(Topic ID: 242867)

PoTC - Who has playfield cracking & wear around sling posts?


By harryhoudini

6 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 2,737 posts
  • 207 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 days ago by joseph5185
  • Topic is favorited by 62 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“What kind of issues are you seeing?”

  • I have visible dimples but no chipping 34 votes
    18%
  • I can see chipping but haven't done anything yet 62 votes
    34%
  • I can see chipping and installed mylar, washer and/or larger star post 28 votes
    15%
  • My playfield looks fine (but I haven't removed the star posts) 30 votes
    16%
  • I removed the star posts and my playfield looks fine 15 votes
    8%
  • My game had clear washers installed from the factory 15 votes
    8%

(Multiple choice - 184 votes by 174 Pinsiders)

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Topic index (key posts)

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There are 2737 posts in this topic. You are on page 54 of 55.
#2651 30 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I've been using a pant steam press with good effect. It's got a much larger surface area, lower heat and it's gentle with the steam. You have to strip the entire playfield down first, granted. And it needs to dry for a good several days after you are done but boy does it take the wrinkles out.

Steam and wood does not sound like a good idea.

#2652 29 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Stand down. Do NOT start obsessing and ironing your playfield. This is not a thing you need to worry about.
Trust me, for your own good.

LOL

#2653 29 days ago
Quoted from Axl:

Steam and wood does not sound like a good idea.

My sauna begs to differ.

#2654 29 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

My sauna begs to differ.

Your sauna also isnt make of partially clearcoated plywood and also probably has some type of hydrophobic sealant.

#2655 29 days ago
Quoted from GnarLee:

Your sauna also isnt make of partially clearcoated plywood and also probably has some type of hydrophobic sealant.

It's made of playfields.

#2656 29 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

It's made of playfields.

This post is beautiful in every way.

#2657 29 days ago

Ah screw it, I disputed the transaction. After looking at the dates, the interactions I've had with Jack and his ignoring of my subsequent contacts I'm done. JJP still doesn't get it and barely stepped up like we all gave them credit for.

#2658 29 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I disputed the transaction.

Which transaction?

#2659 29 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Ah screw it, I disputed the transaction. After looking at the dates, the interactions I've had with Jack and his ignoring of my subsequent contacts I'm done. JJP still doesn't get it and barely stepped up like we all gave them credit for.

I look forward to seeing how this plays out.

#2660 29 days ago
Quoted from solarvalue:

Which transaction?

The credit card charge for my replacement playfield. Before Jack started calling people to tell them they were getting a refund/getting a free playfield I paid for one for fear I would have no other option. Subsequently, I have no received a call, no replies to my emails. It's been 2 months I think since I paid for it and more than a month since the first posts here that Jack personally called people.

Furthermore, Jack told me personally on the phone many, many months ago that he would work on a solution for everyone and would treat everyone the same (he had to give the same "deal" to everyone). So either he forgot my number, lost my emails or doesn't want to talk to me or give me a refund.

#2661 29 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

The credit card charge for my replacement playfield.

So you are going to return the replacement playfield?

#2662 29 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

The credit card charge for my replacement playfield. Before Jack started calling people to tell them they were getting a refund/getting a free playfield I paid for one for fear I would have no other option. Subsequently, I have no received a call, no replies to my emails. It's been 2 months I think since I paid for it and more than a month since the first posts here that Jack personally called people.
Furthermore, Jack told me personally on the phone many, many months ago that he would work on a solution for everyone and would treat everyone the same (he had to give the same "deal" to everyone). So either he forgot my number, lost my emails or doesn't want to talk to me or give me a refund.

The credit card company will request proof that you returned the play field.

#2663 29 days ago

I don't need to return it. Jack told the folks who posted here that JJP is providing free playfields to those who have cracks/chips and that those who paid would get refunded. I didn't tell the CC company I returned it.

Are you all new to this thread?

#2664 29 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I don't need to return it. Jack told the folks who posted here that JJP is providing free playfields to those who have cracks/chips and that those who paid would get refunded. I didn't tell the CC company I returned it.
Are you all new to this thread?

I’m not new, but I’m wondering if the CC company will require that you return the playfield or whether they will ask you to prove what Jack told the other folks whose machines suffer from the playfield issues.

#2665 29 days ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

I’m not new, but I’m wondering if the CC company will require that you return the playfield or whether they will ask you to prove what Jack told the other folks whose machines suffer from the playfield issues.

Probably nothing. It's insignificant enough they likely won't contact me or just write a statement. That's my guess.

