(Topic ID: 242867)

PoTC - Who has playfield cracking & wear around sling posts?

By harryhoudini

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 3,006 posts
  • 224 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by PinDeadHead
  • Topic is favorited by 55 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“What kind of issues are you seeing?”

  • I have visible dimples but no chipping 47 votes
    22%
  • I can see chipping but haven't done anything yet 69 votes
    32%
  • I can see chipping and installed mylar, washer and/or larger star post 33 votes
    15%
  • My playfield looks fine (but I haven't removed the star posts) 33 votes
    15%
  • I removed the star posts and my playfield looks fine 16 votes
    7%
  • My game had clear washers installed from the factory 16 votes
    7%

(Multiple choice - 214 votes by 202 Pinsiders)

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Topic index (key posts)

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Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #306 Sling Post Remediation Efforts #1 Posted by harryhoudini (4 years ago)

Post #307 Sling Post Remediation Efforts #2 Posted by harryhoudini (4 years ago)

Post #432 Washer and Starpost Solution Posted by harryhoudini (4 years ago)


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#113 4 years ago
Quoted from gumnut01:

This is my bottom right. Basically every post has cut into the clearcoat. I have ripples in star post under BP ramp. I don’t have franks email. I will just raise a support form.
[quoted image][quoted image]

If you guys don't see this picture as a serious issue you're all damn fools. Clear coat should NEVER roll like this. You guys are in for a major shit storm on those POTC machines.

#123 4 years ago

You guys are up shits crick with the clear coat on those. Look at how the clear literally rolled out/away from the post in the one picture. Clear coat shouldn't do that.

1 week later
#734 4 years ago

The problem is the clearcoat guys end of story. It's all over the playfield which means your problem also exists all over the playfield. Any edge will very likely crack/chip. The other issue shown in multiple pictures is the artwork pulls up/off the playfield. I have a horror story on a different pf from the same pf company ... but to keep it short I was told (yes I have email proof) that the clear coat is intentionally soft and that it "will" chip if protectors weren't used. (See previous pics in thread showing where the clear is actually rolled on the outside of the post.)
Your POTC playfields are experiencing the EXACT same issue that I and another guy went through. Clearcoat chipping, ink underneath coming up with it, clearcoat rolling. So, if it "will" crack/chip and hole protectors "must" be used... ask yourselves why these games weren't installed with the necessary protection let alone documentation stating you really should add them? Bottom line is any current in stock playfields is also extremely likely to suffer the same fate and swapping playfields would be "maddeningly unhelpful" (that's a POTC Worlds end quote) lol.
I see why people are scrambling to apply whatever band aid they can due to the uncertainty they face. I suspect the waiting is simply to get as many machines past the year warranty. The liability goes away.
Guys all I have to say is if you plan on swapping playfields, request a non cleared pf and request they ship it directly to Ron Kruzman. $300 for the best freaking clearcoat you can ask for that will LAST, not require cliffys and look brand new even after 100 plays. Seriously the guy is a God.

#745 4 years ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Kind of an unrealistic request but they need to offer populated pf’s in my opinion.
Should be a plug and play fix to the extent possible.

I concur 1000% but that my good man is a pipe dream. No way in hell will they spend the money to send a populated playfield let alone pay a local shop of your choosing to make a playfield swap.

2 weeks later
#1012 4 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

I am tempted to buy a pf and send it out to Kruzman for a better clear

I think everyone interested should demand that JJP offers an uncleared version (which would cut initial cost) and send it to Ron Kruzman. Seriously I cannot recommend him enough. Mircos clear coat is just terrible.

#1135 4 years ago
Quoted from solarvalue:

It may be a general issue with digitally printed playfields which all these companies are now using.

Might be right but there"s two things I think you're not taking into accoint.
1.) When the supplier says MUST use hole protectors or the clear will crack and chip (game ships without them)
And
2.) The clear coat is intentionally made soft and the clear coat rolls (and pulls up artwork) installing a post?
JJP needs to tell Mirco his ass is on the line and either he fixes his bullshit clear jobs or he'll take the business else where.
My hobbit clear job looks like a golf ball and the holes started to crack so I added Cliffys.
Good ole Mirco clear jobs I tell ya.

