(Topic ID: 242867)

PoTC - Who has playfield cracking & wear around sling posts?


By harryhoudini

34 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 1,255 posts
  • 116 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 hours ago by joseph5185
  • Topic is favorited by 36 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“What kind of issues are you seeing?”

  • I have visible dimples but no chipping 21 votes
    18%
  • I can see chipping but haven't done anything yet 40 votes
    34%
  • I can see chipping and installed mylar, washer and/or larger star post 17 votes
    14%
  • My playfield looks fine (but I haven't removed the star posts) 20 votes
    17%
  • I removed the star posts and my playfield looks fine 11 votes
    9%
  • My game had clear washers installed from the factory 10 votes
    8%

(Multiple choice - 119 votes by 114 Pinsiders)

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#301 32 days ago

I emailed Frank at JJP asking if I could get the washers that were used on the CE models
2 days later still no replie.. why cant they just sell us the washers that some factory installed games came with ? Seems like an easy fix to prevent damage

#302 32 days ago

Check previous posts. A ce owner with these metal washers has chipping.

#303 32 days ago

Does anybody have any connection to JJP? It would be good to know they acknowledge this and are working on a solution. I understand if they don’t have one yet. Can any distributor ask? Any advice Lloyd?

#304 32 days ago
Quoted from mtp78:

I emailed Frank at JJP asking if I could get the washers that were used on the CE models
2 days later still no replie.. why cant they just sell us the washers that some factory installed games came with ? Seems like an easy fix to prevent damage

My ce had no washers and has the issue.

#305 31 days ago

Frydaddy has metal washers on his ce and has chipping. Not a solution. As I said can someone who has Frank’s or Jack’s ear ask them to tell us if they are working on a fix. We don’t need to know what it is, just that they care and are working on it.

#306 31 days ago

Conglomerated Sling Post Remediation Efforts

Basically I am trying to combine all of the causes and remediation (bandaids) for the sling post playfield cracking issues. Nothing here should be considered an absolute suggestion nor a fix, we are simply trying to mitigate issues as best as possible until the manufacturer takes a stance.

***** The Situation *****
It appears as though the plastic sling posts that JJP used in a subset of POTC machines, across all models, had a sharp lip on the bottom which, possibly combined with an over tightening of the metal threaded standoff post caused the sharp edge of the plastic post to dig in to the clear coat and playfield causing ripples and eventual cracking.

JJP Sharp Lip On Sling Post
Sharp Lip Compared with Normal
Cracked Playfield
Cracked Playfield

This issue is most prominent on the sling posts, possibly due to the extra tension that the posts were screwed down with (users reporting these hard to unscrew) or possibly due to the abrupt motion the sling coils cause through normal operation. This motion, and possibly the ball hitting the posts or rubber, may cause the sling posts to move which could contribute to the slicing/cracking of the playfield.

This issue could extend to other similar, narrow plastic posts on the playfield and even metal or larger plastic star posts. While these other posts may not have a sharp edge the clear coat on the playfield seems soften or may be more prone to rippling and bunching around tightened down posts.

Other Posts In Question
Large Star Post Already Used In Game Puckering

Age of game, number of plays and model (SE, LE, CE) does not seem to matter. The issue has been seen across a variety of ages and models and even newer games with the manufacturer installed washers have started to see some issues (although with less instances and severity).

Playfield Puckering

****** Manufacturing Changes? ******
Sometime during the manufacturing process of the POTC machines JJP apparently realized the issue (or due to being reported by pinside users) and made a series of changes to how these posts were installed. At some point the posts were either changed or fixed to not have the sharp lip on the bottom. As well, at some point, a combination of different washers were used on the bottom of the posts. Some users report narrow clear washers, some report larger metal washers, some report washers on 2 of the 3 posts. There does not seem to be any consistency except that this change was implemented somewhere near the middle of production. If you do have washers you are less likely to have issues with indentations, cracking and flaking of the playfield. Issues may appear later or be less severe but that does not mean you should ignore this situation.

JJP Installed Large Metal Washers on a CE
JJP Installed Narrow Clear Washer

****** Do I Need To Worry? ******
Long and short, yes. It seems like the playfields are susceptible to damage from pressure of items on the playfield. Even users who have put additional support under the posts have reported indentations from those support items after days of installation. Even if your playfield shows no signs of issue you should strongly consider some sort of remediation effort to protect your playfield.

****** What is JJP Doing About This? ******
Nothing, as far as we know. Several users have emailed or called to discuss the issue, sent images of their games and so far all responses have been of the "we are looking in to it" or "we'll get back to you" nature. In fact, one user reported this to Jack himself over 3 months ago and got, more or less, a non-response. If you haven't yet reported this issue you might consider emailing images of your playfield to Frank (Technical Support) at frank@jerseyjackpinball.com

****** What Should I Do? ******
A combined effort of pinsiders has resulted in a few distinct and possibly beneficial changes that may preserve your playfield. These are NOT fixes, merely ways we have all shared to help preserve what we have as best we can until a resolution from JJP is had.

1. Check your sling posts. Unscrew the nuts holding the plastic on, take off the plastic and rubber and unscrew the posts. If they have a sharp edge on the bottom it is suggested you either sand off the sharp edge or replace the posts. You can try replacing them with the same size or many others are choosing to use a larger star post found commonly on many other games (https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/03-8319-13 ... or choose another color).

