Ann Arbor, MI
Quoted from harryhoudini:....If there is not movie integration why even bother.
You're saying this in a POTC thread? 
(Topic ID: 242867)
Linked Games
Pirates of the Caribbean
Jersey Jack, 2018-
Pirates of the Caribbean (CE)
Jersey Jack, 2018
-
Pirates of the Caribbean (LE)
Jersey Jack, 2018
Topic Gallery
Quoted from TheLaw:You're saying this in a POTC thread?
Heh. I was pretty dismayed at first, but you know what.... it doesn't really detract from the game that much. The politics, legalities and economics around it are absurd but there are probably many compromises with most licenses. I'd rather have the game as is than no game.
Quoted from solarvalue:Not so sure about that, Wonka has the main actors from the movie in the artwork, clips from the movie on the LCD and callouts from the film. At this early stage the rumours are that Stern's Jurassic Park will not use any clips from the film and, from the pics we have seen, only one of the actors in the movie appears in the artwork.
I guess I mean as in the spirit of the theme. I feel like there is certainly audio, character visuals, and some callouts, but the execution of Wonka, for me, doesn't feel as structured, joyful, or playful as it could have been.
We will see....!
Quoted from wesman:I guess I mean as in the spirit of the theme. I feel like there is certainly audio, character visuals, and some callouts, but the execution of Wonka, for me, doesn't feel as structured, joyful, or playful as it could have been.
I felt totally the opposite, I thought it was colorful, fun and great!
Quoted from mrgregb123:Very interesting thread.
My experience with JJP led me to write them off permanently, in addition to any NIB game with a Mirco playfield. It's become evident that Mirco playfields are rushed and prone to chipping. Of all the current pf manufacturers, IMO they are at the bottom of the barrel. But back to JJP....
I was an early Dialed In LE buyer. In short, my game had every documented problem the game was known to have - chips all over the playfield, rubber flakes everywhere from sub-standard rubber, ripped target on QED guy, torn cabinet decals, left ramp return ball flying out, etc. I wrote to Jack. He tried weaseling out by offering me RadCals (who TF wants this for a defective game?). I told him that he personally said to my face that JJP is the "Mercedes of pinball" which is why I bought the game and now I'm here to cash the check his mouth wrote. I told him that I wanted a new populated playfield. After spending $9000 on a pinball machine, sorry - I'm not doing a piece-by-piece pf swap on my dime. Apparently they didn't have the logistics to do this (!) at the time, so he refused. He then ignored my emails and calls for days. I called my disty, who's very well known and he [took action - don't want to say what he said/did with JJP] and they exchanged my entire game for a newer build. My disty is the man.
In the end, I got what I wanted, but JJP had little interest in doing this without [disty action], so I'll never buy another one again. I'm heartbroken to see that they are STILL dicking people around years later with legit defects. Lower your prices or overhaul your supply chain, JJP. This ain't it.
It stinks you had to go through that, and it stinks that issues with quality well beyond tweaks & fixes seem to have happened across different games and different years. It seems like the level of issues on the new machines goes beyond what a customer should really have to expect, and for the cost of these machines I don't think it's unreasonable to expect at least a little bit better build going out the door. I'm new to pinball ownership and I understand that these are machines and things will break or need adjusting, and that some tweaks, adjustments, & fixes might be needed on a new game. I get it. I have a ton of dimpling on my playfield and I've had to make tweaks, adjustments, and fixes to my POTC like everyone else. I've accepted it all, dealt with it, and continued playing. But when my playfield chips like this I think it's reasonable to expect the manufacturer to be able to offer advice on how to lay the chip down and minimize the risk of it spreading.
It now really seems to me like the company has a built-in tolerance & culture for shipping products without really trying to tighten up the quality issues, trusting that the "it's pinball" mentality will prevail and customers will tolerate it because they like the games. From a story like yours and now with the POTC playfield issue it seems they talk a good game about quality & support but unless it's just a minor issue they can address at little cost they're going to hide behind their very limited warranty term... except in my case where remarkably they've had 6 weeks where all they had to do was just respond with some advice which wouldn't have even cost them $1, yet they've still been unable to deliver any response. They're also charging shipping on the replacement playfields. Whatever someone thinks about whether or not the price of their replacement playfield offer is reasonable, I'd hope a vast majority of people would think the company should at least pick up the shipping cost on it. But they chose not to and that, along with their lack of response to my issue, leaves an impression with me.
Again, I went into my purchase with full knowledge about the warranty period & terms and they can choose to make whatever business decisions they want about how they respond to my issue and others. After this 6 weeks of silence I'll be making a different choice on the manufacturer of the next game I buy. And I'll say again my biggest surprise out of this is my impression that they don't seem to have anyone on staff who could answer a straightforward question about how to address a chip on the playfield. It's the foundation of their game and I'm guessing in general it's usually a lot more costly & time consuming to fix a playfield than a mechanical or electrical issue, yet they don't seem to have any information about it. Whatever other quality issues may go out the door on a new machine, I'd expected that a pinball machine manufacturer would have good working knowledge about playfields but that doesn't seem to be the case here. Otherwise I think I would have received a response by now.
Quoted from EaglePin:It stinks you had to go through that, and it stinks that issues with quality well beyond tweaks & fixes seem to have happened across different games and different years. It seems like the level of issues on the new machines goes beyond what a customer should really have to expect, and for the cost of these machines I don't think it's unreasonable to expect at least a little bit better build going out the door. I'm new to pinball ownership and I understand that these are machines and things will break or need adjusting, and that some tweaks, adjustments, & fixes might be needed on a new game. I get it. I have a ton of dimpling on my playfield and I've had to make tweaks, adjustments, and fixes to my POTC like everyone else. I've accepted it all, dealt with it, and continued playing. But when my playfield chips like this I think it's reasonable to expect the manufacturer to be able to offer advice on how to lay the chip down and minimize the risk of it spreading.
It now really seems to me like the company has a built-in tolerance & culture for shipping products without really trying to tighten up the quality issues, trusting that the "it's pinball" mentality will prevail and customers will tolerate it because they like the games. From a story like yours and now with the POTC playfield issue it seems they talk a good game about quality & support but unless it's just a minor issue they can address at little cost they're going to hide behind their very limited warranty term... except in my case where remarkably they've had 6 weeks where all they had to do was just respond with some advice which wouldn't have even cost them $1, yet they've still been unable to deliver any response. They're also charging shipping on the replacement playfields. Whatever someone thinks about whether or not the price of their replacement playfield offer is reasonable, I'd hope a vast majority of people would think the company should at least pick up the shipping cost on it. But they chose not to and that, along with their lack of response to my issue, leaves an impression with me.
