(Topic ID: 242867)

PoTC - Who has playfield cracking & wear around sling posts?


By harryhoudini

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 2,976 posts
  • 217 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 18 days ago by Psw757
  • Topic is favorited by 63 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“What kind of issues are you seeing?”

  • I have visible dimples but no chipping 45 votes
    22%
  • I can see chipping but haven't done anything yet 67 votes
    33%
  • I can see chipping and installed mylar, washer and/or larger star post 30 votes
    15%
  • My playfield looks fine (but I haven't removed the star posts) 31 votes
    15%
  • I removed the star posts and my playfield looks fine 15 votes
    7%
  • My game had clear washers installed from the factory 15 votes
    7%

(Multiple choice - 203 votes by 191 Pinsiders)

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#2051 9 months ago

The words "We are contractually obligated" seemed to be a big fat lie the last time they were uttered by one of the parties here.....

#2052 9 months ago

That may be, I don't know. More information would have been nice, I gave it a shot. One thing that was helpful to learn is that he won't produce more playfields without JJP ordering them. So the idea that more will be available down the line is unlikely unless JJP keeps getting them.

#2053 9 months ago
Quoted from dts:

That may be, I don't know. More information would have been nice, I gave it a shot. One thing that was helpful to learn is that he won't produce more playfields without JJP ordering them. So the idea that more will be available down the line is unlikely unless JJP keeps getting them.

Or switches to someone else...?

#2054 9 months ago
Quoted from dts:

My main concern right now is this: if you get a replacement playfield for $550, what evidence is there that the ink has been applied any differently than the first batch of playfields?

Because obviously people who complain are willing to buy one? LOL
Seriously this thread is insane. We've already proven the replacement play field is no better than the original and people still buy one. Not sure what part of "softer clear coat being used" and "ink adherance problem" isn't being translated correctly?. Time isn't going to fix the playfield. It's a faulty product that other play fields from the same manufacturer are plagued with as well. You're a bunch of ding dongs I tell ya.
1.) Sell your game
2.) Enjoy your game
There's your options. Its blatantly clear that JJP isn't able to help you. They have no better/improved product to provide you and likely why they have remained quiet. Common sense is a bitch. Your playfield will continue to deteriorate so buy cliffys and post protectors. It's literally your only option if you keep it.

#2055 9 months ago

Hopefully they do switch manufacturers. Does Stern also use Mirco? Odd that most the manufacturers have this same defect.

#2056 9 months ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

Because obviously people who complain are willing to buy one? LOL
Seriously this thread is insane. We've already proven the replacement play field is no better than the original and people still buy one. Not sure what part of "softer clear coat being used" and "ink adherance problem" isn't being translated correctly?. Time isn't going to fix the playfield. It's a faulty product that other play fields from the same manufacturer are plagued with as well. You're a bunch of ding dongs I tell ya.
1.) Sell your game
2.) Enjoy your game
There's your options. Its blatantly clear that JJP isn't able to help you. They have no better/improved product to provide you and likely why they have remained quiet. Common sense is a bitch. Your playfield will continue to deteriorate so buy cliffys and post protectors. It's literally your only option if you keep it.

I'm with you on number 2.

Quoted from wesman:

Or switches to someone else...?

CGC is awesome, but I doubt silkscreen would work for photorealism.

#2057 9 months ago

Makes sense. But there is also a thread dedicated to Mirco playfield quality which he hasn't commented on.

Re: the letter, it was returned today with "Return to sender. Not deliverable as addressed. Unable to forward" ... I have no idea why. I sent it at the post office so they saw the address when they printed postage for it. I confirmed the address. I am going to take it again to the post office and find out why and resend it.

#2058 9 months ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

Common sense is a bitch. Your playfield will continue to deteriorate so buy cliffys and post protectors. It's literally your only option if you keep it.

Cliffies and post protectors will not solve the problem, either. The jjPotC we have has a big chip (to the wood, no hint of ink left on the wood) where the forks come up. Basically, anywhere there's contact, the playfield ink and clear can separate down to the wood.

