(Topic ID: 242867)

PoTC - Who has playfield cracking & wear around sling posts?

By harryhoudini

1 year ago

Topic Stats

  • 2,984 posts
  • 217 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 days ago by MarZ_78
  • Topic is favorited by 63 Pinsiders


Linked Games

Topic poll

“What kind of issues are you seeing?”

  • I have visible dimples but no chipping 45 votes
  • I can see chipping but haven't done anything yet 67 votes
  • I can see chipping and installed mylar, washer and/or larger star post 30 votes
  • My playfield looks fine (but I haven't removed the star posts) 31 votes
  • I removed the star posts and my playfield looks fine 15 votes
  • My game had clear washers installed from the factory 15 votes

(Multiple choice - 203 votes by 191 Pinsiders)

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Topic index (key posts)

3 key posts have been marked in this topic

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Post #306 Sling Post Remediation Efforts #1 Posted by harryhoudini (1 year ago)

Post #307 Sling Post Remediation Efforts #2 Posted by harryhoudini (1 year ago)

Post #432 Washer and Starpost Solution Posted by harryhoudini (1 year ago)

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#1042 11 months ago
Quoted from seenev:

You get an 80 hour bonus activity with your $10k+ machine!

It’s a bonus arts and crafts project and you only have to spend an additional $550 on top of your initial 10K.

#1046 11 months ago
Quoted from Soulrider911:

Actually it’s cracking check this one[quoted image]

Top notch build quality and attention to detail.

This is exactly what I would expect for 10K.

#1243 11 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

I ordered one. Didn't need it but a deals a deal.

Great deal after spending 10K on a machine.

3 weeks later
#1366 10 months ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

JJP take care of your customers!

Listen, at 9K-12K you can only do so much in terms of quality and overall attention to detail.

#1481 10 months ago
Quoted from woody76:

I just will not buy NIB anymore. I will wait until some used ones with known good playfields hit the secondary market.

I’ve been doing this for years now. It’s the only thing that makes any sense.

1 week later
#1569 10 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:Can't say when this was last updated (it's named updated..) but here are the basic stipulations:
1. The JJP "Bumper to Post" Limited Warranty covers every part in your new Jersey Jack Pinball Machine for a period of 30 days from the date of delivery of the Machine to its original Purchaser.
2. Mostly electronic boards and screen are covered for 6mo/1yr if routed or not.
3. What does JJP do? Send you the part exclusive of shipping charges (you pay).
4. In order to be eligible for coverage you must register your JJP Machine within 5 days of delivery
There are caveats, especially with state laws and implied warranties, which I've been reading about, but you get the gist.
SO.... unless you registered the game within 5 days of delivery, are the original owner AND it's within 30 days of delivery none of us are covered under the warranty for the playfield or non-electronic parts.

Seems reasonable on a 10K purchase.

#1576 10 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Here's an album I put together of only my machine to share with Jack.
These two are my favorite. But check out the album, sort of like a "greatest hits" of crap I had to fix. But sure, I should buy another playfield
[quoted image][quoted image]

“Have we got a deal for you - Spend another $500 with us for a new play field and then pay someone to populate the new play field and install it. How do you like them apples?”

#1581 10 months ago

Today’s games are just too expensive to be pulling these types of shenanigans.

#1592 10 months ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Here was and is my offer or expectation. I agree cost is around $500. They lose no money here but we all do.
Meeting halfway is fair and halfway in this case is a replacement PF for $250-$275. Risk is shared on both ends. They have to pay for some of this and it keeps my cost low enough to accept the risk of another shitty PF.
They could do this, especially if they were willing to discount a new machine order for me by the same amount or more.
The whole situation is just very bad optics for them.

At 10K a pop, I believe you’re quite generous.