2. Add mylar. One helper that many have agreed on is to at least add some mylar under the posts. Mylar is a clear protection film used in the game other places already. You can order sheets (https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/66-MFT) or pre-cut pieces (https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/66-MAS or https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/66-MSC). Users are suggesting using a punch to cut out the pieces, cheap sets of punches are available. Scissors, knives, etc all work. Clean the playfield with some isopropyl alcohol on a microfiber cloth and apply the mylar over the post holes. One pinsider has created a pre-made set that you can order and apply (https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1170-pin-monk/02469-jjpotc-sling-post-mylar-ring-set)

Mylar circle installed under star post & clear washer

3. Add a washer. It seems as though any hard surface screwed into the playfield is causing indentations. Even with the slightest of pressure an outline can still be seen after a few days of installation. Maybe in combination with mylar the washers will make less, or no, indentation, results are still to be determined. Some have used PETG clear washers under the larger star posts (https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/31-34-GD) and have seen indentations. Another solution, which seems to be working well for others is a neoprene or rubber washer (https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hillman-2-Count-5-16-in-x-3-4-in-Neoprene-Standard-SAE-Fender-Washers/3012346).

CE with rubber washers installed under green star posts
SE with neoprene washers under clear star posts

Be aware that adding anything under the star/sling posts may cause the sling "hammer" to push outside of the rubber and will require the glass to be removed and reset. Possibly using a double post (https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/03-8247-13) or shaving down the posts a bit may resolve this, not enough evidence at this point.

You may also need to adjust the sling switches to fire properly if you do anything to change the position of the rubber (for example, adding the larger star posts). General switch adjustment applies here (

).

Standard star post compared with double star post

Owners of TNA have reported similar issues on their games and have reportedly successfully used the neoprene washer solution.

TNA with neoprene washer

I spoke with Eric at Titan who is looking into producing a silicone washer that might give color options and even better protection.

4. Other things. Some have suggested, if you already have cracking of the playfield to paint on some clear coat to the affected area to prevent further flaking of the playfield. I can't comment on this and I haven't seen any data to support this but it seems like a plausible option.

5. Wait? - hopefully we'll hear from JJP and doing nothing might be an option if you don't want to change what the manufacturer did themselves.

****** What Else? ******
Well, as if this wasn't enough, it is possible that other posts on your playfield are also causing issues. There are a variety of other posts, some the same narrow plastic post, some larger star posts, some metal posts. JJP may have installed washers on one or more of these posts already, results are inconclusive. It is seen, however, that these other posts may also be showing signs of rippling of the playfield and possibly even some cracking like the sling posts are causing. It may very well be worth it to inspect other posts and decide if some method is appropriate to prevent damage from those.

****** What Are You Expecting To Happen? ******
No one has any idea. Some folks are suggesting replacement playfields are in order. Some think some fix or solution to the problem could be provided by JJP (perhaps a sticker). Others think that this isn't a huge problem and happens on other games. Personally, with others also agreeing, this kind of issue in this short amount of time with clear issues related to manufacturing that the manufacturer has passively admitted to by changing the manufacturing process to protect these areas seems to admit fault. I don't feel that my game should be less valuable due to a manufacturing defect which could very likely decrease resell value through no fault of my own. JJP has experienced similar issues to this in the past, most notably with the WOZ playfields and they had, in fact, produced decals to cover over the affected areas on the playfield.

The manufacturer of the playfields, Mirco, has been contacted (but has not responded) with a link to this thread so they are aware of the issues and can comment if they like. There is no indication where fault lies, I am not assessing blame other than to note that the manufacturer seems to have admitted to a defect with the games through their modifications and has not treated earlier customers properly. No notification has been made, no offer of resolution, no clear admittance, very little communication at all. I think that all most of the owners would like is some statement from JJP and a valid resolution offer. Playfields at cost may not make everyone whole, some are not able to install on their own and would take considerable cost or time to do this. However, a brand new playfield to sell with a game might make it valuable enough. Other manufacturers have been reported to send out fully populated playfields to owners with playfield clear coat rippling. It is possible JJP does not have parts enough to do this so remediation options may be limited.

*****Happy to add updates to this as people correct me and come up with new data.

#307 31 days ago

Conglomerated Sling Post Remediation Efforts

Basically I am trying to combine all of the causes and remediation (bandaids) for the sling post playfield cracking issues. Nothing here should be considered an absolute suggestion nor a fix, we are simply trying to mitigate issues as best as possible until the manufacturer takes a stance.

***** The Situation *****
It appears as though the plastic sling posts that JJP used in a subset of POTC machines, across all models, had a sharp lip on the bottom which, possibly combined with an over tightening of the metal threaded standoff post caused the sharp edge of the plastic post to dig in to the clear coat and playfield causing ripples and eventual cracking.

Cracking on playfield
Cracking around post
Sharp lip on post
Post comparison

This issue is most prominent on the sling posts, possibly due to the extra tension that the posts were screwed down with (users reporting these hard to unscrew) or possibly due to the abrupt motion the sling coils cause through normal operation. This motion, and possibly the ball hitting the posts or rubber, may cause the sling posts to move which could contribute to the slicing/cracking of the playfield.

