(Topic ID: 242867)

PoTC - Who has playfield cracking & wear around sling posts?


By harryhoudini

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 2,976 posts
  • 217 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 18 days ago by Psw757
  • Topic is favorited by 63 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“What kind of issues are you seeing?”

  • I have visible dimples but no chipping 45 votes
    22%
  • I can see chipping but haven't done anything yet 67 votes
    33%
  • I can see chipping and installed mylar, washer and/or larger star post 30 votes
    15%
  • My playfield looks fine (but I haven't removed the star posts) 31 votes
    15%
  • I removed the star posts and my playfield looks fine 15 votes
    7%
  • My game had clear washers installed from the factory 15 votes
    7%

(Multiple choice - 203 votes by 191 Pinsiders)

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Post #306 Sling Post Remediation Efforts #1 Posted by harryhoudini (1 year ago)

Post #307 Sling Post Remediation Efforts #2 Posted by harryhoudini (1 year ago)

Post #432 Washer and Starpost Solution Posted by harryhoudini (1 year ago)


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#31 1 year ago

I didn’t have chipping, but I thought I should do some preventative maintenance. JJ sent me 6 washers and the plan was to still use the smaller posts with these washers and 16mm Mylar circles underneath. Problem was as soon as I removed the posts saw this:

Pic one and 2 show both sling sections. Note the bit of Playfield that chipped off in pic 1. Pic 3 is my lower left post. Pic 4 is my middle left post. It has been driven in 2mm into the play field. It is down into the wood. Pic 5 is lower right post. As others have mentioned since the posts are sitting lower than the clear coat,any bump is going to lift and crack the clear coat around it. So I believe as others have done to get a hole punch of at least 25mm to stick Mylar circles around these holes and then use a star post. And don’t over tighten.

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#32 1 year ago

Here is what happened when I tried to use original posts with washers and 16mm Mylar discs. The chipping became apparent when I removed the post and the Mylar won’t sit flat because the post sits below the clearcoat.

6C525619-A35A-417F-9226-66AEF5D4BE70 (resized).jpeg

#108 1 year ago

This is my bottom right. Basically every post has cut into the clearcoat. I have ripples in star post under BP ramp. I don’t have franks email. I will just raise a support form.

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#175 1 year ago

I have reported my small chip and ripples to JJP. I am going to hold off putting star posts in and Mylar. Just going to put standard posts back and wait for JJPs reply. Problem with putting star posts on is that they will indent the playfield in a new spot. So we cannot go back to thinner posts or washers if JJP turn around and give us their solution. So I won’t change for now. If it chips, then I know I already reported my concerns to JJP. I may put on star posts and Mylar then. Also I would recommend people to turn down their sling strength. I think the overly strong slings are not helping the situation.

#295 1 year ago

I think the point of this thread which Harry raises (thank you Harry) is to identify how much this is happening, report it to JJ and hopefully come up with a JJ endorsed solution. If that is not possible then come up with a solution that will resolve it in the best way possible.

Here is what we know:

1. All posts without the small washers installed at factory are going to be sharp. You need to ask JJ for the small washers. They will send.
2. Many machines have ripples around posts. These are delaminated clear coat that may or may not chip away.
3. Removing posts to put on washers may cause ripple to chip as it did to mine.
4. Even those with metal washers on their ce installed have chipping, so it is NOT just due to these sharp posts alone.
5. Star posts will cause a larger indent so once you go to these posts there is no going back
6. Excessively thick washers may impact the sling performance.
7. Mylar underneath needs a flat surface. Mine did not adhere because the posts were driven into the surface. I believe repair may not be strong enough under posts. For Mylar to work, maybe can only be used under star posts.
8. Slings are too strong and causing excessive strain. Turn them down

I personally just installed the washers and went back to playing whilst I wait for JJ to reply. If it gets worse, I will install Mylar and star posts.

Please let’s all be nice.

#302 1 year ago

Check previous posts. A ce owner with these metal washers has chipping.

#303 1 year ago

Does anybody have any connection to JJP? It would be good to know they acknowledge this and are working on a solution. I understand if they don’t have one yet. Can any distributor ask? Any advice Lloyd?

#305 1 year ago

Frydaddy has metal washers on his ce and has chipping. Not a solution. As I said can someone who has Frank’s or Jack’s ear ask them to tell us if they are working on a fix. We don’t need to know what it is, just that they care and are working on it.

#308 1 year ago

Just sent email asking JJP to say whether they are working on a solution.

#318 1 year ago

I have only to Frank and Jack

#364 1 year ago
Quoted from twhtalm:

As a TNA owner with near identical issues I can say that the rubber washers under the posts seemed to work out the best. The washers do protrude around the base a little bit but that's extra protection in my eyes. I compressed the washers down about half way and have had no further damage

Thanks for helping out. Just curious, what was Spooky’s response on these issues? Did they acknowledge? Did they resolve by sending out washers? Or did they ignore the situation?

#371 1 year ago

If you wanted to go silicone, these are the same width as a star post. Don’t know if the inner diameter is too big that it would move.

ebay.com link

And they are clear.

#373 1 year ago

That’s what I was thinking. As long as these are not the sort of thing that was causing the reaction with the star post that zaphX was experiencing.

#377 1 year ago

Ok! Thanks Harry. They still take 3-4 weeks to get here but I can wait that long. $10 Aussie delivered is pretty good. 3mm will squash down and being same diameter (18mm star post 19mm washer) they should be invisible.

#378 1 year ago

Thanks zaphX. You did use silicone though didn’t you?

#380 1 year ago

Ok. So similar dimensions to these which are 9mmx19mmx3mm. Apologies for now coming back to your solution from months ago. Was thrown off by the possible reactivity thing and the height change affecting sling performance thing. Are you still going for the double star post or are you all ok? To me this is a solution that will not dent the playfield so it is totally reversible if JJ ever come back with an official solution.

#384 1 year ago

That’s the problem with these issues going on for so long... we start going round and round!!! I will order them anyway. zaphX if the sling height is not altered by the double, is it enough of a problem to make star posts with these washers unusable?

#396 1 year ago

My hammer slipped out of the slings. I’m only using standard posts and the tiny washers supplied by JJ. I wonder if this issue of the hammer escaping the slings is more to do with the slings being titans. I have never had this happen on any of my other games which just use standard rubber.
75BF3B8F-AB33-444D-AF94-D9908B05DB39 (resized).jpeg

#460 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

'm using Titans. Just ordered some PerfectPlay and will try those. I never saw the escapes until the post mod.

Mine escaped last mine escaped the slings last night. Have not changed the posts. Sling strength down to minimum. So it happens before post modification.

#469 1 year ago
Quoted from estrader:

The spinning disc is still loud. My born on date is 3/12/19.

Soccer ball in WCS is much worse. You could contact Yelobird about the mod couples disc silencing kit

#471 1 year ago

Congrats! Looks great. No more chipping for you sir! Still waiting for JJP to reply but if have not heard anything by next week will do the same.

I just hope my ripple under the star post under the ramp does not chip. It is so close to the roll over I don’t think I can protect it. Other people have shown the photo multiple times.

Maybe a cliffy could be made to sit under this star post and under the rollover? May obscure too much playfield. Is a high traffic area.

#478 1 year ago
Quoted from cheshirefilms:

Maybe change out to the perfect plays you have on order before you switch your posts again. I know you've got a lot of plays on your game, the Titans' sling performance is affected after a while and maybe need to be changed as worn out? Could be wrong but if right it's certainly the better fix of the two..

Only had the game for 2 weeks. Maybe 100 games tops.

Quoted from Psw757:

One observation I made that may be a contributing factor to damage cause by the original sling posts with sharp edges is the way the holes are drilled into the pf for the sling post.
Compared to some of the other machines I have that I checked, the sling posts require just a little more torque than some of my other machines to prevent the sling post from being wobbly. This could be the cause of the rippling everywhere. General overtightening but I still firmly believe the cracks and chips are from the posts with the sharp edges.

The holes in the playfield are too big for the bolt, so the bolt can move around. Other games have a much smaller hole and the bolt is snug. This contributes to the posts having to be over tightened so they don’t move around.

I think they made the hole to fit the larger t-nut underneath.