#1615 10 months ago
Quoted from EaglePin:

I haven't posted my experience with chipping yet but I think with the activity today it might be useful to share so people can form opinions based on more information. In fact, before all the activity in the thread today I had a conversation with someone at work telling them about my chipping issue, and in that conversation I mentioned to the person that there had been a lot of activity on Pinside about the playfield cracking issue in the past month or so but I prefer to keep my interactions with JJP private to give them a chance to work through it and respond to me. Also in that conversation I said I understand my issue is out of the warranty period so I know they don't have an obligation to do anything about it, however ALL I EVER ASKED FROM THEM FROM THE BEGINNING WAS THE QUESTION "WHAT DO THEY RECOMMEND DOING TO LAY THE CHIP DOWN AND MINIMIZE THE CHANCE OF IT SPREADING SO I CAN RESUME PLAYING MY MACHINE?" I don't think that's an unreasonable ask. I just want to take their recommended approach to the chip and then get back to playing my machine.
It wasn’t until my 2nd follow-up call in 4 weeks of no responses that they did anything, and that was to reach out to the playfield manufacturer for ideas. I have been very patient with them to give them time to provide even just minimal assistance with this straightforward question, but it just has not happened. IT'S BEEN 6 WEEKS NOW SINCE MY FIRST PHONE CONVERSATION WITH THEM AND THEY'VE HAD NO RESPONSE TO WHAT I THINK SHOULD BE A QUESTION THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO ANSWER - "WHAT DO YOU RECOMMEND DOING TO LAY THE CHIP DOWN SO I CAN GET BACK TO PLAYING MY MACHINE?" People on Pinside might have ideas about what to do, but I want advice from JJP since it's their business and their product.
Seeing the activity in the forum today has made me rethink my patience, so here goes:
Bottom line is that I do realize the terms of the warranty are against me. While I understand and accept that fact I'm still very, very disappointed that it's been over 6 weeks with no response to my question. I understand how they handle my and other people's issues are business decisions and they're free to make their choices. I also understand that their choices influence my future purchases (and there will be future purchases), so I'll be making a different choice when it comes to which manufacturer I buy the next machine from.
For me that's what it really comes down to is choices made by both sides and how each side feels about the choices made by the other. I'm not happy they've chosen to not provide a response to a very straightforward question on my issue. I'm not happy that the foundation of the game (the playfield) had an issue within well less than a year of ownership. I gritted my teeth and bought the replacement playfield in case this chip eventually gets worse or some other issues pop up, and I'm not happy they chose to have me pay shipping for the replacement playfield. The impression I've formed through my conversations with them is that it sounded to me like JJP is just outsourcing the playfield with nobody on JJP staff who has enough of an understanding of the playfield painting process or chemistry to know how that playfield is made or what could cause issues with the art and clear coat lifting, let alone having ideas on how to lay a chip back down. My impression is their staff is just more focused on the mechanical and electronic aspects of the games and they just blindly rely on their playfield supplier. My impressions may be incorrect, but it's what I've been left with after 6 weeks of nothing but a few mostly empty phone conversations.
It’s a shame really because the game itself is really so amazing with fun shots and features. But right now I have no confidence JJP can provide good service or make sure the foundations of their games (the playfields) are built to last one year, let alone several years, so I don’t imagine I’ll be interested in picking up another one of their games for many years. Again, they can choose to operate and provide service however they see fit, and I can choose to base my future purchases on how I feel about that.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions but my opinion is that my machine should not have this type chip on the playfield inside of a year and, since it does, JJP should be able to give advice in less than 6 weeks on how to lay it down so I can move on to continue playing pinball. I also think it's interesting that the other machine I own is a used STTNG (originally from 1994) I purchased at the same time as my JJPPOTC and the STTNG playfied is excellent with no restorations that I'm aware of outside regular cleaning and waxing. For a machine that apparently has a bit of a reputation about maintenance issues, my STTNG has been better than my NIB JJPPOTC.
