(Topic ID: 242867)

PoTC - Who has playfield cracking & wear around sling posts?


By harryhoudini

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 2,984 posts
  • 217 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 days ago by MarZ_78
  • Topic is favorited by 63 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“What kind of issues are you seeing?”

  • I have visible dimples but no chipping 45 votes
    22%
  • I can see chipping but haven't done anything yet 67 votes
    33%
  • I can see chipping and installed mylar, washer and/or larger star post 30 votes
    15%
  • My playfield looks fine (but I haven't removed the star posts) 31 votes
    15%
  • I removed the star posts and my playfield looks fine 15 votes
    7%
  • My game had clear washers installed from the factory 15 votes
    7%

(Multiple choice - 203 votes by 191 Pinsiders)

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Topic index (key posts)

3 key posts have been marked in this topic

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #306 Sling Post Remediation Efforts #1 Posted by harryhoudini (1 year ago)

Post #307 Sling Post Remediation Efforts #2 Posted by harryhoudini (1 year ago)

Post #432 Washer and Starpost Solution Posted by harryhoudini (1 year ago)


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#955 11 months ago

Hey guys sorry if this has already been asked but I may be getting an SE - have a deposit on one - is there anything I should ask the distributor beforehand about this? Like are there particular build dates that are known to have these issues with bad posts / no washers? Thankyou

#959 11 months ago

ya and I don't know about you... but 8500+ is a lot of money for me... and yes Im sorry... chipping/cracking/delaminating is NOT ok with me in any capacity at that price, for any machine. SO I'm just trying to make sure I'm asking the right questions. I have never had a NIB JJP, so it's my first time

#984 11 months ago

Hey guys so I have an SE coming soon and want to make sure I get the “kit” folks are referring to should I be asking my distributor or JJP direct

#1008 11 months ago
Quoted from RTS:

It's not a deal if you originally intended to buy a game with a good playfield that didn't need replacing.
But yeah, you save $450 purchasing another pf you thought you never needed Sweet deal!

Also considering the hours it takes to do a swap.

#1030 11 months ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

I guess it wouldnt be like doing a 30 year old game where you are rebuilding worn mechs along the way...30 hrs should be plenty of time

+1 to that

#1043 11 months ago

Hey guys thinking about picking up an le, just got some pics and the posts around slings have definitely been crushed into the clear causing some mushrooming. I think with the “fix” should cover this up and be ok? Thoughts

56D694D5-ADD9-4375-A6B7-548165C438F5 (resized).jpegC70E6171-1DBD-4AD2-B8FD-3442240C0631 (resized).jpeg
#1045 11 months ago

Actually it’s cracking check this one

D7E0F18C-84E4-4400-BA08-1C7A56528814 (resized).jpeg
#1047 11 months ago

And makes me as a buyer considering this game VERY concerned

#1057 11 months ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Wait til JJP sorts out the issue and get one that does not have these issues to begin with....nothing good can come from buying a game with known playfield defects...

So I’m kinda in a unique position, I have a deposit down on a NIB SE. if I buy that one before playing it install the kit it will most likely be preventative, and who knows it may not even have the issue.

OR

I Buy this used LE that has some pretty bad damage around the posts and will almost definitely get worse.

I’m leaning towards the SE, I love restoring machines... but not really too excited about the idea of paying for a playfield and investing some serious hours into a swap...

#1061 11 months ago

psw757 can u point me to pictures of the other k own areas you mentioned so I can have the seller send me pictures thank you

#1064 11 months ago

Thanks I just looked through the gallery as well, man so sad... yet so preventable.

The tnut in the map hole is a joke lol... like really guys

#1078 11 months ago
Quoted from Lermods:

The issue with the clear is related to the posts. They were misformed and had sharp edges that dig into the pf. That’s been corrected.

Not completely accurate, I have seen photos of other playfield Posts NOT the sling posts and issues there as well. This appears to be an issue with mounting hardware before the clear is totally cured and or the clear is a bad mix, and is not hardening as it should, or given the time to harden.

