(Topic ID: 242867)

PoTC - Who has playfield cracking & wear around sling posts?


By harryhoudini

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 2,984 posts
  • 217 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 days ago by MarZ_78
  • Topic is favorited by 63 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic poll

“What kind of issues are you seeing?”

  • I have visible dimples but no chipping 45 votes
    22%
  • I can see chipping but haven't done anything yet 67 votes
    33%
  • I can see chipping and installed mylar, washer and/or larger star post 30 votes
    15%
  • My playfield looks fine (but I haven't removed the star posts) 31 votes
    15%
  • I removed the star posts and my playfield looks fine 15 votes
    7%
  • My game had clear washers installed from the factory 15 votes
    7%

(Multiple choice - 203 votes by 191 Pinsiders)

Topic Gallery

There have been 414 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

8a08956226ce33ab4cbce84ac85256fac4d2c495 (resized).jpg
272de6fede9fee8a8547778ad012df344b85326e (resized).jpg
20200319_164738 (resized).jpg
AEF37959-C604-4A07-B193-2416A6A62929 (resized).jpeg
F10537D7-D970-4859-B5C9-CF482DF29BFA (resized).jpeg
IMG_20200320_103742 (resized).jpg
IMG_20200320_101453 (resized).jpg
917EEAC5-4AC1-4204-BDA8-5497FFCB4BAC (resized).jpeg
83458836-4863-4833-8D88-F5A9E65F9517 (resized).jpeg
IMG_3627 (resized).jpeg
20200127_171934 (resized).jpg
Shocked.gif
pasted_image (resized).png
potc2_5234 (resized).jpg
3FC99A16-7187-44B6-811B-16DD827ABC65 (resized).jpeg
20200125_090027 (resized).jpg

Topic index (key posts)

3 key posts have been marked in this topic (Show topic index)

There are 2984 posts in this topic. You are on page 32 of 60.
#1551 10 months ago
Quoted from dts:

Is a fair solution simply the cost of the playfield, perhaps discounted further by Mirco? Hate to see JJP lose any more money. I understand they are half off at this point, but perhaps the cost is less.

Also, this is not a JJP-only issue. It's happening with other vendors as well.

#1552 10 months ago

Don’t recall anyone demanding or asking for a populated PF for free.

$550 is too much cash to ask for what appears to be another flawed PF. One member here reported his replacement not passing the nail or scratch test and there was someone else who reported some other type of odd blemish.

At $550 they aren’t losing any money at all, the risk is all on the end user which IS NOT a fair solution.

#1553 10 months ago
Quoted from Reznnate:

Also, this is not a JJP-only issue. It's happening with other vendors as well.

True and historically Stern has been very good about this. I know there are reports of Beatles having issues but the few I’ve come across didn’t have it at the time.

Only really widespread issue that I can personally comment on is with GB, they had the severe dimpling and ghosted insert issue. Stern was very good about taking care of people on that one.

TNA had a bit of an issue recently although much more isolated and they seemed to take better care of their customers on that.

#1554 10 months ago

Personally, I don’t know about you all... I didn’t pay an exorbitant amount of money for what is touted as the “Bentley” of pinball machines to then be told I need to fork over 550.00 for a new playfield (and you need t nuts, Mylar etc) 675 out the door because they are shipping games with playfield defects.

This is not a resolution, it’s a suggested purchase on behalf of JJP. A free playfield is a resolution.

#1555 10 months ago

About those playfields and the fingernail test - if I were to get one (I haven't ordered one yet, but might) I'd store it somewhere flat for a year or more. Let it cure and cure and cure some more.

#1556 10 months ago
Quoted from Reznnate:

Also, this is not a JJP-only issue. It's happening with other vendors as well.

And that is exactly why I'm against torches and pitchforks for JJP. They got caught in this like everyone did, and they are at least providing a workaround and replacement program.