#512 1 year ago
Quoted from wesman:

No need to really stick the slot protectors. I always go n rather than u, directionwise.
Does anyone have updates on their post situation? Going to replace mine with the Lowe's washers and single star posts I already have. Not sure if I should make mylar circles first also.

I guess it depends if the rubber will cause abrasion. I was personally not going to bother with Mylar now. But that’s only because my first attempt did not look that great. Maybe my Mylar was not of the best quality, but it did not look as clear as the factory installed.

#518 1 year ago

I at last did it. Star posts with M8 5/16” rubber washers which are 17.5mm diameter and just 1.5mm thick uncompressed. I also bought M10 3/8” but these stuck out 1.5 mm all around the star post.

Height wise this solution is slightly taller than the original post without the supplied plastic clear washer, but with the supplied plastic washer it is actually slightly shorter.

Huge benefit I see rather than just protecting the table, sling passes to the other flipper are now a breeze!

I think I will stay with this, aesthetically fine IMHO.

Pictures follow. With the line up of all the posts, two posts on left are without washers. Star post on right uses the rubber, supplied post on right has supplied plastic washer. Installed you can see that the standard post on the right is actually taller than the installed star post with rubber.
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#567 1 year ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Isn't routed just more use?

So as an Aussie I have to ask do you guys mean rooted? (As in a proper root?)

Or is what you’re saying fitting in one of these definitions:

1. defeat and cause to retreat in disorder.
"in a matter of minutes the attackers were routed"
2. cut a groove, or any pattern not extending to the edges, in (a wooden or metal surface).
"you routed each plank all along its length"
3. DIALECT
(of an animal) turn up ground with its snout in search of food.
rummage about.
4. NORTH AMERICAN
find or retrieve.
"as I routed out the lantern, the telephone jangled"
force (someone) from a place.
"Simon routed him from the stables"

Just want to clarify if something weird is happening to all your machines.

Quoted from wesman:

My balls will be more contented and less scraped for the foreseeable future.

See, this is what I’m talking about!!! You should all just stop it! I mean talk about machine abuse.

#570 1 year ago

Thanks guys, Oxford certainly needs to update their dictionary.

Hey on another note, my hammer escaped it’s sling last night.

But it had happened with the normal posts as well.

Will keep an eye out.

If it is star posts, I don’t think it is the height, height difference compared to post with Jjp supplied washer was nothing (if not slightly shorter). I think it’s the width. Remember how we had to adjust the switches? They were about 1-2mm further out.

Hopefully it is a one off occurrence. Cos I don’t know how to adjust width.

#573 1 year ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Yeah, I think the width is what we basically agreed on. Not sure there is much to do about that. I suppose you could go back to narrow posts on a petg washer on a neoprene washer, lol. Maybe shave them down a bit to get the height right. It would look crappy but would keep the "diameter" so to speak.

So how many sling escapes are you getting??

#576 1 year ago

Stuff this. There should be none. I’ve only had pins for 5 years and only have 4 others, but never had this happen.

I have replaced my left sling with a standard white rubber sling.

The rubber is much stiffer than the pliable clear titan.

Since I now have both installed. I will test and report back

#587 1 year ago
Quoted from cheshirefilms:

Comparison of slightly used Titan (bottom) vs. clear Superband (top).
Wondering why the hammer could be escaping on the Titans on some games- maybe too wide/stretched?
I haven't had a chance to install these yet. Waiting on some other parts.
[quoted image]

Good thing about this game you can replace sling rubbers without removing the sling plastics or any other playfield parts. Just stretch them over the top.

Have not had any escapes from either my old titan right side or my replaced white rubber left side. The rubber is definitely tighter than the titan.

My slings last night had two battles between them where they picked up the ball and flung it up to the glass and in to the trough. Would be good to be able to turn them down below 16.

#591 1 year ago

I’m finding the star post solution does not work.

Problem: rubber is now further away from hammer equates to hammer hitting with more speed.

Causes:
1. Hammer escapes - every 5th game at the moment. Both titan and white rubber
2. Ball is getting hit so hard it goes airborne, smacks glass and gets flung into trough.

I mentioned it to a pinball repair guy and he told me I can double rubber the sling. Tried this on the star post. Ball now cannot fit in inlanes. Also sensitivity far too low. I guess I could go for double star posts with double rubber. Or I could swap out the solenoids for the next strength down.

EDIT: just removed a whole lot of profanity. I have gone back to Titans, maybe the rubber did not absorb as much impact but passed it on.

I would like jersey jack to come back to us. I am getting too many sling escapes.

#592 1 year ago

Update. It was the rubber on the slings. It is too dense compared to the titan and transfers all the force. I will just fix the hammer escapes as they happen. At least ball is not flying. I wonder if super bands are going to have same problem. An issue for Australia because I don’t know of a titan supplier here.

#606 1 year ago
Quoted from Titan_Pinball:

Pinball Haus in Brisbane is now a Titan Pinball distributor!
https://www.facebook.com/pinballhaus/

Thanks for that, that makes things much easier. Great product these titan rubbers. They look great and the slings work well with them. Just wish the hammer was a bit longer so it did not escape. Almost thinking of drilling the rivet out of the hammer, moving it up 3mm up the arm and redrilling a new hole to attach.

Will check out the other titans. Curious to give the flipper rubbers a go on my other machines. Stupid question is it titans on the flippers on pirates or standard rubber, it looks like pinball life rubber.

#647 1 year ago

Will order double posts. Was hoping for a more elegant solution. I personally think double posts are pretty ugly in such a prominent position where only the bottom rung has a sling. I hope this resolved the sling issues, getting a bit tired of ordering and buying all these bits, thinking it will resolve but never sure. I am still getting air balls from the slings, and did get escaped sling from original posts. Maybe I need to swap to my spare titans. Really enjoy the game, but a bit disenchanted by Jersey Jack’s lack of response to my email. I also reported a broken opto to them a week ago. No response. I will contact them again.

#654 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I've been saying that for a while

Have ordered mine. I just think it looks a little inelegant. Wish there was another solution. In a weeks time after installing the doubles, I probably will not even notice it. It will be good not to have anymore escapes. Thanks zaphX, Cheshirefilms, Harry and others.

#661 1 year ago
Quoted from cheshirefilms:

Rubber on plastic? No worries as to reaction.
And that's entirely why I went for them over the 'mysterious' gummies. Not that I worry about posts that cost under a buck. I just didn't want to redo in the future.
No mylar. Mylar is a fake fix for posts driven into automotive clear, see my posts above per restore guru Keith Holbrook.
Just put down the rubber and forget about it

Is the double star post the same diameter as the single at the base?

#663 1 year ago

Thanks!!!

#747 12 months ago
Quoted from cheshirefilms:

....and I just switched to regular black rubbers for feel. Doubt superbands would ever escape the hammer, and certainly on location would last darn near forever, but I just thought the superbands extra side to side "slingy," on the ball almost as though the ball just hit a trampoline and went "boinnngg..."
[quoted image]

Damn I just bought super bands. I found rubber made it too bouncy. Maybe titans are the only answer.

#758 12 months ago
Quoted from cheshirefilms:

Are you on double slotted star posts or singles?
I'm on double slotted- and find them to play really nicely with the rubber at the right level with the ball.
This is an important consideration as well- plus stiffer is what I want, to help prevent sling escapes.
As for the rubber shedding- I'll monitor- but I'd think it more of a problem with posts than slings.
I could also maybe order some new black perfect plays from pinball life.
The clear Titans are a PITA because they REALLY need to be wiped down all the time.

Single. I have double but not installed as I am now awaiting JJP as they are putting together a solution. Wasted 50 bucks buying all the posts, washers, slings and postage. Anyway.

White rubber gave me 4x as many air balls as titans. Just received white super bands. Was going to give them a go.

Maybe white rubber is more bouncy than black. It does deteriorate much faster than black. I should have got smaller super bands for the star map area, that would mean rubbers only have to be swapped over once. Damn there’s another $10 postage.

#768 12 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I got an escaped sling hammer on my double stars last night w/ titans. I’ve put on the perfect plays and we’ll see how they do.

I’m curious why we get so many more air balls with this game when we use normal rubber. I need to compare the solenoids and hammer design with my other games. Are the solenoids more powerful or is it the distance and throw of the hammer arm?

