(Topic ID: 242867)

PoTC - Who has playfield cracking & wear around sling posts?


By harryhoudini

6 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 2,728 posts
  • 206 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 days ago by wesman
  • Topic is favorited by 62 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic poll

“What kind of issues are you seeing?”

  • I have visible dimples but no chipping 34 votes
    19%
  • I can see chipping but haven't done anything yet 61 votes
    33%
  • I can see chipping and installed mylar, washer and/or larger star post 28 votes
    15%
  • My playfield looks fine (but I haven't removed the star posts) 30 votes
    16%
  • I removed the star posts and my playfield looks fine 15 votes
    8%
  • My game had clear washers installed from the factory 15 votes
    8%

(Multiple choice - 183 votes by 173 Pinsiders)

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Topic index (key posts)

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There are 2728 posts in this topic. You are on page 44 of 55.
#2151 88 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

So it falls apart?

Nothing. Play the game and enjoy it and sell it at a loss later; just like every other pinball machine.

I am in the same boat. Bought a playfield because this game is never leaving the house. Now I play it like I stole it and not worry about it. When the time comes 5 to 15 years down the road in goes the new playfield. This game is way to fun not to play it like it was intended to be played.

#2152 87 days ago

Anyone listen to the latest Kaneda podcast? Apparently the playfield topic is discussed. I've never listened before but I'll find some time to play it soon.

#2153 87 days ago

Harryhoudini, listen to the show as he discusses the issue and refers to you.

#2154 87 days ago
Quoted from cliff_clavin:

Harryhoudini, listen to the show as he discusses the issue and refers to you.

Had a listen. You’re famous Harry.

#2155 87 days ago
Quoted from cliff_clavin:

Harryhoudini, listen to the show as he discusses the issue and refers to you.

15:00 mark

#2156 87 days ago

Oh boy, this should be interesting. I'll have to wait until the weekend, too much to do right now.

#2157 87 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Oh boy, this should be interesting. ....

I wouldn't jump to any conclusions.

#2158 87 days ago

I mean, apparently I didn't have to reach out to any media yet. So.. nice.

Still haven't sent the letters that got returned. Been swamped with mods.

#2159 87 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I mean, apparently I didn't have to reach out to any media yet. So.. nice.
Still haven't sent the letters that got returned. Been swamped with mods.

He mentioned that he would like to have you as a guest on the podcast. All-in-all he speaks highly of you and your efforts (both with mods and the playfield issues).

I would say this is the first "media" to call out JJP on the playfield issue.

#2160 87 days ago

You should go on kanedas show. He treats his guests respectfully and your message would reach around 2000 listeners. Would not hurt your mod business either.

Cheers.

#2161 87 days ago
Quoted from cliff_clavin:

You should go on kanedas show. He treats his guests respectfully and your message would reach around 2000 listeners. Would not hurt your mod business either.
Cheers.

Just remember he does have it in for pirates. I don’t know why he continually says he does not get it? It’s not that hard. Qualify a chapter. Start a chapter. Shoot targets. Play a lot of multiballs. How can someone give reviews of a game when they have hardly played a working copy or taken the time to read up on it first? I actually find my Deadpool more hectic and confusing than pirates. I love them both, but you have to read the rule set before you give it a go.

And you have to play a machine that has been levelled and is working.

Kudos to him about how he does treat his guests. He was very respectful of zaphx..

And everything I have just said is not relevant to the topic at hand I know.

#2162 87 days ago
Quoted from gumnut01:

Just remember he [Kaneda] does have it in for pirates.

In a recent podcast, he talked about buying a Pirates CE, but this is when The Big Lebowski also became available, so he was wrestling with the implications of buying/owning one-too-many pins.

#2163 86 days ago

FYI I was charged for the playfield (charged, refunded and charged again).

Letters to the two returned addresses sent UPS ($30!)

Played a bit of the podcast (not sure where my name starts and ends), pretty cool. Glad someone took up the topic without having to shop it around to media. Should be easier to get others to pick up the story as well and I think he made some really good points.

#2164 85 days ago

following...

#2165 85 days ago
Quoted from Amused_to_Death:

In a recent podcast, he talked about buying a Pirates CE, but this is when The Big Lebowski also became available, so he was wrestling with the implications of buying/owning one-too-many pins.

He was only buying Pirates to flip it. Same with Big Lebowski.

-1
#2166 85 days ago
Quoted from Crile1:

He was only buying Pirates to flip it. Same with Big Lebowski.

That's not what he said.