Again, I went into my purchase with full knowledge about the warranty period & terms and they can choose to make whatever business decisions they want about how they respond to my issue and others. After this 6 weeks of silence I'll be making a different choice on the manufacturer of the next game I buy. And I'll say again my biggest surprise out of this is my impression that they don't seem to have anyone on staff who could answer a straightforward question about how to address a chip on the playfield. It's the foundation of their game and I'm guessing in general it's usually a lot more costly & time consuming to fix a playfield than a mechanical or electrical issue, yet they don't seem to have any information about it. Whatever other quality issues may go out the door on a new machine, I'd expected that a pinball machine manufacturer would have good working knowledge about playfields but that doesn't seem to be the case here. Otherwise I think I would have received a response by now.
They sorely need a public affairs person. Someone to represent them via media tweets, emails subscribers, moderator of their own forum, and deliver statements regarding issues like this.
There is zero transparency with these issues. They come out via customer complaints, and then are somewhat acknowledged in almost a hidden way by JJP.
Their public relations and service components are very, very poor, considering how stellar their products are designed. They excel at design, have fumbles in production, and then entirely have barely any reliable or reassuring customer relations department. Frank, Steve and LTG are always fantastic and kind, but these are technical agents. JJP needs media and consumer based representation on a level they currently don't have in place.
Quoted from EaglePin:It now really seems to me like the company has a built-in tolerance & culture for shipping products without really trying to tighten up the quality issues, trusting that the "it's pinball" mentality will prevail and customers will tolerate it because they like the games.
This is the entire crux of the situation. Games get pushed out the door without enough testing, parts aren't QC validated, code isn't complete and owners are used as a testbed. Small number of manufacturers. Fanatic fans and loyal customers. Expensive hobby, people have expendable income, mistakes are less concerning because what's another $600?
The community has been entirely complacent in holding a fire to manufacturer's feet in many of these cases, at least specifically with JJP and maybe Spooky. You don't have to imagine if this were some other industry, precedent is pretty well set that wide spread manufacturing defects of, especially, higher end goods are either well taken care of by those manufacturers who want to keep their reputation of quality and service or are ignored and litigated because it likely costs less to go that route, the value proposition is better. For all people want to shit on Stern, they sure keep selling games and seem to mostly take care of their customers.
I have to strongly assume Jack isn't dumb, I've only talked with him on the phone once and never really listen to podcasts or read articles about him or the industry much. I don't know even how much of this is up to him. For sure there was a value proposition discussed internally; how big of a deal is this going to be for reputation, how much will playfields cost, how many owners are likely to redeem them, how many likely have these issues, how much can we stand by our warranty, what is the likelihood of legal action (doubt this was even thought about, absurd in this industry). Corporations, especially with external shareholders, make decisions based on shareholder interest and profit. Otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion.
The stern issues seem to pale in comparison and they seemed to have eventually done the right thing. I don't own Stern and I wasn't around when this was happening so I am far from an expert but I've done a fuckton of reading and for the small number of issues JJP claims to have they sure don't step up and solve them.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-playfield-replacement-program-how-was-your-experience
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hey-stern-are-you-serious/page/131
Quoted from wesman:They sorely need a public affairs person. Someone to represent them via media tweets, emails subscribers, moderator of their own forum, and deliver statements regarding issues like this.
There is zero transparency with these issues. They come out via customer complaints, and then are somewhat acknowledged in almost a hidden way by JJP.
Their public relations and service components are very, very poor, considering how stellar their products are designed. They excel at design, have fumbles in production, and then entirely have barely any reliable or reassuring customer relations department. Frank, Steve and LTG are always fantastic and kind, but these are technical agents. JJP needs media and consumer based representation on a level they currently don't have in place.
Jen has been listed as their PR person in several places.
Quoted from wesman:They sorely need a public affairs person. Someone to represent them via media tweets, emails subscribers, moderator of their own forum, and deliver statements regarding issues like this.
There is zero transparency with these issues. They come out via customer complaints, and then are somewhat acknowledged in almost a hidden way by JJP.
Their public relations and service components are very, very poor, considering how stellar their products are designed. They excel at design, have fumbles in production, and then entirely have barely any reliable or reassuring customer relations department. Frank, Steve and LTG are always fantastic and kind, but these are technical agents. JJP needs media and consumer based representation on a level they currently don't have in place.
Last I checked which is rare JJP Did have a customer forum that Jen had setup. Not sure how a customer joins as I never found the need but curious if anyone here tried to communicate via the portal they already had designed specifically for their products and customers. Again I could be wrong but I believe that might be a better window to speak through. I know if I had a corporation an enthusiast forum is the last place I would field complaints. Might see if this option is open?
Quoted from harryhoudini:Jen has been listed as their PR person in several places.
Exactly my point.
She was very kind, polite, and courteous when my friend and I stopped in a year ago, but she can only handle so much, and maybe not a direct relative is better in that role. An expanded role, to complement what she does. One that could monitor forums like this actively, play a part in threads, create company based and game based threads, and also deal directly and aggressively with customer issues.
This is not effective presently. And for an internationally shipped product that is entirely a gratuitous home user focused product, this needs to be drastically improved. I wouldn't accept this degree of haphazard correspondence from any other manufacturer producing goods over $100.
Quoted from harryhoudini:OOOF. The only pic I've seen (it was a BAD resolution pic) because I haven't followed this at all yet looked bad. If there is not movie integration why even bother.
It could be hilarious if Dennis Nedry actor did the voice overs. Make it some sort of evil mission to escape JP with the frozen embryos.
Quoted from Yelobird:Last I checked which is rare JJP Did have a customer forum that Jen had setup. Not sure how a customer joins as I never found the need but curious if anyone here tried to communicate via the portal they already had designed specifically for their products and customers. Again I could be wrong but I believe that might be a better window to speak through. I know if I had a corporation an enthusiast forum is the last place I would field complaints. Might see if this option is open?
You are correct in that! It's an email joined, google based forum, from what I've seen of it. I'll get emails every day or so from users with issues, discussing them. Feels less structured than here, and also the lack of outside pinball enthusiasts being able to chime in, makes me feel that an outside lens isn't wanted. For me that feels like behavior and viewpoints might be a bit curtailed or stunted from users, on account of it being more private.
