(Topic ID: 242867)

PoTC - Who has playfield cracking & wear around sling posts?


By harryhoudini

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 2,984 posts
  • 217 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 days ago by MarZ_78
  • Topic is favorited by 63 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“What kind of issues are you seeing?”

  • I have visible dimples but no chipping 45 votes
    22%
  • I can see chipping but haven't done anything yet 67 votes
    33%
  • I can see chipping and installed mylar, washer and/or larger star post 30 votes
    15%
  • My playfield looks fine (but I haven't removed the star posts) 31 votes
    15%
  • I removed the star posts and my playfield looks fine 15 votes
    7%
  • My game had clear washers installed from the factory 15 votes
    7%

(Multiple choice - 203 votes by 191 Pinsiders)

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#1951 10 months ago

New GOTG...

20190803_225200 (resized).jpg20190803_225207 (resized).jpg20190803_225307 (resized).jpg
#1952 10 months ago
Quoted from JoeJet:

New GOTG...[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Clear bunching is the new planking/grain.

These are probably not bad enough to get a replacement from Stern. We had an Iron Maiden Pro that was similar and nothing happened with it in regards to a replacement.

#1953 10 months ago
Quoted from JoeJet:

New GOTG...[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Looks just like my Pirates.

No more new pins till this gets figured out.

#1954 10 months ago
Quoted from DougPiranha:

Looks just like my Pirates.
No more new pins till this gets figured out.

For real. (Please don’t let them come out with anything I can’t live without for a while...)

#1955 10 months ago
Quoted from DougPiranha:

No more new pins till this gets figured out.

It's really unfortunate for everyone! Have there been any issues with the remakes: MMr, MBr and AFMr? Those titles didn't have the release cycle issues built into them that Stern, JJP and others are facing.

The manufactures are for sure pushing to get the next cool thing released, maybe they simply need to let these boards sit for a longer period of time before screwing things onto them? Is JP2 being pushed out the door, to combat WW in the fight for the

limited money pool_available in pinball? I wouldn't be surprised to see JP2 playfield issues in the rush to market.

#1956 10 months ago
Quoted from wesman:

From what I heard, I believe through an interview with Jack, they initially wanted parts for 1500 games, for some reason could only acquire 1000 sets.

and that's exactly why they quit making them.

#1957 10 months ago

Personally have played a lot of CGC games and none of them have these issues that I have seen. I have played a number of AFM, MB, MMR everyone I have played is solid

#1958 10 months ago
Quoted from Soulrider911:

Personally have played a lot of CGC games and none of them have these issues that I have seen. I have played a number of AFM, MB, MMR everyone I have played is solid

What's the source of CGC, Stern, and JJP fields?

Is it time to cure or is it the manufacturer?

#1959 10 months ago
Quoted from mjruser:

What's the source of CGC, Stern, and JJP fields?
Is it time to cure or is it the manufacturer?

That's the big question, but if it was just the clear, it wouldn't have art chipping off clean like some of the JJP Mircos are. It's like there's an ink adhesion problem, too.

#1960 10 months ago

Unfortunate for sure. Just returned from the Wonka forum, and there are new pictures posted of aWonka LE machine that also has the same type of playfield issue. $9500.00 + taxes, shipping and having to deal with defect is unacceptable.

#1961 10 months ago
Quoted from mjruser:

What's the source of CGC, Stern, and JJP fields?

CGC does PF's in house.

#1962 10 months ago

The worst that seems to happen with CGC is ribbing (which I have on my AFMr) and cracking around the decals. I believe they do screen printing. I am fairly happy with my AFMr playfield.

#1963 10 months ago
Quoted from Soulrider911:

Personally have played a lot of CGC games and none of them have these issues that I have seen. I have played a number of AFM, MB, MMR everyone I have played is solid

I own an AFM LE. No PF issues whatsoever, but I would point out that the originals seem to shoot a bit more smooth. Nothing wrong with the remake and I recommend them highly. Just sayin'

I think the manufacturers, in general, could stand to spend more time making games "dialed in", fast, smooth and fun to play -- right out of the box. Just got back from Pinburgh and the difference between the well-tuned Papa machines and even NIB is astounding. The Papa machines are set up to screw you in various ways (no outlane rubbers, huge rubbers on shots that are otherwise too easy, etc), making you play better...but they are still smokin' smooth!!