Jack needs to invest in Ron Kruzman. That guy is a God of clear coating. Mirco can make the playfield and Ron can clear coat em. Oh, I also have a routed and well played LOTR. NO ball dents. Kruzman clear job... ~100 plays still like glass and no divots. Pun intended clearly not all clear coats are equal. By saying nothing, nothing changes. The so called fix is a band aid while the real problem is the clear itself and last time I checked that's every where. Expected to pay for a new playfield is bad enough but being on the hook for swapping it too? Ouch guys that's taking it s bit too far. The car anology is the best. You bought a Ferrari and the paint is coming off and your handed a bandaid to stop the peeling? Seriously guys step up and make some noise because if you dont it's literally setting a precedence for future machines.

If I find out Harry Potter or Toy Story 4 is being made I WILL demand a bare inked playfield is sent to Ron Kruzman and then shipped to JJP for install.

4 weeks later
#1363 4 years ago
Quoted from Soulrider911:

Got my replacement playfield made some side rails and it’s going on the wall next to the stern playfield as art until I need it [quoted image]

In the apron area, try pressing a finger nail into it. I'd be shocked if it didnt indent. If it does you have basically the same exact clear job. If that machine is a keep for you then I'd send it off to get a professional clear coat job. Please post the finger nail results.

#1381 4 years ago
Quoted from Soulrider911:

Proof is in the pudding, brand new playfield,epic fail on the fingernail test...
To contrast that test, I walked over and did the same test on a Kruzman cleared creature playfield... nothing.[quoted image]

Thank you. As I suspected, the replacement playfields are also affected by the subpar clear. I don't own a POTC but I highly recommend you guys pursue a class action lawsuit. Wonka is proof JJP has no interest in fixing the clear coat issue (let alone Mirco) and by charging POTC owners $550 plus $75 shipping for a crap playfield is just unacceptable. It's about like removing a defective air bag and installing a new defective air bag. Should a legal suit come about I think stipulation of exactly what is considered playfield defect/s, requirement issues must be reported within the one year warranty and only obtainable by original owner. Reperation ideas ... considering the clear issue there's really only a couple options. Buy back (you eat shipping), JJP eats replacement pf cost (option that allows you to pay to get it professionally clear coated or use as is) and then pays to have a shop swap it for you or better yet you send them your playfield (you eat shipping) and they perform the swap.
Anyway just a few ideas. At the end of the day JJP needs to own this. Offering damage cover up discs is ludicrous and charging the customer anything for their mistake is even more ludicrous. Best of luck ladies and gents.

10
#1419 4 years ago

"like expecting Honda to send you an entirely new car because of a scratch on a door."

Mr. Common sense, let's put this in REAL perspective since you just compared apples to potatoes. This is not a "scratch" this is clearcoat AND paint coming off. In the automobile industry this would be a factory recall for the clear coat alone and all you have to do is get your automobile to a shop and they take care of it.
I've owned 2 vehicles in my life with this EXACT issue and both times GM filed a recall and it cost me nothing. THAT is how you take care of people. Talk about a "tail light warranty". They get away with shit like this because of people like you willing to bow down and serve the master. Not this guy.

#1475 4 years ago
Quoted from arzoo:

This^^^, this is the reason JJP can't do what should be done - repair or replace the defective playfields, fully populated, at no cost to the consumer. JJP can't absorb that kind of loss. There have been a lot of comparisons to auto manufacturers repairing defective paint or whatever, but those companies are huge compared to JJP and have repair/recall/replacement costs built in to their business models. JJP obviously does not. But this is no excuse. When a small company produces a defective product, they may go under, that's just the harsh reality of doing business. I certainly don't want to see that happen to JJP (or any pinball company), and I'm sure most of us would agree on that. So the question becomes, are we as the consumers of an expensive niche market product, willing to take the loss (devaluation) just to keep the businesses afloat?