I think every manufacturer should be posting official threads on Pinside, for every game.
This would make direct consumer relations transparent, immediate, and reflective that these companies care with a direct hands on approach.
Popping into threads occassionally, isn't enough to satisfy and quell these issues. API does a pretty effective job on the forums, but every company still needs massive improvement. One person, could effectively manage such a position per company. Community management could be very, very easily handled.
Quoted from wesman:You are correct in that! It's an email joined, google based forum, from what I've seen of it. I'll get emails every day or so from users with issues, discussing them. Feels less structured than here, and also the lack of outside pinball enthusiasts being able to chime in, makes me feel that an outside lens isn't wanted. For me that feels like behavior and viewpoints might be a bit curtailed or stunted from users, on account of it being more private.
I think every manufacturer should be posting official threads on Pinside, for every game.
This would make direct consumer relations transparent, immediate, and reflective that these companies care with a direct hands on approach.
Popping into threads occassionally, isn't enough to satisfy and quell these issues. API does a pretty effective job on the forums, but every company still needs massive improvement. One person, could effectively manage such a position per company. Community management could be very, very easily handled.
I’m sorry but this really doesn’t make sense?? A percentage of you Want direct contact and communication with JJP personnel but you won’t join a group Purposely created to share your thoughts because it lacks Enthusiasts? You don’t need a room full of cheer leaders you Need the ear of the company! They created that very place?! Venting anger about why they are not listening or coming to our playground to be bullied seems fruitless to be honest. Yes API did this a Lot in the beginning as a start up with one game but they had to! You may have also noticed they Rarely do so any longer and Always refer you to communicate Directly to them for support. That is smart business!! Airing dirty laundry in a permanent open public forum is business suicide! Not telling you or others what to do but if you Believe you are not being fairly treated Go to the place they provided to communicate your concerns! Asking them to come fight in a forum parking lot is Never going to happen. I promise.
Quoted from Yelobird:Last I checked which is rare JJP Did have a customer forum that Jen had setup. Not sure how a customer joins as I never found the need but curious if anyone here tried to communicate via the portal they already had designed specifically for their products and customers. Again I could be wrong but I believe that might be a better window to speak through. I know if I had a corporation an enthusiast forum is the last place I would field complaints. Might see if this option is open?
I've had six weeks of e-mail and phone contact with them through their designated support representatives. That's a direct line of communication they've set up for customers to contact them, and I think it's fair to presume it's the best "window to speak through" to them. Still they've had no response, just silence.
I'm not posting here to speak to them. They know my issue and they know I'm looking for their advice on how to lay the chip on my playfield down. I've communicated with them directly and kept it private for 6 weeks giving them the opportunity to respond in any way, shape, or form. No response has been received, so I'm now sharing my experience here on this enthusiast forum so others can know about it and take or leave the information as they see fit.
Their lack of response isn't due to a lack of them receiving my communication through the right forum. It's due to them just not responding or, based on my conversations with them and Wesman's post (link below) mentioning comments very similar to what I experienced, it's due to them not having someone on staff who knows about playfield manufacturing processes and how to address playfield issues. The first reason is horrible customer service and the other reason means they're blindly relying on a supplier with no internal staff knowledge about a critical part they're purchasing for the machine they're building. Either way it's not a good look for a company.
Quoted from EaglePin:I've had six weeks of e-mail and phone contact with them through their designated support representatives. That's a direct line of communication they've set up for customers to contact them, and I think it's fair to presume it's the best "window to speak through" to them. Still they've had no response, just silence.
I'm not posting here to speak to them. They know my issue and they know I'm looking for their advice on how to lay the chip on my playfield down. I've communicated with them directly and kept it private for 6 weeks giving them the opportunity to respond in any way, shape, or form. No response has been received, so I'm now sharing my experience here on this enthusiast forum so others can know about it and take or leave the information as they see fit.
Their lack of response isn't due to a lack of them receiving my communication through the right forum. It's due to them just not responding or, based on my conversations with them and Wesman's post (link below) mentioning comments very similar to what I experienced, it's due to them not having someone on staff who knows about playfield manufacturing processes and how to address playfield issues. The first reason is horrible customer service and the other reason means they're blindly relying on a supplier with no internal staff knowledge about a critical part they're purchasing for the machine they're building. Either way it's not a good look for a company.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/potc-who-has-playfield-dimples-cracking-wear-around-star-posts-/page/33#post-5108978
Totally understand your anger in this situation but I again ask. We Know they have basically 2 people on support duty with probably 3000 emails per day for parts, support, sales, lunch, whatever so we can assume these things sadly are getting lost. I ask did you Try or Anyone to post letters as you have on Their google forum? That would be permanently logged on their system. Did you even try? As upset as you rightfully are I would think you would exhaust Every resource to be heard. Clearly this thread has proven We are the only ones reading. Consider it!
Quoted from Yelobird:I’m sorry but this really doesn’t make sense?? A percentage of you Want direct contact and communication with JJP personnel but you won’t join a group Purposely created to share your thoughts because it lacks Enthusiasts? You don’t need a room full of cheer leaders you Need the ear of the company! They created that very place?! Venting anger about why they are not listening or coming to our playground to be bullied seems fruitless to be honest. Yes API did this a Lot in the beginning as a start up with one game but they had to! You may have also noticed they Rarely do so any longer and Always refer you to communicate Directly to them for support. That is smart business!! Airing dirty laundry in a permanent open public forum is business suicide! Not telling you or others what to do but if you Believe you are not being fairly treated Go to the place they provided to communicate your concerns! Asking them to come fight in a forum parking lot is Never going to happen. I promise.
Umm. Err.... Uuuuuh.
Yanno, I've talked directly to just about everyone involved at JJP besides Jen, oddly enough.
Jack.
Frank.
Steve.
Lloyd.
Butch.
Eric.
Pat.
Shannon
And actually Jen in person too.
For a fairly small company, I've met maybe most of the folks in it, excluding Leonard and his assistant. (Probably the two people I need MOST to speak with.)
To varying degrees, I've spoken directly to the top six of those people, regarding issues I've had from day one, or weeks/months later.
If I can't make headway, and wish upon a star, to have issues fixed, exactly how can that occur then Dave?
Since I bought this game, I wake up and wonder if the situations with it will improve. Daily. I doubt the folks at JJP are feeling as concerned about my daily mood as I am, but I don't affect their daily lives.
