(Topic ID: 242867)

PoTC - Who has playfield cracking & wear around sling posts?

By harryhoudini

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 3,006 posts
  • 224 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by PinDeadHead
  • Topic is favorited by 57 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“What kind of issues are you seeing?”

  • I have visible dimples but no chipping 47 votes
    22%
  • I can see chipping but haven't done anything yet 69 votes
    32%
  • I can see chipping and installed mylar, washer and/or larger star post 33 votes
    15%
  • My playfield looks fine (but I haven't removed the star posts) 33 votes
    15%
  • I removed the star posts and my playfield looks fine 16 votes
    7%
  • My game had clear washers installed from the factory 16 votes
    7%

(Multiple choice - 214 votes by 202 Pinsiders)

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Topic index (key posts)

3 key posts have been marked in this topic

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #306 Sling Post Remediation Efforts #1 Posted by harryhoudini (4 years ago)

Post #307 Sling Post Remediation Efforts #2 Posted by harryhoudini (4 years ago)

Post #432 Washer and Starpost Solution Posted by harryhoudini (4 years ago)


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#1021 4 years ago

How many hours do you think it would take to change the whole playfield?
I guess you have to start marking all wires and nuts/bolts, then document everyone of them.
Maybe video during disasembly etc?

So, are we talking 80 hrs? More?

#1081 4 years ago
Quoted from Psw757:

I don’t have time for that...absolutely absurd.
If I’m going to have to pay, I’d rather just buy a populated PF for the convenience.
How much are these at discount? $1000? 1200?....?

If you buy a populated playfield (if that is even possible?), what's to say, you wouldn't have new chippings in a couple of months?

#1082 4 years ago

The overall question:
Was production halted due to license issues, or was it halted because they where cutting costs, to get neccesary profit, and cost minimizing breached into quality, so heavy that they had to halt production, to save company image?

I for one like to see this company sustain and proliferate. They make beautiful art-like products, with great rulesets.
I think it would be in their best interst to come clear about the concerns and issues.Most customers would probebly be understanding.
There is ofcourse risk that such action might make even more people voice their opinion on compensation, with economic damage to the company, but maybe that can be circumvented in some other solution for thoose buying potc, before the problem was known.

#1084 4 years ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Here are some I saved from various threads here, greatest hits I guess! Lol
There are some that are worse around the tortuga and map hole but didn’t save them, likely in the owners thread if you feel inclined to search for them.
Enjoy![quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

The chipping near the potholes and on the sidelanes, suggest that this problem isn't an exclusive sharp-post problem.

#1095 4 years ago
Quoted from dts:

They ordered enough parts for 1000 machines, got bogged down in production delays, then had to move on to the next game.

Sorry to say, i don't understand what you mean?
You mean there are trouble keeping The license going?
What Will this mean regarding future availability for spare parts?
IF this is The case, why are there still speculations of a future toystory pin?
Who would want to do buissness with Disney in regards to licensing aftur such a debacle?

#1096 4 years ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

Not sure that is completely true. Joe at PinSTAR indicated my SE was a recent run.

Another issue for me contemplating buying a rrwoz or a hobbit nib, is ofcourse if production change in regards to coating/varnish renders having later produced hobs and woz having The same issues?

#1102 4 years ago
Quoted from Ilushka85:

My ybr has the same issues in clear and same sharp posts.

That is terrible News. If wonka comes up with the same problems.
Alarmbells should be ringning, if they aren't allready.
I'm as a potential customer is certainly alarmed.

#1105 4 years ago
Quoted from mountaingamer:

Wonka uses star posts

So then it might only be cracked playfields around holes and in the outlanes.
How is that in any way reassuring

#1109 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

So... what are you contentious folks planning on doing? Is anyone going to try and negotiate a better deal or coordinate a group of people to brigade against JJP with some media or coordinated effort? Just wondering, before I plop money down on a playfield.

I would really love to see a public comment from The company, surely this hasn't gone unnoticed.

#1154 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

This is like saying Chevy needs to invest in Chip Foose (or any other custom car builder). You can't take a custom job like Kruzman's MULTIPLE week and months process and think the mass producers need to 'just do what he's doing'.
They are apples and oranges. Kruzman can't do 500+ PFs a month... he can't even do a handful in volume.
It's just pissing in the wind... to compare a custom, hand nurtuered, slow cure, multi-stage process with mass production. It doesn't work for cars... it doesn't work for pinball either.

Well, ihave a friend with an original mm.
He doesnt have any chipping, so maybe chevy needs to go back to doing what they did 20 years ago.
This ofc also make The argument of there are too many boards having to be made completely invalid.

#1155 4 years ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

Sorry to say, i don't understand what you mean?
You mean there are trouble keeping The license going?
What Will this mean regarding future availability for spare parts?

Or in short in regards to licensing and playfields.
Will anybody who wants to produce spare playfields and sideart in five to ten years, be f'ed in the a by disney attorneys?

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#1159 4 years ago
Quoted from gumnut01:

Don’t use nylon washers. Get yourselves neoprene rubber.

Doesn´t neoprene get dry and crack over time?
Whatabout fiber washers?

#1223 4 years ago
Quoted from playernumber4:

Buy the new playfield at the discounted price, and let it hang on the wall as an art piece for 5 years. By then it will be well cured and wood hardened up too, thereby reducing divots.
When you get around to it replace it.

And if it"s not The curing that is The problem, you would have wasted 500$ and Another 1000$ or so changing The board.