When you open your doors regardless of size you take care of your customers or you eventually close your doors. Nobody in their right mind is going to buy a JJP now that DI AND Wonka are plagued with the crap clear issue. They've shown us how many times now that their product failures are to be paid for by the customer. WOZ board disaster ... customers have to eat it. Playfield debacle.... customer have to eat it (being replaced with the same flawed product no less.... nice). If they think with that business model they'll keep their doors open they're sorrily mistaken. Decide, lose money but keep current customers or keep your money, and lose current and future customers eventually shutting your doors. It's really that simple. But this thread has proven one thing, there are some people in this world with more money than brains and are willing to put up with this and give Jack a get out of jail free card. Unfortunately Jack is on the hook for this. If he gets sued then he'll be forced to sue Mirco. Friends or not business is business.

#1493 4 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

This thread got me worried about my hobbit play field so I gave it a close inspection and did not find any issues anywhere on the play field. Are there widespread issues with the hobbit play fields too?

I own one. The playfield looks like a dimplefest orgy (oh well) but the clear started to crack around the holes so I installed Cliffys. Everything else is solid on it. It's a BA edition so a later run but I have yet to see anyone with a Hobbit dealing with clear coat pooling around the posts or chipping around the posts either.

2 weeks later
#1877 4 years ago

The ink isn't adhering to the wood, a weak foundation does not a strong house make. The clear coat was made intentionally soft. That was told to me in an email from the manufacturer so the idea of it not being "cured" is not correct. Now take into account that kruzman can clear a play field and IIRC he said he generally waits a few weeks for curing to occur and for arguments sake let's say a month and it gets installed and no issues like this. I've read several HEP restore stories. Never read any issues there either. Machine is ready to beat on right away. Ask yourselves with what appears to be a 2 tier issue what's the fix?
I do feel really bad for all the owners, god speed on finding resolution.

1 week later
12
#1994 4 years ago
Quoted from zaphX:

This is what I've been saying all along. By going ballistic and making legal threats, the well is now poisoned and goodwill is out the window.
I've been pleading all along for people to be logical, rational and reasonable. All it got me was a ton of downvotes.

With all due respect, I've read this thread from day 1 and you have appeared like a gladiator protecting JJP and dismissing an issue and trying to make your opinion as factual not taking into account not everyone is like you... willing to accept a sub par product and a so called resolution that hides the issue paired with somehow a $550 (plus shipping) replacement playfield with the EXACT same garbage clear coat issue. You may feel satisfied with JJPs efforts which is fine, but you crossed the line when you more or less started to tell others how they should feel. Again, with all due respect, your down votes were very much well deserved (in my opinion not fact).

#2054 4 years ago
Quoted from dts:

My main concern right now is this: if you get a replacement playfield for $550, what evidence is there that the ink has been applied any differently than the first batch of playfields?

Because obviously people who complain are willing to buy one? LOL
Seriously this thread is insane. We've already proven the replacement play field is no better than the original and people still buy one. Not sure what part of "softer clear coat being used" and "ink adherance problem" isn't being translated correctly?. Time isn't going to fix the playfield. It's a faulty product that other play fields from the same manufacturer are plagued with as well. You're a bunch of ding dongs I tell ya.
1.) Sell your game
2.) Enjoy your game
There's your options. Its blatantly clear that JJP isn't able to help you. They have no better/improved product to provide you and likely why they have remained quiet. Common sense is a bitch. Your playfield will continue to deteriorate so buy cliffys and post protectors. It's literally your only option if you keep it.

#2080 4 years ago
Quoted from WoodpilePin:

I don't have any chipping that I see, however my display has these red streaks that are constantly running through it now. I am not sure if anyone else has experienced this and has an idea how to fix? Any help would be appreciated.[quoted image]

Could be the LCD, video cable, cable on the back of the LCD or the video on the motherboard. Isolate the monitor. If you have a laptop plug the monitor into that. If the issue remains swap cables. There should be an option in the monitor setup itself to restore defaults. Do it. If the issue still exists you likely need your LCD replaced.

#2113 4 years ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

12.5k doesnt get you any better quality control...
This game was just unboxed in this condition...[quoted image][quoted image]

As hard as this might be, I suggest you call the vendor and demand a replacement or a severely reduced price. People need to stop accepting this piss poor quality and trying to somehow pass it off as "normal" let alone acceptable. Hint... it's neither. Best of luck to you!