#2167 85 days ago
Quoted from pipes:

That's not what he said.

Well, lets remember what "he said" pre-release about how Wonka was amazing innovation that would blow minds and change pinball. In reality, nothing in Wonka is innovative. It lacks a siginificant amount of imagination.

Essentially, you can't take anything he says as gospel.

#2168 85 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Essentially, you can't take anything he says as gospel.

Perhaps, but he also hasn't done anything with those games yet and I did only mention that that's "not what he said", which is true. He seems to just want to pass POTC CE to someone else for what his deal was - $13500. That doesn't seem unreasonable considering what LE's are going for. Besides, I don't really care what he does, that's his business anyways.

#2169 84 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Well, lets remember what "he said" pre-release about how Wonka was amazing innovation that would blow minds and change pinball. In reality, nothing in Wonka is innovative. It lacks a siginificant amount of imagination.
Essentially, you can't take anything he says as gospel.

But you still listen.

#2170 84 days ago
Quoted from Adipocere:

But you still listen.

I do not. It was quoted here. I don't understand the fascination with him. He's a pinball zero IMO.

#2171 84 days ago
Quoted from Adipocere:

But you still listen.

His detractors certainly seem to be the ones that are most fascinated by him. Weird how that works.

#2172 84 days ago
Quoted from pipes:

His detractors certainly seem to be the ones that are most fascinated by him. Weird how that works.

LOL. Yup. I'm sure he relishes it. So, if someone really does dislike the guy, it would be best to not say anything at all. Nothing is worse than being ignored.

#2173 84 days ago

These PF issues are a complete disgrace to pinball. It’s really unbelievable. Makes modern pins look more and more inferior to what we had in the 90’s. IMO the only thing modern pins now have over older pins is an LCD screen, better sound and deeper code. The modern pins are inferior in every other way and that should be unacceptable to those who pay these high prices. If a company doesn’t survive because of poor quality that they could easily improve on I could care less if they go under. That’s on them 100%.

#2174 83 days ago

harryhoudini did you ever get your playfield?

#2175 83 days ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

These PF issues are a complete disgrace to pinball. It’s really unbelievable. Makes modern pins look more and more inferior to what we had in the 90’s. IMO the only thing modern pins now have over older pins is an LCD screen, better sound and deeper code. The modern pins are inferior in every other way and that should be unacceptable to those who pay these high prices. If a company doesn’t survive because of poor quality that they could easily improve on I could care less if they go under. That’s on them 100%.

I'm with you on better sound, but LCD screen is often a waste for me and deeper code is better on Monday on BM 66 and a bore on Tuesday as I'm working away at inline drop target bonus multipliers and ripping the spinner in Fathom...

The PF issues for JJP need to be fixed or they will lose sales. The other manufacturers, it doesn't seem to be as big of an issue...I have a PoTC and have issues with the PF. I have a GoT LE and BM 66 and have no issues with the PF on either. The teensy chipping on TNA was fixed with rubber washers and was no biggie on my game/is finished/fixed. Had NO issues with AFM LE and ACNC re: PF.

#2176 82 days ago
Quoted from Pinballer67:

I'm with you on better sound, but LCD screen is often a waste for me and deeper code is better on Monday on BM 66 and a bore on Tuesday as I'm working away at inline drop target bonus multipliers and ripping the spinner in Fathom...
The PF issues for JJP need to be fixed or they will lose sales. The other manufacturers, it doesn't seem to be as big of an issue...I have a PoTC and have issues with the PF. I have a GoT LE and BM 66 and have no issues with the PF on either. The teensy chipping on TNA was fixed with rubber washers and was no biggie on my game/is finished/fixed. Had NO issues with AFM LE and ACNC re: PF.

Yep, and now Wonka seems to have a lot of the same symptoms. I'd guess when the POTC issue starting rearing up JJP already had their order in for Wonka playfields so it was too late to fix it for those machines. But if it pops up again in their next game then it'll be pretty apparent they don't intend to try to fix it. I wonder if the delay in the Wonka CE has anything to do with them trying to get it right finally.

In my conversations with them about my chip I'm still surprised they indicated their in-house personnel knew all about the mechanical & electrical aspects of the machines but didn't seem to have much knowledge about playfield matters (how to repair a chip, etc.). How can you order a key component from a supplier without knowing much about the processes involved with how the supplier makes it? Seems like a perfect recipe for ending up with bad materials in your product.

#2177 82 days ago

Harryhoudini,

There is another Kaneda podcast discussing the play field issues. He again mentioned your thread. You should reach out and go on his show. Bring more attention to this issue.