This issue could extend to other similar, narrow plastic posts on the playfield and even metal or larger plastic star posts. While these other posts may not have a sharp edge the clear coat on the playfield seems soften or may be more prone to rippling and bunching around tightened down posts.

Other Posts In Question
Large Star Post Already Used In Game Puckering

Age of game, number of plays and model (SE, LE, CE) does not seem to matter. The issue has been seen across a variety of ages and models and even newer games with the manufacturer installed washers have started to see some issues (although with less instances and severity).

Playfield puckering

****** Manufacturing Changes? ******
Sometime during the manufacturing process of the POTC machines JJP apparently realized the issue (or due to being reported by pinside users) and made a series of changes to how these posts were installed. At some point the posts were either changed or fixed to not have the sharp lip on the bottom. As well, at some point, a combination of different washers were used on the bottom of the posts. Some users report narrow clear washers, some report larger metal washers, some report washers on 2 of the 3 posts. There does not seem to be any consistency except that this change was implemented somewhere near the middle of production. If you do have washers you are less likely to have issues with indentations, cracking and flaking of the playfield however there are users already reporting issues even with factory washers installed. Issues may appear later or be less severe but that does not mean you should ignore this situation.

JJP Installed Large Metal Washers on a CE
JJP Installed Narrow Clear Washer

****** Do I Need To Worry? ******
Long and short, yes. It seems like the playfields are susceptible to damage from pressure of items on the playfield. Even users who have put additional support under the posts have reported indentations from those support items after days of installation. Even if your playfield shows no signs of issue you should strongly consider some sort of remediation effort to protect your playfield.

****** What is JJP Doing About This? ******
Nothing, as far as we know. Several users have emailed or called to discuss the issue, sent images of their games and so far all responses have been of the "we are looking in to it" or "we'll get back to you" nature. In fact, one user reported this to Jack himself over 3 months ago and got, more or less, a non-response. If you haven't yet reported this issue you might consider emailing images of your playfield to Frank (Technical Support) at frank@jerseyjackpinball.com

****** What Should I Do? ******
A combined effort of pinsiders has resulted in a few distinct and possibly beneficial changes that may preserve your playfield. These are NOT fixes, merely ways we have all shared to help preserve what we have as best we can until a resolution from JJP is had.

1. Check your sling posts. Unscrew the nuts holding the plastic on, take off the plastic and rubber and unscrew the posts. If they have a sharp edge on the bottom it is suggested you either sand off the sharp edge or replace the posts. You can try replacing them with the same size or many others are choosing to use a larger star post found commonly on many other games (https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/03-8319-13 ... or choose another color).

2. Add mylar. One helper that many have agreed on is to at least add some mylar under the posts. Mylar is a clear protection film used in the game other places already. You can order sheets (https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/66-MFT) or pre-cut pieces (https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/66-MAS or https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/66-MSC). Users are suggesting using a punch to cut out the pieces, cheap sets of punches are available. Scissors, knives, etc all work. Clean the playfield with some isopropyl alcohol on a microfiber cloth and apply the mylar over the post holes. One pinsider has created a pre-made set that you can order and apply (https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1170-pin-monk/02469-jjpotc-sling-post-mylar-ring-set)

Mylar circle installed under star post & clear washer

3. Add a washer. It seems as though any hard surface screwed into the playfield is causing indentations. Even with the slightest of pressure an outline can still be seen after a few days of installation. Maybe in combination with mylar the washers will make less, or no, indentation, results are still to be determined. Some have used PETG clear washers under the larger star posts (https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/31-34-GD) and have seen indentations. Another solution, which seems to be working well for others is a neoprene or rubber washer (https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hillman-2-Count-5-16-in-x-3-4-in-Neoprene-Standard-SAE-Fender-Washers/3012346).

CE with rubber washers installed under green star posts
SE with neoprene washers under clear star posts

Be aware that adding anything under the star/sling posts may cause the sling "hammer" to push outside of the rubber and will require the glass to be removed and reset. Possibly using a double post (https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/03-8247-13) or shaving down the posts a bit may resolve this, not enough evidence at this point.

You may also need to adjust the sling switches to fire properly if you do anything to change the position of the rubber (for example, adding the larger star posts). General switch adjustment applies here (

).

Standard star post compared with double star post

Owners of TNA have reported similar issues on their games and have reportedly successfully used the neoprene washer solution.

TNA with neoprene washer

I spoke with Eric at Titan who is looking into producing a silicone washer that might give color options and even better protection.

4. Other things. Some have suggested, if you already have cracking of the playfield to paint on some clear coat to the affected area to prevent further flaking of the playfield. I can't comment on this and I haven't seen any data to support this but it seems like a plausible option.

5. Wait? - hopefully we'll hear from JJP and doing nothing might be an option if you don't want to change what the manufacturer did themselves.

****** What Else? ******
Well, as if this wasn't enough, it is possible that other posts on your playfield are also causing issues. There are a variety of other posts, some the same narrow plastic post, some larger star posts, some metal posts. JJP may have installed washers on one or more of these posts already, results are inconclusive. It is seen, however, that these other posts may also be showing signs of rippling of the playfield and possibly even some cracking like the sling posts are causing. It may very well be worth it to inspect other posts and decide if some method is appropriate to prevent damage from those.