#1964 10 months ago
Quoted from knobstone:

Unfortunate for sure. Just returned from the Wonka forum, and there are new pictures posted of aWonka LE machine that also has the same type of playfield issue. $9500.00 + taxes, shipping and having to deal with defect is unacceptable.

Clear is denting where post were tight but i didnt c any chipping? As long as playfield dont start chipping apart is the clear bunching up around some post a huge deal? I have/had alot of pins that have slight clear bunching up but that was the extent .... now if it starts chipping apart that's another story.

#1965 10 months ago

On location today...
Wonka LE with displacing clear....
20190804_122046 (resized).jpg
Pirates with displacing clear and chipped up saucer...
20190804_115130 (resized).jpg20190804_115114 (resized).jpg
But what really got my attention is the playfield looked like it was sliced up with a razor blade....hard to photograph but you can see a bit of it in Jacks face...the dirt has settled in making it more noticable...

20190804_121953 (resized).jpg20190804_121945 (resized).jpg20190804_121926 (resized).jpg
#1966 10 months ago

If I had to guess, that slicing on the playfield is coming from chipped balls, which are probably caused by the t-nut in the map hole. I seriously doubt that operators are addressing that problem before it is put on route.

As bad as the clearcoat problems are, the t-nut issue is some respects is worse. If that is not addressed, no part pf the playfield is going to look good. It could also be caused by the bracket that extends past the metal guide in the back right. Either way, your balls are beat to hell quickly and they will unleash destruction on the playfield.

#1967 10 months ago

I’m point a clear finger at mirco, BUT it’s JJP’s Responsibility to resolve as they are using them as a supplier in their final product.

#1968 10 months ago

I plan to pick up a HUO LE maybe next year at some point. Can someone list everything I should be looking for when searching for a game? I haven't followed all of the POTC threads all the way through but there seems to be a laundry list of potential issues. This is the first I hear of this T-nut in the map hole thing...jeez.

#1969 10 months ago
Quoted from gumnut01:

The worst that seems to happen with CGC is ribbing (which I have on my AFMr) and cracking around the decals. I believe they do screen printing. I am fairly happy with my AFMr playfield.

CGC had issues with clear cracking (but the ink did not come up) on Medieval Madness playfields. I haven't seen the same problem on AfMr or MBr. Aside from getting the screen color layer COMPLETELY WRONG on some of the AfMr, they seem to have the least problems with their playfields.

#1970 10 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

CGC had issues with clear cracking (but the ink did not come up) on Medieval Madness playfields. I haven't seen the same problem on AfMr or MBr. Aside from getting the screen color layer COMPLETELY WRONG on some of the AfMr, they seem to have the least problems with their playfields.

Agree. The vertical ribbing does not bother me, but it was noticeable if I look for it. Great game. And playfield.

#1971 10 months ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Clear is denting where post were tight but i didnt c any chipping? As long as playfield dont start chipping apart is the clear bunching up around some post a huge deal? I have/had alot of pins that have slight clear bunching up but that was the extent .... now if it starts chipping apart that's another story.

Bunching is the first step in this process. Chipping often follows.

Quoted from cosmokramer:

On location today...
Wonka LE with displacing clear....
[quoted image]
Pirates with displacing clear and chipped up saucer...
[quoted image][quoted image]
But what really got my attention is the playfield looked like it was sliced up with a razor blade....hard to photograph but you can see a bit of it in Jacks face...the dirt has settled in making it more noticable...[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

That's absolutely awful.

Thank you for taking and posting photos. It's pretty essential to note these issues, so they can be corrected for present and future games.

I'm starting to finally really enjoy Wonka, but no way am I walking back into this fire with all of these continued and repeated issues.

Quoted from statsdoc:

If I had to guess, that slicing on the playfield is coming from chipped balls, which are probably caused by the t-nut in the map hole. I seriously doubt that operators are addressing that problem before it is put on route.
As bad as the clearcoat problems are, the t-nut issue is some respects is worse. If that is not addressed, no part pf the playfield is going to look good. It could also be caused by the bracket that extends past the metal guide in the back right. Either way, your balls are beat to hell quickly and they will unleash destruction on the playfield.

Did you trim either of those on your game? I did the tnut, and before I start playing again, I'll trim that bracket in the back behind the Pearl, as well as put some more neoprene under the star posts under the Pearl ramp and in the Chapter Select area.

I saw a Pirates last night on location with chipping and cracking under the ramp. Shoulda took a photo...