#1557 10 months ago

I do agree with both of you... but I think it’s most prominent on JJP? My hope is they take the lead on this and reconcile with the playfield manufacturer, thus helping us all. Don’t get me wrong I love my JJP’s...

#1558 10 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Apologies, it must have been someone else demanding that in the thread and I lumped it in erroneously.
I genuinely want to know, what IS a fair solution in your view? What would satisfy you?

Replacement playfield, no cost. Right? Just put us back to the position we would have been in had the playfield been installed properly. This is FAR from that position, someone has to do the install, but at least that gives the owners a playfield to install or sell with the machine that doesn't have a manufacturing defect.

If JJP really wanted to secure customers and score points with the community they would offer a discount on another machine. I'm not buying Wonka even though my reservation came up. But, I would probably be enticed if I got a playfield and a discount. I'd know that the manufacturer I support the most is willing to stand by their products when a mistake is made. Making me pay for their mistake is not a solution.

JJP is almost 100% out nothing by selling discounted playfields. You think they cost more than $550?

10
#1559 10 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

- The existing offer for a discounted playfield is a reasonable compromise

For me personally, this doesn't feel reasonable, solution wise.

Let's guess that these playfields cost JJP $400-500. If damage has occurred with normal use, well under a year of use, that definitely feels like an issue that should be covered under warranty. That's what a warranty exists for.

At the very least, with signs of ripples/chips around any posts, the cost for JJP should be halved. As in the customer pays $200-250, and receives free shipping. If that was the initial option, and expressed clearly, say via a twitter feed, facebook post, email newsletter, notifying all owners of said issue, and how customers could repair damage via a claim, then I feel many would be far less irked.

For damages past chipping or ripples, a replacement playfield, unpopulated, could be offered.

Quoted from zaphX:

And that is exactly why I'm against torches and pitchforks for JJP. They got caught in this like everyone did, and they are at least providing a workaround and replacement program.

I think the issue is a lack of transparency on this issue to begin with, customers having to notify JJP after many months of this occurring, and then no contact directly from JJP to their customers in attempts to resolve this issue.

With minor parts, JJP is very responsive. With this issue, unless you make consecutive calls, and emails, nothing is changing on the customer's end, and that's incredibly disheartening and disappointing as a current, and wishing to be future customer.

I think that's pretty rationally expressed, no?

#1560 10 months ago
Quoted from Reznnate:

Also, this is not a JJP-only issue. It's happening with other vendors as well.

Although Jack is now denying it, I am 100% positive he told me on the phone that it was a manufacturing mistake a NOT Mirco's problem. I would stand by this under any scrutiny. Maybe he misspoke, tried to placate me, is protecting Mirco, I don't know but we all know this is not just a JJP manufacturing problem. However, Jack is making that the case, at least in his call to me as they have announced nothing as to the root cause, and so if Jack says that is the issue I have to take him at his word. I don't think that is the case, I have stated it several times.

It is sad for other vendors to have this issue, but the Mirco issue is larger than JJP. There is another thread I started with other Mirco playfield issues and poor customer service. Let JJP and Mirco work this out, it's not our burden to haul.

#1561 10 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

And that is exactly why I'm against torches and pitchforks for JJP. They got caught in this like everyone did, and they are at least providing a workaround and replacement program.

Here lies the problem with this and I DID have a discussion with Frank about this very subject.

Nobody will say it’s 100% JJP factory assembly issue, Mirco won’t say it’s not their clear coat or art adhesion process.

What happens when the SOB is stored away for 10 years and then the new PF suffers the same fate... chips, ripples, art literally peeling off the wood like a freakin onion?

Let’s just say there was the sound of crickets on the phone line when I asked that followed by....would a good discount on new machine interest me?

I kid you not, all while on my family vacation!