#769 12 months ago
Quoted from cheshirefilms:

With a wider field of gameplays now, I think the black rubber isn't tenable either. Noticed an uptick in airballs recently with the rubber. Not as crazy as maybe you saw, but its there. Going to order some new black Titans and possibly some me perfectplays, if only to see how I like the difference. Part of me is curious how the 2 1/4 titans would play on the starposts.

I will try the white super bands. Let you know how I go.

#789 12 months ago
Quoted from cheshirefilms:

Best of luck mate.
On my front, today, I removed the starposts, put back in the stock ones with the JJP washers.
Novus took out the indentations in the clear from the rubbers, which really wasn't much on my game.
Interestingly, a lot of the bloated clear around the post areas seemed to calm down from 60 or so games of even pressure from the washers and starposts.
As before, I'm one of the lucky ones (so far) that tried this switch before chipping actually occured
Anyways, Im not a science guy, but as I've seen it on my own game it's not just about sling escapes. Which was rare with the Titans on my double posts (1 in 60 plays-ish).
It's also about the airballs, which frankly the power of the sling hammer would probably have to be greatly reduced below the JJP lower limit given the diameter changes of the starposts. Same can be said probably for the sling escapes, too.
So while I do hold that the double starposts is the best fix for chipped clear games, I do now see that it's a qualified fix till a much lower sling power option is introduced, plus maybe some of the other mechs may need adjusting in the region, as the poster above has described.
Hopefully JJP will advise for the most affected- those whose games chipped before the poly washers were installed, but also be good to hear any updates for the rest of us.
[quoted image]

Just remember, i had hammer escapes from the standard posts.

I don’t think there is still a solution that works 100%.

We are chasing our tails.

Good luck!!

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#794 12 months ago

Here’s another option. I have this on Simpson’s. You can keep the small posts and add this rubber underneath to hide any damage to playfield.
AE25AF83-3208-488B-8E14-F5E4B3658750 (resized).jpeg

It’s a thick short rubber post protector. Could solve our problems.

#801 12 months ago
Quoted from gumnut01:

Here’s another option. I have this on Simpson’s. You can keep the small posts and add this rubber underneath to hide any damage to playfield.
[quoted image]
It’s a thick short rubber post protector. Could solve our problems.

Is there a problem with this solution? I mean it’s not the prettiest but it ticks every box. The only other solution is to have @yelobird create custom posts which could look like little rum bottles.

#802 12 months ago

Seriously, these would fix it:

https://www.titanpinball.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=52
Single 1-2 Post-800x800 (resized).jpg

Put the standard posts in the clear or colour of your choice and it solves the problem!!!!

#805 12 months ago

I just checked out my Tspp. It had the 1/2” black rubber post protectors on one of the slings as I posted. I rested a ball against it, protector does not affect ball. Still hits sling first. I checked the pirate post next to stern post. It is similar height and thickness. Then put a protector on the Pirates post. Fairly tight fit. It is not going to push down on playfield to add extra stability but it will hide any rippling or chipping and it will not turn upwards like an oversized rubber washer.

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#806 12 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

All it does is cover the area...and changes nothing else. What’s the point really... it draws far more attention to the spot that the original damage

Just trying to solve the problems that starposts create of more escaped slings and airballs. If you check out the tspp photo black stern posts and black protectors look pretty similar to a star post. Maybe the clear titan would look ok around the clear post. I don’t know! But it would give us back the original sling performance (which is why cheshirefilms changed their posts back) and hide any damage or rippling that may have occurred. The only other answer is a new type of star post/post that is thicker down the bottom but same thickness as original pirate post where it holds the sling. Oh and slightly shorter to accomodate rubber washer. Got no other answer.

#814 12 months ago
Quoted from wesman:

Are these the 1/2" post sleeves?
Would the tapered ones work as well or better? They seem like they are a combo of that and a washer.

Yep. They are 1/2 inch.

On my own solution, I tried superbands around my star posts. Big mistake. Made one of my posts lean. Spoke to my friendly pinball tech and he said there have been instances of stern posts being ripped out by super bands. Plus they don’t feel like rubber. He recommends PerfectPlays. Seems to not overstretch and become loose like other silicone solutions. Maybe this will stop hammer escapes.

Anyway, I have nice depressions under the rubber, not damage just compressed playfield. Just like yelobird said there would be. For now I have installed the double star posts, same aesthetics as singles as others have said. I will look at getting some perfect plays.

I guess for those who have slight chipping but want to retain the original post size, these 1/2” in translucent or a colour to match a solid colour post could be a solution. Conical could look nice as well. And yes they just cover up, no additional support and no indentations.

#823 12 months ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Ah hiding it, vs star post. I thought it was being stated it would stop the post from digging in. Makes sense now.

I said it was only hiding what was there. It does not add anything in terms of stability over the standard posts. And yes you would have to use the JJP supplied washers. For the record I am using double star posts and going to get perfectplays. I have large circular indentations from the starposts so I don’t have a choice. No going back, star posts for me.

Two other options to solve the strong slings for double star posts. Firstly, double up the rubbers. Secondly, maybe a bigger spring on the solenoids. This was suggested by my distributor. Just a thought.

#828 12 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

LOL.. that's hilarious. I mean, sad.. but hilarious because I just got back from the NW Pin Show and played a YBR several times and the castle doors (which there were two... not sure what the whole "one door" talk was because the mech looks exactly the same from the top) still had issues on a NEW game. I've been battling castle door issues on my SE WOZ for a long time and finally had to redesign/innovate on the door switches to fix the design that was really a bad concept from the start.

There’s a new business venture for you Harry!

#829 12 months ago
Quoted from cheshirefilms:

If you used a rubber washer only the residual marks come out with Quixx and a bit of elbow grease. Of course, can understand might be too much if a hard washer or none at all was initially used..
Also- you do have a choice even still. Use the stock posts and the translucent rubber post covers from Titan described earlier in the thread, they'll likely be wide enough- maybe more- to cover the indentations.

Thanks Cheshire. I tightened the star posts down with washers hard to get the best stability otherwise it could result in lateral movement which may ripple clearcoat again. I also wanted a low profile to reduce sling problems. It’s not just a depression, but the sheen has gone, it is now a matte finish. I’m really happy with my doubles and titans at the moment. Less air balls and it looks good. If I get one sling escape in 200 games, I can live with that. I think the new perfect plays will fix that.

#830 12 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Unless you have a massive chip... honestly you're probably better off just ignoring it.. or using a tab of paint to mask it. These huge posts will just make it look goofy.

If you look at my TSPP black rubber on black posts is hardly noticeable. Looks a bit like a star post. I was just suggesting a different aesthetic to hide any rippling or chipping if people did not want to use star posts. Translucent could be used with the clear posts or blue with blue etc. I’m certainly not suggesting black with clear posts. Anyways just a alternate thought. I really don’t like seeing washers stuck out further than posts. Personally I’m just sticking with double star posts, but my rubbers are exact same diameter.

Interesting to see same issues with YBR. Good in a way that it just won’t be a forgotten issue for a discontinued game.

#836 11 months ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Found another problem spot with the clearcoat.
Check your I lane moveable post and more specifically the open top hole.
From the ball rolling over that exposed hole I have a crack in the clear and it’s hanging on like a hangnail. It will surely be a chip but for now i applied Mylar.
Will be reporting this to JJP, this is the first time I’ve seen a exposed post hole crack like this.

One solution is to move the post to the upper hole...

#837 11 months ago
Quoted from Nepi23:

Anybody with experience on would this work?
Originals posts, under them a clear washer and narrow rubber.
Or is the sling now too high in comparison to the the ball?
Maybe I should remove the clear washer?
Thank you again for your advice![quoted image][quoted image]

Since you are using a playfield protector, do you need to worry about the rubber washer? Do you have any signs of chipping or ripples? I think you will get hammer escapes from the slings. Are you also trying to raise the slings so it hits the ball at the same level it would without the protector?

#843 11 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

I am NOT making fun but I must say some of you spend a lot of time analyzing your playfield. lol. I must be a lazy pinball player, unless the spinning disk falls through the playfield and the ball rolls in I play it as it is and never notice a thing. Again, NOT saying thats bad just making fun of the fact I must be really lazy not looking for scratches etc.

He did have some pretty bad chipping which he has fixed with star posts. I guess he does not want this hole in the playfield to start to chip.

BTW, ordered your kraken, cannon and monkey. Pretty excited! Beautiful work. Can’t wait to install.