#2666 29 days ago

Wow what cc do you have. I have been requested to provide proof that I sent back a $50 item before receiving chargeback meanwhile your doing a $550 chargeback and don’t expect them to ask questions

#2667 28 days ago
Quoted from GnarLee:

Wow what cc do you have. I have been requested to provide proof that I sent back a $50 item before receiving chargeback meanwhile your doing a $550 chargeback and don’t expect them to ask questions

This one is a Citi Costco card. I put a lot of money through it and rarely dispute. Not sure if that means anything but each time they seem to credit me right away and then follow-up later if they want detail. Most often they do not.

#2668 26 days ago

Just leave the PF in a hot car in the summer time. That will cure the clear. I have done it before. You will get a good buzz when you drive for a while.

#2669 25 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Ah screw it, I disputed the transaction. After looking at the dates, the interactions I've had with Jack and his ignoring of my subsequent contacts I'm done. JJP still doesn't get it and barely stepped up like we all gave them credit for.

Here's my shocked face *sarcasm*
I suspect after this goes through and you win (which you will), you'll be red flagged. Your support tickets will start going unanswered.

#2670 25 days ago

He's already red flagged that's why he had to dispute the charges.

#2671 25 days ago

Good luck harryhoudini. Crazy that you have to take the step of disputing the charge but clearly JJP treats some of their customers a bit differently.

#2672 25 days ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

He's already red flagged that's why he had to dispute the charges.

Being "red flagged" at JJP had better not be a thing. That would be a serious PR nightmare if the public ever learned about such retaliation.

-wonka owner #08742206, play field #105, clear coat case #5107

#2673 25 days ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Being "red flagged" at JJP had better not be a thing. That would be a serious PR nightmare if the public ever learned about such retaliation.
-wonka owner #08742206, play field #105, clear coat case #5107

All companies eventually ignore their worst customers. Some customers just aren't worth the hassle.

#2674 25 days ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Being "red flagged" at JJP had better not be a thing. That would be a serious PR nightmare if the public ever learned about such retaliation.
-wonka owner #08742206, play field #105, clear coat case #5107

Check this post out from someone who did the unthinkable and asked a question.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wonka-le-sling-post-chipping-/page/21#post-5172763

#2675 25 days ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

All companies eventually ignore their worst customers. Some customers just aren't worth the hassle.

While that can be true sometimes I don’t think it’s the case here. This is more about the issue than the customer, and I think JJP has handled this issue pretty poorly for all customers. And I think they’ve ignored Harry on this because his voice was very prominent (I think even primary) in bringing the whole playfield issue to everyone’s attention. And I don’t care if he wasn’t the first owner of the machine, the product was originally shipped with a defect so they should address it for any current owner.

I think everyone who had an issue with chipping and pooling and everyone in the future who hopefully won’t have an issue because of recent changes made to the clear coat process owes a thank you to Harry, myself included. Without the issue being pressed by customers like Harry I don’t think it would have been addressed anywhere near as quickly by manufacturers, if at all.

#2676 25 days ago

Is there a way to directly email or contact Mr Jack form JJP?

#2677 25 days ago
Quoted from Oneangrymo:

Is there a way to directly email or contact Mr Jack form JJP?

Jack Guarnieri <jack@jerseyjackpinball.com>
(732) 433-4333

#2678 25 days ago

Ill just give JJP the benefit of the doubt and understand they are probably just busy and short staffed. I found a replacement monitor, but want them to tell me if it will work, i dont care if they wont send me a replacement or fix the current one I have, just some communication would be nice.

#2679 25 days ago
Quoted from Oneangrymo:

Ill just give JJP the benefit of the doubt and understand they are probably just busy and short staffed. I found a replacement monitor, but want them to tell me if it will work, i dont care if they wont send me a replacement or fix the current one I have, just some communication would be nice.

It seems like if the communication may make them money (potential sale), you’ll get someone on the phone immediately.

If the communication may cost them money, it’s crickets.

#2680 25 days ago

Do you guys think JJP is in trouble or something? Like maybe financially can't keep it up?

#2681 25 days ago

I don't think I'm "flagged" per say, although that was a fear I had for sure. I've ordered parts since this has started, I don't *think* JJP is that malicious. I do think that Jack has ill thoughts towards me either because I spoke up and riled the crowd or because I'm not the original owner. But as eaglepin has eloquently stated it should not matter. Maybe it's just an oversight, but I think he would know my name by now. I would have thought I would be one of the first ones he would have called, I would have been so happy to post that JJP did the right thing.