But I should just suck it up, I guess.
That forum is less effective than this one, trust me.
That said, if I just suck it up, and acknowledge that pinball is even at delivery, inherently broke, than do you know what I'm going to do.....about pinball?
Not. Buy. Another.
I need pinball less than pinball needs me. But pinball does need me, and other satisfied buyers, rather than endless sycophants (By this I mean anyone, which seems like most owners, that tolerate this crap.) that accept issues that god forbid, they wouldn't from an auto manufacturer. Which, aside these games, no other major purchase I've made in my life, even comes close.
Quoted from Yelobird:Clearly this thread has proven We are the only ones reading.
If we've talked to them in person, via email or a phone call. They know.
Difference is, do they care?
I'd say no, if offering at cost plus shipping, is their best resolution to this playfield issue.
And if that is accurate. Again, that is okay. My money can go elsewhere.
Quoted from Yelobird:Totally understand your anger in this situation but I again ask. We Know they have basically 2 people on support duty with probably 3000 emails per day for parts, support, sales, lunch, whatever so we can assume these things sadly are getting lost. I ask did you Try or Anyone to post letters as you have on Their google forum? That would be permanently logged on their system. Did you even try? As upset as you rightfully are I would think you would exhaust Every resource to be heard. Clearly this thread has proven We are the only ones reading. Consider it!</block
/blockquote>I've spoken four times to their support people on the phone over 6 weeks. Following each of my calls they sent e-mails confirming our conversation and their understanding of the nature of the issue and my request for advice, and Jack was copied on their last couple e-mails to me also. My issue is recorded in their issue tracking system. No other path of communication is needed. It's logged plenty well permanently on their system.
A Google forum will not get any better results than that. And again, I don't know if JJP is reading this forum and I really don't care. I'm not posting here to reach them. I've already reached them over the past 6 weeks. I'm posting here to share my experience with other pinball owners who are on the forum and who could possibly be interested in knowing about it.
It seems like you're trying to find a reason to say I should have done something differently to get a response so you can make the company look like it isn't doing a bad job at service. Wrong. All the things I've listed above should be more than enough comfort to you that the right communication has reached the right people, with no response received. It also seems like you're disappointed that the company is being criticized here for not doing a good job serving it's customers. Why not be disappointed more in the company for providing bad service?
Quoted from Yelobird:Totally understand your anger in this situation but I again ask. We Know they have basically 2 people on support duty with probably 3000 emails per day for parts, support, sales, lunch, whatever so we can assume these things sadly are getting lost. I ask did you Try or Anyone to post letters as you have on Their google forum? That would be permanently logged on their system. Did you even try? As upset as you rightfully are I would think you would exhaust Every resource to be heard. Clearly this thread has proven We are the only ones reading. Consider it!
I've spoken four times to their support people on the phone over 6 weeks. Following each of my calls they sent e-mails confirming our conversation and their understanding of the nature of the issue and my request for advice, and Jack was copied on their last couple e-mails to me also. My issue is recorded in their issue tracking system. No other path of communication is needed. It's logged plenty well permanently on their system.
A Google forum will not get any better results than that. And again, I don't know if JJP is reading this forum and I really don't care. I'm not posting here to reach them. I've already reached them over the past 6 weeks. I'm posting here to share my experience with other pinball owners who are on the forum and who could possibly be interested in knowing about it.
It seems like you're trying to find a reason to say I should have done something differently to get a response so you can make the company look like it isn't doing a bad job at service. Wrong. All the things I've listed above should be more than enough comfort to you that the right communication has reached the right people, with no response received. It also seems like you're disappointed that the company is being criticized here for not doing a good job serving it's customers. Why not be disappointed more in the company for providing bad service?
Quoted from EaglePin:It seems like you're trying to find a reason to say I should have done something differently to get a response so you can make the company look like it isn't doing a bad job at service. Wrong. All the things I've listed above should be more than enough comfort to you that the right communication has reached the right people, with no response received. It also seems like you're disappointed that the company is being criticized here for not doing a good job serving it's customers. Why not be disappointed more in the company for providing bad service?
All good questions.
Quoted from wesman:Umm. Err.... Uuuuuh.
Yanno, I've talked directly to just about everyone involved at JJP besides Jen, oddly enough.
Jack.
Frank.
Steve.
Lloyd.
Butch.
Eric.
Pat.
Shannon
And actually Jen in person too.
For a fairly small company, I've met maybe most of the folks in it, excluding Leonard and his assistant. (Probably the two people I need MOST to speak with.)
To varying degrees, I've spoken directly to the top six of those people, regarding issues I've had from day one, or weeks/months later.
If I can't make headway, and wish upon a star, to have issues fixed, exactly how can that occur then Dave?
Since I bought this game, I wake up and wonder if the situations with it will improve. Daily. I doubt the folks at JJP are feeling as concerned about my daily mood as I am, but I don't affect their daily lives.
But I should just suck it up, I guess.
That forum is less effective than this one, trust me.
That said, if I just suck it up, and acknowledge that pinball is even at delivery, inherently broke, than do you know what I'm going to do.....about pinball?
Not. Buy. Another.
I need pinball less than pinball needs me. But pinball does need me, and other satisfied buyers, rather than endless sycophants (By this I mean anyone, which seems like most owners, that tolerate this crap.) that accept issues that god forbid, they wouldn't from an auto manufacturer. Which, aside these games, no other major purchase I've made in my life, even comes close.
Ok I guess I give? I simply asked if either of you Tried to use Their forum and you say “it’s less effective then this one” yet you Never Tried it! I do trade shows for a living. I meet Thousands of people and clients at each event. Do you know how many I remember that evening? None! You tried email and voicemails and it clearly didn’t work. I suggested another Viable option to help but that won’t ever work because you Assume it won’t work? I too have met every person in that factory and all were absolutely wonderful (except LTG! Lol) and guess what, I will bet not one of them remember me as I one of 10000 hands they shook that year. Nuff said, just wanted to Try and help. Time to call #LTG and see how Prada is doing.
Quoted from Yelobird:Totally understand your anger in this situation but I again ask. We Know they have basically 2 people on support duty with probably 3000 emails per day for parts, support, sales, lunch, whatever so we can assume these things sadly are getting lost. I ask did you Try or Anyone to post letters as you have on Their google forum? That would be permanently logged on their system. Did you even try? As upset as you rightfully are I would think you would exhaust Every resource to be heard. Clearly this thread has proven We are the only ones reading. Consider it!