#844 11 months ago
Quoted from bemmett:

Over the weekend I took my posts off and sure enough at least half those posts had dug into the playfield and were very uneven and had sharp edges. Luckily other than directly under the posts hadn't caused any extensive damage. I sanded down the uneven posts and sourced a small black rubber and put a nylon clear washer under each post. Doesn't look too bad and hopefully will prevent any further damage under them.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Very neat! I could not find rubber washers that small and flat. Should do the trick.

#848 11 months ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Oh...it’s chipped but hanging on by a thread. And yes I was hoping for it to not seperate totally.
Pretty amazing to have a mod maker on here chastise, poke fun and be critical of his customers having issues with their machines.

I don’t think yelobird actually realised the chipping you had. I think he just wants people to enjoy the game. There are heaps that were asking for new playfield etc that had no real damage. And people complaining about it that did not even own one.

#854 11 months ago
Quoted from Nepi23:

Yes, the PF protector goes around the posts, I need to add washers as well. I do not have the effects yet, but I have played only ca. 10 games on it. No, the posts just raise a bit with the rubber and clear washer, but as you said, they may be a bit too high up now.

Unless you get lots of hammer escapes I wouldn’t worry. Test it! Also turn down the slings to lowest and if you still have problems, try replacing the titans with perfectplays. I am envious of your playfield with no dimples. Enjoy your pirates, Arrrrrrrrggghhh.

#874 11 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

PerfectPlays were looking good. THey are wearing well and seem to hold less dirt!
But then I got a sling escape . Back to the drawing board.
Still like em though.

I compressed the rubber under the double star posts to almost paper thin. I am still using the titans. Have not had one hammer escape and a lot less air balls. I have not probably put in as many games as you. But it was a real problem with the singles. My playfield is compressed like anything underneath, but it’s out of sight!

Good luck!

Are your slings on 16?

#877 11 months ago
Quoted from wesman:

So washers compressed/made circles underneath them? Not sure if impressions or flakes are worse.

Does it matter if it leaves an impression under the post? If it’s not tight it’s going to be susceptible to movement from the slings. It’s rubber, so there are no hard edges cutting into the clearcoat.

#880 11 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Everyone looks decent in a dark basement!

Except Radioactive Flesh Eating Zombies.

#881 11 months ago

cute doggy!!!

#891 11 months ago
Quoted from wesman:

I meant, like an impression the size of a washer, which is significant. Right now I'm just at ripple stage. And we could argue if it's cracked, does it matter if it's under a starpost.
Ideally no impression or cracking > impression > cracking. I'd say.

I was just putting the supplied washer on with some Mylar under my post. In removing the posts I saw some of the ripple come away and leave a small chip. Other posts had rippling next to where they had dug into clearcoat. Would it have got any worse? Don’t know, other people had their chips get bigger. So I tightened down star posts with rubber exactly same size. Heaps of games have star posts. When I removed them at least the ripples were flattened out. This clearcoat is soft. It’s going to indent no matter what you use. If you have no problems, don’t change!!

#892 11 months ago

Has anyone found after putting double star posts on that the ball now has trouble rolling into the “A” lane? It seems to get briefly caught between the top right starpost and the other post to the right (the post between the “A” and the “T”). I don’t know if I have to try and move the starpost over a fraction of a millimeter or change the other post. Damn. I was getting fewer air balls and no hammer escapes.

#900 11 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

No, but when I installed it I made sure the posts were as far from the lane as possible for this reason.

Funny I tried to have the posts as close to the sling hammer to stop escapes. Anyway moved it as far to the left as I could. Just a fraction of movement. Also moved the post to the right across as much as I could. Flows freely now.

I have 2 suggestions to fix strong slings:

1. Add stronger strings to sling solenoids
2. Dremmel the rubber groove a bit on the star posts to make them narrower.

#901 11 months ago

Ok dremmelled the shit out of these posts. The first photo shows the original post in front of the doubles. You can see the dremmelled side. The next two show close ups of sling corners. Then if the whole area after. Lastly in comparison to original post height. Hopefully this makes a difference. Let you know.

30D2DA9C-A0B4-4E00-8788-607C0EDC28F9 (resized).jpeg29B73545-6639-47CF-B937-7058D5D46B59 (resized).jpegD9B1C961-0367-441A-BF12-43C9538144F3 (resized).jpeg80321C8A-70B6-4ADE-84D9-3D1B8EB22935 (resized).jpegD82B0854-193D-4AF6-92D6-5E84AC21789A (resized).jpeg
#902 11 months ago

Had a few games. It works, no air balls. Slings are no longer supercharged. So our theory was correct. Width of a star post with rubber base down the bottom to hide ripples and stop cracking. Height and width of original post’s rubber notch to stop air balls, hammer escapes etc. Unless you deepen the double star posts grooves the hammer is travelling further without the sling slowing it down. When it at last hits the sling rubber it hits with way more force. Once the sling rubber is brought back closer to the hammer by dremmelling the grooves, it brings the hammer speed back down to normal spec.

Hopefully I never have to post on this thread again!! (That would be a community service!)

#905 11 months ago
Quoted from Psw757:

I still haven’t had any issues using the regular star posts but you have me wondering if I should Dremel the rubber notch as well. I did reduce power on the slings to the min setting and are still plenty active.

Here’s the attachment I used. Besides going deeper, make the groove wider. I took a bit more off the top than the bottom. You don’t want the sling to sit lower than the supplied post. This is assuming you are using the lower rung of a double post. You want to do a straight section along where the slings are facing the playfield and a slight bit as it curves around. All in all your doing a bit over a quarter of it. Check the photo in my other post as to how much I took off. I also took a little off the top right post on the other side that faces the top of the “A” inlane. It doesn’t matter if it does not look that pretty. The sling rubber covers it. Test it out on a old star post first and use the supplied posts as a guide. The ball still touches the rubber if you lean a ball against it. It does not touch the thicker base. Unless JJP fabricate a totally new post which is thick at the bottom but thin where the sling sits, I can think of no other solution. I can take photos of the completed slings with the plastics. I can also take photos of the posts without the slings.
D1FAB534-B674-4C29-8FEC-6D3A34DB42CF (resized).jpeg

#954 11 months ago

I gave you guys the fix. No one is going to fabricate a new type of star post for you. Just dremmel the double star posts and get on with it. Rather than read instructions on how to correct you’re all just complaining about JJP. they always said they were going to give us a standard star post with some washers. I sent them emails explaining the problems that would create with the slings. I told them they need a post which is wide down the bottom but the groove had to be same height and width as the original post. My fix solves sling strength and no hammer escapes. It is earlier in this thread before it all blew up again. It would be great if a new post and washer is sent to us to resolve, but I don’t think it will. Good luck everyone!

#956 11 months ago
Quoted from Soulrider911:

Hey guys sorry if this has already been asked but I may be getting an SE - have a deposit on one - is there anything I should ask the distributor beforehand about this? Like are there particular build dates that are known to have these issues with bad posts / no washers? Thankyou

You may not have an issue. Mine had the supplied posts without washers cause it was an early build. My distributor told me I was the only person in Australia to mention it to him so nobody else had issues. I only had rippling but a chip appeared in taking the posts out to put the clear washers in that JJP have already installed on your machine. If you don’t have chips and rippling, you may never have an issue. If you do then there are a number of fixes you can do such as post protectors around the supplied post or the rubber washer double star post dremmel fix. Just inspect it when you get it, and the play it!!

#973 11 months ago

I think this thread has lost its way. The OP and a number of others reported chipping around their sling posts on machines that are only a few months old.

Let’s be clear. No ball is hitting that part of the playfield directly. It happened because of a different clear coat being used to older machines and that Jjp used thin posts with sharp edges on the bottom overtightened on top of holes that were drilled too large. The metal bolt does not sit snugly in the hole it can move around. These posts bit into the clear coat and the coating has started to unadhere. This appears as ripples on the playfield. The OP and others have warned us that these ripples can turn into chips which are very prominent in their position. The OP has also reported that this has happened around other posts. Yet he and others are being call whingers and should just drink some concrete and harden the f$&@ up.

No other machine I have has playfield damage around the posts. I have not seen this in any pinball parlour. It is not normal wear. Normal wear is around scoops and under ramp exits where the ball is constantly bashing away at the table. My routed bad cats, Tspp and World Cup soccer do not have damage around sling posts.

