New GOTG...

20190803_225200 (resized).jpg

20190803_225207 (resized).jpg

20190803_225307 (resized).jpg

Clear bunching is the new planking/grain.

These are probably not bad enough to get a replacement from Stern. We had an Iron Maiden Pro that was similar and nothing happened with it in regards to a replacement.

Looks just like my Pirates.

No more new pins till this gets figured out.

For real. (Please don’t let them come out with anything I can’t live without for a while...)

It's really unfortunate for everyone! Have there been any issues with the remakes: MMr, MBr and AFMr? Those titles didn't have the release cycle issues built into them that Stern, JJP and others are facing.

The manufactures are for sure pushing to get the next cool thing released, maybe they simply need to let these boards sit for a longer period of time before screwing things onto them? Is JP2 being pushed out the door, to combat WW in the fight for the

limited money pool_available in pinball? I wouldn't be surprised to see JP2 playfield issues in the rush to market.

and that's exactly why they quit making them.

Personally have played a lot of CGC games and none of them have these issues that I have seen. I have played a number of AFM, MB, MMR everyone I have played is solid

What's the source of CGC, Stern, and JJP fields?

Is it time to cure or is it the manufacturer?

That's the big question, but if it was just the clear, it wouldn't have art chipping off clean like some of the JJP Mircos are. It's like there's an ink adhesion problem, too.

Unfortunate for sure. Just returned from the Wonka forum, and there are new pictures posted of aWonka LE machine that also has the same type of playfield issue. $9500.00 + taxes, shipping and having to deal with defect is unacceptable.

CGC does PF's in house.

The worst that seems to happen with CGC is ribbing (which I have on my AFMr) and cracking around the decals. I believe they do screen printing. I am fairly happy with my AFMr playfield.

I own an AFM LE. No PF issues whatsoever, but I would point out that the originals seem to shoot a bit more smooth. Nothing wrong with the remake and I recommend them highly. Just sayin'

I think the manufacturers, in general, could stand to spend more time making games "dialed in", fast, smooth and fun to play -- right out of the box. Just got back from Pinburgh and the difference between the well-tuned Papa machines and even NIB is astounding. The Papa machines are set up to screw you in various ways (no outlane rubbers, huge rubbers on shots that are otherwise too easy, etc), making you play better...but they are still smokin' smooth!!

Clear is denting where post were tight but i didnt c any chipping? As long as playfield dont start chipping apart is the clear bunching up around some post a huge deal? I have/had alot of pins that have slight clear bunching up but that was the extent .... now if it starts chipping apart that's another story.

On location today...
Wonka LE with displacing clear....
20190804_122046 (resized).jpg
Pirates with displacing clear and chipped up saucer...
20190804_115130 (resized).jpg20190804_115114 (resized).jpg
But what really got my attention is the playfield looked like it was sliced up with a razor blade....hard to photograph but you can see a bit of it in Jacks face...the dirt has settled in making it more noticable...

20190804_121953 (resized).jpg

20190804_121945 (resized).jpg

20190804_121926 (resized).jpg

If I had to guess, that slicing on the playfield is coming from chipped balls, which are probably caused by the t-nut in the map hole. I seriously doubt that operators are addressing that problem before it is put on route.

As bad as the clearcoat problems are, the t-nut issue is some respects is worse. If that is not addressed, no part pf the playfield is going to look good. It could also be caused by the bracket that extends past the metal guide in the back right. Either way, your balls are beat to hell quickly and they will unleash destruction on the playfield.

I’m point a clear finger at mirco, BUT it’s JJP’s Responsibility to resolve as they are using them as a supplier in their final product.

I plan to pick up a HUO LE maybe next year at some point. Can someone list everything I should be looking for when searching for a game? I haven't followed all of the POTC threads all the way through but there seems to be a laundry list of potential issues. This is the first I hear of this T-nut in the map hole thing...jeez.

CGC had issues with clear cracking (but the ink did not come up) on Medieval Madness playfields. I haven't seen the same problem on AfMr or MBr. Aside from getting the screen color layer COMPLETELY WRONG on some of the AfMr, they seem to have the least problems with their playfields.

Agree. The vertical ribbing does not bother me, but it was noticeable if I look for it. Great game. And playfield.

Bunching is the first step in this process. Chipping often follows.

That's absolutely awful.

Thank you for taking and posting photos. It's pretty essential to note these issues, so they can be corrected for present and future games.

I'm starting to finally really enjoy Wonka, but no way am I walking back into this fire with all of these continued and repeated issues.