****** What Are You Expecting To Happen? ******
No one has any idea. Some folks are suggesting replacement playfields are in order. Some think some fix or solution to the problem could be provided by JJP (perhaps a sticker). Others think that this isn't a huge problem and happens on other games. Personally, with others also agreeing, this kind of issue in this short amount of time with clear issues related to manufacturing that the manufacturer has passively admitted to by changing the manufacturing process to protect these areas seems to admit fault. I don't feel that my game should be less valuable due to a manufacturing defect which could very likely decrease resell value through no fault of my own. JJP has experienced similar issues to this in the past, most notably with the WOZ playfields and they had, in fact, produced decals to cover over the affected areas on the playfield.

The manufacturer of the playfields, Mirco, has been contacted (but has not responded) with a link to this thread so they are aware of the issues and can comment if they like. There is no indication where fault lies, I am not assessing blame other than to note that the manufacturer seems to have admitted to a defect with the games through their modifications and has not treated earlier customers properly. No notification has been made, no offer of resolution, no clear admittance, very little communication at all. I think that all most of the owners would like is some statement from JJP and a valid resolution offer. Playfields at cost may not make everyone whole, some are not able to install on their own and would take considerable cost or time to do this. However, a brand new playfield to sell with a game might make it valuable enough. Other manufacturers have been reported to send out fully populated playfields to owners with playfield clear coat rippling. It is possible JJP does not have parts enough to do this so remediation options may be limited.

*****Happy to add updates to this as people correct me and come up with new data.

#308 31 days ago

Just sent email asking JJP to say whether they are working on a solution.

#309 31 days ago
Quoted from mtp78:

I emailed Frank at JJP asking if I could get the washers that were used on the CE models
2 days later still no replie.. why cant they just sell us the washers that some factory installed games came with ? Seems like an easy fix to prevent damage

I think I found a polycarbonate washer on McMaster Carr that appears to match the post diameter perfectly. It is not too thick, but is way better than a Mylar. This washer is 0.032" thick and the ID works well too! You have to buy a bag of 50 pieces, but they are only $10.00 for a bag. https://www.mcmaster.com/90940a413 I hope this helps.

#310 31 days ago
Quoted from WillSmuz8999:

I think I found a polycarbonate washer on McMaster Carr that appears to match the post diameter perfectly. It is not too thick, but is way better than a Mylar. This washer is 0.032" thick and the ID works well too! You have to buy a bag of 50 pieces, but they are only $10.00 for a bag. https://www.mcmaster.com/90940a413 I hope this helps.

Be careful adding just a hard washer, I did that on mine and it still started creating and indent. I have since added mylar under it. I want to move towards a neoprene or silicone solution soon but will probably still leave the mylar.

#311 31 days ago

First off... Thank you all for bring this to our attention.

I pulled my posts off after reading this and I guess I'm pretty fortunate. I can see the rings where the posts were, but it hasn't spread past that.

In my situation, do you feel that mylar below the posts and smoothing the post bottoms is my best solution going forward?

I would like to stay away from the star posts if I can, but really I just want to make sure this playfield holds up for the future. I really love this game and want it to stick around for awhile.

I'm sorry to see others pictures of the severe chipping. I sure hope Mirco / JJP takes care of this for you.

I'm certainly going to continue to watch this thread.

Thanks again for your documentation and research on this issue.

Brian

20190515_202246 (resized).jpg20190515_202251 (resized).jpg
#312 31 days ago
Quoted from pinghetto:

First off... Thank you all for bring this to our attention.
I pulled my posts off after reading this and I guess I'm pretty fortunate. I can see the rings where the posts were, but it hasn't spread past that.
In my situation, do you feel that mylar below the posts and smoothing the post bottoms is my best solution going forward?
I would like to stay away from the star posts if I can, but really I just want to make sure this playfield holds up for the future. I really love this game and want it to stick around for awhile.
I'm sorry to see others pictures of the severe chipping. I sure hope Mirco / JJP takes care of this for you.
I'm certainly going to continue to watch this thread.
Thanks again for your documentation and research on this issue.
Brian
[quoted image][quoted image]

Dang, you lucky! lol. Well, good for you.

I'm just talking out of my ass here, so take it with whatever grain of salt you want, but personally if you don't want the larger star posts I would at least put mylar. Since there is puckering a bit I would probably try to source a neoprene or silicone washer that would go under the post. Since the post is so narrow you might even be able to get away with a silicone ring cut in half (https://www.titanpinball.com/image/cache/catalog/Silicone%20Rings/Single%207-16%20OD-800x800.jpg). I haven't seen any existing silicone or neoprene washers that small, so you might have to cut something either way. Personally, I would put mylar and a soft washer there no question, both are easily removed and seem unlikely to cause issue.

**AND you have the switch slot protectors, nice! Just got mine in, not sure if I am adding them to POTC or not, I see no wear in that area yet. However, my tortuga hole is rough (hole.. rough..) but it now has the cliffy on it.

#313 31 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

So are you implying that because I did not buy the game directly from a dealer or JJP that I would not be covered?