Another machine that has had the same issues is TNA.

Given that we know this is a new phenomenon we seem to have 5 camps:

1. People who are coming at the manufacturers with pitchforks screaming for blood. They want new populated playfields. While they may be right in theory it would destroy said manufacturer and we would not have anymore great games. Some of these people have chipping or rippling. Some of them have not seen any concerns as yet. But the thought of it concerns them. Some people yelling the most don’t even own the game.
2. Those worried that people from 1 will in fact destroy the manufacturer and pinball as we know it from their unjust demands. They want people to stop saying bad things about the best pinball in the world. They either deny the problem exists or just says Meh who cares. Stop whining.
3. People who accept the problem, have reported it to the manufacturer and are awaiting a response.
4. People that are unaware of the problem or not worried by it.
5. Those who are working through different solutions to try to resolve what is happening. They have found that rubber washers under double star posts hides any rippling and chipping as well as provides a firm stable base to support the slings. They found that the sling performance is altered by the star posts but this can be resolved by altering the star posts slightly.

There is enough help in this thread to assist with making sure damage down the track does not happen to playfields around the sling area.

If JJP’s solution does not work and they just provide star posts which will result in hammer escapes and increased sling power, that’s ok. You can do something to fix it.

I do hope none of the other posts start chipping. It is a fantastic game. People that do not have one, please do not comment.

#974 11 months ago

I have become way too consumed in this issue. I need to give up my pinside addiction and play some pinball. Adios!!

#1122 11 months ago
Quoted from thePLAyNone:

Our pirates, Batman 66, Beatles gold, and now black knight are doing the same thing!

So what’s going on? Is this all coming back to micro?

I’ve just bought a whole bunch of neoprene rubber. The m8 rubber under my double star posts are the same diameter as the stars. Don’t stick out. They squashed down all ripples that were there and have not cut in since they are soft. I don’t think nylon will be as gentle. They also provide surface grip, meaning the star post is not going to move and no abrasion to the playfield underneath.

I have bought another 50 m5 and m6 rubber washers. The m5 are the exact same diameter as the standard clear post. The m6 gives an additional 2mm diameter to hide any extra chipping. These washers are only 5mm and 6mm internal diameter respectively. So the whole post is sitting on these guys, not just the edge. They are only 1mm thick and will compress nicely.

I am going to fix spots as I need to.

In terms of playfield replacement, maybe I pass if I am buying the same product. I might regret it later. It’s not so much paying for a new one. Let’s face it the middle of the playfield is fine. It’s just around the posts. It’s the problem of buying the same.

I know I said I was not going to post here again, but this seems to be a bigger issue which is plaguing other manufacturers. Who else can JJP use? I’m ignorant and don’t know what other playfield manufacturers there are.

Lastly, I shall say it again the double star posts with m8 rubber washers underneath that have had their grooves dremmelled deeper to match the same thickness as the original posts solves all issues around the slings. Stable, protected, normal sling power, no air balls, no hammer escapes. Pictures exist pages back. Harry maybe you can key this post?

One last thing, a hard nylon washer is not going to perform well. I would advise using rubber washers instead.

#1128 11 months ago
Quoted from ronaldvg:

But this is because not many people are looking so hard for these problems, as I tried to point out in my previous post. But then you all got very upset and did not read my post right or I did not do the wording right.
I read a lot of your posts (harry) and you do amazing stuff with mods and think really creatively with your machines and if you do that, you will see much more problems with the machines as other people that are not that involved. If you then point them out for that one game, everybody with that game goes looking for problems and sure enough will find them. But as I said before, the problem with pinball is that the steel ball will break stuff. Sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. It is like with a telephone. I can drop it 10 times no problem and my friend drops it once and it shatters to pieces. Same phone.
Again - please read on - I do think that when parts of the artwork just come off of the playfield, that is not normal. But you would be surprised how many problems like these there are on all pinball machines if you go looking for them.

That’s not the point. There are steps we can take to reduce the problem. I don’t have this happen on any other machine. If this is the future if all pinball machines lets be ready to address it. Whinging about JJP is no longer helpful. Nor is saying shit happens. Why wouldn’t you take steps to make sure damage does not happen? Go tell all the people with TNA that they don’t have issues.

#1157 11 months ago
Quoted from Ilushka85:

They are sending a second post update kit which is same as potc for ybr

Don’t use nylon washers. Get yourselves neoprene rubber.

#1160 11 months ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

Doesn´t neoprene get dry and crack over time?
Whatabout fiber washers?

Ok in 5 years you may have to swap the rubber out!

#1162 11 months ago

wow

#1226 11 months ago

I have had no problem with my CGC playfield except for dimpling. The clear is much thinner and more of a satin finish. Has anyone had problems with AFMr playfields?

#1228 11 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

This pic: (There are 25 pages on this thread that I just stumbled onto about an hour ago).
For this problem with the peeling piece of clear, you can stop this from spreading. You will need a couple of tools.
You need a Chrome 1/2" or 9/16" wrench. A 3/8" wrench will probably work. Here is the logic with the wrench: You can lay down a puddle of superglue and if you placed your finger in the superglue you will be stuck. Take a chrome wrench and give it a swim in the superglue. It will not stick. Try it. See for yourself.
So, the 2nd item you need is some medium setting, thin bodied (low viscosity) superglue.
The 3rd tool that would be nice to have for a back up to the wrench is a piece of wood with some packing tape placed across the wood surface. Spread a light coat of Vaseline, or some other kind of grease, or some other kind of non-stick material.
For this flap of clear that looks like a trap door, wash it down with some alcohol make sure the area is clean. Then make sure the area is dry. Lay the flap back down to where it is supposed to be. Hold it in position with the wrench and start applying the superglue. Try not to flood the area to much. Try to be neat with the glue. The glue should wick in between the flap of clear that you have laid back down and the surface you are wanting the flap to bond to. But you may need to massage it with the wrench. Worse case is you will need to use the greasy piece of wood as a press of sort.
Disclaimer: I had just received my restored and clear coated play field back from the restorer. I had a small piece of clear peel away from the wood in the under-the-apron area. When that small piece pulled away it started more peeling a little farther back. And I am freaking out. Like WTF am I going to do to keep the entire clear coat from peeling away. In desperation, I got out the superglue. The glue wicked underneath an area that had pulled away and sealed it all up tight and my problem went away.
Fir this pic with this flap of peeled clear I think some superglue will work wonders for you.
Good Luck
[quoted image]

That’s actually Mylar. It was the chips he was concerned about. Great tips about how to fix clear that is peeling though.

#1232 11 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Actually, if you have a chip along an edge, or a chunk of clear that is missing, if you have access to some small quantities automotive clear (maybe a body shop will sell you a small quantity of clear base and clear catalyst if you furnish both containers. Or maybe not) you can mix up a small amount and touch up an edge with a brush, or you can run a piece of masking tape along side of the play field and make a fence you pour some clear along the edge. Once cured, pull the tape and file and sand the repair clear into shape. I assume the chip would be located under a play field plastic, therefore, it would not need to be polished.
If you have a hole/spot of missing clear, you can pour into the discrepant area or use a small artists' brush to move the clear around, let cure, sand, and polish. If you do good work you will never see your "patch".
You have to do all proper prep, though. Clean and dry.

Thanks for this! Great to have this as a resource.

#1239 11 months ago

So mostly I see that CGC clearcoat is good. Why doesn’t everyone use the same process? I saw one poster talk about banding but I can’t see it on mine.

I know I asked this before.

#1261 11 months ago
Quoted from Soulrider911:

Found some Chipping under the chest, the fork openings. Put some
Superglue down, and if need be some Mylar to prevent getting worse. Looks like the Edge if the fork has been rubbing and lifted some clear and caused chipping
[quoted image]

I’ve got the exact same chip.
Done nothing about it yet.....

I wonder if some Cliffy’s should be made for under the chest, covering both fork slots. Then again it could bind on them I guess

#1269 11 months ago
Quoted from Soulrider911:

Got em all in[quoted image][quoted image]

Good job. I thought the scoop would be carbon to stop it from lifting. Cliffy switched to carbon for World Cup because of the lifting issue. Anybody having there tortuga lift?