#1562 10 months ago
Quoted from wesman:

For me personally, this doesn't feel reasonable, solution wise.
Let's guess that these playfields cost JJP $400-500. If damage has occurred with normal use, well under a year of use, that definitely feels like an issue that should be covered under warranty. That's what a warranty exists for.
At the very least, with signs of ripples/chips around any posts, the cost for JJP should be halved. As in the customer pays $200-250, and receives free shipping. If that was the initial option, and expressed clearly, say via a twitter feed, facebook post, email newsletter, notifying all owners of said issue, and how customers could repair damage via a claim, then I feel many would be far less irked.
For damages past chipping or ripples, a replacement playfield, unpopulated, could be offered.

I think the issue is a lack of transparency on this issue to begin with, customers having to notify JJP after many months of this occurring, and then no contact directly from JJP to their customers in attempts to resolve this issue.
With minor parts, JJP is very responsive. With this issue, unless you make consecutive calls, and emails, nothing is changing on the customer's end, and that's incredibly disheartening and disappointing as a current, and wishing to be future customer.
I think that's pretty rationally expressed, no?

I think so, I told Frank $250 is what I think is fair. It mitigates their cost somewhat and minimizes my additional outlay for something with zero guarantee or warranty down the line.

$550 plus shipping and then install time/cost at some point is simply too much on the end user.

#1563 10 months ago

If we want to get semantic, I see this as a JJP responsibility, not totally sure its a JJP manufacturing issue. Like other industries, in which companies use other distributors for parts for their final product, if a part fails... and is under warranty, it’s typically replaced, recalled, reconciled... right? Why is this any different.

This is simply bad customer service, maybe JJP needs to implement “JJP care” like apple care with specific documentation on coverage... I had no clue if I’m a second buyer the warranty is void?!

#1564 10 months ago

Can't say when this was last updated (it's named updated..) but here are the basic stipulations:

http://marketing.jerseyjackpinball.com/general/jjp_warranty-updated.pdf

1. The JJP "Bumper to Post" Limited Warranty covers every part in your new Jersey Jack Pinball Machine for a period of 30 days from the date of delivery of the Machine to its original Purchaser.

2. Mostly electronic boards and screen are covered for 6mo/1yr if routed or not.

3. What does JJP do? Send you the part exclusive of shipping charges (you pay).

4. In order to be eligible for coverage you must register your JJP Machine within 5 days of delivery

There are caveats, especially with state laws and implied warranties, which I've been reading about, but you get the gist.

SO.... unless you registered the game within 5 days of delivery, are the original owner AND it's within 30 days of delivery none of us are covered under the warranty for the playfield or non-electronic parts.

#1565 10 months ago

WOW, that is kinda funny actually

#1566 10 months ago

I think at some point it is critical to know the true cause of the damage.

I don’t buy the over tightening of posts with poor quality razor blade edges. Is this a contributing issue? You bet.

That doesn’t address the several of us who have chipping at the out and inlane movable post holes and other areas where these sharp posts don’t exist.

Something else is causing the art and clear to break free awfully easily compared to years and years of play on other machines.

If it is a bad batch from Mirco I would think JJP has to have something in their contract with Mirco to address this without it financially hurting JJP

#1567 10 months ago

I probably jump to conclusions more than I should, but I think it's pretty evident that the clear coat is soft and/or there is a problem with the printing or finishing process. The narrow posts with the sharp edge caused the defective playfield to chip and crack around those specific posts while other posts mainly pool up the clear because they are not sharp. However, we now see more evidence of the pooled clear cracking on these other posts, signifying that it is likely this issue will continue to get worse. Moved posts look horrible (I just did this on mine). Tying to find a flat screw that I can fit in the holes and cover them up. If not, maybe a plastic insert.

It's both the fault of JJP and Mirco. JJP is responsible to the owners, we did not buy from Mirco. JJP wants to take responsibility. Mirco is losing confidence by not addressing any issue on their end.

#1568 10 months ago

Hello All,

I read more of this thread than I care to admit, looks like a soft modern playfield and some shotty QC.