#2059 9 months ago

I don't have any chipping that I see, however my display has these red streaks that are constantly running through it now. I am not sure if anyone else has experienced this and has an idea how to fix? Any help would be appreciated.

potc red screen (resized).jpg
#2060 9 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

Cliffies and post protectors will not solve the problem, either. The jjPotC we have has a big chip (to the wood, no hint of ink left on the wood) where the forks come up. Basically, anywhere there's contact, the playfield ink and clear can separate down to the wood.

My strategy at this point will be to put on a playfield protector, trace the original template over to more PETG/Vivak, and replace it periodically. Cheap and easy. Mine looks good, but with the usual dimples forming, so after they flatten out.

#2061 9 months ago
Quoted from WoodpilePin:

I don't have any chipping that I see, however my display has these red streaks that are constantly running through it now. I am not sure if anyone else has experienced this and has an idea how to fix? Any help would be appreciated.[quoted image]

Looks like interference. Is the monitor plug on both ends securely connected?

#2062 9 months ago
Quoted from dts:

CGC is awesome, but I doubt silkscreen would work for photorealism.

A full color silkscreen print is produced using a four color CMYK process. Basically the same end result as using an inkjet printer, but laying the colors down one at a time, from light to dark.

#2063 9 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

Cliffies and post protectors will not solve the problem, either. The jjPotC we have has a big chip (to the wood, no hint of ink left on the wood) where the forks come up. Basically, anywhere there's contact, the playfield ink and clear can separate down to the wood.

I have a tiny chip to the left of the left fork. Wondering if I should bend the fork a little so it does not rub. Would a cliffy work here?

#2064 9 months ago
Quoted from gumnut01:

I have a tiny chip to the left of the left fork. Wondering if I should bend the fork a little so it does not rub. Would a cliffy work here?

Can you take a photo of it? I keep hearing people mention this, and have no idea of the games location.

That really sucks, by the way. You've got a few chips at this point, yes?

#2065 9 months ago

If you can’t see it while playing...isn’t it better to not know about it at all?

#2066 9 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

If you can’t see it while playing...isn’t it better to not know about it at all?

If I can protect ahead of time, I'd rather do that than pay an extra $600.

This reminds me to go to the doctor. Also many hazards undetectable to me by my naked eye!

#2067 9 months ago
Quoted from wesman:

This reminds me to go to the doctor. Also many hazards undetectable to me by my naked eye!

It really depends on whether it's a situation that's getting worse (in pinball I mean).
Plenty of shit can be going wrong on a pinball machine and frankly 90% of it you'd never see until you're fucked.

#2068 9 months ago
Quoted from gumnut01:

I have a tiny chip to the left of the left fork. Wondering if I should bend the fork a little so it does not rub. Would a cliffy work here?

Yes, you can bend the forks, I just did. Mine was barely touching the edge, not a problem, but I could see how that might be. Perhaps a little mylar over that area as well.

#2069 9 months ago

Seems like ball just rolling over holes and slots causing chipping. You all sure the forks are the culprit and not the ball transversing the holes?

#2070 9 months ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Seems like ball just rolling over holes and slots causing chipping. You all sure the forks are the culprit and not the ball transversing the holes?

Seems like a cliffy is needed? Wonder if the rollover generic ones fit there.

Btw, the letter could not be sent today. USPS says that the address is not a valid address for delivery. I copied and pasted it off the JJP website. I checked Google maps and it surely exists (https://www.google.com/search?q=1645+oak+street+lakewood+nj+08701&oq=1645+Oak+St&aqs=chrome.0.0j69i57j0l4.3875j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 and the physical building is there https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0597906,-74.188795,3a,60y,10.88h,87.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMVCVwwIvbDlXkM0G-PJBbQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) so I am not sure what the issue is. I guess I can just send it UPS or something. First time I've ever had this issue.

Also, no reply from JJP on my playfield. I can only assume at this point they decided not to sell me one. I didn't have time to call during EST but I'm going to make a point of it tomorrow. If not I'll call Jack on his cell phone.

#2071 9 months ago
Quoted from gumnut01:

I have a tiny chip to the left of the left fork. Wondering if I should bend the fork a little so it does not rub. Would a cliffy work here?

I just made a custom mylar cutout and put it on right after that happened. Been fine since. I think the reason it happened initially is the forks were tweaked out of the box and it rubbed as it came up.

If people are interested, I can put it in the pinmonk store.

#2072 9 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

If you can’t see it while playing...isn’t it better to not know about it at all?