Cheers

#2178 81 days ago

Where did Harry go. Maybe JJP cut a deal with him finally. Good for him if true. Wouldn’t matter anyway at this point. Others have picked up the torch. This is not going away. Hopefully Harry is just on vacation. Lol.

#2179 81 days ago

Heh. I was traveling. Playfield was here when I got home, but haven't opened it yet to check for softness.

Cool, I'll have to check out that latest podcast.

I was hoping to wait to do any real media push until after Jack got the letter. Giving them some time to respond. It looks like UPS is delivering it tomorrow to JJP. I'm also pretty short on time right now with all the mods we are pushing out. But I'll definitely reach out.

#2180 80 days ago

Well, crazy but the new playfield seems solid. Can't make a nail mark in it. Although the quality control on the cleanup after the polish is a bit lackluster (lots of polishing compound in holes) I'm not complaining. I'm also not going to somehow verify that this playfield is good, since I'm not sure how the nail test really holds up, but I think with the proper precautions when installing posts this could be a much better coating.

Ugh, the thought of having to install all the t-nuts and clear out the holes. This isn't getting installed for a long time.

Letter was delivered to JJP today.
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#2181 79 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Well, crazy but the new playfield seems solid. Can't make a nail mark in it. Although the quality control on the cleanup after the polish is a bit lackluster (lots of polishing compound in holes) I'm not complaining. I'm also not going to somehow verify that this playfield is good, since I'm not sure how the nail test really holds up, but I think with the proper precautions when installing posts this could be a much better coating.
Ugh, the thought of having to install all the t-nuts and clear out the holes. This isn't getting installed for a long time.
Letter was delivered to JJP today.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

You could install a narrow t-nutted post in some out-of-the-way place with art (top of playfield, probably) that isn't visible when the playfield's populated and tighten it and then let it set and see if it settles into the clear as a good test.

#2182 79 days ago

wonder if the 0618 is manuf date which means it has been sitting for over a year.

#2183 79 days ago
Quoted from GnarLee:

wonder if the 0618 is manuf date which means it has been sitting for over a year.

Almost sure this is the game number.
Born dates; are usually stamped on the edges of the PF.

#2184 79 days ago
Quoted from Zitt:

Almost sure this is the game number.
Born dates; are usually stamped on the edges of the PF.

Game numbers are under the playfield in blue stamped ink. The Mirco number is a production number, if I remember correctly, but JJP doesn't go in order and has their own numbering. This playfield doesn't have a blue stamp under it because it wasn't installed in a game.

Quoted from vireland:

You could install a narrow t-nutted post in some out-of-the-way place with art (top of playfield, probably) that isn't visible when the playfield's populated and tighten it and then let it set and see if it settles into the clear as a good test.

Great idea, I will do that. Should I use one with a sharp edge?

#2185 79 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Game numbers are under the playfield in blue stamped ink. The Mirco number is a production number, if I remember correctly, but JJP doesn't go in order and has their own numbering. This playfield doesn't have a blue stamp under it because it wasn't installed in a game.

Great idea, I will do that. Should I use one with a sharp edge?

I wouldn't game it towards happening, just real-world it in an out of the way place.

#2186 79 days ago
Quoted from GnarLee:

wonder if the 0618 is manuf date

Maybe that's the number of manufacturing defects included?

#2187 79 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

I wouldn't game it towards happening, just real-world it in an out of the way place.

#2188 79 days ago
Quoted from DonnieDarko:

Maybe that's the number of manufacturing defects included?

No defects in a clear coated piece of wood.
It's hard to f'up a unpopulated PF... but I'm sure they'll try and succeed.

22
#2189 79 days ago

I AM OUT ON MY WILLY WONKA CE #12

For those of you that are wanting the #12 - I guess it will be available. I am taking a stance on this issue with the chipping playfields that or showing up on the POTC and now Willy Wonka (there might even be other as well). I have not had a chance to see the CE playfield and it might be amazing and all - But even if it is -- I am still out on my preorder.

I know we all have had fun with me being the #12 on the CE models and powder coating on the coin doors and me picking on Joe @ 3 AM and all. I am taking a stand on this issue on the chipping playfields. I understand that this has not happen to me and my games are fine and in good shape - But I have a serious problem with how this is all being handled.

So - Let me first say that I love Joe @ Pinstar and I would never do anything that would hurt him - He is a riot and puts up with my shit. He is my friend.