#1972 10 months ago
Quoted from wesman:

Did you trim either of those on your game? ...

I adhered a hard rubber piece to the wood above the t-nut after I inspected the pinballs after a dozen games and could see how they were already dented. I also checked to make sure they cleared the brace behind the metal guide, which they did, so no fix was necessary. The rubber piece protected things until I got the ship off, which I will do now that I received my Cliffy protectors. I checked the pinballs again a few days ago and they look fine. The rubber may make the map shot slightly harder, but I haven’t noticed and can make that shot without an issue. I may just leave it as is ... still debating.

I am going to have to look at the other posts you mentioned. How many of the are there ... so I can order parts?

#1973 10 months ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

I adhered a hard rubber piece to the wood above the t-nut after I inspected the pinballs after a dozen games and could see how they were already dented. I also checked to make sure they cleared the brace behind the metal guide, which they did, so no fix was necessary. The rubber piece protected things until I got the ship off, which I will do now that I received my Cliffy protectors. I checked the pinballs again a few days ago and they look fine. The rubber may make the map shot slightly harder, but I haven’t noticed and can make that shot without an issue. I may just leave it as is ... still debating.
I am going to have to look at the other posts you mentioned. How many of the are there ... so I can order parts?

If anyone can corroborate...

I think 2 and 2 for the slings in chapter select.

2 for the sling near the bumpers.

3 for the sling under the Pearl Ramp.

And then the standard 3 for both lower slings.

#1974 10 months ago
Quoted from wesman:

If anyone can corroborate...
I think 2 and 2 for the slings in chapter select.
2 for the sling near the bumpers.
3 for the sling under the Pearl Ramp.
And then the standard 3 for both lower slings.

Thank you. I did a quick visual inspection and do not see any bunching of the clear on any of those posts. Perhaps I am lucky so far. I am debating what to do and will have to go back and find the recommended star posts and washers.

I sure appreciate everyone on this forum. I cannot imagine dealing with all of this on my own. I would not have even known where to expect problems without you all. Thank you everyone.

#1975 10 months ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

Thank you. I did a quick visual inspection and do not see any bunching of the clear on any of those posts. Perhaps I am lucky so far. I am debating what to do and will have to go back and find the recommended star posts and washers.
I sure appreciate everyone on this forum. I cannot imagine dealing with all of this on my own. I would not have even known where to expect problems without you all. Thank you everyone.

Here's double star posts people recommend. I used them for the lower slings, with the Lowe's neoprene washers.

https://www.pinballlife.com/plastic-translucent-double-star-posts-1-116-tall.html

Here are the washers.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hillman-2-Count-5-16-in-x-3-4-in-Neoprene-Standard-SAE-Fender-Washers/3012346

#1976 10 months ago

Looks like the certified letter addressed to JJP / Jack was refused. Four have been delivered to investors and one is still out for delivery.

#1977 10 months ago

Looks like something happened with the letter to JJP. Four others were delivered and one is out for delivery, all of those to the investors. I wasn't home to get the letter back, so hopefully it comes tomorrow with a reason why it couldn't be delivered. It never left Seattle so it wasn't refused. As far as I know JJP doesn't know I sent the letter, unless they read it here.

#1978 10 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Looks like the certified letter addressed to JJP / Jack was refused. Four have been delivered to investors and one is still out for delivery.

Friendly alternate perspective offered with the best of intentions:

What are you doing here? What's the plan? The desired outcome? The reality is you're the second owner of a machine that was initially routed - that's two major strikes. Because of that, legally, JJP doesn't owe you anything at all. In my experience, this isn't the way to get a satisfactory resolution to anything. It seems like you jumped from DEFCON 4 or 3 to DEFCON 1 and skipped all the in-between. Elevating to this level is a bad idea because there's nowhere left to go. I mean, I hope it works out for you, but I just have to give you a perspective from outside your bubble - you're way down a really dangerous path.

#1979 10 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

As far as I know JJP doesn't know I sent the letter, unless they read it here.

If I owned a pinball company I would hire someone just to read Pinside threads all day long. They read it the day you posted it here.

12
#1980 10 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

Friendly alternate perspective offered with the best of intentions:
What are you doing here? What's the plan? The desired outcome? The reality is you're the second owner of a machine that was initially routed - that's two major strikes. Because of that, legally, JJP doesn't owe you anything at all. In my experience, this isn't the way to get a satisfactory resolution to anything. It seems like you jumped from DEFCON 4 or 3 to DEFCON 1 and skipped all the in-between. Elevating to this level is a bad idea because there's nowhere left to go. I mean, I hope it works out for you, but I just have to give you a perspective from outside your bubble - you're way down a really dangerous path.