4 weeks later
#1437 4 years ago

I thought it was well written harry (maybe im not to say, being swedish)

What it may lack is the tone of wanting to resolve and find common ground.
Maybe like a suggestion in the likes of assurance of the problems beeing sorted, and a heavily reduced price on a sorted playfield. Maybe with some unique trait or plack appriciating the patient customers.

Just a suggestion (maybe a bad one)

1 week later
#1524 4 years ago
Quoted from Audioenslaved:

I haven’t got money in the game but seeing the issues you guys are having has really got me sitting on the fence regarding buying a new or second hand Pirates. Look at what stern did for ghostbusters. Enough said right. Major problem fixed with an appropriate solution. Money lost in the short term for long term customer satisfaction and retention. I love my WOZ and enjoyed hobbit when I had it, I can’t get into dialed in and I want a Pirates but not with these issues

The beatles seem to have the same problem as pirates and similar to pirates, there's no resolve.
I think for the manufacturers it's nothing to sort out a single game with a malfunction/construction
However, resolving a whole productline, is an entirely different issue, which honestly may even put the company at risk.

#1589 4 years ago
Quoted from zaphX:

No ties. I'm just empathetic. They are a growing business, and setbacks like this can be catastrophic.
If the playfield was sanding off everywhere, I'd be more upset. So far it's localized to the posts which can be hidden from view, so I'm ok with it. Not thrilled mind you, obviously all we want solid playfields, but I can deal.
I honestly believe the folks at JJP want to do right by their customers and want them to be happy.
I do believe their playfield offer is a reasonable one, but we disagree on that point and that's fine.
I also think you catch more flies with honey than with legal threats (which immediately shut any company down and put them into defense mode.)

There is some reason to this, but if it's the same issue with wonka?

#1600 4 years ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I guess the impedance mismatch here is that I am ok "meeting them halfway" because I want them to keep making great pinball machines. Not everyone in the thread is. I do respect your opinions and emotions on the issue.
I strongly suspect the $550 playfield offer is cost. If they were to give those free, to all 1000 buyers, that is a $550k loss.
I'm sure we all agree what a great game POTC is, otherwise everyone would be dumping them and moving on.
Do you want to make the best pinball game made in the last decade a complete financial failure for them?

The merit of my post was intended to be, on sorting issues. Keeping up a design flaw seems utterly strange.
Many manufacturers Theese days build their product to only last for a while?
Just look at cars, kitchen appliances, or what ever.

Are consumers of theese very expensive toys however aware that their toys will run out within a ten year span?
JJP has crap playfield, that will look like a potatofield within that time, Stern that spike (good luck finding replecement board for www-game in a couple of years), Chicago gamling has one board to rule them all.

I think most Williams titles, will outlive them all.

#1627 4 years ago
Quoted from dts:

It seems reasonable that Mirco himself would guarantee the quality of the work. If not, perhaps JJP should turn to CGC to do their playfields in the future, using the time proven silk screen method.

I´m totally amazed they are using mirco-crap for wonka.
The cat must be totally out of the bag, so why?

#1760 4 years ago
Quoted from wesman:

Thought about the situation a bit, and here's what I feel would be fair to all parties involved.
In an attempt to be transparent, JJP acknowledges and addresses whatever the issues might have been publicly, whether it's employee training, poor end line quality control checks, Mirco sending either low level or poorly manufactured playfields, or a combination of all of the above.
At that point customers within one year of ownership, present photos of damage, and within those photos, price points for a new playfield are determined.
Let's say three tiers.
Tier 1: Beginning of/definable ripples on any posts of apparatus on the playfield.
$300, and shipped for free.
Tier 2: Chipped areas around posts or any apparatus on the playfield.
$200, and shipped for free.
Tier 3: Ripples, chips, tears, damage past and including tier 1.
$0, and shipped for free.
Assuming $550 is the baseline of cost for JJP, if not even a bit lower, and the customer would already be responsible for swapping the playfield entirely, I feel this tier structure would be more than fair to JJP.
None of us with damage, wish JJP ill will, financial loss, or any other damage. We also don't want damage to our own games within such a brief period of ownership, and I feel a transparent statement, and offer, would do a great deal of goodwill for all involved.
Thoughts?

I think this is a very good suggestion, given the pf issues are sorted.

1 week later
#1928 4 years ago
Quoted from zaphX:

It's a tough job, predicting the future.
Predict too high and you've lost a bunch of money on inventory you can't sell.
Predict too low and you're leaving money on the table with unmet demand.
Given the high cost, parts turnaround and assembly time of pinball...it's a tough racket.

What about spareparts? Should buyers worry?

2 weeks later
#2145 4 years ago

I sure hope for the next meunier game, we will see mirco kicked to the curb, would be terrible to see Another potentially great game ruined.

I"m in if mirco is out.

2 weeks later
#2331 4 years ago
Quoted from dts:

Some more information on the playfield issue. Mirco is experimenting with different clearcoats on Wonka. .

Maybe someone Could call crapco and explain to him that the experimenting is something you do BEFORE you sell a functional finalized product, but maybe that's beyond his ability?

I just can"t understand why they use this joke of a manufacturer for wonka.

#2461 4 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

No, you have connected two dots with no proof. If the ink isn't adhering it isn't adhering. If the clear is pooling it's pooling. You can GUESS that the clear is pulling the ink up, but you can't list it as a FACT. That's the point. Theories are theories. Facts require proof. You have no proof of the mechanics of how that separation happens (i.e. the clear is PULLING the ink up), just that it does.
That's all. It's just one point on your list. Let it go. It's not a fact.

Is the ink even applied to the wood?
What if the wood is prepared with some agent first and then the ink is attached?

Any way you slice it, the clear is obviously way to soft.

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