Thus, when a post is cranked down in the clear it, can cause the clear to mushroom around the contact point, and eventually will crack in areas with high vibrations / action like slings.

#1089 11 months ago

If you want a guarantee your replacement playfield will not result in the same problem, I’d have the clear stripped and redone have it done by someone like Ron Kruzman.

I did this for NOS creature playfield clear is hard as a rock. Just have to make sure you predrill holes with a rotary burr tool

#1097 11 months ago

I was told the SE I have a deposit on was made writhing the last 2 months

#1107 11 months ago
Quoted from Ilushka85:

My ybr has the same issues in clear and same sharp posts.

My lord are you serious, this is totally unacceptable no matter what anyone says... the amount of money for these machines is a small fortune for many of us.

Now I get mistakes happen and I am very understanding when they do – I have been waiting 3 months for a new WH20 cabinet I ordered and it made wrong, and the replacement still has not come – but in the JJP scenario seems they do not want to actually take any responsibility for this.

What if you went out and bought that 200k Bentley you saved half a lifetime for. On day 30 of owning the car you got your gold chain around your neck, your new deep V-neck on ready to impress... and you notice the clear is cracking and falling apart

You think Bentley would be like... "oh we will give you half off on getting the entire car re-cleared, only cost you about 25k? LOL

#1136 11 months ago
Quoted from kcZ:

2k clear cures very quickly. The clear is cured but with that edge and cranked down posts the clear has no chance of surviving.

I’ll Defer to the pros on this like Ron Kruzman I bet he would beg to differ with you... the reality is there is no way JJP or mirco would let a playfield sit for 2-4 months to properly cure. So things like this happen if they don’t plan for the k own scenario... attaching elements to the playfield basically too soon.

#1144 11 months ago

I don’t even own one I’m pre obsessing thank you

#1225 11 months ago

Cliffy is more surface protection, not inside the actual hole, trimming or grinding it off as @harryhoudini mentioned is the most solid solve

#1247 11 months ago

I put my service order in have not heard back

#1251 11 months ago

Started the rear down, so far chipping is only in 2 spots that I have found. But more important Che k out how pitted the balls aw and here is why, they have been hitting the exposed t-nut in the map hole. This is getting dremmelled down

F2683534-C641-4E99-A903-68FD8695495A (resized).jpeg
#1254 11 months ago

Problem solved very carefully ground off the protruding t nut
1605C6EF-2F64-41EF-9F5E-8B6A426BB03B (resized).jpeg
Also flame polished the main ramp
4EF1F180-CDB3-4772-AC35-360D3D5FEFE6 (resized).jpeg

#1256 11 months ago

joseph5185 yes, it’s kinda an acquired skill, takes time, and I practiced a lot in scrap pieces. But I used novus2 to basically scuff the ramp, and then the flame literally melts a thin layer of the plastic - being very careful - and ends up crystal clean

#1257 11 months ago

Found some Chipping under the chest, the fork openings. Put some
Superglue down, and if need be some Mylar to prevent getting worse. Looks like the Edge if the fork has been rubbing and lifted some clear and caused chipping
5A47F47F-7E8F-4FF3-9B08-A0A72575A921 (resized).jpeg

#1262 11 months ago

@gumnut01 funny i was thinking the same thing, I think it would help, and if the metal piece is deep enough should not bind. Ill ask him

#1263 11 months ago

Found more chipping on the ball drop inlanes.
inlane (resized).jpg

Adding Cliffy's
cliffy (resized).jpg

#1265 11 months ago

harryhoudini exactly 10 years old and over 10k plays lol

#1268 11 months ago

Got em all in

map (resized).jpgscoop (resized).jpg
#1270 11 months ago

gumnut01 I’m not sure why it’s not carbon, on my woz it is, one thing with carbon however, it is slightly thicker.

1 week later
#1272 11 months ago

Well, looks like the issue is still prominent even on brand new Wonkas, I just saw this post in the Wonka Thread

ca69006690d7197ad7e348004fd3b29f89614dd4 (resized).jpg
#1274 11 months ago

It's crazy to me also. In my opinion, it's not JJP's fault directly. However, they are the ones that need to put their foot down and actually do something about it... Its the playfield manufacturer, Mirco...