Have you been reading this thread?

I'll combine all the answers once again in to this reply.

1. My ownership nor the use of the game is unrelated to the issue. I am not covered under warranty, nor are 99% of the people here. Read the warranty, "legally" JJP doesn't owe anyone anything at this point. In as much as if I were the 2nd owner of a car with a recall I should be entitled to any recourse available to anyone else for a manufacturing defect. JJP owes the owners of it's games the restitution of having a quality machine. I bought based on that belief of their highly touted quality and asserted quality customer service. I don't know the answer, did Stern discriminate for any of the restitution it made? Why does the owner of the game matter? Didn't JJP produce it? Doesn't it have the same manufacturing defect as any 1st owner game? This is a tired argument and short sighted. We've already proven my game has normal or lower plays than many other here, no matter if it was on "route".

2. If you have followed along here I would suspect you would know that I did anything BUT overreact. This topic was beaten over and over before any actions even took place, what should we do, what do we expect, etc. I wrote emails, took pictures, talked to JJP reps, talked to Jack, etc. Now the STRONGLY WORDED letter to the OWNERSHIP of the company about the situation is too strong? What would the lesser step be, please share your thoughts now that we're 40 pages in to this. I can think of no other word than ridiculous when calling a certified letter from upset owners a 'triple dog dare' of sorts. Did not enough owners step forward already, contacting JJP directly, to only be shoved off to the side?

3. I have NO PATH to worry about. What's the best JJP can do? Not sell me a game? Not sell me parts? Wouldn't that be a smart PR move given this thread and the backlash they are getting out of this. They have had passes on issues like this in the past, owners didn't stand up and JJP didn't step up. It's not right. It is not OK to create an inferior product, sell it knowingly and then expect your customers to spend further money to solve the issue when the company is putting in absolutely NOTHING to the solution. Tell me their cost on this exceeds $550 per playfield. I have spoken nothing but the truth, many others agree with me and many have the issue. Why are my actions so hostile when the actions of JJP have been entirely negligent and abusive of their customers?

4. Why the shiz do a few people want to treat this situation as so passe? Substitute any other high end, non-essential good here and explain to me which company you would like this kind of defect slide? Is everyone ok with their BMW paint bubbling? Or maybe your LG phone that has a bad charging port? How many specific instances do I need to look up historically to show that this isn't the way a successful, serious and caring company takes care of its customers. None of us should have to go to these lengths. Yet, it's on my shoulders yet I am not the one who doesn't reply to their customers, lies to their customers and otherwise puts them off without any sort of decent communication?

5. My plan has been pretty clearly laid out here, telegraphed over weeks, discussed and suggestions taken. I went through the standard channels. I followed up like others have. I found out about the post kit and the playfield offer here, like most everyone else did. I emailed Jack. I talked on the phone with Jack. Jack lied to me and otherwise fed me lines to placate me, it's clear at this point. What would you really think my next step could be? How many times do you have to have your meal sent back before you ask to talk to the manager? There are other owners of this company, I think they should also know the issues we are having and others agree with me. Also, it's done so your warning comes a day late and several dollars, like $550, short.

6. I've not only had a fair share of other manufacturing issues with this game, I've spent quite a bit in money fixing those and other issues. I'm not just making up stuff, other people aren't just complaining to complain. Real issues exist that were caused by poor quality standards, insufficient testing, lack of responsiveness and overall lack of attention to detail that a product priced at this level with the claims JJP makes on their website should not have.

If I sound repugnant it's because this is taking up entirely too much of my life and I'm tired of answering these questions. I don't own anyone in this thread anything, I've done my fair share and if others don't agree with my ideas or methods that is fine, but a great portion seem to. On top of the public support I have received many, many private messages of support. Many have stated they are upset, not wanting to purchase further JJP games, etc. Yet, for all the common sense it seems to make to many people here it doesn't seem to make sense to JJP to take care of their customers, garner great feedback for their support, hold up their quality standard nor differentiate themselves from any other pinball manufacturer.