My feeling was in such a high-traffic area, it's better to know and arrest it from getting worse with some mylar.

#2073 9 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Seems like a cliffy is needed? Wonder if the rollover generic ones fit there.
Btw, the letter could not be sent today. USPS says that the address is not a valid address for delivery. I copied and pasted it off the JJP website. I checked Google maps and it surely exists (https://www.google.com/search?q=1645+oak+street+lakewood+nj+08701&oq=1645+Oak+St&aqs=chrome.0.0j69i57j0l4.3875j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 and the physical building is there https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0597906,-74.188795,3a,60y,10.88h,87.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMVCVwwIvbDlXkM0G-PJBbQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) so I am not sure what the issue is. I guess I can just send it UPS or something. First time I've ever had this issue.
Also, no reply from JJP on my playfield. I can only assume at this point they decided not to sell me one. I didn't have time to call during EST but I'm going to make a point of it tomorrow. If not I'll call Jack on his cell phone.

USPS address database is being hacked or infiltrated or SOMETHING. I've had THREE addresses that existed (one was a HOTEL) that the database insisted were wrong and would not let me fix correctly. I filed a complaint, got a case number for their database team to call and no one ever did. I really believe it's being hacked, or maybe even just corrupted. NEVER had these issues, and all of a sudden there's FOUR (counting yours) in a month from all over the country? Something's up.

#2074 9 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

My feeling was in such a high-traffic area, it's better to know and arrest it from getting worse with some mylar.

Good thinking. Will do the same when I put Harry’s mod in. I really recommend the star map as well. Mine had heaps of dimples.

#2075 9 months ago
Quoted from gumnut01:

Good thinking. Will do the same when I put Harry’s mod in. I really recommend the star map as well. Mine had heaps of dimples.

That's probably better than bending it, as it is tapered and will brush either on the bottom or the top of the playfield depending on the position. Gentle touch on the top is fine by me, so I'll just have it close to factory and put mylar in.

#2076 9 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

My feeling was in such a high-traffic area, it's better to know and arrest it from getting worse with some mylar.

So these are the forks in the chest, yes?

#2077 9 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

USPS address database is being hacked or infiltrated or SOMETHING. I've had THREE addresses that existed (one was a HOTEL) that the database insisted were wrong and would not let me fix correctly. I filed a complaint, got a case number for their database team to call and no one ever did. I really believe it's being hacked, or maybe even just corrupted. NEVER had these issues, and all of a sudden there's FOUR (counting yours) in a month from all over the country? Something's up.

Wow, that's crazy. Was this using their address lookup API?

Apparently they told my wife, when she tried to send the letter again today, that they don't check the address until it gets to Seattle so that is why it was returned then.

I guess I'll just go UPS. What's odd also is that we've sent like maybe 100 USPS packages all over the world in the last few weeks and not one of those was returned. All the labels were created using an online shipping service which I am sure does validation on the addresses. None of the addresses were kicked back, no fixes, etc.

#2078 9 months ago
Quoted from dts:

Just spoke with Mirco. He said that he can't comment on the JJP playfields legally, that all questions go through them. Sounded like a contractual thing to me, since he can talk about the other playfields he has rights to reproduce. This is why he hasn't been able to comment here on the forums. So, no new information.

You mean he SAYS he cannot comment. I wouldn’t put much trust in anything Micro says right now...

#2079 9 months ago

I love my POTC thoroughly. Truly an amazing creation. I am definitely keeping it. This all is frustrating and stressful but I’m just going to take as good of care of it as I can, and hope it lasts. I’ve already put cliffys on, the star post repair kit and change the balls every 75 games since they get so beat up. That’s the best I can do. Has anyone tried Mylar around damage areas and seen if it prevents further damage? When I put the cliffys on the mystery hole and map hole a chip of playfield came up from both posts when removed. Scared the crap out of me. Would be terrified to remove a pop bumper and I want to move some posts to lessen ball drains but I’m afraid to move anything. Anyone try moving posts where there was already some clear coat bunching? If so how did that work?