I've typed this many times now; the long and short is that no one that has a playfield issue is covered under warranty unless they registered the new game within 5 days AND it is still within 30 days of your delivery (AND you are the first owner). Otherwise, no one has a warranty except on electronics (for 1 year if the game isn't routed). So, for most of us there is no warranty to cover the playfield and this entire playfield issue isn't related at all to the limited warranty at this point.

I was told on the phone by Jack that he would treat all customers the same in regard to any recompense or solution that was provided, he was very clear that he couldn't do anything special for one customer over another. I wasn't asking for this, of course, but he made sure to tell me such. Since JJP hasn't released any statement I know of in this regard I can only go based on what others have posted. Since Jack hasn't responded to me and Frank is no longer with the company I'm not sure who I would ask but since no one is handling it I disputed it based on that information. If the other people lied, which I have no reason to believe, and no one is getting a free playfield then this isn't over. If it's true (again, which I believe) then everyone who has chipping (which seems to be the line that is drawn in the sand) should be getting a free playfield or refunded for the one they purchased (at a discount or not). That's what Jack said, that's what is fair and the dispute was the next step.

Never got a response from any of the certified letters that were sent, btw.

#2682 25 days ago
Quoted from Oneangrymo:

Do you guys think JJP is in trouble or something? Like maybe financially can't keep it up?

No indications of this, don't think we should try to speculate necessarily. It's not unheard of for JJP to drop the ball on customers. I can't count how many times I read of someone not getting a response only for the reply (from JJP folks or just pinsiders) to them to suggest they need to figure out another way to contact JJP. Like, if they have a support form then that should be the only contact necessary.

I'm going to guess, based on my own experience as a business owner, that they are short staffed and have tight budgets to deal with. Frank, head of support, recently left and there is nothing to indicate he was replaced. Sales are going to be most important which is tied to new game launches and development. Extended support does nothing but provide good will for them, I doubt they make much on parts after the time and labor to stock, inventory, process orders, ship, etc. Hopefully they retain a customer by taking care of their issues. Creating POTC v1.0 puts $0 in their pockets. Same as taking care of playfield issues. Only when it affects new game sales would it likely be a concern to JJP, which was the point of this thread in the long run. If pinball media start covering the issues (which did happen, it seems) then buyers may be concerned and orders cancelled (I cancelled my Wonka, phew) which will then affect bottom line. But if games are selling out (no idea) then why bother trying to keep up the reputation?

All that being said, who here doesn't want JJP to exist anymore? I want more JJP games. That doesn't mean I want to eat it on a borked playfield where in any other industry I'd expect a manufacturer to create a quality product inline with the function it serves for a reasonable amount of time before going tits up. Playfield life is not a finite number of years but clearly new games should not have chipping within a year. Any reasonable person would agree that the quality of the playfields that have wood showing, clear flaking off and art removed is lacking and should be replaced by the manufacturer. No other industry I know of would have a manufacturing flaw and then charge customers for replacement parts within a year of selling the product. I don't think JJP has any sort of blatant legal responsibility based on their warranty or quality claims (no one states a playfield should last X years before chipping) but I would also think any judge or jury would agree that the minimum response would be replacement playfields. If I had to get a replacement seat for my new car because the stitching was coming undone they wouldn't sell it to me for half retail and expect me to install it.

But this is a small, unique industry with mostly fanatics as the customers so it's in our best interest to support the manufacturers. That doesn't mean accepting sub par quality and manufacturing at additional expense to the retail price. It should be a two way street. We support JJP with game purchases, parts, swag, spreading the word... and they support the industry with quality products and customer service to back that up.

#2683 25 days ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

It seems like if the communication may make them money (potential sale), you’ll get someone on the phone immediately.
If the communication may cost them money, it’s crickets.

Not really. I’ve been trying to buy a significant replacement part for close to a month and can’t get a quote to place the order despite numerous phone calls and emails. Their technical (parts) support seems to be overwhelmed due to short staffing or other issues. It’s very frustrating.

#2684 25 days ago
Quoted from luckymoey:

Not really. I’ve been trying to buy a significant replacement part for close to a month and can’t get a quote to place the order despite numerous phone calls and emails. Their technical (parts) support seems to be overwhelmed due to short staffing or other issues. It’s very frustrating.

Did you email Shannan? She has been responsive to me, always.

#2685 25 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Did you email Shannan? She has been responsive to me, always.

She’s great for placing orders but I need Steve to give her the part information and quote first.

#2686 25 days ago
Quoted from luckymoey:

She’s great for placing orders but I need Steve to give her the part information and quote first.