Potentially yes. http://marketing.jerseyjackpinball.com/general/jjp_warranty-updated.pdf

#314 31 days ago

Well.. a few thoughts. One, I am pretty sure the original owner would help me with this, upstanding pinside member. Second, JJP has already warrantied an item from my game, to me directly.. so that seems like both they aren't so strict on this and, while maybe having no legal basis, sounds like that clause could possibly be invalidated by doing so..IANAL... or at least setting some precedent.

Also, how many people actually did this??

What must I do? In order to be eligible for coverage you must register your JJP Machine within 5 days of delivery on-line at www.JerseyJackPinball.com, by e·mailing Service@JerseyJackPinball.com or by calling
732-364-9900.

Are those who didn't going to get denied coverage?

But finally, I'm trying to be very amenable in this whole thing (I think most people are) in trying to give time and space for a response from JJP but I would not hesitate to create great rage and furious anger should there be any hint of a denial of remedy that other owners would be getting. I've done it before and I'd do it again, my reach would be extensive and thoughtful.

Edit.. this seems like it is also going to be a warranty issue for most owners:

The JJP "Bumper to Post" Limited Warranty covers every part in your new Jersey Jack Pinball Machine for a period of 30 days from the date of delivery of the Machine to its original Purchaser

Again, I doubt this is going to be part of the "warranty" but hopefully something a reputable manufacturer will stand up and take responsibility for to keep a solid reputation, prevent backlash in the community and ward off any sort of combined litigation.

#315 31 days ago

Made some key posts for you, hopefully it helps new people coming to the thread.

Quoted from harryhoudini:

Conglomerated Sling Post Remediation Efforts
Basically I am trying to combine all of the causes and remediation (bandaids) for the sling post playfield cracking issues. Nothing here should be considered an absolute suggestion nor a fix, we are simply trying to mitigate issues as best as possible until the manufacturer takes a stance.
***** The Situation *****
It appears as though the plastic sling posts that JJP used in a subset of POTC machines, across all models, had a sharp lip on the bottom which, possibly combined with an over tightening of the metal threaded standoff post caused the sharp edge of the plastic post to dig in to the clear coat and playfield causing ripples and eventual cracking.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
This issue is most prominent on the sling posts, possibly due to the extra tension that the posts were screwed down with (users reporting these hard to unscrew) or possibly due to the abrupt motion the sling coils cause through normal operation. This motion, and possibly the ball hitting the posts or rubber, may cause the sling posts to move which could contribute to the slicing/cracking of the playfield.
This issue could extend to other similar, narrow plastic posts on the playfield and even metal or larger plastic star posts. While these other posts may not have a sharp edge the clear coat on the playfield seems soften or may be more prone to rippling and bunching around tightened down posts.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
Age of game, number of plays and model (SE, LE, CE) does not seem to matter. The issue has been seen across a variety of ages and models and even newer games with the manufacturer installed washers have started to see some issues (although with less instances and severity).
[quoted image]
****** Manufacturing Changes? ******
Sometime during the manufacturing process of the POTC machines JJP apparently realized the issue (or due to being reported by pinside users) and made a series of changes to how these posts were installed. At some point the posts were either changed or fixed to not have the sharp lip on the bottom. As well, at some point, a combination of different washers were used on the bottom of the posts. Some users report narrow clear washers, some report larger metal washers, some report washers on 2 of the 3 posts. There does not seem to be any consistency except that this change was implemented somewhere near the middle of production. If you do have washers you are less likely to have issues with indentations, cracking and flaking of the playfield however there are users already reporting issues even with factory washers installed. Issues may appear later or be less severe but that does not mean you should ignore this situation.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
****** Do I Need To Worry? ******
Long and short, yes. It seems like the playfields are susceptible to damage from pressure of items on the playfield. Even users who have put additional support under the posts have reported indentations from those support items after days of installation. Even if your playfield shows no signs of issue you should strongly consider some sort of remediation effort to protect your playfield.
****** What is JJP Doing About This? ******
Nothing, as far as we know. Several users have emailed or called to discuss the issue, sent images of their games and so far all responses have been of the "we are looking in to it" or "we'll get back to you" nature. In fact, one user reported this to Jack himself over 3 months ago and got, more or less, a non-response. If you haven't yet reported this issue you might consider emailing images of your playfield to Frank (Technical Support) at frank@jerseyjackpinball.com
****** What Should I Do? ******
A combined effort of pinsiders has resulted in a few distinct and possibly beneficial changes that may preserve your playfield. These are NOT fixes, merely ways we have all shared to help preserve what we have as best we can until a resolution from JJP is had.
1. Check your sling posts. Unscrew the nuts holding the plastic on, take off the plastic and rubber and unscrew the posts. If they have a sharp edge on the bottom it is suggested you either sand off the sharp edge or replace the posts. You can try replacing them with the same size or many others are choosing to use a larger star post found commonly on many other games (https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/03-8319-13 ... or choose another color).
2. Add mylar. One helper that many have agreed on is to at least add some mylar under the posts. Mylar is a clear protection film used in the game other places already. You can order sheets (https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/66-MFT) or pre-cut pieces (https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/66-MAS or https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/66-MSC). Users are suggesting using a punch to cut out the pieces, cheap sets of punches are available. Scissors, knives, etc all work. Clean the playfield with some isopropyl alcohol on a microfiber cloth and apply the mylar over the post holes. One pinsider has created a pre-made set that you can order and apply (https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1170-pin-monk/02469-jjpotc-sling-post-mylar-ring-set)
[quoted image]
3. Add a washer. It seems as though any hard surface screwed into the playfield is causing indentations. Even with the slightest of pressure an outline can still be seen after a few days of installation. Maybe in combination with mylar the washers will make less, or no, indentation, results are still to be determined. Some have used PETG clear washers under the larger star posts (https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/31-34-GD) and have seen indentations. Another solution, which seems to be working well for others is a neoprene or rubber washer (https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hillman-2-Count-5-16-in-x-3-4-in-Neoprene-Standard-SAE-Fender-Washers/3012346).
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
Be aware that adding anything under the star/sling posts may cause the sling "hammer" to push outside of the rubber and will require the glass to be removed and reset. Possibly using a double post (https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/03-8247-13) or shaving down the posts a bit may resolve this, not enough evidence at this point.
You may also need to adjust the sling switches to fire properly if you do anything to change the position of the rubber (for example, adding the larger star posts). General switch adjustment applies here ( ).
[quoted image]
Owners of TNA have reported similar issues on their games and have reportedly successfully used the neoprene washer solution.
[quoted image]
I spoke with Eric at Titan who is looking into producing a silicone washer that might give color options and even better protection.
4. Other things. Some have suggested, if you already have cracking of the playfield to paint on some clear coat to the affected area to prevent further flaking of the playfield. I can't comment on this and I haven't seen any data to support this but it seems like a plausible option.
5. Wait? - hopefully we'll hear from JJP and doing nothing might be an option if you don't want to change what the manufacturer did themselves.
****** What Else? ******
Well, as if this wasn't enough, it is possible that other posts on your playfield are also causing issues. There are a variety of other posts, some the same narrow plastic post, some larger star posts, some metal posts. JJP may have installed washers on one or more of these posts already, results are inconclusive. It is seen, however, that these other posts may also be showing signs of rippling of the playfield and possibly even some cracking like the sling posts are causing. It may very well be worth it to inspect other posts and decide if some method is appropriate to prevent damage from those.
****** What Are You Expecting To Happen? ******
No one has any idea. Some folks are suggesting replacement playfields are in order. Some think some fix or solution to the problem could be provided by JJP (perhaps a sticker). Others think that this isn't a huge problem and happens on other games. Personally, with others also agreeing, this kind of issue in this short amount of time with clear issues related to manufacturing that the manufacturer has passively admitted to by changing the manufacturing process to protect these areas seems to admit fault. I don't feel that my game should be less valuable due to a manufacturing defect which could very likely decrease resell value through no fault of my own. JJP has experienced similar issues to this in the past, most notably with the WOZ playfields and they had, in fact, produced decals to cover over the affected areas on the playfield.
The manufacturer of the playfields, Mirco, has been contacted (but has not responded) with a link to this thread so they are aware of the issues and can comment if they like. There is no indication where fault lies, I am not assessing blame other than to note that the manufacturer seems to have admitted to a defect with the games through their modifications and has not treated earlier customers properly. No notification has been made, no offer of resolution, no clear admittance, very little communication at all. I think that all most of the owners would like is some statement from JJP and a valid resolution offer. Playfields at cost may not make everyone whole, some are not able to install on their own and would take considerable cost or time to do this. However, a brand new playfield to sell with a game might make it valuable enough. Other manufacturers have been reported to send out fully populated playfields to owners with playfield clear coat rippling. It is possible JJP does not have parts enough to do this so remediation options may be limited.
*****Happy to add updates to this as people correct me and come up with new data.

#316 31 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Dang, you lucky! lol. Well, good for you.
I'm just talking out of my ass here, so take it with whatever grain of salt you want, but personally if you don't want the larger star posts I would at least put mylar. Since there is puckering a bit I would probably try to source a neoprene or silicone washer that would go under the post. Since the post is so narrow you might even be able to get away with a silicone ring cut in half (https://www.titanpinball.com/image/cache/catalog/Silicone%20Rings/Single%207-16%20OD-800x800.jpg). I haven't seen any existing silicone or neoprene washers that small, so you might have to cut something either way. Personally, I would put mylar and a soft washer there no question, both are easily removed and seem unlikely to cause issue.
**AND you have the switch slot protectors, nice! Just got mine in, not sure if I am adding them to POTC or not, I see no wear in that area yet. However, my tortuga hole is rough (hole.. rough..) but it now has the cliffy on it.

Cool. Thanks again. Yeah, I put a Cliffy on my Tortuga hole the day I brought my game home. We have one on route here that had Tortuga wear after about a month. Granted it got extremely heavy play, but I know it was going to be a problem.

Good luck on your quest my friend. I hope you are taken care of.

Brian

#318 31 days ago

I have only to Frank and Jack

#319 31 days ago
Quoted from Coz:

Has anyone reached out to Eric? hogbog

I did. Offered to send washers.