#2080 9 months ago
Quoted from WoodpilePin:

I don't have any chipping that I see, however my display has these red streaks that are constantly running through it now. I am not sure if anyone else has experienced this and has an idea how to fix? Any help would be appreciated.[quoted image]

Could be the LCD, video cable, cable on the back of the LCD or the video on the motherboard. Isolate the monitor. If you have a laptop plug the monitor into that. If the issue remains swap cables. There should be an option in the monitor setup itself to restore defaults. Do it. If the issue still exists you likely need your LCD replaced.

#2081 9 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Wow, that's crazy. Was this using their address lookup API?
Apparently they told my wife, when she tried to send the letter again today, that they don't check the address until it gets to Seattle so that is why it was returned then.
I guess I'll just go UPS. What's odd also is that we've sent like maybe 100 USPS packages all over the world in the last few weeks and not one of those was returned. All the labels were created using an online shipping service which I am sure does validation on the addresses. None of the addresses were kicked back, no fixes, etc.

All of the databases have the problem (at least on the 3 addresses I had issues with recently). USPS and all third party. And if you force it by not taking the correction at the post office window, it WILL be corrected to the WRONG address and returned. It's very weird. I've sent out thousands of packages over the years and this is the first time this has happened - not once, but THREE times in a month. I can only blame corruption or hacking. It's too strange to be a coincidence, especially since you're having the same problem now.

#2082 9 months ago
Quoted from wesman:

So these are the forks in the chest, yes?

The forks below the chest that let the ball loop up and into the chest when they're raised.

#2083 9 months ago
Quoted from dts:

The samples he had were very impressive. My main concern right now is this: if you get a replacement playfield for $550, what evidence is there that the ink has been applied any differently than the first batch of playfields?

Had a similar interaction - Regarding Mirco. A friend of mine wanted a PF... I think it was an STNG PF with some kind of defect. I don't remember now but I think it was an adhesion issue with the inserts vs Clear. At the time; I suggested to my friend that he avoid that PF like the plague since it was already showing problems. My advise was based upon Insert problems that plagued Sterns in the year or so previous. Like GB, Batman, GOT.

The dude was proud of his work; and agreed that the insert thing was a defect when asked... but he also said he'd knock something miminal off the PF. Again I told my friend; it wasn't worth the pain because there was no real way to "clean" the PF and re-clear it.

I know others were talking about similar issues with PFs he did prior to TPF2018. Some highly sought after PF. The guys who preordered started complaining about insert adhesion issues that he basically dismissed as "couldn't be helped" or did't comment at all.

Knowing what we know now with this thread; it seems that he hasn't really addressed the problems. He's in money grab mode... knows that enough people don't care until it's too late. He doesn't really seem to be educated on what it takes to make a GOOD PF with clear coat and doesn't actually want to take the time to consult the experts.

Further; he's avoiding talking about this with anyone … again; because he doesn't want to ruin his revenue stream nor does he want to admit he's had this problem for years.

Sadly; if JJP is buying PFs from Mirco - it doesn't sound like anything is going to change until JJP holds his feet to the fire or finds a better vendor.

#2084 9 months ago
Quoted from Zitt:

Sadly; if JJP is buying PFs from Mirco - it doesn't sound like anything is going to change until JJP holds his feet to the fire or finds a better vendor.

I wish I could be a fly on the wall in those meetings... mainly to hear experts discuss the issues and if the required changes are possible with Mirco's machinery and process.

#2085 9 months ago
Quoted from dts:

CGC is awesome, but I doubt silkscreen would work for photorealism.

Have you looked at the art on games like TRON, LOTR, etc? The USA today newspaper? All of those were printed with color separations.

#2086 9 months ago
Quoted from Amused_to_Death:

A full color silkscreen print is produced using a four color CMYK process. Basically the same end result as using an inkjet printer, but laying the colors down one at a time, from light to dark.

Yes, Amused_To_Death cleared me up on that. I thought paint would be a problem in layers to achieve that detail, since inkjet uses small dots rather than layers of paint. I wish CGC were doing more of the playfields, they just look great with the old process.

#2087 9 months ago
Quoted from dts:

. I wish CGC were doing more of the playfields, they just look great with the old process.

I'm surprised they don't as it was a large part of their business in the past. It must be a cost issue.

#2088 9 months ago

Crazy. The last letter (to Tudor Investment Corp) came back as well, same situation. Could not be delivered as addressed yet the address definitely exists and is what is on their website. Guess I'll send that UPS as well.

