(Topic ID: 242867)

PoTC - Who has playfield cracking & wear around sling posts?


By harryhoudini

10 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 2,969 posts
  • 217 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 days ago by Green-Machine
  • Topic is favorited by 64 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“What kind of issues are you seeing?”

  • I have visible dimples but no chipping 44 votes
    22%
  • I can see chipping but haven't done anything yet 67 votes
    33%
  • I can see chipping and installed mylar, washer and/or larger star post 30 votes
    15%
  • My playfield looks fine (but I haven't removed the star posts) 31 votes
    15%
  • I removed the star posts and my playfield looks fine 15 votes
    7%
  • My game had clear washers installed from the factory 15 votes
    7%

(Multiple choice - 202 votes by 190 Pinsiders)

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#2851 66 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

What else could he possibly have done?

REPLACE THE FUCKING PLAYFIELD WITH A POPULATED ONE.

-22
#2852 66 days ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

REPLACE THE FUCKING PLAYFIELD WITH A POPULATED ONE.

And if he did that then you’d complain that the game isn’t new and you deserve a new machine.

And if he did that you’d complain about compensation for your pain and suffering.

Some people are never happy.

14
#2853 66 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

And if he did that then you’d complain that the game isn’t new and you deserve a new machine.
And if he did that you’d complain about compensation for your pain and suffering.
Some people are never happy.

Really man? This is a ridiculous opinion. I don't think a single person on here would complain further if they received a new populated playfield that made their game whole again. Your response is really ignorant.

12
#2854 66 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

And if he did that then you’d complain that the game isn’t new and you deserve a new machine.
And if he did that you’d complain about compensation for your pain and suffering.
Some people are never happy.

Knock it off. All I've ever asked for since my purchase is a defect free game. Why the hell else would I purchase a NIB game? WTF does a warranty do if it doesn't apply?

Sending me a blank play field was a pansy ass way to "make things right." I am in NO WAY made whole. I now have a defective machine AND a huge job ahead of me.

I'm biting my tongue for the moment. But I'm considering blasting JJP for how they handled this.

#2855 66 days ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Knock it off. All I've ever asked for since my purchase is a defect free game. Why the hell else would I purchase a NIB game? WTF does a warranty do if it doesn't apply?
Sending me a blank play field was a pansy ass way to "make things right." I am in NO WAY made whole. I now have a defective machine AND a huge job ahead of me.
I'm biting my tongue for the moment. But I'm considering blasting JJP for how they handled this.

The pinball community pussy-footing around this issue is the reason why it has happened and will continue to happen. Accepting a blank playfield as a remedy for a $10k machine that was faulty when it left the factory is not going to ensure it doesn't happen again. The way this process has been handled as well as the remedy is unacceptable, and pain needs to be felt at the manufacturer level in order to ensure this is not allowed to ever happen again.

#2856 66 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

The pinball community pussy-footing around this issue is the reason why it has happened and will continue to happen. Accepting a blank playfield as a remedy for a $10k machine that was faulty when it left the factory is not going to ensure it doesn't happen again. The way this process has been handled as well as the remedy is unacceptable, and pain needs to be felt at the manufacturer level in order to ensure this is not allowed to ever happen again.

I agree and the minimum acceptable remedy would have been to offer to have original PF sent back on their dime for JJP to perform swap or if customer doesn’t want to deal with that a reimbursement from having a professional perform the swap.

Simple fact is 95% of the customers affected are either unable or unwilling to do this themselves.

Edit - I am glad to at least have the PF. Gives me option to swap, sell, keep as art etc....

#2857 66 days ago

I’m going to say this once more. Jack and Stern are taking advantage of you people. The build these machines as cheap as they can and sell them to you as high as they can get away with. This of course is capitalism. But, they sell them with known flaws and expensive issues, basically a poor quality product with pretty much no warranty. Until you guys stop kissing their ass because they are the only manufacturers of pinball machines and demand a better product and or a lower price you are going to get screwed. I learned my lesson with WOZ that Jack is a asshole and is definitely not your friend even though he pretends to be. Stern and Jack will continue to sell flawed products until they have no choice but to make it better.