#1271 11 months ago
Quoted from Soulrider911:

gumnut01 I’m not sure why it’s not carbon, on my woz it is, one thing with carbon however, it is slightly thicker.

Maybe the extra post on the right keeps it down. Even though mine lift on World Cup I don’t think it affects the ball. You have done an amazing job btw. Well done!

I have the older metal ones on World Cup.

1 week later
#1288 11 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Appears to be getting worse and ain’t pretty under even the ones that are not as bad as slings[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Sorry to see that this is happening to your beautiful pin. What does stern say?

#1299 11 months ago

My ripples were flattened out by the neoprene under the star post. Think of a depression on grass after a weight has been resting on it, that’s what I see when I lift up the rubber washer. There is no bunching up or rippling that can occur to the sides. I have put hundreds of games on and it looks great around the posts I have added washers too. And post no matter how large will penetrate the clear if it is tightened down too much. You need something soft underneath. Rubber protects, why do you think we have condoms?
Stop screwing your machines people. Add protection.

#1301 11 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Will have to look. We bought it along with Munsters so from first batch. I assume it cured for the few months between build and when we bought.

Sadly At this point, very little.
At first is was radio silence for over a month. Multiple contacts to both distributor that were passed along to stern and direct to stern, went ignored.
Now they asked for more photos and want to see if it is getting worse!
I am not sure why it would matter. This PF is dickered and they need to send a replacement. Really no question in my mind. I am not sure why it was not their immediate response.

Thank you for sharing this info. Just goes to show most pinball manufacturers are facing this problem and as yet have no solution. They don’t want to just keep replacing everyone’s playfield when it happens. Best of luck, I hope Stern do the right thing. Weird you’ve had no issues with Munsters (touch wood).

#1303 10 months ago
Quoted from dnaman:

A friend just sent me this, he's contacted the distributor and JJP. They are sending the starpost 'upgrade'. He had the same shitty clear issues with his GB LE, fortunately those were replaced. Bought bought NIB. I think those purchases may be numbered for many of us.
My POTC has the raised wave circle, where the clear has essentially been pushed outwards. I expect that you have to use a solid surface to push down on the PF otherwise you will have the same issue but wider.[quoted image]

Yep. Neoprene rubber. Fortunate for you these washers are easy to come by in the uk. Look through the thread you will see lots of solutions. Either washers slightly wider than your posts or go to double stars and dremmel them so the rubber sits closer. Turn the slings down to 16.

#1313 10 months ago

Why are pinball manufacturers still using micro? There are other choices.

#1320 10 months ago
Quoted from Soulrider911:

I have star posts with the neoprene washers under, works fine but you don’t need to crank them down as hard as you may think

Cranked mine down.

#1321 10 months ago

Ok. So question to those who already bought a spare playfield months ago.

How do you know when the clear is fully set? Does the spare feel harder or more cured? Just curious if these playfields will become harder and more durable with time.

It may be too early to know I guess and how would one check durability anyway?

Sorry probably stupid questions.

#1325 10 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Instead of using neoprene or rubber washers I think I would opt to get some of those clear washers that Marco sells to place under the sling shot plastics.
Those washers would offer a wider base to help distribute the load. They are solid and would be almost invisible when placed under a play field post.

But they can cut in to the clear. Neoprene won’t. It will also reduce vibrations and abrasions caused by the slings. My neoprene washers that are the same size as the double star posts have flattened down the clear slightly but no rippling to the side. I have also bought small m5 neoprene to go under the conventional posts elsewhere.

#1326 10 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Never stupid questions unless you don’t ask. Personally I take a fingernail or a wood nail and poke it in an inconspicuous spot. You can generally see how tough it is with a single poke. The CE spare Playfield I bought seems rather hard and flawless to me. Glad I opted for a spare as I suspect I will have these Pirates for Many years to come until they retire me to Davy Jones locker.

Thank you!!!

That’s reassuring for us who want to opt for the reduced price playfields from JJP. did not want to buy a playfield that was going to have the same issues. So a few years of curing hopefully will resolve. No guarantees but sounding good.

#1351 10 months ago
Quoted from Soulrider911:

Got my replacement playfield made some side rails and it’s going on the wall next to the stern playfield as art until I need it [quoted image]

So was this the discounted one?

#1356 10 months ago

Did you get any notification? I have heard nothing. Would have thought they got all of them delivered.

#1359 10 months ago

So if we go for the extra playfield, the consensus is that the printing is not adhered to the wood that well? That’s why the artwork chips away. Otherwise if it was just clear than clear would chip but artwork would stay. I guess the thick clear does not help the situation. But it’s like the bond is stronger between the layers of clear and the printing, rather than the printing and the wood.

Going forward, do we get the extra playfield or are we just setting ourselves up for the same problem again?

I guess if we do go for it, keep in original packaging and lay down flat? If we keep it for years like this can it go off? Some have had bad experiences. I would like to keep for a number of years as insurance if my playfield gets worse.

When I do replace, rubber washers under all posts and don’t over tighten.

Thoughts? I know I am chasing my tail, but a lot of money if it is not a guaranteed fall back or if I can damage the replacement by storing incorrectly or for too long.

Thanks.

#1408 10 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

This whole thread has gone totally batshit crazy.
harryhoudini you bought a used (and ROUTED) machine - the fact you’re getting any support AT ALL is a gift. And you want to rally the pitchforks and start a class action lawsuit?
Look, obviously the chipping sucks and none of us want this to happen to our machines. But let’s be reasonable people about this.
Is it reasonable to expect them to order POTC parts, build up fully populated playfields, and ship them out for swaps? Absolutely not. I hate to use a cargument, but that’s like expecting Honda to send you an entirely new car because of a scratch on a door.
When the cost of producing and shipping a thing is high, the remedy is going to be repair rather than replacement. That’s just reality folks.
So far I think JJP has been extremely reasonable in addressing this. They put out a service bulletin on the issue, put out parts to work around it, and as an extra measure have offered discounted playfields to those who request them. In my view they’ve done everything they can do.
These machines are toys. They are not life or death, nor will they stay perfect and pristine forever. The purpose of them is to add joy to your life. Period. That is literally what they are designed to do. If you’re stressing out and obsessing about issues, friggin sell the thing and get it out of your life! Prices on POTC are still high and you’ll get a good return. Find something else where the happiness/stress ratio works better for you.
When things go wrong - and inevitably things do from time to time, this is pinball - being reasonable about it will get you better results than going full aggro outrage.
Have some empathy and common sense.

Harry has put heaps of effort into making everyone’s games better. His mods prove that he loves this game.

This phenomenon of chipping playfields is fairly new. Would be sad to accept that it is the norm going forward.

I have rippling around post’s and slight chipping. Fixing this has caused problems with slings which I have now resolved which is different to the JJP solution. I would hate to see my playfield deteriorate over the next 5 years. I spent an awful lot of money on this machine.

Maybe you are so rich that money is no issue. Good luck to you.

There is an issue with these playfields.

Micro will not offer any input. He knows there is no solution. Good luck with your Wonka playfield.

#1410 10 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

This whole thread has gone totally batshit crazy.
harryhoudini you bought a used (and ROUTED) machine - the fact you’re getting any support AT ALL is a gift. And you want to rally the pitchforks and start a class action lawsuit?
Look, obviously the chipping sucks and none of us want this to happen to our machines. But let’s be reasonable people about this.
Is it reasonable to expect them to order POTC parts, build up fully populated playfields, and ship them out for swaps? Absolutely not. I hate to use a cargument, but that’s like expecting Honda to send you an entirely new car because of a scratch on a door.
When the cost of producing and shipping a thing is high, the remedy is going to be repair rather than replacement. That’s just reality folks.
So far I think JJP has been extremely reasonable in addressing this. They put out a service bulletin on the issue, put out parts to work around it, and as an extra measure have offered discounted playfields to those who request them. In my view they’ve done everything they can do.
These machines are toys. They are not life or death, nor will they stay perfect and pristine forever. The purpose of them is to add joy to your life. Period. That is literally what they are designed to do. If you’re stressing out and obsessing about issues, friggin sell the thing and get it out of your life! Prices on POTC are still high and you’ll get a good return. Find something else where the happiness/stress ratio works better for you.
When things go wrong - and inevitably things do from time to time, this is pinball - being reasonable about it will get you better results than going full aggro outrage.
Have some empathy and common sense.