You say they are getting 3,000 e-mails per day for customer service and we can assume they're often losing track of things? Wouldn't that just be another red flag indication that the company is not providing good quality and good support? I'm sure your 3,000 number was an exaggeration, but if you say we should assume they lose track of support requests because they get so many of them, then I think that would be a big indicator of bad quality (number of requests) and bad support (losing track of requests). You've essentially agreed with it. So I'd say again, why not be more disappointed in their effort and less disappointed in the people who share their experience after giving them a reasonable amount of time to respond?
Quoted from Yelobird:Ok I guess I give? I simply asked if either of you Tried to use Their forum and you say “it’s less effective then this one” yet you Never Tried it! I do trade shows for a living. I meet Thousands of people and clients at each event. Do you know how many I remember that evening? None! You tried email and voicemails and it clearly didn’t work. I suggested another Viable option to help but that won’t ever work because you Assume it won’t work? I too have met every person in that factory and all were absolutely wonderful (except LTG! Lol) and guess what, I will bet not one of them remember me as I one of 10000 hands they shook that year. Nuff said, just wanted to Try and help. Time to call #LTG and see how Prada is doing.
This has minimal engagement on the google forum, and less active users.
Screenshot_20190723-221103_Chrome (resized).jpgScreenshot_20190723-221157_Chrome (resized).jpgScreenshot_20190723-221202_Chrome (resized).jpgThis is all noise.
JJP knows there is an issue with the play fields, but is unwilling to go into their own pocket to rectify the problem. This leaves an unknown number of owners justifiably upset since they spent somewhere near $10,000 on their defective game.
Many of these owners have already spoken with Jack, Frank and other members of the JJP team and were dissatisfied with their responses or lack thereof.
Quoted from EaglePin:You say they are getting 3,000 e-mails per day for customer service and we can assume they're often losing track of things? Wouldn't that just be another red flag indication that the company is not providing good quality and good support? I'm sure your 3,000 number was an exaggeration, but if you say we should assume they lose track of support requests because they get so many of them, then I think that would be a big indicator of bad quality (number of requests) and bad support (losing track of requests). You've essentially agreed with it. So I'd say again, why not be more disappointed in their effort and less disappointed in the people who share their experience after giving them a reasonable amount of time to respond?
Ok I used made up numbers please don’t assume they had any valid point attached. I simply said that system didn’t work for you (that sucks) why not try another. Again just trying to help and have No company officiation! I know I would use any resource available if I was not happy. But that’s me I guess.
Read quite a bit of the above links and it certainly appears that while it took awhile Stearn, in the end, they stepped up. Sending out boxes for populated playfields swapping the parts onto new boards and shipping em back. Local dealers were even handling the removal and reinstall on behalf of their clients.
Quoted from Yelobird:Ok I guess I give? I simply asked if either of you Tried to use Their forum and you say “it’s less effective then this one” yet you Never Tried it! I do trade shows for a living. I meet Thousands of people and clients at each event. Do you know how many I remember that evening? None! You tried email and voicemails and it clearly didn’t work. I suggested another Viable option to help but that won’t ever work because you Assume it won’t work? I too have met every person in that factory and all were absolutely wonderful (except LTG! Lol) and guess what, I will bet not one of them remember me as I one of 10000 hands they shook that year. Nuff said, just wanted to Try and help. Time to call #LTG and see how Prada is doing.
Either you want work with JJP directly, or should get it. At least we can engage with you frequently on here Dave.
I remember reading, yearsssss ago, Jack used to post on here.
Quoted from wesman:Either you want work with JJP directly, or should get it. At least we can engage with you frequently on here Dave.
I remember reading, yearsssss ago, Jack used to post on here.
Funny you say that after posting your links to there forum. I counted Several company replies even from Jack himself! Want to know how many replies are in this thread from JJP? 0
Quoted from Yelobird:Ok I used made up numbers please don’t assume they had any valid point attached. I simply said that system didn’t work for you (that sucks) why not try another. Again just trying to help and have No company officiation! I know I would use any resource available if I was not happy. But that’s me I guess.
Generally I would have agreed with you.
I have tried to get in to that group for months. I emailed, Frank emailed, multiple times. Still can’t get someone to let me into the group.
In the end, JJP knows of the issue from multiple owners through multiple pathways at every level of the company. This unfortunately isn’t an issue of getting to the right person. Which is why I eventually gave up.
Quoted from mjruser:Read quite a bit of the above links and it certainly appears that while it took awhile Stearn, in the end, they stepped up. Sending out boxes for populated playfields swapping the parts onto new boards and shipping em back. Local dealers were even handling the removal and reinstall on behalf of their clients.
Stern sent me a replacement playfield for my AC/DC premium vault I had. That’s how you keep a customer.
Quoted from Yelobird:Funny you say that after posting your links to there forum. I counted Several company replies even from Jack himself! Want to know how many replies are in this thread from JJP? 0
Yes, one. About warranties. Two by Frank, one by Ted Estes.
Not volumes by any means.
This man Jack. And this other man....Frank. yes, their names........sound familiar. Because I've written to, and called them directly. 
They know.
My issue is NOT in them not being aware. It's in them NOT caring.
Quoted from wesman:They know.
My issue is NOT in them not being aware. It's in them NOT caring.
I’m guessing that they just don’t have the capital to properly handle this issue.
Quoted from MrBally:I see there are still a few members of the flock hanging on in the church of Jersey Jack.....
Not necessarily nor will I hate on something because someone else doesn’t enjoy it. Don’t believe in following only gets you to the back of the horse. I was however Trying to suggest another means to communicate which was determined a fail yet nobody tried it? I would do this for any company or individual but you can’t make anyone drink as they say. Guess we can just wait till Jack and Gary Stern decide to just go to the forum to work out complaints. Any day now...
Quoted from Yelobird:Ok I guess I give? I simply asked if either of you Tried to use Their forum and you say “it’s less effective then this one” yet you Never Tried it! I do trade shows for a living. I meet Thousands of people and clients at each event. Do you know how many I remember that evening? None! You tried email and voicemails and it clearly didn’t work. I suggested another Viable option to help but that won’t ever work because you Assume it won’t work? I too have met every person in that factory and all were absolutely wonderful (except LTG! Lol) and guess what, I will bet not one of them remember me as I one of 10000 hands they shook that year. Nuff said, just wanted to Try and help. Time to call #LTG and see how Prada is doing.