I have a Whitewater Playfield that is a Mirco... but it sat for 5 months, and I have no bubbling, mushrooming... Without the proper time for the clear to truly set and harden... this will continue to happen... AND, from what I gather they are adding chemicals to speed the clear coat "settling" process.... but this does ZERO favors to the actual hardness of the clear.

#1282 11 months ago

psw757 just wait. If nothing is done to relieve that bulge, and game is continued to be played it will Indefinitely crack then separate... your just seeing stage 1...

#1291 11 months ago
Quoted from kcZ:

Those posts are hollow, I wonder if solid posts would spread the load better and not cause this.

I would bet a very similar result... soft clearcoat is well... soft, and this is the result of cranking down hardware on clear that is not hard.

#1298 11 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

No... physics.
Just like snowshoes not sinking in snow. More contact area with the same force = less pressure
You would be reducing how much you are "pressing down" on the finish
Of course the end result could still be "too much" - but it would be different and better. And why they are trying to combat it with washers

I agree, I just didn’t go to that specificity of definition but good analogy.

1 week later
#1314 11 months ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Yeah I guess so, kind of hard to believe it could be that soft after a few weeks of transit and sitting around etc...

Takes months not weeks to harden... just saying

#1319 11 months ago

I have star posts with the neoprene washers under, works fine but you don’t need to crank them down as hard as you may think

#1350 10 months ago

Got my replacement playfield made some side rails and it’s going on the wall next to the stern playfield as art until I need it

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#1354 10 months ago

It’s pirates , well both are

#1357 10 months ago

In had to follow up twice, the order was just sitting in their que...

#1368 10 months ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

In the apron area, try pressing a fingernail into it. I'd be shocked if it didn't indent. If it does you have basically the same exact clear job. If that machine is a keeper for you then I'd send it off to get a professional clear coat job. Please post the fingernail results.

If this playfield ever gets used, it's going to Ron Kruzman first without a doubt. I don't trust the quality at all. I'll do the nail test tonight, and my estimate... it will dig in, even handling the playfield the surface feels soft.

#1370 10 months ago

Proof is in the pudding, brand new playfield,epic fail on the fingernail test...

To contrast that test, I walked over and did the same test on a Kruzman cleared creature playfield... nothing.

1E1DD42C-A2E7-4E39-B30C-83F313765055 (resized).jpeg
#1373 10 months ago

Here two pics kinda hard to tell.. but does not look terribly thick..

7E70CD95-55F7-4A21-93DF-67D3143438A7 (resized).jpegA0DD0A92-DE6A-4042-AFF2-B054447CEF61 (resized).jpeg
#1377 10 months ago
Quoted from jellikit:

Are those dimples just above your mark? It is hard to tell for sure.

Yes you are seeing correct dimples, they are small but there

#1378 10 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Is there anyone in this thread who would be interested in co-signing a letter to JJP ownership about this issue?

Sign me up!

#1386 10 months ago

Mirco is considered a small producer of playfields!?! They appear to be the single largest.

#1418 10 months ago

zaphx I don’t think you have contributed anything positive to this discussion or topic as a whole, but your entitled to your opinion and to me, that all your statements are... opinions...sorry, but not sorry

#1458 10 months ago

I’d argue the number is higher... I have 6 friends with a version of the game, guess what all 6 have these issues. Not every owner is on pinside as much as we are, and chances are there are more occurrences of this than we know. FYI thelaw

#1462 10 months ago

I agree Harry. He is a businessman, and most likely is only going to divulge limited info as to not fully admit or own this problem quite yet... its a touchy matter. I think he knows he has a problem in his hands.... but I also fear he’s going to do a thing about it, and kinda just gave you some lip Service to calm the waters.

#1490 10 months ago

Just for context I have an ECLE WOZ , playfield is fine

1 week later
#1542 10 months ago

What’s the best method to sign or provide our supposed in the google doc? Thanks for putting this together harryhoudini I know it’s a lot of work.