I question everyone from the top down that's involved in the manufacturing process at JJP! I don't think any idiot would install a post that's effectively a knife-edge onto their playfield. If all of these posts were like that it should have been rejected by management if it was only a few then the assembly folks should have been tossing them into the trash. I just played a WW SE this weekend and still want one, but the soft playfield was apparent on it after only two weeks on the floor (in a busy arcade) it had dimpling the same as reported on newer Stern games (mine included).

I just very carefully inspected my IM as the top posts on the slingshots are a thin one like this one and I don't see any wrinkling or chipping anywhere. So I think Mirco is partly to blame.

Pirates is still only a wish for me so I won't comment on what a fair solution is, but I certainly feel for you all as I know I'd be upset to find that post digging into a playfield of mine. Hopefully, some of the mitigation ideas will end up working out and that you can continue to enjoy what otherwise appears to be a standout game!

Regards,
Mike
never (resized).jpeg

#1569 10 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:Can't say when this was last updated (it's named updated..) but here are the basic stipulations:
http://marketing.jerseyjackpinball.com/general/jjp_warranty-updated.pdf
1. The JJP "Bumper to Post" Limited Warranty covers every part in your new Jersey Jack Pinball Machine for a period of 30 days from the date of delivery of the Machine to its original Purchaser.
2. Mostly electronic boards and screen are covered for 6mo/1yr if routed or not.
3. What does JJP do? Send you the part exclusive of shipping charges (you pay).
4. In order to be eligible for coverage you must register your JJP Machine within 5 days of delivery
There are caveats, especially with state laws and implied warranties, which I've been reading about, but you get the gist.
SO.... unless you registered the game within 5 days of delivery, are the original owner AND it's within 30 days of delivery none of us are covered under the warranty for the playfield or non-electronic parts.

Seems reasonable on a 10K purchase.

#1570 10 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

The narrow posts with the sharp edge caused the defective playfield to chip and crack around those specific posts while other posts mainly pool up the clear because they are not sharp.

I'd have to think no matter what posts they use, massive amounts of vibration and force from playing, combined with this soft clear, are creating this issue on any and every point of impact on this playfield.

#1571 10 months ago
Quoted from mjruser:

Hello All,
I read more of this thread than I care to admit, looks like a soft modern playfield and some shotty QC.
I question everyone from the top down that's involved in the manufacturing process at JJP! I don't think any idiot would install a post that's effectively a knife-edge onto their playfield. If all of these posts were like that it should have been rejected by management if it was only a few then the assembly folks should have been tossing them into the trash. I just played a WW SE this weekend and still want one, but the soft playfield was apparent on it after only two weeks on the floor (in a busy arcade) it had dimpling the same as reported on newer Stern games (mine included).
I just very carefully inspected my IM as the top posts on the slingshots are a thin one like this one and I don't see any wrinkling or chipping anywhere. So I think Mirco is partly to blame.
Pirates is still only a wish for me so I won't comment on what a fair solution is, but I certainly feel for you all as I know I'd be upset to find that post digging into a playfield of mine. Hopefully, some of the mitigation ideas will end up working out and that you can continue to enjoy what otherwise appears to be a standout game!
Regards,
Mike
[quoted image]

That is my post pictured there and believe it or not, they were all like that except 1 single post.

The Wonka I played was less than two weeks old and just about every single post star or skinny was sunken into the clear with varying degrees of rippling.

#1572 10 months ago
Quoted from Psw757:

That is my post pictured there and believe it or not, they were all like that except 1 single post.

The Wonka I played was less than two weeks old and just about every single post star or skinny was sunken into the clear with varying degrees of rippling.

That's pretty upsetting to hear that most all of your posts looked like that! So management approved the parts and the monkeys installed them without question.

Darn.

#1573 10 months ago
Quoted from Psw757:

That is my post pictured there and believe it or not, they were all like that except 1 single post.
The Wonka I played was less than two weeks old and just about every single post star or skinny was sunken into the clear with varying degrees of rippling.

