Ann Arbor, MI
Quoted from PinMonk:Pretty sure that's Joe Balcer's SEGA/Data East days bleeding into Houdini.
Yup.
(Topic ID: 242867)
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Quoted from 3pinballs:I think you'll be fine just put washers underneath looks fine
I wouldn't that's a problem. Soft clear like this is just asking for a problem … much less at 12.5k - New out of box.
Seriously; I'd box it back up and call the distributor to have them pick it up for a full refund.
This is the only way to really handle this situation; JJP ships this crap because "we" accept it.
Quoted from Zitt:I wouldn't that's a problem. Soft clear like this is just asking for a problem … much less at 12.5k - New out of box.
Seriously; I'd box it back up and call the distributor to have them pick it up for a full refund.
This is the only way to really handle this situation; JJP ships this crap because "we" accept it.
Your not wrong....pretty disappointed to hear how JJP is handling these issues....I'm actually fine with paying top dollar for their machines, but that comes with expectations of a quality product that they stand behind. I've owned all their machines, but won't buy another NIB game from JJP because I suspect this is going to continue. I'll look for one that comes up for sale on the secondary market.
On man cosmokramer did u just get a CE? And that’s exactly how my friends brand new SE looked oh and there was a massive chip under the dauntless where the post is... someone probably cracked the clear then tried to fix it, made it worse,, finally just said sweet it let’s just ship it.... what a joke I seriously have lost all respect for JJP as a company they don’t practice what they preach and in my book that’s basically lying
Hey guys, sorry, didnt mean to be misleading...that game is not mine but we were getting it set up on location today and I noticed the clear right out of the box...was just a shame to see that they dont even look close at the CEs much less the SEs
As much as I want a Wonka, Im in a holding pattern until this gets sorted out
Quoted from cosmokramer:Hey guys, sorry, didnt mean to be misleading...that game is not mine but we were getting it set up on location today and I noticed the clear right out of the box...was just a shame to see that they dont even look close at the CEs much less the SEs
As much as I want a Wonka, Im in a holding pattern until this gets sorted out
Near as I can figure, that means sitting out of pinball entirely until this gets sorted out. I’d rather play now and deal with the issues later.
Quoted from zr11990:It’s funny how Jack nor his staff have the balls to come on this thread and confirm or deny the what is being said here. He would rather hide like a bitch and just sell people 12K pins that won’t stay together a year.
To be fair, I haven't seen Gary Stern come on here and do that for the countless issues Stern has told buyers to live with over the years.
GoT "As designed" Martell hardware non-fix
Substantial visible woodgrain on playfields from poor or cheap prep work is now "normal"
Clear bunching I've seen firsthand on Iron Maiden and Beatles playfields
etc
But he's happy to send his shills in to guide the herd.
There is ZERO upside to coming on Pinside to acknowledge ANY problem. Handle them case by case one-on-one or through distributors and try to keep people happy. Most of the pinball world is not on Pinside, and overall JJP and Stern do a decent support job that is roughly equivalent in my experience over dozens of NIB machines.
Does this clear bunching issue suck? Yes. Has it gone on far too long? Yes. Is the JJP solution for PotC owners less than optimal? Yes. Is JJP the only manufacturer with this issue on playfields? No. If pinball manufacture were easy everyone would be doing it successfully.
I'm out on Wonka for this problem for sure. I'll pick one up in a future special edition if/when it's generally considered "Fixed" or buy a game 2nd hand. Just no way I trust them.
I wouldn't expect JJP to come in here at all. None of the manufacturers - except maybe one.
Quoted from Zitt:I think he even has a policy which prevents people from "copying" announcements made in his forums outside his forums. Just shady.
I've never seen mention of that policy nor been negatively contacted by Jack or JJP employees after I reposted stuff here from there. Don't think that's actually a thing.
JJP doesn't need to be on here. They could just be up front, communicate with their customers using traditional forms of customer engagement and not ignore or try to hide. Maybe they are just incompetent, I shouldn't judge.