How many times do the arguments need to be made? If the issue is small, then it costs JJP almost nothing to provide free playfields. If it isn't then they owe the same result, catch-22. If it is a JJP issue, it's their manufacturing defect. If it's Mirco's issue it's JJP's fault for not doing proper QC or validation. If the posts are at fault it's JJP's fault. If it's a manufacturing line issue (as I am 100% positive Jack swore by) then it's JJP's fault. No matter what it's JJP's fault. SO WHY IS IT THE OWNER'S RESPONSIBILITY TO PAY FOR THE FIX? Why oh why tell me please is the installation of a new playfield not a burden enough for an owner so they must also pay $600 to get that privilege?

#1981 10 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

Friendly alternate perspective offered with the best of intentions:
What are you doing here? What's the plan? The desired outcome? The reality is you're the second owner of a machine that was initially routed - that's two major strikes. Because of that, legally, JJP doesn't owe you anything at all. In my experience, this isn't the way to get a satisfactory resolution to anything. It seems like you jumped from DEFCON 4 or 3 to DEFCON 1 and skipped all the in-between. Elevating to this level is a bad idea because there's nowhere left to go. I mean, I hope it works out for you, but I just have to give you a perspective from outside your bubble - you're way down a really dangerous path.

What is the suggested path of restitution here. It would seem you have some knowledge - based on the context of your post... Please share with us. Kinda get the feeling you may have missed some of the details in this topic.

-1
#1982 10 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

Friendly alternate perspective offered with the best of intentions:
What are you doing here? What's the plan? The desired outcome? The reality is you're the second owner of a machine that was initially routed - that's two major strikes. Because of that, legally, JJP doesn't owe you anything at all. In my experience, this isn't the way to get a satisfactory resolution to anything. It seems like you jumped from DEFCON 4 or 3 to DEFCON 1 and skipped all the in-between. Elevating to this level is a bad idea because there's nowhere left to go. I mean, I hope it works out for you, but I just have to give you a perspective from outside your bubble - you're way down a really dangerous path.

This is what I've been saying all along. By going ballistic and making legal threats, the well is now poisoned and goodwill is out the window.
I've been pleading all along for people to be logical, rational and reasonable. All it got me was a ton of downvotes.

#1983 10 months ago

Jersey Jacker's got a problem with the lacquer....
This is certainly more of a concern than dimplegate, especially with a game so new. I have to wonder if maybe there is just too much clear being used on playfields in general these days (to a detriment) - regardless of the manufacturer. Obviously the older games used a less EPA friendly blend, but they sure hold up better as a result.

I feel for you guys though, the games aren't cheap and I hope there can be some way to be made whole.

#1984 10 months ago

So I just read the letter again and I didn’t see anywhere claiming to threaten legal action. Just clearly lays out the facts of the issue, clearly expresses disappointment in the product and solutions to date and is supported by several community members.

If we are at a point where you can’t write a letter of complaint to a business without retaliation, just plain ridiculous.

I think the dangerous path chosen if all the speculation is true would be JJP discriminating against folks who were given offers of purchase at $550 but participated in a community action letter because they weren’t happy. This could open up a whole other world of shit for them, just saying...I’ve personally seen this before although not in a pinball capacity.

#1985 10 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

This is what I've been saying all along. By going ballistic and making legal threats, the well is now poisoned and goodwill is out the window.
I've been pleading all along for people to be logical, rational and reasonable. All it got me was a ton of downvotes.

I think downvotes came more from extreme persistence on your end, after downplaying people feeling frustrated about this issue over and over again.

Hell, I got mass downvotes regarding criticism of the mechs on the new Stern Jurassic Park, backed off, but questioned more why got downvoted for having different views. Then I was told I was a martyr for doing so.

At a certain point, this and any forum becomes more ego pushing on both end than anything. I feel the longer I'm on here, the less I learn, and the more egos I feel.