Seriously ZaphX? I did not downvote you. Why come here and make things toxic?

#1412 10 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

You don’t see it as toxic already?? I sure do, which is what moved me to post. I knew I’d get downvotes from the deranged pitchfork mob here. I did it anyway because someone has to stand up for common sense.

So drain the thread. Life is too short to get upset about this. I seriously was going to buy another playfield. Now I’m not sure. Why pay more money to get the same flawed product.

#1414 10 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

You don’t see it as toxic already?? I sure do, which is what moved me to post. I knew I’d get downvotes from the deranged pitchfork mob here. I did it anyway because someone has to stand up for common sense.

And I feel your fear that if we push this too far and all playfields had to be replaced fully populated than it would destroy JJP. That would be an catastrophe to pinball.

I love this game and will not sell it for the world. I think JJP have revived pinball with their passion and vision.

But as a consumer I have to make sure the product is going to last for me and not throw good money after bad to try and correct something that cannot be corrected.

#1415 10 months ago

Enough is enough. Micro should comment on this. Recognise that your playfields have issues.

#1449 10 months ago

Besides customer service and warranty issues 2 things have me worried:

1) replacement playfields have been made with the same process that created the chipping in the first place.
2) wonka playfields are being made in the same way.

So the problem will continue. Nothing learnt.

Again no word from Micro. Man up buddy. Take responsibility.

#1451 10 months ago

Crap. Here’s another one. Clear is coming away. Where I moved the “I” lane post. Crap, crap, crap. I feel so shit. And there’s nothing I can do about it. Never had this happen on any other pin.

Advise to all owners. Do not move any posts.

Am I meant to feel responsible? Jersey Jack makes me feel that way. I actually feel ill.

3A56B1F7-DBF5-43B1-8047-9380A6454F50 (resized).jpeg
#1459 10 months ago

And here’s the problem. Say you have a car with a defect. And then the manufacturer replaces it for you with a new one with the same problem. Problem solved? I don’t think so.

But in this case the buyer actually had to pay for the same defect!

Still no word from micro.

JJP should stop using micro or sit down with him and say FIX IT. Stop using thick clear. Come up with a more durable product. Otherwise it will cost JJP sales. Pirates was a small production run. Think of Wonka.

#1502 10 months ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Strange thing about this is my POTC has had very minimal dimpling for whatever reason, just prone to chipping.
Far less dimpling than any Stern I own.

Hang on. My playfield is dimpled like shit. Maybe that’s why I have ripples but limited chipping. My clear is softer and more pliable.

psw757 If you find an obscure part of your playfield and push your fingernail down, does it mark?

I wonder if yours is more prone to chipping because your clear is harder.

#1506 10 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I had the exact same worries when I did my JP playfield. I am sure the stuff isn't as great 4 weeks later, but I forgot about it in the fridge and tried it and it still seemed fine (I just sprayed on some cardboard). But I would easily say a week.

I thought clear nail polish was good for small repairs. Is this not the case?

1 week later
#1722 10 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

My apologies to You if that’s how you viewed my intentions or suggestions. Such is the keyboard for conversation. You and several others have a no question legitimate complaint. There is no Way a Playfield should look like that or breakdown to like that for any reason other then a mfg mistake or materials. Just agin wanted to suggest using Every means to get Your voice heard. Nothing more! Will it work? No clue? Just hope one of your methods can find you a solution as this game really is amazing to the point we are willing to fight amongst ourselves to make it right. Wish you the best.

I think what Dave was trying to communicate to JJP was numbers of people with this problem on their own forum.

This is an emotional issue where some people have been seriously burnt and others haven’t.

At the moment Eagle, Harry and Wes and others are feeling physically ill over the whole affair.

So tempers are flared. Hate to see relations of like minded pinheads who love this game and DO contribute to the hobby. Some of you are producing spectacular mods which show how much you love the game. It’s not all about profit, your passion shows. And the rest have helped me and others with tips and shared stories.

We all love the pirates game. We want it to be resolved so we can get back to playing.

#1736 10 months ago
Quoted from solarvalue:

This thread simply has to go into the "best of" compilation.

I’m fucking loving this thread!!! Best night of reading in ages!

#1811 10 months ago
Quoted from wesman:

Well, I read your post on the drive home from work, and mulled over my thoughts.
I guess for me, Jersey Jack Pinball has been a bit of a fantasy for me, since I first saw the Wizard of Oz and Dialed In, a year and a half ago in person.
Seeing those games, the wonders that they are, helped distract me from my current situation in life. Most of my friends for decades moved onward with families. Women and dating, never bore the fruit/s I'd hoped it would. Career choices never panned out the way I'd like them to have grown. Belief systems, whether religious or ethical, became obsolete and weighed down by life experience. Media, has felt retread, not refreshed, and ultimately repetitive. Family has gotten older, passed on, and even my two cats are becoming senior in age.
Fantasy was necessary. And Jersey Jack Pinball seemed to represent a sidestep from all those saddening aspects of life, in a way that felt magical, fresh, and called back to younger years where pinball thrived, was inventive, and playful.
This past year though, has seen the curtains of that fantasy fall ever downward. The Wizard exposed. The clouds a bit grayer where sun once shined.
From reading seriously on this game for months prior, then ownership, the reality of Jersey Jack Pinball, of pinball in general, has left me feeling more saddened than reality removed.
I feel at this point, personally I have three options in moving forward with my game, my Jersey Jack Pinball experience.
First, acceptance. Realizing and accepting the damage already done, and most likely more to come, and coming to just feel that's the way things will be with this game, or any other future game I'd fathom purchasing from them.
Another option is more contact, more frustration, more telephone calls and emails to JJP and Automated, and fighting more for what I feel I deserve as a customer, and most likely not getting that recognition.
Lastly, would be signing this letter. And for me, I feel that would be the final cutting stroke of this bond. A severance from buyer to manufacturer. A final cut, a line drawn, a flag waved, a cannon fired. There would be no going back for me, in my mind. The bond of good faith, from buyer to seller, seller to buyer, unabated, would be gone forever onward.
So that is where I'm at. Every avenue feels as if the dream of Jersey Jack Pinball is near death. The fantasy, now made reality. The distraction from the pain and rigors of my daily world, now a bit more inescapable than they were a year prior.
That, is why I am reluctant to sign.
I know the dream has been wounded, and is fading ever so quickly, but for me, signing a letter in this manner, one calculated and clinical versus from my own mind and heart, would only serve to severe a tie that I'm not quite ready to have die. Not just yet.
I do feel it will, but I'd rather have that death of fantasy, come directly from my own mouth, my own words, my own intent.
I do appreciate your efforts in all of this, and I do wish you the outcome you so desire, but for me, I must forge my own path, have my own fantasy come to it's end by my own voice.

Man, you made me all teary. I hate that. Going to go give my 2 cats a big hug. All the best with it Wes, I think you’re a good person.

Don’t mind Harry, he’s just getting fed up and a bit overwhelmed. He is a good person too.

#1812 10 months ago

Please just see this as a challenge to be overcome. Don’t let it break you. The sun still shines. And there is always pinside, which can be given a hiatus. Don’t let it get you down.

#1819 10 months ago
Quoted from wesman:

You're a decent heart on your sleeve kinda guy gumnut. You're passionate, forthright, and open about in how you present yourself. I can genuinely appreciate that.
I have no hard feelings towards anyone here. Everyone is their own person, and I can find value in that, whether I agree or disagree with their thoughts or views. Ideally anyway.
You should definitely hug your cats, or leave em' do cat things, whichever makes them and you happy. Cats are the best, though mine I feel mock me as I go off to work, and they sleep....more!
If you ever make it to the States, I wanna by you a beer, or whatever suits your fancy.

That is a very, very valid point. I guess I just feel, as much as JJP might have failed me, I feel I've failed them in being cross, speaking my mind in unflattering ways and such. Like not only have they failed my dream, but I betrayed it in turn.
Humans. We suck a good bit.

Likewise in Oz brother!

I have been working on this will share in the correct thread. Just want to share something cheerful about the game. Part cost me less than $10, just needs some tinkering with upper deck.

It will look awesome above Harry’s BP mod.

image (resized).jpg
1 week later
-1
#1919 9 months ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Well they currently aren't helping anyone with PFs so it's kind of a big diff'rence.

