k plays by the end of the year, which means it has paid for itself.

My wife puts in a lot of time on it. If I have to clean it or something, I have to schedule those events when she’s at work.

I am really gald she loves it like I do. It has made pinball purchases easier to make.

I seriously hate to add to this thread because it’s already a shitshow, but...

My wife had a simple question while discussing the chipping issue. “Why don’t they clear-bra it like cars?”

That...actually struck me as a really good idea. Those things are thick, durable, and would probably affect gameplay less than a “floating” playfield protector would. In fact, it’s not all that different from the mylars already in place.

Is this a thing anyone has ever tried in pinball? Bad idea?

And NO Joseph, please do not take this as a suggestion that you strip your playfield and start applying XPEL to it.

The playfield protector is not adhered to the art like a clear bra would be. Also it looks like different material; clear bra stuff is a thick adhesive plastic and can be “healed” with heat where the playfield protector looks like a loose sheet of something.

I’m genuinely curious how a clearbra’d playfield would play. I certainly love the stuff on the front of my car.

Yeah on a car it can be removed and replaced without damaging the clear. However, the removal requires steam which is not something that makes a pin happy.

I got an escaped sling hammer on my double stars last night w/ titans. I’ve put on the perfect plays and we’ll see how they do.

I have resisted turning down the slings. I feel like sling power and flipper strengths are part of the designer's "vision" for how the game should play, and I really don't like to mess with that if I can help it.

Well it's no secret Ghostbusters is a complete mess.

POTC was crafted with love.

PerfectPlays were looking good. THey are wearing well and seem to hold less dirt!

But then I got a sling escape . Back to the drawing board.

Still like em though.

No, but when I installed it I made sure the posts were as far from the lane as possible for this reason.

I would assume positive intent here. All the JJP folks have been nothing but helpful to me. They want us to enjoy their games.

Everyone seriously needs to calm down in this thread. Jeez.

They’ve made a very reasonable effort to make it right. It’s not realistic to expect more than this.

I really hope as people get their kits this thread cools off and people go enjoy their games. Or sell them. Lots of people want them if this issue is such an outrage.

You don't appear to own this machine, so are you just here to stir the pot?

This has been my feeling about the whole thing. You've expressed it far better than I did.

Just asking, do you guys ever play the game or just seek out things to obsess about?

If you keep looking for problems, you're going to keep finding them.

I advise one of two courses of action:

1. Play the game. Get the spare playfield, and don't let any blemish, scuff, chip or crack bother you.
2. Sell it. It will be snapped up quickly and you'll have a stressor out of your life.

As a fan of playing the game, I suggest #1.

Plus technology may improve by the time you want to swap it.

This whole thread has gone totally batshit crazy.

harryhoudini you bought a used (and ROUTED) machine - the fact you’re getting any support AT ALL is a gift. And you want to rally the pitchforks and start a class action lawsuit?

Look, obviously the chipping sucks and none of us want this to happen to our machines. But let’s be reasonable people about this.

Is it reasonable to expect them to order POTC parts, build up fully populated playfields, and ship them out for swaps? Absolutely not. I hate to use a cargument, but that’s like expecting Honda to send you an entirely new car because of a scratch on a door.

When the cost of producing and shipping a thing is high, the remedy is going to be repair rather than replacement. That’s just reality folks.

So far I think JJP has been extremely reasonable in addressing this. They put out a service bulletin on the issue, put out parts to work around it, and as an extra measure have offered discounted playfields to those who request them. In my view they’ve done everything they can do.

These machines are toys. They are not life or death, nor will they stay perfect and pristine forever. The purpose of them is to add joy to your life. Period. That is literally what they are designed to do. If you’re stressing out and obsessing about issues, friggin sell the thing and get it out of your life! Prices on POTC are still high and you’ll get a good return. Find something else where the happiness/stress ratio works better for you.

When things go wrong - and inevitably things do from time to time, this is pinball - being reasonable about it will get you better results than going full aggro outrage.

Have some empathy and common sense.

You don’t see it as toxic already?? I sure do, which is what moved me to post. I knew I’d get downvotes from the deranged pitchfork mob here. I did it anyway because someone has to stand up for common sense.

The notion that JJP is "getting away with shit" as if they engineered this intentionally and are scheming to ruin your experience is what I take issue with.