Jeesus, between you and Derek I don't know who is a bigger JJP zealot.
So, yeah. *I* tried it. I emailed Jen as soon as I found out about it. Btw... how do you find out about it? Is it listed on their site? Did they announce to their customers? Was it posted here? Classic. What a professional communication device in this day and age, a RESTRICTED google group. This is fucking ridiculous the pedestal you are trying to stand on.
I was told I was added. I've had a Google account for something like 20 years, I don't know. I participate in several Google based forums/groups without issue. When I try to access the JJP Google Group I get an "access denied" error. I've replied to Jen with this information, she said I was added and she knew of no issue that would prevent me from joining. Now what?
Posting to the most centralized place dedicated to your product and the community that supports you is the LEAST you can do as a business where enthusiasts make up a majority of the interest in your product. It's absolutely short sighted and irresponsible for a business not to use one of the easiest and cheapest means of advertisement and communication about their products. Several of their employees post here under the title of their business name, is that not sanctioned? I'd be surprised if pinside community and communication isn't a very big known topic in their office.
Since you brought this up, how many other ways does JJP communicate with customers? I've said it before, I signed up for their email list countless times, never once I have received one email from their email list. I run a web hosting company, I've been managing internet services for over 25 years, I run my own spam filtering service, I would know if an email never made it to me. I've used their support form numerous times, even before I bought my first JJP, and never once received a response. How do you find out about "kit" releases, playfield offers, code updates? Tell me where this all gets announced please, I'd like to join.
I've sent Frank many emails on various issues, with nothing but utter politeness and information, asking for NOTHING. Almost never do I get a reply. Hey, my chest bracket cracked... you think that would get a reply.
Stephen and Lloyd have been absolutely fanatical in their support. Shannan is a godsend. Frank is obviously stuck in the middle and I am sure is doing a heck of a job given the position he is in. No one here, I would wager, wants anything bad for JJP nor are there personal issues with employees or owners. There is a business to customer issue.
Your head is in the sand.
--- And, you're not helping JJP in any way by rebuking post after post of real owners who have problems.
Quoted from harryhoudini:Jeesus, between you and Derek I don't know who is a bigger JJP zealot.
So, yeah. *I* tried it. I emailed Jen as soon as I found out about it. Btw... how do you find out about it? Is it listed on their site? Did they announce to their customers? Was it posted here? Classic. What a professional communication device in this day and age, a RESTRICTED google group. This is fucking ridiculous the pedestal you are trying to stand on.
I was told I was added. I've had a Google account for something like 20 years, I don't know. I participate in several Google based forums/groups without issue. When I try to access the JJP Google Group I get an "access denied" error. I've replied to Jen with this information, she said I was added and she knew of no issue that would prevent me from joining. Now what?
Posting to the most centralized place dedicated to your product and the community that supports you is the LEAST you can do as a business where enthusiasts make up a majority of the interest in your product. It's absolutely short sighted and irresponsible for a business not to use one of the easiest and cheapest means of advertisement and communication about their products. Several of their employees post here under the title of their business name, is that not sanctioned? I'd be surprised if pinside community and communication isn't a very big known topic in their office.
Since you brought this up, how many other ways does JJP communicate with customers? I've said it before, I signed up for their email list countless times, never once I have received one email from their email list. I run a web hosting company, I've been managing internet services for over 25 years, I run my own spam filtering service, I would know if an email never made it to me. I've used their support form numerous times, even before I bought my first JJP, and never once received a response. How do you find out about "kit" releases, playfield offers, code updates? Tell me where this all gets announced please, I'd like to join.
I've sent Frank many emails on various issues, with nothing but utter politeness and information, asking for NOTHING. Almost never do I get a reply. Hey, my chest bracket cracked... you think that would get a reply.
Stephen and Lloyd have been absolutely fanatical in their support. Shannan is a godsend. Frank is obviously stuck in the middle and I am sure is doing a heck of a job given the position he is in. No one here, I would wager, wants anything bad for JJP nor are there personal issues with employees or owners. There is a business to customer issue.
Your head is in the sand.
I don’t know you man, but I know how stressful this is. It can actually hurt your health. I was so upset about my AC/DC, but it was resolved correctly. I seriously hope you the best from western Massachusetts.
Quoted from Yelobird:Not necessarily nor will I hate on something because someone else doesn’t enjoy it. Don’t believe in following only gets you to the back of the horse. I was however Trying to suggest another means to communicate which was determined a fail yet nobody tried it? I would do this for any company or individual but you can’t make anyone drink as they say. Guess we can just wait till Jack and Gary Stern decide to just go to the forum to work out complaints. Any day now...
Who's hating on any of these products??? We've spent nearly ten grand on at least one of their games. Man, I'd LOVE someone to hate me in such a fashion.....
From what seems to be public knowledge Gary and Jack aren't even the owners of either company any longer.
Lemme talk to Leonard Abess Jr. I've heard he's very relatable from articles I've read. He could help, maybe...?
Quoted from harryhoudini:Jeesus, between you and Derek I don't know who is a bigger JJP zealot.
So, yeah. *I* tried it. I emailed Jen as soon as I found out about it. Btw... how do you find out about it? Is it listed on their site? Did they announce to their customers? Was it posted here? Classic. What a professional communication device in this day and age, a RESTRICTED google group. This is fucking ridiculous the pedestal you are trying to stand on.
I was told I was added. I've had a Google account for something like 20 years, I don't know. I participate in several Google based forums/groups without issue. When I try to access the JJP Google Group I get an "access denied" error. I've replied to Jen with this information, she said I was added and she knew of no issue that would prevent me from joining. Now what?
Posting to the most centralized place dedicated to your product and the community that supports you is the LEAST you can do as a business where enthusiasts make up a majority of the interest in your product. It's absolutely short sighted and irresponsible for a business not to use one of the easiest and cheapest means of advertisement and communication about their products. Several of their employees post here under the title of their business name, is that not sanctioned? I'd be surprised if pinside community and communication isn't a very big known topic in their office.
Since you brought this up, how many other ways does JJP communicate with customers? I've said it before, I signed up for their email list countless times, never once I have received one email from their email list. I run a web hosting company, I've been managing internet services for over 25 years, I run my own spam filtering service, I would know if an email never made it to me. I've used their support form numerous times, even before I bought my first JJP, and never once received a response. How do you find out about "kit" releases, playfield offers, code updates? Tell me where this all gets announced please, I'd like to join.