#1554 10 months ago

Personally, I don’t know about you all... I didn’t pay an exorbitant amount of money for what is touted as the “Bentley” of pinball machines to then be told I need to fork over 550.00 for a new playfield (and you need t nuts, Mylar etc) 675 out the door because they are shipping games with playfield defects.

This is not a resolution, it’s a suggested purchase on behalf of JJP. A free playfield is a resolution.

#1557 10 months ago

I do agree with both of you... but I think it’s most prominent on JJP? My hope is they take the lead on this and reconcile with the playfield manufacturer, thus helping us all. Don’t get me wrong I love my JJP’s...

#1563 10 months ago

If we want to get semantic, I see this as a JJP responsibility, not totally sure its a JJP manufacturing issue. Like other industries, in which companies use other distributors for parts for their final product, if a part fails... and is under warranty, it’s typically replaced, recalled, reconciled... right? Why is this any different.

This is simply bad customer service, maybe JJP needs to implement “JJP care” like apple care with specific documentation on coverage... I had no clue if I’m a second buyer the warranty is void?!

#1565 10 months ago

WOW, that is kinda funny actually

#1623 10 months ago

I think Mirco is being very wise in his silence...
I have personally dealt with Mirco in the past on a whitewater playfield issue...
my experience with him was not positive, he was very quick to point fingers at me for anything wrong with a brand new whitewater playfield. I dont want to drag on but he is not the most professional person to deal with when there are issues, he takes it very personally. And tried to make the matter personal. I would love to hear his input on this

Ironically I made this post just earlier on the Mirco thread

Quoted from Soulrider911:

As much as I was excited for the creature playfield remake... after what I’m dealing with on my JJP pirates, I’m very hesitant to buy one. But am happy for you all that are getting them and best of luck!

11
#1717 10 months ago

Quite the debate going on here, I have to side with harryhoudini and eaglepin on this one

#1745 10 months ago

Totally agree with you, point of clarification I meant I was siding with certain folks in this debate they where having with one another, not a debate if siding with a company. I agree wholly with what you said.

Quoted from wesman:

It's not even about sides. It's about companies, one's very proud of being American made, caring about and extending any and every effort possible to make their customers feel valued, whole, and wishing them to be continued customers.
I have no ill will towards anyone debating a different viewpoint. I just don't understand what it gains anyone, as high paying customers, to do so.
We all clearly adore JJP games. That's not the issue. The issue is how JJP has rectified/not rectified damage to their product via very normal use.
Let's remember the very first Pirates still wasn't even sold at this point a year ago.
We're all in this together. Love of JJP, and....disappointment.

#1823 10 months ago

I guess I’m more a black and white logical thinker. I personally love JJP games. But I have no allegiance to the company. What they have done and are doing is wrong so I’ll be signing. It’s a business decision for me not s personal decision.

#1851 10 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Got a reply from my playfield request case that it was "being sent to management for approval" ...
Anyone get any information on playfield stock? I'm hearing that there may not be any and it may be months of delays to get more from Mirco. If this is the case, why still go with Mirco? Maybe they'll be better, lol.

So it occurred to me after reading all the hubbub about the warranties, I’m second owner, but I was able to get a playfield replacement... so I guess I should consider myself lucky or something?.. that jjp let me spend 550+ on a replacement lol

#1860 10 months ago

Seems to me the warranty is worthless aka not an actual warranty, more like a grace period

#1865 10 months ago

There should be a law against selling a product of certain complexity and price without a legit warranty

1 week later
#1957 10 months ago

Personally have played a lot of CGC games and none of them have these issues that I have seen. I have played a number of AFM, MB, MMR everyone I have played is solid

#1967 10 months ago

I’m point a clear finger at mirco, BUT it’s JJP’s Responsibility to resolve as they are using them as a supplier in their final product.