Ugh....

I do wonder where things will be in months, IF Wonka has the same issues.

At that point, JJP would very much need to publicly address this, as then you'd have Pirates, Wonka, and future title owners concerned.

If this is solely a Pirates issue, I don't think much movement past what's been offered, will occur.

#1574 10 months ago

My concern is what my playfield will look like in the near future. I have rippling all over not just posts. Will these get worse with major chipping sooner or later? I did buy the CE due to the fact I plan on keeping it in excellent condition for a very long time. I do play my machines and expect normal wear and even dimples but this is something different.

#1575 10 months ago

Here's an album I put together of only my machine to share with Jack.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/CVuJheFjQJhTMD5A9

These two are my favorite. But check out the album, sort of like a "greatest hits" of crap I had to fix. But sure, I should buy another playfield

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

#1576 10 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Here's an album I put together of only my machine to share with Jack.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/CVuJheFjQJhTMD5A9
These two are my favorite. But check out the album, sort of like a "greatest hits" of crap I had to fix. But sure, I should buy another playfield
[quoted image][quoted image]

“Have we got a deal for you - Spend another $500 with us for a new play field and then pay someone to populate the new play field and install it. How do you like them apples?”

#1577 10 months ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

“Have we got a deal for you - Spend another $500 with us for a new play field and then pay someone to populate the new play field and install it. How do you like them apples?”

Apples? That’s what I call being served a shit burger! Lol

#1579 10 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Here's an album I put together of only my machine to share with Jack.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/CVuJheFjQJhTMD5A9
These two are my favorite. But check out the album, sort of like a "greatest hits" of crap I had to fix. But sure, I should buy another playfield
[quoted image][quoted image]

Sad to say, I bet this is why Wonka is a shadow of Pirates. Cruddy QC aside, the complexity of one game is classic JJP, the other Stern Pro....Plus.

Absolutely awful issues here.

#1580 10 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I probably jump to conclusions more than I should, but I think it's pretty evident that the clear coat is soft and/or there is a problem with the printing or finishing process. The narrow posts with the sharp edge caused the defective playfield to chip and crack around those specific posts while other posts mainly pool up the clear because they are not sharp.

Yep, same happened with many of the TNA games (including mine). Spooky did not offer free replacement playfields, but then I believe most customers didn't expect it from Spooky either.

#1581 10 months ago

Today’s games are just too expensive to be pulling these types of shenanigans.

17
#1582 10 months ago

Just wanted to thank Harry for going down the rabbit hole with JJP. As I shared with him, I went down the same path he did. Original owner, registered the day I got it, reported issues within 30 days, cracking at both slings on a new $9500 game back in October/November of last year. All of the staff saw the pics. Jack himself told me that is just pinball and offered nothing. I offered to buy a new playfield at cost and was turned down. Hate to say it but I will not buy new again. Between JJP quality issues and Stern code, it just doesn’t make sense to jump in. Glad others will, more power to you and I truly wish you luck.

#1583 10 months ago
Quoted from VillaThrills:

Just wanted to thank Harry for going down the rabbit hole with JJP. As I shared with him, I went down the same path he did. Original owner, registered the day I got it, reported issues within 30 days, cracking at both slings on a new $9500 game back in October/November of last year. All of the staff saw the pics. Jack himself told me that is just pinball and offered nothing. I offered to buy a new playfield at cost and was turned down. Hate to say it but I will not buy new again. Between JJP quality issues and Stern code, it just doesn’t make sense to jump in. Glad others will, more power to you and I truly wish you luck.

Jesus.....

And they never resolved any of this, since?

What's the point of buying a nearly 10K machine to have so many issues corrupting it???

#1584 10 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

And that is exactly why I'm against torches and pitchforks for JJP. They got caught in this like everyone did, and they are at least providing a workaround and replacement program.