I've sent Frank many emails on various issues, with nothing but utter politeness and information, asking for NOTHING. Almost never do I get a reply. Hey, my chest bracket cracked... you think that would get a reply.
Stephen and Lloyd have been absolutely fanatical in their support. Shannan is a godsend. Frank is obviously stuck in the middle and I am sure is doing a heck of a job given the position he is in. No one here, I would wager, wants anything bad for JJP nor are there personal issues with employees or owners. There is a business to customer issue.
Your head is in the sand.
Easy HH not sure where you come across slamming on me? You must be kidding. I offered a fricken solution of which as Wesman posted the screen shot Who would have known it actually contained the info your complaining about! Amazing. I offered a Suggestion as that’s what people do to Help others. If with all your internet savvy you couldn’t get in how does that challenge my suggestion? Did I not let you in? I guess that’s what a Zealot would do but I honestly don’t care if I am helping you. Others still enjoy this hobby as much as I do and I can help Them I will. Throw your knives at someone that cares honestly. You are so right, I see OEMs and management from all the major pinball companies here daily. Oh wait, no we don’t. Don’t like my help, ignore it. I am here for others as I have been for 20 years and many like yourself have come along to knock people and there interests down. Hasn’t bothered me yet and those that I can help I will always try. Your an interesting person for sure.
Quoted from Yelobird:Guess we can just wait till Jack and Gary Stern decide to just go to the forum to work out complaints. Any day now...
I mentioned, Jack used to post on here, early on in the WoZ days. I'd wager when he needed direct support while building the brand.
Now, not so much. He's got bigger fish to fry I guess. I know he's traveling a shit ton internationally and domestically to promote Wonka.
Talking on here directly with customers that have issues is great promotion too!
Quoted from wesman:I mentioned, Jack used to post on here, early on in the WoZ days. I'd wager when he needed direct support while building the brand.
Now, not so much. He's got bigger fish to fry I guess. I know he's traveling a shit ton internationally and domestically to promote Wonka.
Talking on here directly with customers that have issues is great promotion too!
Yeah he was definitely the Ron Popeal of sales back then. Last I heard though he wasn’t the company decision maker any longer mostly the name and spokesmen for sales? Curious for you, did you ever reach out to you distributor? The ones I work with (granted I don’t beat them with every concern) helped me instantly with resolutions and taking care of the red tape along with always keeping me updated on any purchased game change or update. Just hope you gave all resources a try. Some work, some don’t at times.
I’m a JJP zealot for trying to get people to put down the pitchforks and use some logic, heh. OK. So be it.
Another pinball friend emailed me today and said I’ll never win over the pinside lynch mob. He’s right.
This thread is the equivalent of a political rally, bunch of people shouting loudly without using their heads.
Quoted from Yelobird:Easy HH not sure where you come across slamming on me? You must be kidding. I offered a fricken solution of which as Wesman posted the screen shot Who would have known it actually contained the info your complaining about! Amazing. I offered a Suggestion as that’s what people do to Help others. If with all your internet savvy you couldn’t get in how does that challenge my suggestion? Did I not let you in? I guess that’s what a Zealot would do but I honestly don’t care if I am helping you. Others still enjoy this hobby as much as I do and I can help Them I will. Throw your knives at someone that cares honestly. You are so right, I see OEMs and management from all the major pinball companies here daily. Oh wait, no we don’t. Don’t like my help, ignore it. I am here for others as I have been for 20 years and many like yourself have come along to knock people and there interests down. Hasn’t bothered me yet and those that I can help I will always try. Your an interesting person for sure.
Dude, you insinuated several times that people aren't contacting JJP in an appropriate manner or there are better ways. You pushed on these two guys that they never did what you said. Your suggestion and JJP's insistence on a PRIVATE Google group method of communication is bullshit. But yet, I clearly tried to use that method of communication and their system does not work. You said you didn't even try it, how can you even know if that is a better method? It'd double speak and gaslighting at it's finest. Everyone else is wacky.
You keep crapping on this thread and others, rebuking posts over and over, grandstanding for JJP as if you worked for them. You make underhanded, half hearted statements as if you made a joke and really you punch little holes at posts and ideas. You keep getting downvoted, yet it's really nothing you are doing? I'm done playing with kid gloves, I was more than understanding, open, questioning and looking for opinions in all of my threads. I'm no expert, I'm no one special but truly you have a special place in your heart for JJP and everyone is wrong.
It started early on:
Still scratch my head every time I read this. ANYTHING screwed down to the playfied will leave a dent. Anything! I have restored many playfields and Every post, screw, guide, you name it leaves an imprint! Even the ball. As Cheshirefilms did, a simple metal washer should have been installed from day 1 as is used in many post locations and Hundreds of other games. Nothing new really. This all started with a hole punch type failed molded post. I did the same as Cheshirefilm and its perfect and will be for Many years for .08 cents.
Yup, nothing to see here... business as usual, playfields chip to the wood quite often because that darn ball and those darn washers.
---
I am NOT making fun but I must say some of you spend a lot of time analyzing your playfield. lol. I must be a lazy pinball player, unless the spinning disk falls through the playfield and the ball rolls in I play it as it is and never notice a thing. Again, NOT saying thats bad just making fun of the fact I must be really lazy not looking for scratches etc.
Yeah, people are too anal, you aren't, it's funny, tee hee hee.
---
Your comment to the playfield offer from JJP was:
Works for me! I like a deal anytime.
This isn't a deal, dude. This is a manufacturing defect that they are charging us to fix. No one is giving you a deal. It's a deal if you DON'T have problems. And if you didn't then you shouldn't have gotten a playfield. So which is it?
Let's have some transparency here. Did you have chipping? Because you said you didn't and this playfield offer is only for those who have chipping.
Did you pay full price for all of the JJP games you own?
Do you get special access to JJP games before they are delivered?
I mean come on, it's pretty damn clear you aren't a neutral party in the slightest.
------
To each there own I take No side just seems like a bit of a tough threat.
Really? No side? Laughable.
------
Again I could be wrong but I believe that might be a better window to speak through.
Yeah dude, you're wrong. Absolutely, 100% dead wrong.
Quoted from wesman:Now, not so much. He's got bigger fish to fry I guess. I know he's traveling a shit ton internationally and domestically to promote Wonka. Talking on here directly with customers that have issues is great promotion too!