#1981 10 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

Friendly alternate perspective offered with the best of intentions:
What are you doing here? What's the plan? The desired outcome? The reality is you're the second owner of a machine that was initially routed - that's two major strikes. Because of that, legally, JJP doesn't owe you anything at all. In my experience, this isn't the way to get a satisfactory resolution to anything. It seems like you jumped from DEFCON 4 or 3 to DEFCON 1 and skipped all the in-between. Elevating to this level is a bad idea because there's nowhere left to go. I mean, I hope it works out for you, but I just have to give you a perspective from outside your bubble - you're way down a really dangerous path.

What is the suggested path of restitution here. It would seem you have some knowledge - based on the context of your post... Please share with us. Kinda get the feeling you may have missed some of the details in this topic.

#1996 10 months ago
Quoted from Reznnate:

This thread isn't fun.
My friends call me Cpt. Obvious.

Its not fun for me either, but entirely necessary in my honest opinion. Companies need to be held accountable

#2048 9 months ago
Quoted from dts:

Ah, well thanks for posting yet again. Maybe I'll give him a call. I'll probably not get him either...

I’ve dealt with him in the past, VERY defensive individual. he’s no dummy and I’m my opinion he knows what he is doing... and that there are lots of issues... I just didn’t get the feeling he truly Believes it’s up to him to fix them / or take any ownership whatsoever. Seriously one of the most unpleasant interactions I had ever experienced.

#2104 9 months ago

On man cosmokramer did u just get a CE? And that’s exactly how my friends brand new SE looked oh and there was a massive chip under the dauntless where the post is... someone probably cracked the clear then tried to fix it, made it worse,, finally just said sweet it let’s just ship it.... what a joke I seriously have lost all respect for JJP as a company they don’t practice what they preach and in my book that’s basically lying

1 week later
#2174 9 months ago

harryhoudini did you ever get your playfield?

#2216 9 months ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Maybe something is in the works towards the playfield problems.

Love the optimism and I hope so. Realistically I think both parties at this point are totally aware of the issues, but are just keep quiet, in order to keep the cash flow coming...

#2321 9 months ago

Moral of the story, Mirco's process is flawed. Whatever clear coat accelerator, magical slime mixture they are using to rapidly get the playfields off the line is CLEARLY not working and needs improvement...this will fall on deaf ears anyhow.

So in other news, I love my Pirates!! So lucky I found one.

#2374 9 months ago

Sadly I think - and this has been said before - JJP I believe is washing their hands of pirates. We are lucky to have gotten one, but I think support on it will continue to decline, and most likely parts availability as well. It’s sad. It seems the reality of the situation

3 weeks later
#2604 8 months ago

paynemic mine has that also... I just dabbed some superglue in the open chip... this is not a long term solution, but helps it spreading more. Also I need to bend the fork arms.

#2616 8 months ago

I recently got a refund for my Playfield, minus shipping and the t-nut and Mylar kit, but hey I’ll take anything they will give me. I’m thankful.

1 month later
#2713 7 months ago

Looks like you are doing it correct. I made my own so I don’t have th JJP one, but I
From the looks of it probably just a tight fit, and have have to move a few wires.

1 week later
#2733 6 months ago

darthsinex thats for the map hole - edit: made a mistake in previous comment

2 months later
#2822 4 months ago

The one I got I could easily get my nail into. Also I suggest the tnut kit as well as the Mylar.

3 months later
#2975 32 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

One of the biggest issues is that some Pirates were shipped with posts that had an uneven edge / protruding edge on the bottom. This type of post would dig right into the clear / art and likely contributed to the chipping issues.
At some point (maybe Jan 2019) JJP began shipping Pirates that had plastic clear washers installed at the bottom of the sling posts. The Pirates LE that I had thankfully had these clear washers installed from the factory. I still put small squares of mylar over each sling post hole and then put the JJP washer kit over it, there was never any playfield wear. What I don't know is if JJP used the factory clear washers on all posts or just the sling posts.
Picture without the factory clear washer on sling post
[quoted image]
Picture with factory clear washer on sling post. The sling post is even digging into the clear washer a bit.
[quoted image]

Interestingly I don’t believe the posts with the flanged bottom are to blame. I’m restoring a creature right now, guess what, bunch of the posts have that same flanged bottom... it the playfield not the posts

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