#2134 4 years ago

JJP cant dispute this issue is happening but they can turn a blind eye to it (and basically they have as the post "fix" is hardly that). You have a 1 year warranty, the clock has pretty much run out right?
Since Wonka is also showing clear coat pooling issues, one would assume this will sour the masses from buying anymore new product knowing the chances of getting a crap Mirco playfield is almost inevitable. I certainly fall in that category.
I do want to say, the helpdesk portion of JJP is pretty darned awesome. In fact, it's clearly the best part of JJP!

#2139 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Welp, looks like elvis left the building:
In Transit 08/14/2019 8:33 P.M. Lakewood, NJ, United States
Past Event Shipped 08/14/2019 7:44 P.M. Lakewood, NJ, United States
Past Event Label Created 08/14/2019 3:57 P.M. United States

With all due respect my good man, I fear you just pissed money down your leg. What did you gain by buying a playfield we've already determined to be defective..... plagued with soft clear and almost assuredly ink adherance issues? Seriously why?

1 week later
#2197 4 years ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

I AM OUT on WWCF CE #12

Good for you! I'm a firm believer in "power in numbers", I wish all the resellers would nut up and tell JJP no more orders until this issue has been resolved.
Let's face it, not many of us have the skills to do a playfield swap and expecting us to pay for a replacement when it was just a subpar factory installed product is ludicrous.

Quoted from harryhoudini:

Well, crazy but the new playfield seems solid. Can't make a nail mark in it.

Uneven clear coat is not uncommon when it comes to this manufacturer. I suggest installing 2 star posts in 2 very different areas and monitor it over a day or two. Trust me, if the clear starts to pool around the post, remove the post and it'll level itself back out. But the sad part is you'll likely see the artwork coming up with it (obviously you got a bunk playfield). If it doesn't pool the next thing to check/expect is when removing the posts you'll see a fairly obvious and fairly deep indent (once again showing the use of soft clear coat. OR - you just might be one of those scarce lucky souls who got a good playfield! (rooting for the latter).
Ya know, the chances are the factory installation never experienced pooling was probably pretty good. I'll venture a guess that the torque on the playfield causes the ink to "eventually" pull up and the clear coat loses it's anchor and that's when the pooling occurs. The clear coat has to go some where. Path of least resistance if you will.

#2237 4 years ago
Quoted from Crile1:

If I ever sell it, the value is still there.

Are you saying that a pin you are interested in is listed as "mint" or "collector" condition. You look at it and it's absolutely the condition they listed it as WITH EXCEPTION to the playfield which has some pretty serious cracking/chipping - but since it's a JJP title and you're willing to pay full asking price and just accept this is the new normal?

#2271 4 years ago

Maybe his "trip" is going to Germany to see WTF Mirco is doing wrong. Jack is WELL aware of playfield issues (he sold me a Funhouse pf) and it was beyond worthless. It too had pooling, chipping, cracking and mis drilled holes (not only mis drilled 1/8" but crooked!) I offered to ship it back and radio silence. After I filed a charge back (snd won), then Jack suddenly wanted it back. Being a man of my word I shipped it and requested he personally look at it and if my word holds true I'd like the shipping refunded. It cost me $80 to shop that junk back and he never did refund me let alone reply about it.

#2345 4 years ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

I ship playfields with just ink if a customer wants to do it themselves or send on to Ron. I wrap the playfield in brown paper, 2 layers to ink side. Same with clear coated playfields. Then it goes into double cardboard box. Same as CPR, I like to think I do a fraction of 1% of their huge parts business.

You're a great person to ask this question too because you DO THIS type of work. Ink adherance issues. Why would this be happening and how do you fix this? Is it the quality/brand of ink or? And believe me, I wish like hell these manufacturers would offer a custom shop option. JJP sends a bare inked playfield to Kruzman or HEP or whomever else of your choosing to do the clear. Kruzman has proven that dimples aren't "normal" and that quality clear does exist and is absolutely obtainable. He would get my business every single time. However I can absolutely see theyd have to train the assembly people not to go hulk mode either.