#2858 66 days ago

This is a very difficult problem to deal with. Root cause probably traces back to the playfield manufacturer and the pin manufacturers are having to deal with the fallout. Shipping a fully populated playfield is extremely difficult. They would have to first fabricate and test brand new packaging to ensure no damage will occur and that it can withstand some amount of dropping. This would have to be done once per pin. In shipping something this delicate and varying, there is no one size fits all solution. If you have ever gone through this process, it is not cheap nor is it fast to get through. The second option would be to have people ship their entire pin back to them. This is also very expensive and full of risk.

I'm not sure what a good answer is here unfortunately. I sympathize with both sides in this case. What a conundrum!

#2859 66 days ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Knock it off. All I've ever asked for since my purchase is a defect free game. Why the hell else would I purchase a NIB game? WTF does a warranty do if it doesn't apply?
Sending me a blank play field was a pansy ass way to "make things right." I am in NO WAY made whole. I now have a defective machine AND a huge job ahead of me.
I'm biting my tongue for the moment. But I'm considering blasting JJP for how they handled this.

Save your anger for anyone other than zaphX. That guy from day one, day one, has made as much effort as anyone, lots of good eggs here, to help compile data to make Pirates a better game, and thankfully he didn't need to do the same for Wonka. Be happy for that. Pirates was often a mess of tiny parts conflicting with others, on top of the clear issues.

Which....

From what I remember about your case, you were here in the community when these issues had happened, bought your game in July, long after Pirates had it's cleacoat issues, and even after Wonka...in late June...had photos posted on this site, showing immediate rippling. Sling issues was the first thing I looked at, day one, when I made a thread about a Wonka in late June, being on route.

The majority of us Pirates owner's, never had data about the playfields being fucked, and assuredly if we did, I'd imagine many of us would have wavered on that purchase.

We're all irritated and tired of this dilemma, but it's never getting to the ideal we'd like it to be. A new unpopulated playfield is what we get, not all of us even. It sucks. But that's it. And your only future option is to not buy new from JJP again.

All of this is coming from someone that still have yet to put time into his game, still had problems, and took his game apart over and over again, to try and prevent these issues.

I also saw you didn't wish to buy the pinball iron, which multiple people recommend. I did, and will use it when I get some free time.

Have you talked to Jack directly? Because I don't know why the ALL CAPS FURY is necessary here. No one on here, especially a guy like zaphX, that has owned many games with these issues, made efforts to help others endlessly with their games, deserves that fury. Direct it towards JJP, don't buy games, etc.

#2860 66 days ago

I concede your points. Yes, I talked to Jack. He was vastly under-prepared for the conversation, in my opinion.

I know what zaphX has done. I respect his efforts. Doesn't mean I don't get to call him out on a crappy post. Because that's what it was.

I can't use his iron solution, as my artwork has already chipped off in several areas of my play field.

I will never buy another NIB pin again. That's all I can do at this point, other than torching JJP in a major flame-out, which I don't really feel like doing. It's not going to make my situation any better.

My level of involvement in the hobby has lots of ebbs and flows, and 2019 was a big flow year for me as I had finally saved enough money to purchase my first new machine. Nothing like getting a lemon to remind you that life isn't fair sometimes.

Now I'll likely see an ebb in my interest in the hobby as I sit and stew on my situation.

#2861 66 days ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

I concede your points. Yes, I talked to Jack. He was vastly under-prepared for the conversation, in my opinion.
I know what zaphX has done. I respect his efforts. Doesn't mean I don't get to call him out on a crappy post. Because that's what it was.
I can't use his iron solution, as my artwork has already chipped off in several areas of my play field.
I will never buy another NIB pin again. That's all I can do at this point, other than torching JJP in a major flame-out, which I don't really feel like doing. It's not going to make my situation any better.
My level of involvement in the hobby has lots of ebbs and flows, and 2019 was a big flow year for me as I had finally saved enough money to purchase my first new machine. Nothing like getting a lemon to remind you that life isn't fair sometimes.
Now I'll likely see an ebb in my interest in the hobby as I sit and stew on my situation.

Gotta get ready for work, but I do appreciate the dialog.

I drove all the way over your way for MGC to see this puppy revealed. And man it sucks to see so many affected in what's supposed to be a fun event, and especially one that does indeed, take hard earned cash saved for months or longer....