I swear to DOG if JJP had sent out an email when they first found out about the post issue (when they started adding washers to their games on the production line) and even just told people what to buy and install, most of this could have been avoided. If they EVER contacted their customers and admitted to an issue, provided a resolution, heck just said "hi" that would be a miracle. All it takes is being up front about issues, admitting and empathising and trying to do what is right they would have won over an audience. Instead the just alienated a bunch of people. The good PR from this thing could have been amazing, people would be talking them up. I know some still do, but sure as shiz there are a ton of people now across pinside not happy with them.
Email is pretty much free. They must have a few great databases of customers, potential customers, parts orders, email list signups, etc. All it takes are some imports to MailChimp and maybe a few bucks and boom, you're in business. Heck, they use Netsuite, I am guessing it has something built in or integrates with tons of crap. I opt-out of a ton of emails, all the time... but I would definitely be happy to see a JJP email every once in a while letting me know of developments, code, new products, accessories, new items on the website, what's going on at the company, inside tips and information, reviews, videos, etc.
I can only imagine that they know better than me, understand their audience and their business model better and know where their profit/loss comes from and it surely can't be us.
Quoted from harryhoudini:JJP doesn't need to be on here. They could just be up front, communicate with their customers using traditional forms of customer engagement and not ignore or try to hide. Maybe they are just incompetent, I shouldn't judge.
I swear to DOG if JJP had sent out an email when they first found out about the post issue (when they started adding washers to their games on the production line) and even just told people what to buy and install, most of this could have been avoided. If they EVER contacted their customers and admitted to an issue, provided a resolution, heck just said "hi" that would be a miracle. All it takes is being up front about issues, admitting and empathising and trying to do what is right they would have won over an audience. Instead the just alienated a bunch of people. The good PR from this thing could have been amazing, people would be talking them up. I know some still do, but sure as shiz there are a ton of people now across pinside not happy with them.
Email is pretty much free. They must have a few great databases of customers, potential customers, parts orders, email list signups, etc. All it takes are some imports to MailChimp and maybe a few bucks and boom, you're in business. Heck, they use Netsuite, I am guessing it has something built in or integrates with tons of crap. I opt-out of a ton of emails, all the time... but I would definitely be happy to see a JJP email every once in a while letting me know of developments, code, new products, accessories, new items on the website, what's going on at the company, inside tips and information, reviews, videos, etc.
I can only imagine that they know better than me, understand their audience and their business model better and know where their profit/loss comes from and it surely can't be us.
Replace JJP with Stern and the same would be true. Stern doesn't even tell customers when they put up important service bulletins for game-killing problems! You have to keep an eye out for new service bulletins yourself. You're acting like this is a JJP best-practices issue, when it's pretty much an industry-wide fail.
Quoted from cosmokramer:12.5k doesnt get you any better quality control...
This game was just unboxed in this condition...[quoted image][quoted image]
As hard as this might be, I suggest you call the vendor and demand a replacement or a severely reduced price. People need to stop accepting this piss poor quality and trying to somehow pass it off as "normal" let alone acceptable. Hint... it's neither. Best of luck to you!
Quoted from PinMonk:I've never seen mention of that policy nor been negatively contacted by Jack or JJP employees after I reposted stuff here from there. Don't think that's actually a thing.
You might be right.
I know one of the non-Stern vendors did this. Maybe PPS?
Regardless; I edit my comment and removed the statement because I could just be remembering incorrectly.
Quoted from Zitt:You might be right.
I know one of the non-Stern vendors did this. Maybe PPS?
Regardless; I edit my comment and removed the statement because I could just be remembering incorrectly.
Yeah, I think you're confusing it with one of the others - PPS or CGC? I can't remember which either, but one of them did that. It was not JJP.
Quoted from PinMonk:Replace JJP with Stern and the same would be true. Stern doesn't even tell customers when they put up important service bulletins for game-killing problems, even. You're acting like this is a JJP best-practices issue, when it's pretty much an industry-wide fail.
So?
If Stern jumped off a bridge would JJP?