Again, I only post this to relay my experience so others can make their own decisions and form their own opinions about JJP's handling of a playfield issue even when the only thing JJP is being asked for is some advice.
Here's the timeline of my contact with JJP on this:
1) In late May I did a cleaning on my machine and discovered a chip with the art and clear coat lifting near the base of the movable post in front of the "I" lane. I had never moved the post and nothing except a pinball had touched it since it was delivered.
2) I'm the original owner of my machine. When my game was delivered in December I read the warranty terms and I registered my machine within 5 days of purchase. The game has been home use only. I understand the game is out of the warranty period but I contacted them because I thought they could provide help by offering a suggestion as to how best to lay the chip down to prevent future spreading and continue playing.
3) On finding the chip I immediately stopped playing the machine. After a couple weeks I got around to sending an e-mail to JJP with pictures of the chip. My e-mail said only the following: "I’ve seen that a fix kit is being issued for chipping issues at the sling posts on POTC. On my machine I have a chip lifting up at the base of the movable post near the “I” lane, even though I have never moved the post. Will the kit being issued also work on this “I” lane post? Also, can you recommend the best way to repair the chip and prevent further lifting? Should I glue it down or put Mylar over it (or do you recommend something else be done)? Attached are pictures of the chip. I’d really appreciate any advice you can give me."
4) Out of concern my e-mail might not be received, I called. Good thing I did because it turned out my e-mail had gone to their spam folder and was unseen. The phone conversation was mostly just gathering facts about the problem and there wasn't any real course of action laid out at the end of it, so I gave it a few days.
5) Three days later I called again just to get a better idea of what the course of action was going to be to resolve my question which, again, was essentially "What would someone at JJP do to lay down the chip and try to prevent further spreading if their machine had this issue?" I was told they'd check with people involved with production and they'd get back to me. Meanwhile I'd read on Pinside that a replacement playfield could be purchased, so, although I wished I didn't think it was a good idea, I asked to purchase one in case a patch for this chip didn't hold well and/or other issues popped up in the future. I paid their asking price plus shipping. I explained I still would like an answer to my question about how best to lay the chip down, but that I'm getting the replacement playfield in the event things get worse down the road or new issues pop up.
6) Two weeks later I hadn't heard anything, so I called to follow up. I had to explain my issue again, and then was told they hadn't heard anything from the people in the production area. Then I was asked what I expect to get out of this call. I said I understand is it's a 30-day warranty and I'm outside that, but what I'd like is just an answer to the question "What would someone at JJP do to lay down the chip and try to prevent further spreading if their machine had this issue?" I was told that yes, I definitely deserve a response to that question and they'll work to get one.
7) Another two weeks later I hadn't heard a peep, so I called again. I was put through exactly the same conversation as two weeks prior, even including the "Nobody in production has responded" and "What do you expect to get out of this call?" comments. I said again I understand my machine is out of warranty and JJP has no obligation to do anything, but I'd really appreciate it if someone could be my advocate on the question of "What would someone at JJP do to lay the chip down and try to prevent further spreading?" Again I was told I deserve an answer to my question and was told they might have to reach out to the manufacturer for advice on it, and they said give it a day and they'll get back to me. At the end of the next day I received an e-mail that they had reached out to the manufacturer.
5 days later I received an e-mail saying the manufacturer is on holiday. It's now been another 5 days since then and 6 weeks total since my first phone call with no answer to the question, "What should I do to lay the chip down and try to prevent future spreading of it?"[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