I also got an email from Frank at JJP with just an invoice Part Sales Order attached. I think it is the same one as I already had, when I paid originally. So I'm not sure what that means, if he is suggesting I already have an order and it's all good? Or if there is a new order? Not sure. Replying.

#2089 9 months ago
Quoted from dts:

I thought paint would be a problem in layers to achieve that detail, since inkjet uses small dots rather than layers of paint.

The four color silkscreen process uses small halftone dots as well. You don't really end up with four complete layers of color on top of each other, if you did the entire print would be black, lol, but you do have some overlap where dots mix together and form new colors, which is why you apply the colors in order from light to dark.

If you have any serigraphs or lithographs hanging on your walls, they were produced using the same process, so rest assured that screen printing photorealistic imagery is easily done.

Do we know that Mirco's playfield problems have anything to do with the printing? I'd be more inclined to believe there is something wrong with the ceramic clearcoat process.

#2090 9 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I also got an email from Frank at JJP with just an invoice Part Sales Order attached. I think it is the same one as I already had, when I paid originally. So I'm not sure what that means, if he is suggesting I already have an order and it's all good? Or if there is a new order? Not sure. Replying.

He probably thinks your screen name means you can read minds as well.

#2091 9 months ago
Quoted from Amused_to_Death:

The four color silkscreen process uses small halftone dots as well. You don't really end up with four complete layers of color on top of each other, if you did the entire print would be black, lol, but you do have some overlap where dots mix together and form new colors, which is why you apply the colors in order from light to dark.
If you have any serigraphs or lithographs hanging on your walls, they were produced using the same process, so rest assured that screen printing photorealistic imagery is easily done.
Do we know that Mirco's playfield problems have anything to do with the printing? I'd be more inclined to believe there is something wrong with the ceramic clearcoat process.

If the ink comes off clean (leaving no trace on the wood) when the PF chips as it has on jjPotC, that suggests an ink adherence problem. Really similar to initial WoZ ECLEs where big chunks of the PF just chipped off clean in the pop bumper area.

#2092 9 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

If the ink comes off clean (leaving no trace on the wood) when the PF chips as it has on jjPotC, that suggests an ink adherence problem. Really similar to initial WoZ ECLEs where big chunks of the PF just chipped off clean in the pop bumper area.

So then it's both, right? Because we know for a fact that the clear is soft.

#2093 9 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

So then it's both, right? Because we know for a fact that the clear is soft.

I don't know about the clear, so I can't really say. Is it soft, or just not fully cured? Not clear. <---haha

The INK, however, is pretty clear. It's just not sticking to the wood, and that creates long-term problems.

-1
#2094 9 months ago

Soft / fully cured.. it's anything but right.

"If you're soft you're not cured. Viagra, now without a prescription."

#2095 9 months ago

Picked up a Houdini the other week in a trade and noticed they used rubber on the sling post? I believe it uses a micro playfield also? Wondering if they put these there bc there was a chipping issue early on? I dont like the way it plays with those rubber things on tho as it really takes away action. 20190810_113302 (resized).jpg

#2096 9 months ago

12.5k doesnt get you any better quality control...
This game was just unboxed in this condition...

20190810_112910 (resized).jpg20190810_113125 (resized).jpg
#2097 9 months ago

Did you box it backup and tell the distributor to come pick it up?

#2098 9 months ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Picked up a Houdini the other week in a trade and noticed they used rubber on the sling post? I believe it uses a micro playfield also? Wondering if they put these there bc there was a chipping issue early on? I dont like the way it plays with those rubber things on tho as it really takes away action. [quoted image]

Pretty sure that's Joe Balcer's SEGA/Data East days bleeding into Houdini. I hate those on Data East/SEGA pinball machines, and don't much like them on Houdini, either.

#2099 9 months ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

12.5k doesnt get you any better quality control...
This game was just unboxed in this condition...[quoted image][quoted image]

I think you'll be fine just put washers underneath looks fine

#2100 9 months ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

12.5k doesnt get you any better quality control...
This game was just unboxed in this condition...[quoted image][quoted image]

Is that yours Kramer? Notice we share a bad cats too.

If so welcome to the club it’s awesome.

Yep rubber washers. I thought the CEs had metal washers installed underneath the slings.

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