-1
#1986 10 months ago

I have to say I am fatigued by harryhoudini's many posts on this subject. If he is trying to get some form of restitution from JJP, that's up to him. However, I don't need to know every detail about it. I didn't realize he had a routed table that he bought second hand. I think JJP would be more concerned and apt to listen if it was an original owner and home use only. Also, it doesn't look good that he is profiting a bit off the table from his mods. I would say that those issues, plus his harassment of JJP through his multiple posts all over Pinside would make him not the best one to try to push this issue forward with JJP. I do wish him all the luck in the world, but if the damage was done on route, I doubt JJP would be willing to compensate the person who bought that machine. However, if I were JJP, I'd really be looking closely at those Wonka tables. If they start chipping, then it shows that they have a real problem on their hands and would validate Pirate owners' complaints. I have a WOZ and Hobbit with the exact same posts and absolutely no chipping or ripples. I count myself lucky that my JJPOTC has had no issues. I have a two posts with a ripple around them and I got the neoprene washer fix from JJP 2 days after I put in a ticket. I have had no issues at all with the game. My guess is that most home owners are happy with their game and either do not have the playfield issues, or they are minor and not enough to cause them to make a complaint. With so much on the playfield, even if it was only a relative few with severe issues, I can't imagine giving owners fully populated playfields. For me, if I had chipping around the posts, I would not want to undertake the task of a playfield swap on this game. And I certainly wouldn't expect a casual pinball buyer to either. I remain a JJP fan and will likely own another of their games. But I will keep an eye open for what happens with Wonka. So far, looks like only some rippling around the post. I will say that all of my JJP games, Pirates included, show less wear than any Stern I've owned. I think their quality remains superior, but they still have a way to go, especially at their price point and depreciation in the marketplace.

#1987 10 months ago

How many people actually signed those letters anyways?

13
#1988 10 months ago
Quoted from pipes:

How many people actually signed those letters anyways?

I believe quite a few signed, not sure why this matters. It will either make a difference or it won’t. My decision has been made, no more money to JJP from me. Funny thing here is that if it does change things all the ball busters here giving harryhoudini a bag of shit will be coming for their free handouts.

It’s mind boggling that people think this playfield issue is ok. The Wonka I played a few weeks ago on Route was less than two weeks old and was beginning to look rough at every single post.

Enjoy your 10k disposable toys everyone!

#1989 10 months ago
Quoted from Crile1:

I have to say I am fatigued by harryhoudini's many posts on this subject. If he is trying to get some form of restitution from JJP, that's up to him. However, I don't need to know every detail about it. I didn't realize he had a routed table that he bought second hand. I think JJP would be more concerned and apt to listen if it was an original owner and home use only. Also, it doesn't look good that he is profiting a bit off the table from his mods. I would say that those issues, plus his harassment of JJP through his multiple posts all over Pinside would make him not the best one to try to push this issue forward with JJP. I do wish him all the luck in the world, but if the damage was done on route, I doubt JJP would be willing to compensate the person who bought that machine. However, if I were JJP, I'd really be looking closely at those Wonka tables. If they start chipping, then it shows that they have a real problem on their hands and would validate Pirate owners' complaints. I have a WOZ and Hobbit with the exact same posts and absolutely no chipping or ripples. I count myself lucky that my JJPOTC has had no issues. I have a two posts with a ripple around them and I got the neoprene washer fix from JJP 2 days after I put in a ticket. I have had no issues at all with the game. My guess is that most home owners are happy with their game and either do not have the playfield issues, or they are minor and not enough to cause them to make a complaint. With so much on the playfield, even if it was only a relative few with severe issues, I can't imagine giving owners fully populated playfields. For me, if I had chipping around the posts, I would not want to undertake the task of a playfield swap on this game. And I certainly wouldn't expect a casual pinball buyer to either. I remain a JJP fan and will likely own another of their games. But I will keep an eye open for what happens with Wonka. So far, looks like only some rippling around the post. I will say that all of my JJP games, Pirates included, show less wear than any Stern I've owned. I think their quality remains superior, but they still have a way to go, especially at their price point and depreciation in the marketplace.

Have you read the thread or my recent reply to vireland? This has nothing to do with a game being "on route". I'm not the only one with issues. No matter where the game was located it got plays less than or similar to other games in home use situations. No matter if I am making mods for the game or not, it has issues. I don't see why this issue is confusing for the few of you who keep bringing this up. The game has manufacturing defects, the other questions don't matter. It's systemic across many games from all types of use situations. We've shown the faulty playfield clear and the faulty posts. Don't try to disguise this by sloughing off my proactivism as "less than" because the game was played but multiple people who didn't own it. The play count is what matters, no? And even then, NO... it does not matter because this is NOT THE OWNER'S FAULT. JJP created and perpetuated the issue on their own.

My posts on the subject relate to the reason this post was created. If you aren't interested in the path this is taking, don't follow?

Harassment? Are you serious? I started exactly two threads about this, the other asking if this was a Mirco issue that others had experienced. I sent as many or less emails to JJP than others have. If anything I was patient and understanding for weeks waiting for responses and updates, which never came.