#320 31 days ago
Quoted from pinghetto:

Cool. Thanks again. Yeah, I put a Cliffy on my Tortuga hole the day I brought my game home. We have one on route here that had Tortuga wear after about a month. Granted it got extremely heavy play, but I know it was going to be a problem.
Good luck on your quest my friend. I hope you are taken care of.
Brian

Over 1200 plays on mine. Has the teensiest bit of dirt of the left lip. No chipping or wear at all.

image (resized).jpg

#321 31 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Over 1200 plays on mine. Has the teensiest bit of dirt of the left lip. No chipping or wear at all.
[quoted image]

That's good to see. I didn't want to take any chances after seeing the routed game. The protector was pretty easy to install.

Brian

#322 31 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Made some key posts for you, hopefully it helps new people coming to the thread.

Ah thanks! I messaged Robin because I wasn't sure who was an editor.

#323 31 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Ah thanks! I messaged Robin because I wasn't sure who was an editor.

Hey no problem, I have editor, and even if I don't think it's an issue for me personally that doesn't mean I can't help make key posts for those that do want help!

#324 31 days ago
Quoted from pinghetto:

That's good to see. I didn't want to take any chances after seeing the routed game. The protector was pretty easy to install.
Brian

I actually do have a set of cliffys on the way (someday lol).

#325 31 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

I actually do have a set of cliffys on the way (someday lol).

Me too. Wish someone would stock and sell them.

#326 31 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

I actually do have a set of cliffys on the way (someday lol).

You know, Cliff was way responsive recently on some JP protectors I wanted and shipped them out like right away. I went and found my WOZ protectors elsewhere because I heard he was backed up, but seems like that's passed? Did you get a ship notification?

-1
#327 31 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

You know, Cliff was way responsive recently on some JP protectors I wanted and shipped them out like right away. I went and found my WOZ protectors elsewhere because I heard he was backed up, but seems like that's passed? Did you get a ship notification?

He probably had Jurassic Park in stock. Much older pin. Newer pins he has to make them cuz he can’t make them fast enough.

#328 31 days ago

My god, some of you have a lot of spare time on your hands.

#329 31 days ago

Took more pics of posts with the flash today.. nothing more than I posted before really. There is definitely dimpling and piling up of the clear around some of the narrow plastic posts. Definitely some chipping around one of the metal ones and some also pushing up of the clear. It's not an issue with just the sling posts.. but will these cause issues over time? Hard to say. Here is a better shot of the worst two... it's a HUGE lip, hard to see in the picture but I'd guess it's about the height of a dime. (Yes, the playfield is getting cleaned soon!) I'll pull one of these off when I do the rubbers and clean to see how it looks underneath.

I guess I should mention that my malestrom ramp is broken too... cracked at the left entrance. The ramps are thin as hell compared to the TOM repro ramps I just picked up.

0515192042.jpg

0515192041 (resized).jpg
#330 31 days ago
Quoted from solarvalue:

My god, some of you have a lot of spare time on your hands.

I don't know that discounting someone's concerns is entirely fair. For an "average" person this is a monstrous purchase. So exploring every option available to protect it, for years of use and ownership, seems a pretty good use of time to me.

This is all upfront usage of time. It's not like anyone in this thread has been day after day compelled by this issue for years and years on end. Ideally, years from now, just regular maintenance exists solely.

#331 31 days ago
Quoted from wesman:

I don't know that discounting someone's concerns is entirely fair. For an "average" person this is a monstrous purchase. So exploring every option available to protect it, for years of use and ownership, seems a pretty good use of time to me.
This is all upfront usage of time. It's not like anyone in this thread has been day after day compelled by this issue for years and years on end. Ideally, years from now, just regular maintenance exists solely.

Plus, I have nothing better to do.

Actually, I'll be consumed with my WOZ RR that is being delivered tomorrow! Who else has two WOZ? lol... SE is going for sale.

#332 31 days ago

I will be watching on the sidelines.

I feel for every single one of you who has to deal with this.

It’s just not right or fair or ...

#333 31 days ago

This issue seems rampant with potc. Has this happened with other JJP games too?

#334 31 days ago

I just procured the exact specs of the washer JJP is using from Frank and passed it to Eric at Titan.

Hopefully he can procure a poly rubber with these thickness specifications but the diameter of a star post so we don't have to play funny games with double sized posts or cutting down posts any longer.

Then, those without existing damage can keep the existing posts if they choose with large washer underneath, and those with can go to star posts.

#335 31 days ago

I'm fine with the black ones from Lowe's. You really don't even notice them while playing.

#336 31 days ago
Quoted from gliebig:

I'm fine with the black ones from Lowe's. You really don't even notice them while playing.

Do they affect sling performance or leave outline marks? The gummy ones from Amazon were too high, causing slingshot performance problems and don't prevent marks from the circumference of the star posts.

#337 31 days ago

Could you use something much thinner such as Mylar?

#338 31 days ago
Quoted from gumnut01:

I think the point of this thread which Harry raises (thank you Harry) is to identify how much this is happening, report it to JJ and hopefully come up with a JJ endorsed solution. If that is not possible then come up with a solution that will resolve it in the best way possible.
Here is what we know:
1. All posts without the small washers installed at factory are going to be sharp. You need to ask JJ for the small washers. They will send.