So I just got my first stern spike 2 game last night DP premium.

Besides the playfield issue there is no question which game is made to a higher quality. JJP May have made a mistake here but the rest of their kit is top shelf quality. I am not a JJP fanboy, but the difference in quality is astounding. I am also not making assertions about fun. My old TSPP has better quality then the new spike games and I always thought that was a clunker. Disappointing to see the amount of cost cutting that goes on to make profits. Hope Jjp keeps the standard high.

#1922 9 months ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

I don't even know what "quality" means or how you rate it...are you referring to the weight of the machine?
My JJP machine was littered with problems from design, mechs, clearcoat, and assembly. That's all I can say aboot them became that's what I have encountered personally.
But yeah man...that DI of mine is like, heavy as shit. Strong like bull!

Ok. Try pulling your playfield out. Grind clunk. Shooter lane wood, rough as guts. No posts with protectors at start of ramps and lanes. Manual is awful, tspp was great. Potc although not printed is awesome. Mechanism to remove lock down bar. Come on. Worlds apart. I still love this DP stern game and will rate it highly. But the issues I have had with POTC have now been put a bit into perspective. The playfield issue is bad but I’ve gotta say they get a lot of other things right.

#1962 9 months ago

The worst that seems to happen with CGC is ribbing (which I have on my AFMr) and cracking around the decals. I believe they do screen printing. I am fairly happy with my AFMr playfield.

#1970 9 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

CGC had issues with clear cracking (but the ink did not come up) on Medieval Madness playfields. I haven't seen the same problem on AfMr or MBr. Aside from getting the screen color layer COMPLETELY WRONG on some of the AfMr, they seem to have the least problems with their playfields.

Agree. The vertical ribbing does not bother me, but it was noticeable if I look for it. Great game. And playfield.

#2063 9 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

Cliffies and post protectors will not solve the problem, either. The jjPotC we have has a big chip (to the wood, no hint of ink left on the wood) where the forks come up. Basically, anywhere there's contact, the playfield ink and clear can separate down to the wood.

I have a tiny chip to the left of the left fork. Wondering if I should bend the fork a little so it does not rub. Would a cliffy work here?

#2074 9 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

My feeling was in such a high-traffic area, it's better to know and arrest it from getting worse with some mylar.

Good thinking. Will do the same when I put Harry’s mod in. I really recommend the star map as well. Mine had heaps of dimples.

#2100 9 months ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

12.5k doesnt get you any better quality control...
This game was just unboxed in this condition...[quoted image][quoted image]

Is that yours Kramer? Notice we share a bad cats too.

If so welcome to the club it’s awesome.

Yep rubber washers. I thought the CEs had metal washers installed underneath the slings.

#2149 9 months ago
Quoted from Bruce_Pickle:

Over 2000 posts and not one "My playfield is Kraken" jokes!

There are now

#2154 9 months ago
Quoted from cliff_clavin:

Harryhoudini, listen to the show as he discusses the issue and refers to you.

Had a listen. You’re famous Harry.

#2161 9 months ago
Quoted from cliff_clavin:

You should go on kanedas show. He treats his guests respectfully and your message would reach around 2000 listeners. Would not hurt your mod business either.
Cheers.

Just remember he does have it in for pirates. I don’t know why he continually says he does not get it? It’s not that hard. Qualify a chapter. Start a chapter. Shoot targets. Play a lot of multiballs. How can someone give reviews of a game when they have hardly played a working copy or taken the time to read up on it first? I actually find my Deadpool more hectic and confusing than pirates. I love them both, but you have to read the rule set before you give it a go.

And you have to play a machine that has been levelled and is working.

Kudos to him about how he does treat his guests. He was very respectful of zaphx..

And everything I have just said is not relevant to the topic at hand I know.

1 week later
#2207 9 months ago

Change the name to “Mirco, the man who killed pinball. “

#2212 9 months ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

Well this WAS the spot for the WWCF CE #12 -- It was all nice and ready for it to be inserted in and hopefully before my Annual Pinball Party that I have always have the week before the Chicago Expo.
JJP are you Listening?[quoted image][quoted image]

Deadpool would fit nicely there.

#2241 9 months ago
Quoted from kidchrisso:

I just picked up a NIB about 10 days ago. Late build but had the pooling look around the sling posts. I got the wife's hair dryer out today. I took the posts and plastics off, turned the hair dryer on low with heat and went to town. I used a credit card to help press and flatten the pooling back to flat. Worked each spot about 60-90 seconds. The heat applied was able to maneuver the clear and is once again flat, might have even helped with hardening. I reinstalled the posts, washers etc.... centering them absolutely perfect, not over cranking. So far so good, the pooling has not reappeared as of yet. I will report back in a week and let you know if it has held up.
p.S.… JJP, silence is NOT golden, and sending out bigger post to cover up... BRICKSHOT!! Not the way to handle this situation!

Why didn’t you use your hair dryer?

#2364 8 months ago

How did we get to killing off homeless people with pinball machines.....

#2405 8 months ago

In an ideal world, these chipping threads would be full of:

1) pinsiders reporting their chipped playfields with pictures
2) pinsiders reporting that they have raised it with the manufacturer and their distributor
3) pinsiders commenting out how they feel about the situation (once!), and how it will affect them.
4) pinsiders reporting on how their reported chipping issues were dealt with by the manufacturer.
5) news from the manufacturers and distributors on the situation
6) suggestions for fixing

The rest of the vitriol is getting really depressing. The nasty stuff that actually gets posted in these threads actually takes the focus away from the real issue here. Why should the manufacturers work towards fixing it if we’re just a bunch of jerks? They will never take us seriously when they see the content in these threads. Some of us are actually doing the original cause of disservice.

#2423 8 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

It's called a community and a hobby - not just an owners circle. If you prefer a circle of people panicing with no objective take or experience.. I guess you could start a new separate forum where only like minded pile-ons are allowed?
I'm not arguing any side.. I'm contributing my observations and experiences as well as others. The idea that there are 'sides' here is the problem with people who are emotionally vested and feel the need to lash out at people who don't simply fan the flames.

If you look at the start of this thread you will see where we as owners came up with solutions on how to overcome the problems as they occurred. We did not just sit there and cry. Incidentally in another chipping thread I suggested a solution for the post in JP2 that pools and chips next to the upper right flipper. I suggested where a clear plastic shield could be used at the top of this post and span the lane to the right and the other side of the flipper to create rigidity in a 3 post connection. For some reason you downvoted it. Seems you just like to criticise. So stop telling us we are all whiners.

#2438 8 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

And go back and find my posts about clear and washers too.. your point?

Why did I downvote your post? Because your solution was wrong and doesn't address the actual problem - as I noted in the reply.
Do you want me to post photos of all the posts on games that stand up fine without any top or side support? That's not why the post on JP is problematic. It's because it's mounted with a t-nut, not a friction fit post and nylon nut. A plastic on top isn't going to do anything... same way that the slingshot plastics don't keep the the sling starposts from chipping their blisters.
But I guess all you took away was that someone downvoted you. Here's a tissue.

I agree it’s not ideal, but I believe top support as well would help. Must be great to be so confident of your own solutions. If you downvote people when they make a suggestion they will stop posting. Then there will only be learned people like yourself left.

And btw, you are the one that complained about being shutdown and your opinion should be heard. But you love stomping on every other person’s opinion. Go back and look at how many times you say “wrong” to people.

-10
#2494 8 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

It was not the same person, please stop deflecting with lies. That's two in 10 minutes from you.

Quoted from robertmee:

I hear OneAngryMo has some business class miles to Melbourne

Quoted from Wickerman2:

You need to list the airport you want to meet at, check pinside fight club for pinball discussion fist fight rules. GLWS

What on earth are you all doing? Why start these sort of stupid comments? You all want to start hitting someone now?

For goodness sake Mr Pinball May be a rough diamond but he sure as hell looks after his customers. I have kept off this thread because he has taken care of my playfield issues at his OWN expense. How many of your American distributors said they would buy you all a new playfield. Radio silence. And what has he done to earn your animosity? Tell you to stop going round in circles and make sure you raise tickets with proof and then list your games here to show the extent. Rather than all the bickering and bullshit. And guess what? Jack is starting to do the right thing! This is partly due to Mr Pinball trying to help you guys out and now you want to punch him.

Good one.

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