We're all in this together, good, and sadly bad, my friend.

#2862 66 days ago

I whole heartedly believe without harryhoudini big pressure campaign none of us would be getting the free PF’s. The $550 plus shipping offer would be it.

#2863 66 days ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

No I said I wouldn’t lie for you like you asked...
You wanted me to file the claim with JJP directly even after you posted on FB and Pinside that you bought the game.
Just like when you authorized the chargeback on the pf but posted about in an online forum. Proving you’re a liar.

Sigh. So it's not ok to ask the original owner if they will help me get the same support everyone else would be getting? I shouldn't be entitled to the same recompense other owners of the game are getting even though they also aren't under warranty? Because I made a stink, because I said something and tried to help all the owners and the industry I should be the one who suffers because Jack is a jerk and has a vendetta against me?

And since JJP won't respond to me and other owners are getting a free playfield I should not also be entitled to that and shouldn't take any option available to me to get that money back? I had no other option at that point but to dispute the charge.

#2864 66 days ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

I concede your points. Yes, I talked to Jack. He was vastly under-prepared for the conversation, in my opinion.
I know what zaphX has done. I respect his efforts. Doesn't mean I don't get to call him out on a crappy post. Because that's what it was.
I can't use his iron solution, as my artwork has already chipped off in several areas of my play field.
I will never buy another NIB pin again. That's all I can do at this point, other than torching JJP in a major flame-out, which I don't really feel like doing. It's not going to make my situation any better.
My level of involvement in the hobby has lots of ebbs and flows, and 2019 was a big flow year for me as I had finally saved enough money to purchase my first new machine. Nothing like getting a lemon to remind you that life isn't fair sometimes.
Now I'll likely see an ebb in my interest in the hobby as I sit and stew on my situation.

You nailed the solution....NEVER buy another NIB game from JJP or Stern....multiple benefits...the first is you typically save $ (POTC might be an exception), and the most important factor is u can inspect the game before buying. The only thing u don't get is a warranty, which as we all know is totally worthless.

#2865 66 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Sigh. So it's not ok to ask the original owner if they will help me get the same support everyone else would be getting? I shouldn't be entitled to the same recompense other owners of the game are getting even though they also aren't under warranty? Because I made a stink, because I said something and tried to help all the owners and the industry I should be the one who suffers because Jack is a jerk and has a vendetta against me?
And since JJP won't respond to me and other owners are getting a free playfield I should not also be entitled to that and shouldn't take any option available to me to get that money back? I had no other option at that point but to dispute the charge.

Yeah.... I don't know what went on between the two of you, and the sale, and afterwards, but it doesn't seem unreasonable for the new owner to ask the old to file a claim on their behalf.

I know I'd hope the person I bought the game from would. Unlike the one guy who posted on here, who got one after selling his game, and still wants to profit from the freebie he got for a game he doesn't even own anymore.

-1
#2866 66 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Sigh. So it's not ok to ask the original owner if they will help me get the same support everyone else would be getting? I shouldn't be entitled to the same recompense other owners of the game are getting even though they also aren't under warranty? Because I made a stink, because I said something and tried to help all the owners and the industry I should be the one who suffers because Jack is a jerk and has a vendetta against me?
And since JJP won't respond to me and other owners are getting a free playfield I should not also be entitled to that and shouldn't take any option available to me to get that money back? I had no other option at that point but to dispute the charge.

Complete dick move on the original owner not to file a claim....

#2867 66 days ago
Quoted from wesman:

Save your anger for anyone other than zaphX. That guy from day one, day one, has made as much effort as anyone

F*cking A right.

#2868 66 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Complete dick move on the original owner not to file a claim....

You can't file a claim on something you don't own. And if asking PDX to lie was part of the plan, I agree with him skipping it.

None of this matters if JJP would have stepped up and taken care of the problems properly in the first place.

#2869 66 days ago

I'm surprised so many people want JJP and Stern to do the right thing, but refusing to make a clearly dishonest and potentially fraudulent warranty claim is somehow awful.

I have a POTC with a pooling playfield so I get the frustration (I bought it NIB). And I have no personal issue with anyone here. That said the warranty explicitly says it only covers the original owner. You can argue that's a lame warranty, but I don't think it's fair to require original purchasers to file claims on any future owners' behalf.