By not holding them responsible we are training then to treat us poorly. Change starts somewhere. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If everyone is complacent with their response why would they change?
I'm acting as if JJP isn't treating it's customers right. If I buy a Stern game and have similar issues with them, I'll take up that fight, then. Others have signed petitions against Stern, so it's not like they are being ignored. JJP doesn't get some special pass because they only need to be held to some imaginary industry norm.
Quoted from harryhoudini:So?
If Stern jumped off a bridge would JJP?
By not holding them responsible we are training then to treat us poorly. Change starts somewhere. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If everyone is complacent with their response why would they change?
I'm acting as if JJP isn't treating it's customers right. If I buy a Stern game and have similar issues with them, I'll take up that fight, then. Others have signed petitions against Stern, so it's not like they are being ignored. JJP doesn't get some special pass because they only need to be held to some imaginary industry norm.
I get the indignation, but I couldn't help but hear Greg Beherndt...
Quoted from Zitt:I wouldn't that's a problem. Soft clear like this is just asking for a problem … much less at 12.5k - New out of box.
Seriously; I'd box it back up and call the distributor to have them pick it up for a full refund.
This is the only way to really handle this situation; JJP ships this crap because "we" accept it.
Valid point
Quoted from Soulrider911:On man cosmokramer did u just get a CE? And that’s exactly how my friends brand new SE looked oh and there was a massive chip under the dauntless where the post is... someone probably cracked the clear then tried to fix it, made it worse,, finally just said sweet it let’s just ship it.... what a joke I seriously have lost all respect for JJP as a company they don’t practice what they preach and in my book that’s basically lying
C'mon, they make produce "The Best-built, Highest Quality Pinball Machines".
Quoted from MrBally:C'mon, they make produce "The Best-built, Highest Quality Pinball Machines".
I agree they make really nice games, but when there is a big issue like a play field or cabinet problem they sprint in the other direction. Clearly their quality control has gotten worse.
Ironically, with a large amount of sarcasm, JJP is causing me to lose money now. I've had orders cancelled because people aren't going to keep their games or because they are waiting on JJP to make a more befitting offer for playfields. Reminds me, I am going to call Frank right now.
Quoted from harryhoudini:Ironically, with a large amount of sarcasm, JJP is causing me to lose money now. I've had orders cancelled because people aren't going to keep their games or because they are waiting on JJP to make a more befitting offer for playfields. Reminds me, I am going to call Frank right now.
good luck with that 
Quoted from harryhoudini:Ironically, with a large amount of sarcasm, JJP is causing me to lose money now. I've had orders cancelled because people aren't going to keep their games or because they are waiting on JJP to make a more befitting offer for playfields. Reminds me, I am going to call Frank right now.
I want to know how this works out
Me too, keep us posted!
Based on last conversation I had with Frank it seems this isn’t going anywhere without talking directly with Jack.
Quoted from Psw757:Me too, keep us posted!
Based on last conversation I had with Frank it seems this isn’t going anywhere without talking directly with Jack.
Same here, and even further along down the line, it feels like nothing will progress.
Quoted from harryhoudini:JJP is causing me to lose money now. I've had orders cancelled because people aren't going to keep their games
How is it you lose money when somebody cancels?
Do you then have to buy their game and sell it for less than you paid?
Quoted from o-din:How is it you lose money when somebody cancels?
Do you then have to buy their game and sell it for less than you paid?
NM. Op answered. nothing to see here.
Quoted from o-din:How is it you lose money when somebody cancels?
Do you then have to buy their game and sell it for less than you paid?
Heh, just mods I'm making for POTC. People have ordered them and we've taken their money, bought supplies to make the mods, and they have cancelled because they aren't sure they are keeping the game. I am not really worried, we'll just keep stock on hand for people who want stuff in the future, but man I could only empathise with the dealers in that regard.
Quoted from Psw757:Me too, keep us posted!
Based on last conversation I had with Frank it seems this isn’t going anywhere without talking directly with Jack.
My bet is Jack can't make any decisions and that the entire company is in the hands of the investors.