We got these chipping issues showing up on some of the Willy Wonka playfields and I am concern about how it is being handled by JJP with NO clear solution that is making the customer happy. I think a fair solution is a populated playfield. But that is not happening - Just giving out some washers does not fix the problem. Really the problem needs to be fixed back to the source and get this done before it blows up out of control. But, till it does - Any customer that is having a issue with chipping playfield needs to be taken care of and it needs to be done the right way.

We spend 12,500 for these games - A chipping playfied would make me PIST - I would take off work and drive that game down to the JJP factory and drop it off myself if that happened to me. But this is not about those that are paying more for a CE model. For me, I am lucky that I can do this - But I work extra long hours on weekends and nights to help pay for my hobby and boxing art collection. So, I am not different than those of you out there working from paycheck to paycheck. I work very long hours and put alot of time and passion in my plumbing company. So this is the same with Pinball - I have alot of passion for pinball and to see those around me not getting a fair solution and still upset about what is going on and having to just settle with what is going on with their game, or having to pay out $550.00 for a playfield that they should not even have to pay one penny for in my opinion.

Sorry - I can not do this and stand by and not take a stand - So Again,

I am out - WWCF Collectors Edition #12

JJP needs to do the right thing - I am not picking on any certain person @ JJP. But I am saying that JJP as a whole and as a company needs to do the right thing and till they do - I AM OUT. I am out on all games unless I work something out with Joe. I will still do business with Joe and I am hoping that this will be taken care of and if it does and I do not get #12 because I let it go - So be it. I will maybe get another number - Trust me @ 500 CE Models and with all this shit going on right now - They will be available. Heck, #1 might be available if this does not get taken care of soon.

I am not asking for a boycott - I am not trying to hurt anyone. I am just taking a stance and for me and I hope others will do the same to hopefully show JJP that we are all willing to give something up to do what it right.

JJP is a great company - But here as of late, they are not acting like one. They are making a big mistake. I am just one person, But I am my own person and I remember JJP from the early days and all I got to say is that if they will not take care of those having issues now - Who is to say that they will take care of me later. I dont care if a game cost $5,000 or $16,000.00 - The company that makes those games need to take care of the customers.

I hope this gets better soon, but till then - I AM OUT on WWCF CE #12 - I have sent my notice to Joe, but I am not asking for refund - I bought Mafia from Joe a couple months ago and might get something else and if not, I am hoping that this gets resolved and i will used it then towards a game.

Thanks to all and we do need to stand together.

#2190 79 days ago

I'm out as well. No new JJP pins for me until all of this gets straightened out.

#2191 79 days ago

Sad that we are now seeing this on the new Stern JP pins. I am out until the industry figures out the new manufacturing process. Was looking for 2 more pins for the collection but I am willing to ride it out to not go through what I did I on POTC. Still love the game, but this is unacceptable. It’s like a car where the paint peels. Yes it is cosmetic. But no, it isn’t ok.

#2192 79 days ago
Quoted from Amused_to_Death:

LOL. Yup. I'm sure he relishes it. So, if someone really does dislike the guy, it would be best to not say anything at all. Nothing is worse than being ignored.

When I first listened to him a few months ago, I actually felt bad for the guy because by pure coincidence on the first episode I tuned in on, he was upset how people here were being mean to him. Then after I listed more I realized that was every fucking episode. Got old quick. Now slap save is what I listen to, and it is a breath of fresh air.

But back to the subject at hand: I was in awe of JJP games up untill the pirates debacle. Which is a shame as I want that game. But now with pirates and Wonka, there are only three JJP games I'd collect. It sucks they are just letting this slide. I am getting the impression they cannot afford to fix it at this point.

#2193 79 days ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

I AM OUT ON MY WILLY WONKA CE #12
For those of you that are wanting the #12 - I guess it will be available. I am taking a stance on this issue with the chipping playfields that or showing up on the POTC and now Willy Wonka (there might even be other as well). I have not had a chance to see the CE playfield and it might be amazing and all - But even if it is -- I am still out on my preorder.

Nice stand, Richie. I'm not purchasing *anything* newish (from ANY company) for as long as it takes for the problems to be admitted to, addressed properly and both the: 1. original problem and 2. solution for past problems and future PF manufacturing ... are clearly documented.

I agree that Joe at PinballStar is awesome and provides excellent customer service. A great dude. I ran into him at Pinburgh this year as a *player*, which I thought was supremely cool. This is not on him -- or any other vendor. They are not responsible for the product. Vendors have reasonable cause to assume they are selling a product that is not defective.