If you have empathy and see the other side of the issue you will see that they are doing what they can to do right by their customers.

Fair enough. I'll probably re-drain the thread and ignore the ringleaders hell-bent on spreading negativity.

Enjoy your outrage! I'll enjoy my games.

So...basically it's exactly as I said all along.

- Full populated playfield swaps are NOT reasonable (this would be way too costly)
- The existing offer for a discounted playfield is a reasonable compromise
- Getting ANY offer/support as a second owner (and therefore out of warranty) is a gift from JJP.

Put the post kit in and forget about it, or if you can't deal sell the game.

I'll be downvoted (again) for this, but there's a reality factor in play here that many people in this thread are ignoring.

Apologies, it must have been someone else demanding that in the thread and I lumped it in erroneously.

I genuinely want to know, what IS a fair solution in your view? What would satisfy you?

About those playfields and the fingernail test - if I were to get one (I haven't ordered one yet, but might) I'd store it somewhere flat for a year or more. Let it cure and cure and cure some more.

And that is exactly why I'm against torches and pitchforks for JJP. They got caught in this like everyone did, and they are at least providing a workaround and replacement program.

No ties. I'm just empathetic. They are a growing business, and setbacks like this can be catastrophic.

If the playfield was sanding off everywhere, I'd be more upset. So far it's localized to the posts which can be hidden from view, so I'm ok with it. Not thrilled mind you, obviously all we want solid playfields, but I can deal.

I honestly believe the folks at JJP want to do right by their customers and want them to be happy.
I do believe their playfield offer is a reasonable one, but we disagree on that point and that's fine.

I also think you catch more flies with honey than with legal threats (which immediately shut any company down and put them into defense mode.)

I guess the impedance mismatch here is that I am ok "meeting them halfway" because I want them to keep making great pinball machines. Not everyone in the thread is. I do respect your opinions and emotions on the issue.

I strongly suspect the $550 playfield offer is cost. If they were to give those free, to all 1000 buyers, that is a $550k loss.

I'm sure we all agree what a great game POTC is, otherwise everyone would be dumping them and moving on.
Do you want to make the best pinball game made in the last decade a complete financial failure for them?

Well, I was one of those - I voted (honestly) "had chipping, covered with posts."

And then I bought two Wonkas, so...

Eh, it’s not a huge stressor for me so yeah I guess I do.

I’m a JJP zealot for trying to get people to put down the pitchforks and use some logic, heh. OK. So be it.

Another pinball friend emailed me today and said I’ll never win over the pinside lynch mob. He’s right.
This thread is the equivalent of a political rally, bunch of people shouting loudly without using their heads.

So let's say for argument's sake there were 1000 SEs in the world and you made rocks for all of them. You took the wife out to a great dinner and felt positive about your success. The customers love them.

Then suddenly, people start noticing one of the mounts cracking. It's in an out of the way place, and due to the texture on the piece you really don't even notice the crack after fixing it with a dab of super glue. Unfortunate, but not the end of the world for most people.

Someone decides this is an outrage and they want a full new replacement piece. You'd probably be willing to do that, but instead of approaching you directly, Spartacus decides to make multiple posts about it, calling for community outrage and even threatening legal action.

Now what? You can't help the original person any more because he's telling his mob everything you say. What would you do?

I was relaying all this drama to a non-pinball friend and they had a very astute observation.

"it's darkly amazing to me how much effort people will put into organizing 'outrage' against a pinball arcade machine defect when we have so many more important causes in this world."

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Honestly at this point I'm just trying to add some levity

A very balanced response, IMO. And yes, back to pinball!

You know, you're right. (not sarcasm.)

I got into this forum intending to be a positive member and I may have gotten a bit too snarky WRT this issue.

I'm going to butt out of this thread...again.

I do sincerely hope everyone is able to make peace with the playfield situation - one way or another - and get back to enjoying this amazing game. Hopefully one day soon our POTC chatter is about strategies to reach and defeat the "Break the Curse" wizard mode.

I am, I have, and honestly I apologize to everyone on the thread.

These machines do represent substantial investments for all of us.
The chipping is real, and it sucks for everyone involved (including the manufacturers.)

I was able to get over it since mine was hideable with star posts, but others might not be so lucky if their damage is worse.