Did you trim either of those on your game? I did the tnut, and before I start playing again, I'll trim that bracket in the back behind the Pearl, as well as put some more neoprene under the star posts under the Pearl ramp and in the Chapter Select area.

I saw a Pirates last night on location with chipping and cracking under the ramp. Shoulda took a photo...

I adhered a hard rubber piece to the wood above the t-nut after I inspected the pinballs after a dozen games and could see how they were already dented. I also checked to make sure they cleared the brace behind the metal guide, which they did, so no fix was necessary. The rubber piece protected things until I got the ship off, which I will do now that I received my Cliffy protectors. I checked the pinballs again a few days ago and they look fine. The rubber may make the map shot slightly harder, but I haven’t noticed and can make that shot without an issue. I may just leave it as is ... still debating.

I am going to have to look at the other posts you mentioned. How many of the are there ... so I can order parts?

If anyone can corroborate...

I think 2 and 2 for the slings in chapter select.

2 for the sling near the bumpers.

3 for the sling under the Pearl Ramp.

And then the standard 3 for both lower slings.

Thank you. I did a quick visual inspection and do not see any bunching of the clear on any of those posts. Perhaps I am lucky so far. I am debating what to do and will have to go back and find the recommended star posts and washers.

I sure appreciate everyone on this forum. I cannot imagine dealing with all of this on my own. I would not have even known where to expect problems without you all. Thank you everyone.

Here's double star posts people recommend. I used them for the lower slings, with the Lowe's neoprene washers.

https://www.pinballlife.com/plastic-translucent-double-star-posts-1-116-tall.html

Here are the washers.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hillman-2-Count-5-16-in-x-3-4-in-Neoprene-Standard-SAE-Fender-Washers/3012346

Friendly alternate perspective offered with the best of intentions:

What are you doing here? What's the plan? The desired outcome? The reality is you're the second owner of a machine that was initially routed - that's two major strikes. Because of that, legally, JJP doesn't owe you anything at all. In my experience, this isn't the way to get a satisfactory resolution to anything. It seems like you jumped from DEFCON 4 or 3 to DEFCON 1 and skipped all the in-between. Elevating to this level is a bad idea because there's nowhere left to go. I mean, I hope it works out for you, but I just have to give you a perspective from outside your bubble - you're way down a really dangerous path.

If I owned a pinball company I would hire someone just to read Pinside threads all day long. They read it the day you posted it here.

What is the suggested path of restitution here. It would seem you have some knowledge - based on the context of your post... Please share with us. Kinda get the feeling you may have missed some of the details in this topic.

This is what I've been saying all along. By going ballistic and making legal threats, the well is now poisoned and goodwill is out the window.
I've been pleading all along for people to be logical, rational and reasonable. All it got me was a ton of downvotes.

Jersey Jacker's got a problem with the lacquer....
This is certainly more of a concern than dimplegate, especially with a game so new. I have to wonder if maybe there is just too much clear being used on playfields in general these days (to a detriment) - regardless of the manufacturer. Obviously the older games used a less EPA friendly blend, but they sure hold up better as a result.

I feel for you guys though, the games aren't cheap and I hope there can be some way to be made whole.

So I just read the letter again and I didn’t see anywhere claiming to threaten legal action. Just clearly lays out the facts of the issue, clearly expresses disappointment in the product and solutions to date and is supported by several community members.

If we are at a point where you can’t write a letter of complaint to a business without retaliation, just plain ridiculous.

I think the dangerous path chosen if all the speculation is true would be JJP discriminating against folks who were given offers of purchase at $550 but participated in a community action letter because they weren’t happy. This could open up a whole other world of shit for them, just saying...I’ve personally seen this before although not in a pinball capacity.

I think downvotes came more from extreme persistence on your end, after downplaying people feeling frustrated about this issue over and over again.

Hell, I got mass downvotes regarding criticism of the mechs on the new Stern Jurassic Park, backed off, but questioned more why got downvoted for having different views. Then I was told I was a martyr for doing so.

At a certain point, this and any forum becomes more ego pushing on both end than anything. I feel the longer I'm on here, the less I learn, and the more egos I feel.