If you bought NIB and aren't getting the warranty coverage promised, that's another story.

Unfortunate situations all around, but I don't think it's useful to vilify anyone involved including owners, resellers, and even JJP.

#2870 66 days ago

It's not a warranty claim, jeesus. There is no warranty that is covering this, I should just copy and paste this every time this comes up.

30 day warranty on the game IF you register it within 5 days of delivery AND you are the original owner. So basically no one has a warranty on the whole game at this point. Shit JJP didn't even reply to most people within 30 days.

6 months warranty on electronics ONLY if you route it, 1 year if you are home user.. ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS ONLY.

Almost none, if any at all, of these free playfields or $550 playfields were under warranty.

This is a manufacturing defect with the game, nothing to do with who owns the game at the time. It was created with a fault, it should be fixed at the game level not the owner. JJP isn't off the hook because someone else owns the game now.

#2871 66 days ago

bingo...defective product claim.

#2872 66 days ago

<removed>

It's clear everyone's mind is made up here and arguing is going to accomplish exactly nothing.

#2873 66 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

30 day warranty on the game IF you register it within 5 days of delivery AND you are the original owner. So basically no one has a warranty on the whole game at this point.

I did. And I successfully made a claim on my play field.

Quoted from harryhoudini:

Almost none, if any at all, of these free playfields or $550 playfields were under warranty.

Mine was. And I received a warranty replacement.

Quoted from harryhoudini:

This is a manufacturing defect with the game, nothing to do with who owns the game at the time. It was created with a fault, it should be fixed at the game level not the owner. JJP isn't off the hook because someone else owns the game now.

You HAVE heard of the phrase caveat emptor, right? You bought a used machine. Your game had defects. You own the defects now.

You said it yourself; it's not a warranty issue. Fine. Then we're done here. And so is JJP. They're not going to help you. I really don't understand how you could possibly think that they owe you anything.

#2874 66 days ago

Ahh yes so all these people that have got their free play fields can sell their machine for a hefty profit and then request another 1000 for the play field. This is not an issue of 1 or 2 machines though. At the point where people are getting free play fields that don’t even own the game anymore Harry should be entitled just like everyone else to have a replacement play field. It’s not that they have to, its the right thing to do.

#2875 65 days ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

I did. And I successfully made a claim on my play field.

Mine was. And I received a warranty replacement.

You HAVE heard of the phrase caveat emptor, right? You bought a used machine. Your game had defects. You own the defects now.
You said it yourself; it's not a warranty issue. Fine. Then we're done here. And so is JJP. They're not going to help you. I really don't understand how you could possibly think that they owe you anything.

Do you want a medal for being one of the few, if maybe only the single person, who this applied to?

They owe every single game a replacement playfield that has the manufacturing defect. They don't get to produce shitty quality products and then, since the issue isn't known right away, get off without fixing it because the original owner sold it. It's not about buying a product with issues, it's about an inherent manufacturing defect which JJP knew about, changed production on their line, notified NO one and did nothing to prevent issues from happening with games already sold. Until they were bombarded with people reporting issues they did nothing, not a damn thing to prevent further issues on already made and sold games. Then, and only then, did they issue the "kit" to "prevent" the issues, but was only after all the owners here started figuring that out on their own and bought their own fixes. Only after our extensive work here (and costs that I ate to send certified letters) did JJP offer the $550 playfield, which I accepted because I frankly had no other option at the time and I didn't want to be the idiot who didn't take up the offer that JJP finally gave after dealing with this issue so much. Then Jack calls some owners directly to tell them they won the lottery and are getting a free playfield.

They don't specifically *owe* me anything. They also don't owe the other owners who are out of warranty anything. But they decided to offer the $550 and then select people got the free one. Should I not take Jack at his word that he would treat all owner the same? He can't give special treatment to one and not the other, his words. Btw, he seemed to assume that is what I was asking for when it was the furthest from the truth. I wanted a solution, the same solution, for everyone who owned a game that had the manufacturing defect. If they were smart, for long term benefit, they would care more about the reputation of their product and making owners happy and repeat customers but this is obviously much more political than professional (seems like a lot in this industry is).