This is a problem at the manufacturing level. Whatever the cause for the PF problems, it is the job of individual pinball manufacturing companies (JJP, Stern, etc) to accept responsibility and (hopefully) offer solutions. It is their liability. These same companies can solve with the PF manufacturer(s) in any way they see fit (that is not any of our business and it isn't our concern (as customers) to question the competency of various PF manufacturers because that is not our level of concern).

The buck stops at the pinball manufacturing company level and it is their obligation to address it.

#2194 79 days ago

Meanwhile... I sure am enjoying the hell outta my JJP POTC SE! What a terrific pinball experience. The full range of emotion, from frustration to elation, is tremendous.

1900+ home use games and it's rolling like a champ!
Absolutely no regrets. And, if a teensy little chip came up on the PF, I'd feel the same.

Carpe Diem!

#2195 79 days ago
Quoted from VillaThrills:

Sad that we are now seeing this on the new Stern JP pins. I am out until the industry figures out the new manufacturing process. Was looking for 2 more pins for the collection but I am willing to ride it out to not go through what I did I on POTC. Still love the game, but this is unacceptable. It’s like a car where the paint peels. Yes it is cosmetic. But no, it isn’t ok.

At least stern is acknowledging the issue and is replacing at least one playfield already.

#2196 79 days ago
Quoted from Quint_of_Dust:

Meanwhile... I sure am enjoying the hell outta my JJP POTC SE! What a terrific pinball experience. The full range of emotion, from frustration to elation, is tremendous.
1900+ home use games and it's rolling like a champ!
Absolutely no regrets. And, if a teensy little chip came up on the PF, I'd feel the same.
Carpe Diem!

It’s great to be you, lol.

#2197 79 days ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

I AM OUT on WWCF CE #12

Good for you! I'm a firm believer in "power in numbers", I wish all the resellers would nut up and tell JJP no more orders until this issue has been resolved.
Let's face it, not many of us have the skills to do a playfield swap and expecting us to pay for a replacement when it was just a subpar factory installed product is ludicrous.

Quoted from harryhoudini:

Well, crazy but the new playfield seems solid. Can't make a nail mark in it.

Uneven clear coat is not uncommon when it comes to this manufacturer. I suggest installing 2 star posts in 2 very different areas and monitor it over a day or two. Trust me, if the clear starts to pool around the post, remove the post and it'll level itself back out. But the sad part is you'll likely see the artwork coming up with it (obviously you got a bunk playfield). If it doesn't pool the next thing to check/expect is when removing the posts you'll see a fairly obvious and fairly deep indent (once again showing the use of soft clear coat. OR - you just might be one of those scarce lucky souls who got a good playfield! (rooting for the latter).
Ya know, the chances are the factory installation never experienced pooling was probably pretty good. I'll venture a guess that the torque on the playfield causes the ink to "eventually" pull up and the clear coat loses it's anchor and that's when the pooling occurs. The clear coat has to go some where. Path of least resistance if you will.

#2198 79 days ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

Good for you! I'm a firm believer in "power in numbers", I wish all the resellers would nut up and tell JJP no more orders until this issue has been resolved.
Let's face it, not many of us have the skills to do a playfield swap and expecting us to pay for a replacement when it was just a subpar factory installed product is ludicrous.

Uneven clear coat is not uncommon when it comes to this manufacturer. I suggest installing 2 star posts in 2 very different areas and monitor it over a day or two. Trust me, if the clear starts to pool around the post, remove the post and it'll level itself back out. But the sad part is you'll likely see the artwork coming up with it (obviously you got a bunk playfield). If it doesn't pool the next thing to check/expect is when removing the posts you'll see a fairly obvious and fairly deep indent (once again showing the use of soft clear coat. OR - you just might be one of those scarce lucky souls who got a good playfield! (rooting for the latter).
Ya know, the chances are the factory installation never experienced pooling was probably pretty good. I'll venture a guess that the torque on the playfield causes the ink to "eventually" pull up and the clear coat loses it's anchor and that's when the pooling occurs. The clear coat has to go some where. Path of least resistance if you will.

Are there any places under the apron that could legitimately be tested? I wouldn’t do it out in the open, on actual art, even if not seen during play. Personally.

#2199 79 days ago

I'm also out on any new pin. I'm dealing with my POTC chipping and wont buy another new machine until the industry convinces me thing are better.

#2200 79 days ago

And I’m also out on any NIB (not just JJP) until causes are clearly identified and solutions in place.

Edit: is there a universal thread (not manufacturer specific) about this topic? Perhaps with a poll that would allow people to send a message to all the manufacturers that this needs to change.

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