“What do you expect to get out of this call?”

What kind of putz is instructing the support staff to ask a customer that question?

#1672 10 months ago
Quoted from EaglePin:

It seems like you're trying to find a reason to say I should have done something differently to get a response so you can make the company look like it isn't doing a bad job at service. Wrong. All the things I've listed above should be more than enough comfort to you that the right communication has reached the right people, with no response received. It also seems like you're disappointed that the company is being criticized here for not doing a good job serving it's customers. Why not be disappointed more in the company for providing bad service?

All good questions.

#1676 10 months ago

This is all noise.

JJP knows there is an issue with the play fields, but is unwilling to go into their own pocket to rectify the problem. This leaves an unknown number of owners justifiably upset since they spent somewhere near $10,000 on their defective game.

Many of these owners have already spoken with Jack, Frank and other members of the JJP team and were dissatisfied with their responses or lack thereof.

#1685 10 months ago
Quoted from wesman:

They know.
My issue is NOT in them not being aware. It's in them NOT caring.

I’m guessing that they just don’t have the capital to properly handle this issue.

#1703 10 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Dude, you insinuated several times that people aren't contacting JJP in an appropriate manner or there are better ways. You pushed on these two guys that they never did what you said. Your suggestion and JJP's insistence on a PRIVATE Google group method of communication is bullshit. But yet, I clearly tried to use that method of communication and their system does not work. You said you didn't even try it, how can you even know if that is a better method? It'd double speak and gaslighting at it's finest. Everyone else is wacky.
You keep crapping on this thread and others, rebuking posts over and over, grandstanding for JJP as if you worked for them. You make underhanded, half hearted statements as if you made a joke and really you punch little holes at posts and ideas. You keep getting downvoted, yet it's really nothing you are doing? I'm done playing with kid gloves, I was more than understanding, open, questioning and looking for opinions in all of my threads. I'm no expert, I'm no one special but truly you have a special place in your heart for JJP and everyone is wrong.
It started early on:

Yup, nothing to see here... business as usual, playfields chip to the wood quite often because that darn ball and those darn washers.

Yeah, people are too anal, you aren't, it's funny, tee hee hee.
Your comment to the playfield offer from JJP was:

This isn't a deal, dude. This is a manufacturing defect that they are charging us to fix. No one is giving you a deal. It's a deal if you DON'T have problems. And if you didn't then you shouldn't have gotten a playfield. So which is it?
Let's have some transparency here. Did you have chipping? Because you said you didn't and this playfield offer is only for those who have chipping.
Did you pay full price for all of the JJP games you own?
Do you get special access to JJP games before they are delivered?
I mean come on, it's pretty damn clear you aren't a neutral party in the slightest.

Really? No side? Laughable.

Yeah dude, you're wrong. Absolutely, 100% dead wrong.

He’s delusional or intentionally obtuse or being paid in some form by JJP.

#1831 10 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I'm also very interested. I want a wonka.
Who do I advertise today?[quoted image]

Whoever pays you the most.

#1833 10 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I think the Stern shirt cost me the most. Does that help?

It helps Stern.

#1897 10 months ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

I totally agree.....I suspect JJP is bleeding cash so I'm sure they can't take the financial hit on replacing on these play fields.


I think it’s pretty clear that they do not have the liquidity to properly handle warranty issues.

#1899 10 months ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Uh-oh...This, if true, is a bad situation to be in.

I hope I’m wrong, but I’m not sure what else it could be.

When folks are dropping 9K-12K per machine, you better take care of them.

#1901 10 months ago
Quoted from Lermods:

Pretty speculative. Even if they had to replace 100 playfields, that’s like $50k, hardly a huge financial hit or one that would cause liquidity issues. people are very quick to jump to conclusions without facts.

Why haven’t they replaced the defective play fields? I agree that 50K should not be a huge financial hit so something is not adding up. When you’re charging these prices you can’t bury your head in the sand.

And we’re both speculating on their liquidity.

1 week later
#2090 9 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I also got an email from Frank at JJP with just an invoice Part Sales Order attached. I think it is the same one as I already had, when I paid originally. So I'm not sure what that means, if he is suggesting I already have an order and it's all good? Or if there is a new order? Not sure. Replying.

He probably thinks your screen name means you can read minds as well.

#2141 9 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

So when the one I have falls apart I have something to put in? Who knows, maybe they run out, I don't really see them changing the quality so sort of over a barrel aren't we? Either you take their shitty offer or what? I'm giving the letter some time to soak in before I look at anything else.

It’s a terrible feeling to have after spending so much money.

This hobby can be very frustrating at times.

1 week later
#2196 9 months ago
Quoted from Quint_of_Dust:

Meanwhile... I sure am enjoying the hell outta my JJP POTC SE! What a terrific pinball experience. The full range of emotion, from frustration to elation, is tremendous.
1900+ home use games and it's rolling like a champ!
Absolutely no regrets. And, if a teensy little chip came up on the PF, I'd feel the same.
Carpe Diem!

It’s great to be you, lol.

1 week later
#2369 9 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Again... how do those chips kill the game play or make it the worst thing that can happen? Right... they don’t.
It’s like you all would throw a game away if you scratched the cabinet.... because you can’t fix the art.

I don’t throw them away, but it is the only reason I’ve sold a game.

#2452 9 months ago
Quoted from VillaThrills:

LE 0488 original owner from a valid distributor
Properly registered first day of ownership
Less than 1 month old
Less than 500 plays on it
Case 3488
Jack himself denied the warranty claim
[quoted image][quoted image]

It takes a set of brass ones to deny that.
As wind of the types of claims that they are denying gets out, I wonder how much longer they’ll be around.