I have to say I am fatigued by @harryhoudini's many posts on this subject. If he is trying to get some form of restitution from JJP, that's up to him. However, I don't need to know every detail about it. I didn't realize he had a routed table that he bought second hand. I think JJP would be more concerned and apt to listen if it was an original owner and home use only. Also, it doesn't look good that he is profiting a bit off the table from his mods. I would say that those issues, plus his harassment of JJP through his multiple posts all over Pinside would make him not the best one to try to push this issue forward with JJP. I do wish him all the luck in the world, but if the damage was done on route, I doubt JJP would be willing to compensate the person who bought that machine. However, if I were JJP, I'd really be looking closely at those Wonka tables. If they start chipping, then it shows that they have a real problem on their hands and would validate Pirate owners' complaints. I have a WOZ and Hobbit with the exact same posts and absolutely no chipping or ripples. I count myself lucky that my JJPOTC has had no issues. I have a two posts with a ripple around them and I got the neoprene washer fix from JJP 2 days after I put in a ticket. I have had no issues at all with the game. My guess is that most home owners are happy with their game and either do not have the playfield issues, or they are minor and not enough to cause them to make a complaint. With so much on the playfield, even if it was only a relative few with severe issues, I can't imagine giving owners fully populated playfields. For me, if I had chipping around the posts, I would not want to undertake the task of a playfield swap on this game. And I certainly wouldn't expect a casual pinball buyer to either. I remain a JJP fan and will likely own another of their games. But I will keep an eye open for what happens with Wonka. So far, looks like only some rippling around the post. I will say that all of my JJP games, Pirates included, show less wear than any Stern I've owned. I think their quality remains superior, but they still have a way to go, especially at their price point and depreciation in the marketplace.

How many people actually signed those letters anyways?

I believe quite a few signed, not sure why this matters. It will either make a difference or it won’t. My decision has been made, no more money to JJP from me. Funny thing here is that if it does change things all the ball busters here giving harryhoudini a bag of shit will be coming for their free handouts.

It’s mind boggling that people think this playfield issue is ok. The Wonka I played a few weeks ago on Route was less than two weeks old and was beginning to look rough at every single post.

Enjoy your 10k disposable toys everyone!

This thread isn't fun.
My friends call me Cpt. Obvious.

With all due respect, I've read this thread from day 1 and you have appeared like a gladiator protecting JJP and dismissing an issue and trying to make your opinion as factual not taking into account not everyone is like you... willing to accept a sub par product and a so called resolution that hides the issue paired with somehow a $550 (plus shipping) replacement playfield with the EXACT same garbage clear coat issue. You may feel satisfied with JJPs efforts which is fine, but you crossed the line when you more or less started to tell others how they should feel. Again, with all due respect, your down votes were very much well deserved (in my opinion not fact).

I don't think anyone thinks this playfield issue is ok.

Its not fun for me either, but entirely necessary in my honest opinion. Companies need to be held accountable

You are crazy. You cant expect people who pay 9-12K for a pin or not to go ballistic when the PF starts to come apart at 100 games or around that. some W/B games have perfect PFs after thousand of games and being 20-30 years old. You think its too much to expect a game you pay this much for to stay intact for a couple years. That is completely beyond my capability to fathom that anyone would find that acceptable. I figured my game was a one time event that surely wouldn't happen to others and certainly not to future games. I figured free PF would be the least Jack could do. He should have replaced the whole game as it wasn't out of warranty yet but he gave me the run around and finally after pushing him shipped a reject PF. Fuck that, fuck Jack, fuck his pinball machines and his playfields. After 5 games and it is still happening, well that is close to criminal as far as I'm concerned. He is willingly and knowingly selling a defective product. A auto manufacturer would have to issue a recall and repair the car for free. Yes I know this isn't a car. You people who own his defective products should start a class action lawsuit and sue his ass.

Knowingly selling a defective product? That's a pretty loaded statement... My POTC CE is in outstanding shape play field wise so while I'm not downplaying or denying others have issues, it's not universal. Everything I've ever had a problem with on any of my JJP games, JJP has been extremely helpful.

What I don't understand in all of this is JJP's approach to this issue. From where I sit I don't see why JJP has been so unwilling to at least offer up a free replacement play field, owner handles the swap work. I think that would be a simple middle ground approach which JJP doesn't seem interested in. Why? Who knows...??? Lots of speculation here about JJP's financial situation and all of that which may very well be valid.

Either way, I haven't seen anything that makes me want out of my Wonka CE preorder, YMMV...

Jeff

Yes knowingly. There have been multiple issues with his PFs since WoZ, quite a few in fact. I have seen PF with the entire pop bumper are down to wood. He has done nothing to change or stop this. He gives out stickers to cover it or some other band aid or he will sell you another potentially flawed PF. I don't want a fucking sticker over the PF of my game I paid a ton for. So yes, He knowingly and willingly is selling a potentially flawed product. He just is betting that no one will do anything about it but bitch.

LOL... Okay then, don't buy their games. More for the rest of us then.

Jeff