#1990 10 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

This is what I've been saying all along. By going ballistic and making legal threats, the well is now poisoned and goodwill is out the window.
I've been pleading all along for people to be logical, rational and reasonable. All it got me was a ton of downvotes.

You were downvoted because you made statements with condemned the people who were speaking out against the issue.

------------------

I recommend everyone who is hysterical about this issue to sell their game immediately. Demand is high. Move on and don't let it trouble you.

In my view, this whole thread ought to be drained. All it's doing is whipping people into a frenzy and trying to get a mass riot going against JJP, which is going to hurt them and ultimately, ourselves.

All I know is, the depressions and the chipping are 100% hidden under the star posts so I am really not as twisted about this as the rest of the thread seems to be.

Argh can’t we let this topic rest? The solutions are well documented at this point.

I do worry that it gives an unfair impression to people that you're going to see ALL the problems on the list, even though many of them are definitely one-offs.

They’ve made a very reasonable effort to make it right. It’s not realistic to expect more than this.

Just asking, do you guys ever play the game or just seek out things to obsess about?

If you keep looking for problems, you're going to keep finding them.

I advise one of two courses of action:

1. Play the game. Get the spare playfield, and don't let any blemish, scuff, chip or crack bother you.
2. Sell it. It will be snapped up quickly and you'll have a stressor out of your life.

As a fan of playing the game, I suggest #1.

The notion that JJP is "getting away with shit" as if they engineered this intentionally and are scheming to ruin your experience is what I take issue with.

If you have empathy and see the other side of the issue you will see that they are doing what they can to do right by their customers.

---------------

But then you took them back and apologized:

---------------
I am, I have, and honestly I apologize to everyone on the thread.

These machines do represent substantial investments for all of us.
The chipping is real, and it sucks for everyone involved (including the manufacturers.)

I was able to get over it since mine was hideable with star posts, but others might not be so lucky if their damage is worse.

My initial goal with my protests was to try and encourage a spirit of compromise. I'm sorry that I've strayed from that.

I do hope the issues are resolved in a way that bring everyone peace and enjoyment with their machines.
---------------

You and others have claimed there is some monster legal action happening or threats when there are no such things. What I wrote was a fairly innocuous letter, as far as upset customers go, with a detailed explanation of the situation and reasoning why the issue should be handled better by JJP. You suggested that giving everyone a free playfield was detrimental to them, $550k would be too much per your post. Why is $550k ok for the owners to spend? Why is any money ok for the owners to spend? No owner caused this issue. In fact, not only did JJP cause the issue in one way or another, they delayed announcing it and providing a fix which likely contributed to further damage. They didn't handle this situation in a way befitting the cost of the games they produce nor with their claimed quality standards in mind.

I think people are upset about my course of action because they put JJP on some sort of pedestal because they are fanatical about pinball and the manufacturers they support. They want no ill will to be laid upon them and so they must not be at fault. Or their lack of QC and response to manufacturing issues is not a problem because JJP might go under or can't afford the fix or is doing enough (by doing literally nothing but selling off their stock of playfields at most likely more than cost).

No one can convince me that the right way to handle this is to allow owners to pay $600 for the privilege of getting a new (likely still with issues) playfield that they then have to install. I just can't fathom how anyone could think this was a compromise by JJP or them stepping up to the plate. It's literally them doing almost nothing, the least they could do in somehow getting a playfield offer to customers. The only lesser thing they could do is sell them at retail..

#1991 10 months ago

This thread isn't fun.
My friends call me Cpt. Obvious.

#1992 10 months ago
Quoted from Reznnate:

This thread isn't fun.
My friends call me Cpt. Obvious.

Dear Cpt,

My mom always told me not every thread in life would be fun.

Your's truly,

The first mate who would rather not be dealing with this.

12
#1993 10 months ago

My pirates playfield has many issues which makes me an unsatisfied customer. I did cancel my Wonka CE order solely because of that.

12
#1994 10 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

This is what I've been saying all along. By going ballistic and making legal threats, the well is now poisoned and goodwill is out the window.
I've been pleading all along for people to be logical, rational and reasonable. All it got me was a ton of downvotes.

With all due respect, I've read this thread from day 1 and you have appeared like a gladiator protecting JJP and dismissing an issue and trying to make your opinion as factual not taking into account not everyone is like you... willing to accept a sub par product and a so called resolution that hides the issue paired with somehow a $550 (plus shipping) replacement playfield with the EXACT same garbage clear coat issue. You may feel satisfied with JJPs efforts which is fine, but you crossed the line when you more or less started to tell others how they should feel. Again, with all due respect, your down votes were very much well deserved (in my opinion not fact).