Yes, it's rhetorical as I know by now that Jack does not stand by the words he says and JJP as a company is not someone who will fully stand by the products they produce. I should have known that when I had to buy the decals to fix the WOZ playfield that had manufacturing defects. Now I know, I won't expect anything else from them and I won't buy their games as much as I would have wanted a Wonka.

#2876 65 days ago

Such a shady industry.

#2877 65 days ago

And because why not..

"In an effort to protect consumers and buyers, legislatures and courts have increasingly developed theories of “implied” or statutory warranties in which a certain minimum criteria of performance is imposed as a matter of law even if the parties, themselves, did not agree upon a warranty or even consider whether a warranty should be provided."

"Warranty of fitness for normal use. A merchant seller makes an implied warranty of the merchantability of the goods sold. This warranty is in fact a larger set of warranties, the most important of which is that the goods are fit for the ordinary purposes for which they are sold."

"To impose liability for breach of the implied warranty of merchantability, it is ordinarily necessary to show that there was a defect in the product and that this defect made the product not fit for its normal use and that this caused the plaintiff’s harm. A product may be defective because there is:

a manufacturing defect,
a design defect,
inadequate instruction on how to use the product, or
inadequate warning against dangers involved in using the product."

https://www.stimmel-law.com/en/articles/basics-warranties

Even India knows this:

"Merely because warranty period has expired, would not absolve the opposite parties, manufacturer or seller of the goods, from the liability if it (product) suffered from an inherent manufacturing defect..," the North District Consumer Disputes Redressal Forum said.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/cons-products/electronics/expiry-of-warranty-no-defence-if-product-has-inherent-defect/articleshow/19359949.cms

"Additionally, in many cases manufacturing defects are caused by the manufacturer's negligence even though plaintiffs may have difficulty proving it. Strict liability in these cases allows deserving plaintiffs to succeed notwithstanding what would otherwise be difficult or insurmountable problems of proof."

https://corporate.findlaw.com/litigation-disputes/product-liability-manufacturing-defects-vs-design-defects.html

"The Uniform Commercial Code, a set of laws adopted in much the same form by all states and the District of Columbia, provides an automatic “implied warranty of merchantability.” That unwritten protection guarantees that consumer products are free of substantial defects and will function properly for a reasonable period of time."

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2013/05/the-word-on-warranty-protection/index.htm

"Recently, the Supreme Court of Texas examined whether a buyer of used goods may assert claims based on the implied warranty of merchantability. .... The implied warranty of merchantability assures buyers that goods are “fit for the ordinary purposes for which such goods are used.” .... The Court ultimately held that a buyer of used goods may assert implied warranty claims against a product manufacturer."

https://www.krcl.com/articles/litigation-update/new-look-implied-warranties-used-goods/

#2878 65 days ago

Minor cosmetic defects do not make "the product not fit for its normal use."

#2879 65 days ago
Quoted from bbulkley:

That said the warranty explicitly says it only covers the original owner.

So......that means the original owner has the ability to claim, knowing there was an issue, and then pleasantly pass that onto the person they sold the game to. Bingo! Problem solved.

I can only say, if I bought a game secondhand, and this happened, I'd love if the original owner stepped up to bat for me. If they didn't, then I'd feel sour not just towards the company, but the person I bought the game from.

This....is why I don't buy new games, still available new, secondhand.

Quoted from bbulkley:

Minor cosmetic defects do not make "the product not fit for its normal use."

If the posts, map hole, tortuga area start to loosen due to crack and chips, or the slings fire incorrectly, wouldn't that be a functional issue?

#2880 65 days ago
Quoted from wesman:

So......that means the original owner has the ability to claim, knowing there was an issue, and then pleasantly pass that onto the person they sold the game to. Bingo! Problem solved.

If the posts, map hole, tortuga area start to loosen due to crack and chips, or the slings fire incorrectly, wouldn't that be a functional issue?

If you sell a game to someone and don't disclose any defects, you're a POS. No argument there. If you demand a replacement PF and then sell it for a profit, that's a scummy move too.

I'm not a lawyer but I doubt a jury is going to consider a loose hole worth damages.