#2472 9 months ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

Probably the guy who bought the game used that was on site
The Warranty is non transferrable so that person would need to buy a replacement

Nope, it’s the original owner of the game.

Questions regarding JJP’s solvency are certainly warranted at this point.

#2474 9 months ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

I said Probably you were very Vague, was not specific as to the person denied, if you supply the details I will check with JJP personally otherwise its a lie to you, try calling me a liar to my face, you hide behind a keyboard

You’re not doing JJP any favors here.

#2480 9 months ago
Quoted from atrainn:

That is absurd. How did you pay? If you used a credit card then I would absolutely call and see what options you have. If I were in the same boat and had exhausted all options via JJP and my distributor then I would call and file a claim with my CC.

I sure hope folks are using a credit card should they decide to purchase a machine in these precarious times.

#2505 8 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

That would be a great step. Would be nice if they announced this kind of thing, especially for the good press

Everything in coin-op and pinball is done in a poorly lit back alley.

3 weeks later
#2627 8 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I haven't gotten a call from Jack so I don't know from the horse's mouth but the word was that the "deal" for $550 was for chipping or cracked playfields only. I would assume that this holds true for the free ones as well.
Guess I'm gonna have to call Jack to see what is up with my payment before I go contesting it. I figured I would have gotten a call or email by now.

Did JJP ever state that this offer was only being extended to the original owner of the machine?

2 weeks later
#2640 7 months ago
Quoted from Oneangrymo:

Whats up with JJP tech support? I sent in two tickets no replies. Then I contacted one of the sales rep, who replied for a while then stopped all contact. Then I left a phone message no reply. My pinball tech said he had a horrible time fixing someone else's woz, took them a month with JJP tech support to get things straight. I never had any issues before.

Who is your distributor?

#2643 7 months ago
Quoted from Oneangrymo:

I bought the machine open box from a shop about 1 hour from me. JJP even registered the machine for me earlier and sent me a new radcal as one of them on the machine I need help with had a large bubble in it.

Maybe the shop you bought it from could light a fire under someone’s rear end at JJP for you?
Are they a JJP dealer?

#2659 7 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Ah screw it, I disputed the transaction. After looking at the dates, the interactions I've had with Jack and his ignoring of my subsequent contacts I'm done. JJP still doesn't get it and barely stepped up like we all gave them credit for.

I look forward to seeing how this plays out.

#2662 7 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

The credit card charge for my replacement playfield. Before Jack started calling people to tell them they were getting a refund/getting a free playfield I paid for one for fear I would have no other option. Subsequently, I have no received a call, no replies to my emails. It's been 2 months I think since I paid for it and more than a month since the first posts here that Jack personally called people.
Furthermore, Jack told me personally on the phone many, many months ago that he would work on a solution for everyone and would treat everyone the same (he had to give the same "deal" to everyone). So either he forgot my number, lost my emails or doesn't want to talk to me or give me a refund.

The credit card company will request proof that you returned the play field.

#2664 7 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I don't need to return it. Jack told the folks who posted here that JJP is providing free playfields to those who have cracks/chips and that those who paid would get refunded. I didn't tell the CC company I returned it.
Are you all new to this thread?

I’m not new, but I’m wondering if the CC company will require that you return the playfield or whether they will ask you to prove what Jack told the other folks whose machines suffer from the playfield issues.

#2679 7 months ago
Quoted from Oneangrymo:

Ill just give JJP the benefit of the doubt and understand they are probably just busy and short staffed. I found a replacement monitor, but want them to tell me if it will work, i dont care if they wont send me a replacement or fix the current one I have, just some communication would be nice.

It seems like if the communication may make them money (potential sale), you’ll get someone on the phone immediately.

If the communication may cost them money, it’s crickets.

#2689 7 months ago
Quoted from Genjuro:

Fwiw, my support ticket from 28 days ago has gone unanswered other than the auto reply.
I have a CE that I will keep indefinitely... i just hope I can have a playfield that is issue free, rather than what I have now that is covered up with temporary measures to keep the problems hidden.

This thread is not instilling much confidence.

1 week later
#2717 7 months ago

Little to no communication or extended lapses of communication between manufacturer and end user when things go wrong is very typical in the pinball business.

I’m sure everything is just peachy.

2 months later
#2876 4 months ago

Such a shady industry.

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