Ah doh. Do you need part numbers? I've gotten pretty good at finding stuff in the manual. Not everything is in there, granted, but maybe we can help?

#2687 25 days ago

Fwiw, my support ticket from 28 days ago has gone unanswered other than the auto reply.

I have a CE that I will keep indefinitely... i just hope I can have a playfield that is issue free, rather than what I have now that is covered up with temporary measures to keep the problems hidden.

#2688 25 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Ah doh. Do you need part numbers? I've gotten pretty good at finding stuff in the manual. Not everything is in there, granted, but maybe we can help?

No. I know my way around the manual. It’s a partial assembly so tech service needs to define and put together a quote. No need to go into detail. Was just sharing my concern and frustration with the change in JJP support that has historically been a strength in my experience. Thanks anyway.

#2689 25 days ago
Quoted from Genjuro:

Fwiw, my support ticket from 28 days ago has gone unanswered other than the auto reply.
I have a CE that I will keep indefinitely... i just hope I can have a playfield that is issue free, rather than what I have now that is covered up with temporary measures to keep the problems hidden.

This thread is not instilling much confidence.

#2690 25 days ago

I finally got an email conversation going with one of the fellas over JJP. My game is fairly defect free...for now. I noticed some mushrooming around a couple posts, mostly the tortuga. Every potential problem area has been covered by a cliffy or the washer fix, so I couldn't send them pics without removing those things, which I didn't feel like doing. I just wanted them to be aware of a potential issue and what my recourse would be if I had major issues down the road.
I was told that if something should happen in the future, they could send me a playfield. So, how long will they have playfields in inventory? Months/years?...

#2691 25 days ago

I wonder if mr Jack is well ? Maybe there is some health issue going on . Hope he’s ok

#2692 25 days ago
Quoted from Oneangrymo:

I wonder if mr Jack is well ? Maybe there is some health issue going on . Hope he’s ok

He was at expo walking around the show and spoke at his seminar. I’m sure he’s a pretty busy guy.

#2693 24 days ago
Quoted from Oneangrymo:

Do you guys think JJP is in trouble or something? Like maybe financially can't keep it up?

Quoted from Oneangrymo:

I wonder if mr Jack is well ? Maybe there is some health issue going on . Hope he’s ok

Regardless of these two things possibly being true that’s no excuse for ignoring customers with a defective product.

#2694 24 days ago
Quoted from Tyamry:

I have a CE that I received on April 2, 2019 that has the
washers already installed.[quoted image][quoted image]

Have you happened to look under them? They are metal, yea?

If the playfield is soft then the meal washers could likely dig in. Would be interested to know if they are or if there are any other locations (narrow metal posts, other narrow plastic posts) where you have dimpling or buildup of clear?

#2695 24 days ago
Quoted from Lermods:

He was at expo walking around the show and spoke at his seminar. I’m sure he’s a pretty busy guy.

Ah yeah, that reminded me. Did anyone see this?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wwcf-club-wonka-golden-tickets-inside/page/60#post-5267406

#2696 24 days ago
Quoted from gliebig:

I was told that if something should happen in the future, they could send me a playfield. So, how long will they have playfields in inventory? Months/years?...

I am curious if they are going to have the same policy regarding CE playfields considering the limited number.

#2697 23 days ago
Quoted from gliebig:

I was told that if something should happen in the future, they could send me a playfield. So, how long will they have playfields in inventory? Months/years?...

This is awesome to hear!

Given the current state of technology, so long as JJP is around, I imagine they can print a playfield on demand if necessary.

#2698 23 days ago
Quoted from joseph5185:

This is awesome to hear!
Given the current state of technology, so long as JJP is around, I imagine they can print a playfield on demand if necessary.

I think he's saying quite the opposite, that it's doubtful or anxiety inducing how long they might have playfields for, currently or down the road.

Mirco does playfields for JJP currently, aaaaallllll the way over in Germany.

#2699 23 days ago

Ok so I tested the hair dryer method on one sling post on my Wonka and it worked pretty well actually. You could see a line where the clear coat had bunched up but it went smooth again. Big improvement. This gives me hope all my bunched posts on my POTC can be saved before they chip. So far I have one chip on the playfield I can’t hide. I’m thinking of using the hair dryer and some neoprene washers. Once the bunched up clearcoat is smoothed much less likely to chip. I am very curious how many other people have tried that method and how successful it has been. Please post your results.

#2700 19 days ago

Anyone get the free replacement PF yet?

Jack told me on the phone back on 9/5 it would be a few weeks.

We are now coming up on 2 months, nothing but crickets!

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