#1995 10 months ago
Quoted from Psw757:

It’s mind boggling that people think this playfield issue is ok. The Wonka I played a few weeks ago on Route was less than two weeks old and was beginning to look rough at every single post.

I don't think anyone thinks this playfield issue is ok.

#1996 10 months ago
Quoted from Reznnate:

This thread isn't fun.
My friends call me Cpt. Obvious.

Its not fun for me either, but entirely necessary in my honest opinion. Companies need to be held accountable

#1997 10 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Play the game. Get the spare playfield, and don't let any blemish, scuff, chip or crack bother you.

You are crazy. You cant expect people who pay 9-12K for a pin or not to go ballistic when the PF starts to come apart at 100 games or around that. some W/B games have perfect PFs after thousand of games and being 20-30 years old. You think its too much to expect a game you pay this much for to stay intact for a couple years. That is completely beyond my capability to fathom that anyone would find that acceptable. I figured my game was a one time event that surely wouldn't happen to others and certainly not to future games. I figured free PF would be the least Jack could do. He should have replaced the whole game as it wasn't out of warranty yet but he gave me the run around and finally after pushing him shipped a reject PF. Fuck that, fuck Jack, fuck his pinball machines and his playfields. After 5 games and it is still happening, well that is close to criminal as far as I'm concerned. He is willingly and knowingly selling a defective product. A auto manufacturer would have to issue a recall and repair the car for free. Yes I know this isn't a car. You people who own his defective products should start a class action lawsuit and sue his ass.

#1998 10 months ago
Quoted from zr11990:

You are crazy. You cant expect people who pay 9-12K for a pin or not to go ballistic when the PF starts to come apart at 100 games or around that. some W/B games have perfect PFs after thousand of games and being 20-30 years old. You think its too much to expect a game you pay this much for to stay intact for a couple years. That is completely beyond my capability to fathom that anyone would find that acceptable. I figured my game was a one time event that surely wouldn't happen to others and certainly not to future games. I figured free PF would be the least Jack could do. He should have replaced the whole game as it wasn't out of warranty yet but he gave me the run around and finally after pushing him shipped a reject PF. Fuck that, fuck Jack, fuck his pinball machines and his playfields. After 5 games and it is still happening, well that is close to criminal as far as I'm concerned. He is willingly and knowingly selling a defective product. A auto manufacturer would have to issue a recall and repair the car for free. Yes I know this isn't a car. You people who own his defective products should start a class action lawsuit and sue his ass.

Knowingly selling a defective product? That's a pretty loaded statement... My POTC CE is in outstanding shape play field wise so while I'm not downplaying or denying others have issues, it's not universal. Everything I've ever had a problem with on any of my JJP games, JJP has been extremely helpful.

What I don't understand in all of this is JJP's approach to this issue. From where I sit I don't see why JJP has been so unwilling to at least offer up a free replacement play field, owner handles the swap work. I think that would be a simple middle ground approach which JJP doesn't seem interested in. Why? Who knows...??? Lots of speculation here about JJP's financial situation and all of that which may very well be valid.

Either way, I haven't seen anything that makes me want out of my Wonka CE preorder, YMMV...

Jeff

#1999 10 months ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

Knowingly selling a defective product?

Yes knowingly. There have been multiple issues with his PFs since WoZ, quite a few in fact. I have seen PF with the entire pop bumper are down to wood. He has done nothing to change or stop this. He gives out stickers to cover it or some other band aid or he will sell you another potentially flawed PF. I don't want a fucking sticker over the PF of my game I paid a ton for. So yes, He knowingly and willingly is selling a potentially flawed product. He just is betting that no one will do anything about it but bitch.

-1
#2000 10 months ago
Quoted from zr11990:

Yes knowingly. There have been multiple issues with his PFs since WoZ, quite a few in fact. I have seen PF with the entire pop bumper are down to wood. He has done nothing to change or stop this. He gives out stickers to cover it or some other band aid or he will sell you another potentially flawed PF. I don't want a fucking sticker over the PF of my game I paid a ton for. So yes, He knowingly and willingly is selling a potentially flawed product. He just is betting that no one will do anything about it but bitch.

LOL... Okay then, don't buy their games. More for the rest of us then.

Jeff

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