#2881 65 days ago
Quoted from bbulkley:

Minor cosmetic defects do not make "the product not fit for its normal use."

Tell that to someone wanting to resell their game with chips in the playfield.

"The classic no-injury product defect case involves a consumer with no personal injury or property damage, who merely alleges the product is worth less than the purchase price because of an alleged defect that was revealed after the purchase. Accordingly, the plaintiff often seeks to recover an alleged diminution in value – the difference in value between the defective product and the intended product."

"Most of these claims are brought as class actions that attempt to aggregate the small economic losses into larger, cumulative nationwide or statewide claims. While there are additional legal hurdles posed by class actions, there is a strong incentive for plaintiffs’ counsel to seek class certification due to the possibility of combining numerous small injuries or recovering attorney’s fees. In a class action, a diminution of value may be sought on behalf of numerous purchasers of the product, so the cumulative damages sought by plaintiffs can be significant."

https://www.sgrlaw.com/ttl-articles/products-liability-litigation/

" In Santor v. A&MKaragheusian, Inc., 4 for example,
the New Jersey Supreme Court permitted a consumer who purchased
defective carpeting to recover his damages for loss of bargain under a
strict liability theory on the ground that the seller should not escape
liability because the consumer suffered an economic loss rather than a
personal injury. "

https://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2602&context=wlulr

#2882 65 days ago

Start a class action - I have no issue with that.

There are clearly people here who are upset, and I acknowledge and respect that. There are also people who aren't upset. That's ok too.

#2883 65 days ago

I agree. Just clarifying that the product is not unfit for use but still includes a manufacturing defect. It is not an injury related product liability claim, but a claim none the less. It does not need to be a class action suit, that's just a typical option since most remedies are relatively small it makes sense to combine complainants.

#2884 65 days ago

Deep breath, everyone! We can all be friends here!

I'm going to enjoy my pins now ;P

#2885 65 days ago

The only people who get anything out of a class action suit are the lawyers.

#2886 65 days ago

Just removed some posts on my Haunted House. You can see that the posts have dug into the clear and I have artwork missing. Currently on the phone with the guy who sold me the game 6 years ago, going to ask if he can contact the manufacturer and get me a new playfield...wish me luck.

20200127_171934 (resized).jpg

#2887 65 days ago
Quoted from bbulkley:

Minor cosmetic defects do not make "the product not fit for its normal use."

The fuck it doesn’t. If I pay 10-12 large for a pin and the pf is trash within a year it damn sure makes me not want the game anymore, and what do you think it will look like in 4-5 years. The game probably won’t be working anymore anyway the way these new games go. The PDFs on W/B games have lasted 20 years or more and the PFs on a lot of them still look great. Stern and Jack can’t make a game that will stay together for for any time at all. If I could afford to buy these games there is no way in hell that I would.

#2888 65 days ago
Quoted from solarvalue:

Just removed some posts on my Haunted House. You can see that the posts have dug into the clear and I have artwork missing. Currently on the phone with the guy who sold me the game 6 years ago, going to ask if he can contact the manufacturer and get me a new playfield...wish me luck.
[quoted image]

Actually, you can contact the surviving entity of D. Gottlieb & Company: gottlieb@mondialgroup.com

#2889 65 days ago

If your the original owner of a game, and you sell it while its still under warranty than I reasonable seller will always support the new buyer if theres an issue. Why wouldn't he? I've done this once on a CGC game, and I told the buyer if he ever has an issue while its still under "my" original warranty than let me know and we'll work together to figure it out....we as consumers get screwed enough by Stern and JJP why not help each other out if we can?

#2890 65 days ago

Received notice from JJP today my Pirates LE Playfield shipped.

1 week later
#2891 54 days ago

Any affected CE users have their playfields replaced yet?

Jeff

#2892 54 days ago
Quoted from Vitty:

This is a very difficult problem to deal with. Root cause probably traces back to the playfield manufacturer and the pin manufacturers are having to deal with the fallout. Shipping a fully populated playfield is extremely difficult. They would have to first fabricate and test brand new packaging to ensure no damage will occur and that it can withstand some amount of dropping. This would have to be done once per pin. In shipping something this delicate and varying, there is no one size fits all solution. If you have ever gone through this process, it is not cheap nor is it fast to get through. The second option would be to have people ship their entire pin back to them. This is also very expensive and full of risk.
I'm not sure what a good answer is here unfortunately. I sympathize with both sides in this case. What a conundrum!