My LE was delivered mid Feb and the posts (with no washers from factory) were smooth on the bottom. Maybe JJP got a bad batch of posts or changed vendors?

#339 31 days ago
Quoted from Crash:

Could you use something much thinner such as Mylar?

No. Won't prevent pressure of the post from causing the clearcoat from lifting from the substrate. Urethane doesn't even technically bind to wood so you can see the problem here.

#340 31 days ago
Quoted from cheshirefilms:

Do they affect sling performance or leave outline marks? The gummy ones from Amazon were too high, causing slingshot performance problems and don't prevent marks from the circumference of the star posts.

This is what I’m wondering. If we need to switch to the star posts do they compress enough that we don’t need to dick with the leaf switches and hammer for it to function reliably.

Also, do the star posts on this washer leave any additional imprint in the clear?

#341 31 days ago

My summary from tinkering this week...

The star posts pull the sling rubber out just a bit more than the skinny posts, so most likely a little tweak to the switches is needed. I just much prefer the wider base of the star post to those skinny posts.

I tried the larger lexan washers. I didn't even torque them down much and they left faint marks in the clear after one day. That is why I'm sticking with the rubber.

I may go to Lowes this weekend and try to find a smaller rubber washer that will fit under the skinny posts better.

The size rubber washer I have curls up a bit around the edges when you use the skinny posts. I sandwiched a rubber under a lexan with the skinny post to prevent that. That worked fine and the lexan on top prevented the rubber from curling up. Slings fired normally.

Pics of each have been posted a few times.

#342 31 days ago
Quoted from gliebig:

My summary from tinkering this week...
The star posts pull the sling rubber out just a bit more than the skinny posts, so most likely a little tweak to the switches is needed. I just much prefer the wider base of the star post to those skinny posts.
I tried the larger lexan washers. I didn't even torque them down much and they left faint marks in the clear after one day. That is why I'm sticking with the rubber.
I may go to Lowes this weekend and try to find a smaller rubber washer that will fit under the skinny posts better.
The size rubber washer I have curls up a bit around the edges when you use the skinny posts. I sandwiched a rubber under a lexan with the skinny post to prevent that. That worked fine and the lexan on top prevented the rubber from curling up. Slings fired normally.
Pics of each have been posted a few times.

If you prefer the rubber and the star posts why didn't you just put the star posts on the rubber? Wouldn't that prevent curlage and thus the need for the lexan? Why did you switch back to the skinny?

#343 31 days ago
Quoted from cheshirefilms:

If you prefer the rubber and the star posts why didn't you just put the star posts on the rubber? Why did you switch back to the skinny?

I am going to take a wild guess that the skinny on the rubber work without adjusting switches and hammer but I kind of agree that the star posts are a better look.

#344 31 days ago

There's no reason they should crack. Dumbfounded as to why they switched up posts to the beveled/sharp edges. Someone should have caught that or someone should have cared enough on the assembly line.

Curious as to who is overseeing assembly of these games as I believe they're missing a critical component.

#345 31 days ago
Quoted from cheshirefilms:

If you prefer the rubber and the star posts why didn't you just put the star posts on the rubber? Wouldn't that prevent curlage and thus the need for the lexan? Why did you switch back to the skinny?

I have star posts with just rubber on currently.
The skinny posts are the ones that need the rubber/lexan combo.

I'm actually on the fence with which to go with. Skinnies with rubber/lexan combo or Star posts with just rubber but switch tweaking needed...

I may go back to the skinnies rather than adjust the switches, I just thought the star posts look nicer.

#346 31 days ago

Seems many like the look of Star Posts. Can these easily be cut down precisely to the proper height to work with adjusting everything? This would be the ideal solution.

#347 31 days ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Seems many like the look of Star Posts. Can these easily be cut down precisely to the proper height to work with adjusting everything? This would be the ideal solution.

I don't think it's the height. The star posts are wider, therefore, pull the sling rubber out just a bit further from the switches.

I had the skinny post rubber/lexan combo on which is a good bit taller than anything I tried and the slings fire properly.

#348 31 days ago
Quoted from gliebig:

I don't think it's the height. The star posts are wider, therefore, pull the sling rubber out just a bit further from the switches.
I had the skinny post rubber/lexan combo on which is a good bit taller than anything I tried and the slings fire properly.

What a pain in the ass this is turning out to be!

#349 31 days ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Seems many like the look of Star Posts. Can these easily be cut down precisely to the proper height to work with adjusting everything? This would be the ideal solution.

It's really not a huge deal to adjust the switches, especially if you have a switch adjustment tool
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/77-SWK

A few tweaks and you're set.

#350 31 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

It's really not a huge deal to adjust the switches, especially if you have a switch adjustment tool
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/77-SWK
A few tweaks and you're set.

Asked ZaphX if he's picked up the Lowe washers yet. Be great if they work perfectly with only switch adjustments. But the gummy ones+switch adjustments weren't a perfect fix, so not sure how this would do any better?

Right now find it hard to validate error free performance from the gent who doesn't seem to know how to adjust his own leaf switches.

I suspect *the* solution may turn out to be the double aperature starposts with the lower groove used for the sling rubber, plus the Lowe's washer.

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