Quoted from harryhoudini:Heh, just mods I'm making for POTC. People have ordered them and we've taken their money, bought supplies to make the mods, and they have cancelled because they aren't sure they are keeping the game. I am not really worried, we'll just keep stock on hand for people who want stuff in the future, but man I could only empathise with the dealers in that regard.
Gotcha!
It's like when somebody orders a cheeseburger and decides they are not hungry after all, if it is already made or in the process, you refund the money and have either the choice of throwing it away, or putting it on ice for a later customer. Good business.
Quoted from PtownPin:My bet is Jack can't make any decisions and that the entire company is in the hands of the investors.
Looking at who the investors are, their backgrounds and what they do now, I can't imagine they have a large hand in daily operations. One guy is CEO for eHealth, you think he is spending time running a pinball company? Who knows, I don't ... but if we can all conjure up opinions, that's mine. I think Jack needs to make profits for his investors, giving away playfields doesn't do that, he has bottom lines to meet and POTC seemed to already be an expensive game to make. Profits are already spent on gearing up for other games, giving playfields would make a bigger dent in the small amount of profit (conjecture) and not be pleasing for the people who gave him money. Corporations are in one business, to make money for their investors. However the best way to do that is, by giving whatever level of customer service they need to, they try to do so they can maximize profits. If the loss of new sales is less than the cost of new playfields then it's worth it. Anyhow, that's some conjecture. It's either that or Jack just doesn't give many schitz or farks about the issues people and is doing whatever he thinks is easiest and cheapest to placate them.
Quoted from harryhoudini:Looking at who the investors are, their backgrounds and what they do now, I can't imagine they have a large hand in daily operations. One guy is CEO for eHealth, you think he is spending time running a pinball company? Who knows, I don't ... but if we can all conjure up opinions, that's mine. I think Jack needs to make profits for his investors, giving away playfields doesn't do that, he has bottom lines to meet and POTC seemed to already be an expensive game to make. Profits are already spent on gearing up for other games, giving playfields would make a bigger dent in the small amount of profit (conjecture) and not be pleasing for the people who gave him money. Corporations are in one business, to make money for their investors. However the best way to do that is, by giving whatever level of customer service they need to, they try to do so they can maximize profits. If the loss of new sales is less than the cost of new playfields then it's worth it. Anyhow, that's some conjecture. It's either that or Jack just doesn't give many schitz or farks about the issues people and is doing whatever he thinks is easiest and cheapest to placate them.
I hear ya, but running day to day operations doesn't necessarily mean he's making any big financial decisions. As you stated above my guess is he has line item budgets, and financial goals that I'm sure someone is holding his feet to the fire. I suspect Jack doesn't really care (who knows maybe he does, but can't afford to do anything about it) about these play field issues, and if that costs him a few sales than so be it....I do believe its a real slippery slope for JJP
I love my POTC and actually my playfield is pretty good, but I won't buy another NIB from JJP (or Stern for that matter) until the playfield issues are resolved. Since not all playfields are bad, better to just wait and buy a nice HUO pin. That way you can make sure the playfield is good before making the purchase and also you're not rewarding the original manufacturer for poor quality product. jmo
JJP cant dispute this issue is happening but they can turn a blind eye to it (and basically they have as the post "fix" is hardly that). You have a 1 year warranty, the clock has pretty much run out right?
Since Wonka is also showing clear coat pooling issues, one would assume this will sour the masses from buying anymore new product knowing the chances of getting a crap Mirco playfield is almost inevitable. I certainly fall in that category.
I do want to say, the helpdesk portion of JJP is pretty darned awesome. In fact, it's clearly the best part of JJP!
No one has a year warranty related to this. Read their warranty.
IF you register your game within 5 days of getting it and are the original owner you have a 30 day warranty. The electronics have a 6-12 month warranty depending on if your game was routed or not. Only on the electronics.
---------
Side note, Frank responded and said my playfield will ship shortly. So I'm not sure what happened with the last situation (where I was sent a tracking number and receipt) but it seems like it is now being shipped (again).