Why wouldn't the answer be for JJP to... 1) Send a new playfield 2) Pay a professional technician that they recommend in your area to do the swap

That's the only realistic way to deal with this that doesn't require crazy populated playfield shipping drama and crazy "deep water" labor time by the purchaser, if they could do the job at all.

#2893 54 days ago
Quoted from jfaulkner56:

Why wouldn't the answer be for JJP to... 1) Send a new playfield 2) Pay a professional technician that they recommend in your area to do the swap
That's the only realistic way to deal with this that doesn't require crazy populated playfield shipping drama and crazy "deep water" labor time by the purchaser, if they could do the job at all.

You would never find that many Qualified playfield techs in Any area. You would be shipping it anyway And now they would be liable for that service. No way they would freelance a project like this.

#2894 53 days ago
Quoted from jfaulkner56:

Why wouldn't the answer be for JJP to... 1) Send a new playfield 2) Pay a professional technician that they recommend in your area to do the swap
That's the only realistic way to deal with this that doesn't require crazy populated playfield shipping drama and crazy "deep water" labor time by the purchaser, if they could do the job at all.

Ill swap them for 1000.

1 week later
#2895 46 days ago
Quoted from jfaulkner56:

Why wouldn't the answer be for JJP to... 1) Send a new playfield 2) Pay a professional technician that they recommend in your area to do the swap
That's the only realistic way to deal with this that doesn't require crazy populated playfield shipping drama and crazy "deep water" labor time by the purchaser, if they could do the job at all.

Clearly what u describe is what should be done, but JJP and Stern have zero interest in paying for it. Thats really the big problem in this industry. They want to sell you high priced games yet really have no interest providing a real warranty. They are all great at getting on the phone and helping you diagnose a problem, and subsequently send spare parts, but when it comes to the labor they all disappear quickly.

-6
#2896 46 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Clearly what u describe is what should be done, but JJP and Stern have zero interest in paying for it. Thats really the big problem in this industry. They want to sell you high priced games yet really have no interest providing a real warranty. They are all great at getting on the phone and helping you diagnose a problem, and subsequently send spare parts, but when it comes to the labor they all disappear quickly.

Do you really think that if you bought a new car and had a chip the size of a nickel the dealer would repaint the entire car I don't think so

#2897 46 days ago
Quoted from JY64:

Do you really think that if you bought a new car and had a chip the size of a nickel the dealer would repaint the entire car I don't think so

No, but a dealer will do the labor needed to repair whatever manufacturing defects they created. My sister bought a new Toyota (Stern) and had some stitching coming out of one of her seats. The dealer replaced both front seats.

I had an Audi that had one, repeated manufacturing defect. They bought the car back from me (thanks to CA lemon law, but still).

Pinball? Eh fack you for even talking about issues. It's pinball, just enjoy repairing everything!

#2898 46 days ago
Quoted from JY64:

Do you really think that if you bought a new car and had a chip the size of a nickel the dealer would repaint the entire car I don't think so

I actually think they would provide the labor and repaint the area that needed repainting...the whole car wouldn't require a new paint job just like the whole pinball machine wouldn't need to be replaced.....the difference is yes they would do ALL the work if the vehicle was new and under warranty.

#2899 46 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

I actually think they would provide the labor and repaint the area that needed repainting...the whole car wouldn't require a new paint job just like the whole pinball machine wouldn't need to be replaced.....the difference is yes they would do ALL the work if the vehicle was new and under warranty.

Bought a new class a motorhome this past fall which had a very small paint blemish, hardly noticeable unless sun hit it at certain angle. They are repainting the entire front cap where it is that color, under warranty.

#2900 46 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

I actually think they would provide the labor and repaint the area that needed repainting...the whole car wouldn't require a new paint job just like the whole pinball machine wouldn't need to be replaced.....the difference is yes they would do ALL the work if the vehicle was new and under warranty.

Sounds good to me a person who does touchup on chipping playfields as for pooling suck it up

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