#2391 4 years ago
Quoted from GnarLee:

I disagree. It is my property to do as I wish with. The machine already has a high voltage warning when you open the coindoor. I would just add a warning to the outside of machine the reiterates there is high voltage on the inside of machine. No court of my peers would convict me based on some asshole trying to rob me.

Laws vary state to state, however here's a true story. Back in the 90's a friend of mine kept getting his car stereo stolen. He soldered fish hooks all along the back top of the sleeve. Eventually he was greeted with a bloody mess in his car. That thief sued him and won. This was in Iowa FWIW.

#2448 4 years ago

Warning blanket statement alert
FACT - the ink is not adhering
FACT - the clear is intentionally soft
FACT - the clear is pulling up the ink
FACT - pooling around posts
FACT - some chipping is occurring
FACT - adding post washers has shown eventually pooling happens around those
FACT - JJP isn't owning their F-up (yeah it's Mircos crap but JJP sold it)
FACT - this is NOT happening on every single machine. The actual percentage is unknown.
FACT - you're entitled to your opinion. You are however NOT entitled to tell others how they should feel or what they can/cannot do. That makes you nothing short of an argumentative asshole and denying facts makes you plain dumb.

#2455 4 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

This one I would not list as a fact. The actual mechanic is unclear. Ink isn't adhering, and clear is soft and pooling, but to say that the clear is responsible for the ink separation is a stretch given the current knowledge. So that one I would scratch.

Ive owned a crap Mirco playfield for a FH. Had the exact same " issues" these new machines have. The ink isn't adhering because if it was it wouldnt come up with the clear pooling. Look at all the pictures of chipping. The ink is gone. Another thing to take notice is the clear apparently is staying down in non inked spots. To me my statement is accurate?

1 week later
#2587 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Drive by posting.
1. No call from JJP, no credit on my card. Anyone get one?
2. Here is a pic of the playfield as of today, with my test post. The clear is definitely much harder. I cranked this post down to what I would consider tight but not ridiculous. Probably not more than 1/4 turn past snug. I think the visible indentation is not horrible but I didn't peek at any other games to compare. I am fairly sure my TOM, which has the playfield empty right now, does not have those kinds of rings. But, if it doesn't dimple and pool I'm ok with that. This has been about 2 weeks or so, I can't recall.
3. Does no one on this forum have a durometer? Looks like they can be had for around $30 on Amazon. I might just grab one to test various playfields I have, just for fun. I am surprised we haven't talked about this before.[quoted image]

That's completely acceptable marking on the pf. The really amazing part is I have seen really nicely done Mirco playfields before. He changed something along the way and it's absolutely for the worse. We should see the "new" results in the next JJP release.

1 week later
#2606 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Guys... anyone here get a refund at all?
Seems like this is losing traction after promises were made.

Good luck with that. You've likely pissed off Jack and when he's mad you get "jack shit". I filed a charge back on a crap playfield (same clear issues PLUS way more f-ed up) well before you started this and he asked me to ship it back which I did. Ive never beaten anyone out of a nickle and I'm sure as hell not going to start now. I asked him to refund my $80 shipping if he found exactly what I reported. As you can guess....radio silence and no refund. That's been about 6 months ago. If I can't get $80 you sure as hell aren't getting $500 plus. Congrats, you just learned about the "martyr tax".

#2611 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Heh, I'm not going to just let it go. I just wanted to gather some data, to know if ANYONE is getting results from this. Sounds like lip service at this point, which was already my experience on the phone with Jack. I'll start with emails and calls and if that doesn't work then I'll be contesting my credit card charge, among other things. I feel like the investors probably don't want to start getting calls from pinball owners.

FYI - "Most" companies have a 30 day from the purchase date to file a charge back. After that you're SOL.

4 weeks later
#2669 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Ah screw it, I disputed the transaction. After looking at the dates, the interactions I've had with Jack and his ignoring of my subsequent contacts I'm done. JJP still doesn't get it and barely stepped up like we all gave them credit for.

Here's my shocked face *sarcasm*
I suspect after this goes through and you win (which you will), you'll be red flagged. Your support tickets will start going unanswered.

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