My initial goal with my protests was to try and encourage a spirit of compromise. I'm sorry that I've strayed from that.

I do hope the issues are resolved in a way that bring everyone peace and enjoyment with their machines.

My thinking on that is that doing the parts swap to the new playfield is an event for years down the road. Surely by then the clear is hardened and cured.

My plan would be to store it flat in climate-controlled conditions and do the fingernail test a year or so in the future.

I do think we are trending up in that regard. Wonka worked out of the box perfect for me and (I believe) for most. I haven't heard many OOTB mechanical issues.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I was referring to them coming out of the box -mechanically- better. Mine worked without a single tweak OOTB which has been the case for most people based on the low volume of tech threads on Wonka.

I wasn't speaking to the playfields, which is admittedly dumb in a playfield complaint thread.

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if all this was due to rushing things into production without enough cure time.

I remember seeing a Stern factory video with racks of playfields stored flat, waiting for their cure date.

What I used:

https://www.pinballlife.com/plastic-translucent-double-star-posts-1-116-tall.html

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DKKR3XI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00

You will have to adjust the leaf holders for the sling switches slightly after doing this, as they won't be reponsive after the switch.

This hid the problem and put it out of my mind. I hope it does for you as well.

I only did this for the slingshots (all 3 posts on each.)

The other posts are not damaged, for me.

Can you guys keep politics out of our pinball fun?

I come here to escape that stuff.

I don’t think it had to do with profitability. I’m sure that was thought out well in advance of production.

My theory is simple. People pulled orders due to the mech nerfs. Parts orders were reduced accordingly. The game hit the street and surprise! It’s fantastic even with the changes. Suddenly everyone wants one but the parts orders require lead time and minimum quantities so the ship has sailed. So to speak.

That’s my take anyway. Not based on anything but speculation.

It's a tough job, predicting the future.

Predict too high and you've lost a bunch of money on inventory you can't sell.
Predict too low and you're leaving money on the table with unmet demand.

Given the high cost, parts turnaround and assembly time of pinball...it's a tough racket.

This is what I've been saying all along. By going ballistic and making legal threats, the well is now poisoned and goodwill is out the window.
I've been pleading all along for people to be logical, rational and reasonable. All it got me was a ton of downvotes.

Thanks Harry for the recap.

Yes I said all those things. Yes I apologized and attempted to de escalate. A couple people approached me privately to say my words made them feel like their issues were unimportant.

Let me be clear - chipping sucks and none of us are happy about it. In my personal case it was easy to hide under posts so I was able to put it behind me.

I am empathetic to the folks who have it worse. I am also empathetic to the position this puts JJP in.

No, I haven’t gone hunting for more problems. If I don’t see them during gameplay, I would rather not know about them!

I did examine things when I replaced the rubber for chapter select. It was fine. So far only the sling posts have the issue. I am seeing a bit of wear on the tortuga hole edge which I consider expected at this play count (around 3200 I think.)

I bought cliffys to cover it but haven’t installed yet. Not crazy about the look.

Sterns volumes are much higher than JJP.

Also, in subsequent releases they explicitly called out ghosting inserts as normal and not warranty fixes.

If you can’t see it while playing...isn’t it better to not know about it at all?

Near as I can figure, that means sitting out of pinball entirely until this gets sorted out. I’d rather play now and deal with the issues later.

And yet, with a mint NOS playfield on standby, any concern over that wear could be resolved N years down the road, no?

Stand down. Do NOT start obsessing and ironing your playfield. This is not a thing you need to worry about.

Trust me, for your own good.

The way I see it you have options. What you do depends on whether or not you intend to keep the machine forever or not, how many plays you plan to put on it, how much time or money you plan to put into it, and how upset you are with the current state.

Consider that all playfields do wear given enough time and use.

If you ever think you will sell, just store it safely and plan on making it an incentive for a future buyer. Play the hell out of it and don’t let wear or chipping worry you in the slightest, knowing it can always be repaired later.

If you don’t think you will sell, the decision is whether to repair now or to repair later, with a secondary decision of learn to do it yourself or throw money at the problem and pay someone.

If it were me I’d defer the repair until the playfield is an absolute wreck, but I haven’t seen your current situation nor can I assess how important the current look and feel is to you.

That really is stunning and beautiful without all the parts on it. Wow!