Quoted from o-din:It's like when somebody orders a cheeseburger
michael douglas demonstrates how to deal with companies that dont subscribe to the age old adage that 'the customer is always right'.
Welp, looks like elvis left the building:
In Transit 08/14/2019 8:33 P.M. Lakewood, NJ, United States
Past Event Shipped 08/14/2019 7:44 P.M. Lakewood, NJ, United States
Past Event Label Created 08/14/2019 3:57 P.M. United States
Quoted from harryhoudini:Welp, looks like elvis left the building:
In Transit 08/14/2019 8:33 P.M. Lakewood, NJ, United States
Past Event Shipped 08/14/2019 7:44 P.M. Lakewood, NJ, United States
Past Event Label Created 08/14/2019 3:57 P.M. United States
With all due respect my good man, I fear you just pissed money down your leg. What did you gain by buying a playfield we've already determined to be defective..... plagued with soft clear and almost assuredly ink adherance issues? Seriously why?
Quoted from CLEllison:With all due respect my good man, I fear you just pissed money down your leg. What did you gain by buying a playfield we've already determined to be defective..... plagued with soft clear and almost assuredly ink adherance issues? Seriously why?
So when the one I have falls apart I have something to put in? Who knows, maybe they run out, I don't really see them changing the quality so sort of over a barrel aren't we? Either you take their shitty offer or what? I'm giving the letter some time to soak in before I look at anything else.
Quoted from harryhoudini:So when the one I have falls apart I have something to put in? Who knows, maybe they run out, I don't really see them changing the quality so sort of over a barrel aren't we? Either you take their shitty offer or what? I'm giving the letter some time to soak in before I look at anything else.
It’s a terrible feeling to have after spending so much money.
This hobby can be very frustrating at times.
Quoted from harryhoudini:So when the one I have falls apart I have something to put in?
So it falls apart? 
Quoted from harryhoudini:? Either you take their shitty offer or what?
Nothing. Play the game and enjoy it and sell it at a loss later; just like every other pinball machine.
Quoted from TheLaw:So it falls apart?
Nothing. Play the game and enjoy it and sell it at a loss later; just like every other pinball machine.
Well, I have a TOTAN CPR playfield sitting in a box. I have all 3 WOZ playfields sitting in a box. Now I'll have a POTC sitting in a box. I was wondering why some people ordered a 2nd playfield when they bought the game, I should have known based on WOZ and DI. I refurbished a DE JP playfield and installed it. I rebuilt my Cyclone with a CPR playfield. I am refurbishing my TOM playfield with decals and clear. So yeah... I like nice playfields? Another reason POTC playfield wear is heartbreaking.
Quoted from harryhoudini:Well, I have a TOTAN CPR playfield sitting in a box. I have all 3 WOZ playfields sitting in a box. Now I'll have a POTC sitting in a box. I was wondering why some people ordered a 2nd playfield when they bought the game, I should have known based on WOZ and DI. I refurbished a DE JP playfield and installed it. I rebuilt my Cyclone with a CPR playfield. I am refurbishing my TOM playfield with decals and clear. So yeah... I like nice playfields? Another reason POTC playfield wear is heartbreaking.
Do you lay them flat for storage? I've been wondering this....
Any special care instructions, other than low humidity I'd assume?
Trollhättan
Quoted from Dr-pin:I sure hope for the next meunier game, we will see mirco kicked to the curb, would be terrible to see Another potentially great game ruined.
I"m in if mirco is out.
CGC or CPR have had the least number of playfield issues, but do either of them have the capacity to handle what JJP would need for a monster Guns n Roses run? They both have their own usual business to run, and CGC is technically a competitor, but Mirco has had a LONG time to work out their issues, time to find someone else to stop the asterisk next to all JJP games due to playfield issues.
Quoted from wesman:Do you lay them flat for storage? I've been wondering this....
Any special care instructions, other than low humidity I'd assume?
They stay in the house near the pins, so ya flat in the house.
Sydney
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