Some of you guys are new here, so I'll excuse you. If you had any idea how JJP, Stern and Spooky employees were treated when they were on here you would understand why they no longer contribute. Believe me, it has nothing to with being too busy.
Quoted from zaphX:I’m a JJP zealot for trying to get people to put down the pitchforks and use some logic, heh. OK. So be it.
Another pinball friend emailed me today and said I’ll never win over the pinside lynch mob. He’s right.
This thread is the equivalent of a political rally, bunch of people shouting loudly without using their heads.
Here's logic for you.
You buy a car. Let's even say you bought it off lease after it was a year old. It turns out "shit! the manufacturer made a mistake" and now something is wrong. Not a safety concern, no.. just something that shouldn't happen to a 1 year old car. Paint flakes a bit here, wheel chrome isn't 100%, whatever. But no worries, the car manufacturer issues a recall or fix and you are NOTIFIED and they fix it for free, you just bring it in. Guess what, they probably also wash your car for you and smile and give you some coffee and a treat.
Fuck dude. Logic? Logic isn't paying $600 to be given the pleasure of replacing your own playfield for a issue you didn't cause on a game that is less than a year old.
There is no sanity to the argument that the customer is due to pay for this issue. None.
Lynch mob. Political rally. Not thinking with our heads. Go piss around in another thread.
Quoted from Yelobird:Yeah he was definitely the Ron Popeal of sales back then. Last I heard though he wasn’t the company decision maker any longer mostly the name and spokesmen for sales? Curious for you, did you ever reach out to you distributor? The ones I work with (granted I don’t beat them with every concern) helped me instantly with resolutions and taking care of the red tape along with always keeping me updated on any purchased game change or update. Just hope you gave all resources a try. Some work, some don’t at times.
Giving you my personal dirty details in a PM when I get home here from work.......and have a beer. 
Quoted from zaphX:I’m a JJP zealot for trying to get people to put down the pitchforks and use some logic, heh. OK. So be it.
Another pinball friend emailed me today and said I’ll never win over the pinside lynch mob. He’s right.
This thread is the equivalent of a political rally, bunch of people shouting loudly without using their heads.
Nah, it's not that Derek. It's just wanting to be made whole. 10K toy with defects, doesn't make people happy. Not when hands are sat on, calls never returned, emails not replied to.
But.....if I wanted to buy another game!
Quoted from solarvalue:Some of you guys are new here, so I'll excuse you. If you had any idea how JJP, Stern and Spooky employees were treated when they were on here you would understand why they no longer contribute. Believe me, it has nothing to with being too busy.
I am newer here, and I do recall some messages that weren't amiable towards Jack. But I can only speak for myself, and how I ideally try to relate with others, directly or indirectly. But being here, being at shows, all of that is necessary, and that's part of a public brand and business. Not everything is ideal. I know that now as a pinhead.
Quoted from harryhoudini:Dude, you insinuated several times that people aren't contacting JJP in an appropriate manner or there are better ways. You pushed on these two guys that they never did what you said. Your suggestion and JJP's insistence on a PRIVATE Google group method of communication is bullshit. But yet, I clearly tried to use that method of communication and their system does not work. You said you didn't even try it, how can you even know if that is a better method? It'd double speak and gaslighting at it's finest. Everyone else is wacky.
You keep crapping on this thread and others, rebuking posts over and over, grandstanding for JJP as if you worked for them. You make underhanded, half hearted statements as if you made a joke and really you punch little holes at posts and ideas. You keep getting downvoted, yet it's really nothing you are doing? I'm done playing with kid gloves, I was more than understanding, open, questioning and looking for opinions in all of my threads. I'm no expert, I'm no one special but truly you have a special place in your heart for JJP and everyone is wrong.
It started early on:Yup, nothing to see here... business as usual, playfields chip to the wood quite often because that darn ball and those darn washers.
---Yeah, people are too anal, you aren't, it's funny, tee hee hee.
---
Your comment to the playfield offer from JJP was:This isn't a deal, dude. This is a manufacturing defect that they are charging us to fix. No one is giving you a deal. It's a deal if you DON'T have problems. And if you didn't then you shouldn't have gotten a playfield. So which is it?
Let's have some transparency here. Did you have chipping? Because you said you didn't and this playfield offer is only for those who have chipping.
Did you pay full price for all of the JJP games you own?
Do you get special access to JJP games before they are delivered?
I mean come on, it's pretty damn clear you aren't a neutral party in the slightest.
------Really? No side? Laughable.
------Yeah dude, you're wrong. Absolutely, 100% dead wrong.
Honestly your not worth arguing with HH. Not one thing you committed to posting shows any value. I will say however no I don’t work for JJP, I’m not Jack, and unlike you I did buy All of my games at full price like everyone and without any favoritism. Granted I don’t go out of my way to crap on everyone so I guess they treated me a bit nicer? Finally if you choose feel free to try actually Reading what I wrote. I Never said Anyone didn’t respond correctly. I Said sadly that system didn’t work and suggested another option. But as usual you on;y wish to read and hear what YOU believe but as I stated I really could care less what You believe honesty! Lol. You can be right, but that doesn’t make everyone Wrong.
Quoted from Yelobird:Honestly your not worth arguing with HH. Not one thing you committed to posting shows any value. I will say however no I don’t work for JJP, I’m not Jack, and unlike you I did buy All of my games at full price like everyone and without any favoritism. Granted I don’t go out of my way to crap on everyone so I guess they treated me a bit nicer? Finally if you choose feel free to try actually Reading what I wrote. I Never said Anyone didn’t respond correctly. I Said sadly that system didn’t work and suggested another option. But as usual you on;y wish to read and hear what YOU believe but as I stated I really could care less what You believe honesty! Lol. You can be right, but that doesn’t make everyone Wrong.
So did you have chipping?
Quoted from solarvalue:Some of you guys are new here, so I'll excuse you. If you had any idea how JJP, Stern and Spooky employees were treated when they were on here you would understand why they no longer contribute. Believe me, it has nothing to with being too busy.
Ain’t that the truth. Haha I remember stern had a dedicated media guy for a while, Jared I think. He was literally run off in 9 months from customers badgering him, some legit, but mostly trivial BS. It’s a nice thought, but manufacturers realized a while ago responding on these forums would basically require a masochist...
Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
Vernon, BC
Dubai
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