BULLSHIT. I say... I say BULLSHIT. JJP has been having issues with his PFs since WOZ along with quality issues and he has been giving out band aids for it instead of replacing the playfields the whole time. You pay 9-12 K for a game and the pf starts coming apart in less than 1000 plays and he doesn’t acknowledge it or he will sell you another flawed pf. Fuck that guy and the horse he rode in on. I’m sorry but I think you are crazy to buy from him or Stern. Let one game sit and rot and they will get their shit together

#1585 10 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

They got caught in this like everyone did, and they are at least providing a workaround and replacement program.

Man, I just saw this post. That's pretty lame.

What ties do you have to JJP? Cause god damn you're sure a apologist for them. There sure are some suspect opinions around here.

They got caught up in nothing aside from poor quality control and manufacturing issues they created. If anything they got caught up in allowing suppliers to provide them substandard items without proper validation procedures. As if they were some sort of caustality in the boat with the rest of us, pshaw. Poor form.

-2
#1586 10 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Man, I just saw this post. That's pretty lame.
What ties do you have to JJP? Cause god damn you're sure a apologist for them. There sure are some suspect opinions around here.
They got caught up in nothing aside from poor quality control and manufacturing issues they created. If anything they got caught up in allowing suppliers to provide them substandard items without proper validation procedures. As if they were some sort of caustality in the boat with the rest of us, pshaw. Poor form.

No ties. I'm just empathetic. They are a growing business, and setbacks like this can be catastrophic.

If the playfield was sanding off everywhere, I'd be more upset. So far it's localized to the posts which can be hidden from view, so I'm ok with it. Not thrilled mind you, obviously all we want solid playfields, but I can deal.

I honestly believe the folks at JJP want to do right by their customers and want them to be happy.
I do believe their playfield offer is a reasonable one, but we disagree on that point and that's fine.

I also think you catch more flies with honey than with legal threats (which immediately shut any company down and put them into defense mode.)

#1587 10 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

No ties. I'm just empathetic. They are a growing business, and setbacks like this can be catastrophic.
If the playfield was sanding off everywhere, I'd be more upset. So far it's localized to the posts which can be hidden from view, so I'm ok with it. Not thrilled mind you, obviously all we want solid playfields, but I can deal.
I honestly believe the folks at JJP want to do right by their customers and want them to be happy.
I do believe their playfield offer is a reasonable one, but we disagree on that point and that's fine.
I also think you catch more flies with honey than with legal threats (which immediately shut any company down and put them into defense mode.)

You keep saying it’s limited to the posts and that is flat out not the case for many of us here.

As far as having empathy, their mistakes are really from a bunch of bad decisions being made from the top all the way down to the line worker. I have no empathy for their BS.

#1588 10 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

No ties. I'm just empathetic. They are a growing business, and setbacks like this can be catastrophic.
If the playfield was sanding off everywhere, I'd be more upset. So far it's localized to the posts which can be hidden from view, so I'm ok with it. Not thrilled mind you, obviously all we want solid playfields, but I can deal.
I honestly believe the folks at JJP want to do right by their customers and want them to be happy.
I do believe their playfield offer is a reasonable one, but we disagree on that point and that's fine.
I also think you catch more flies with honey than with legal threats (which immediately shut any company down and put them into defense mode.)

I don't agree, feel that legal action will resolve this issue or course correct it.

I do feel me not buying another game of theirs though, will.

I can do that, far easier than the $9500 I had to earn to buy this game.

To my knowledge, this isn't the start up company it once was, in some capacity. Jack is now the Founder, the Owner is Leonard Abess.

https://www.pinballnews.com/news/jerseyjack8.html

He's no slouch, and neither are his two partner investors.

He's also been kind to his employees, when he needn't be.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-13/this-banker-emerged-from-the-collapse-a-billionaire-hero

I do feel though, that as people that are not employees, but customers, asking simply to be made whole, which translates to possibly a $400 loss per affected customer, is a very, very reasonable think to ask for.

I don't feel anyone at JJP should suffer for my benefit or gain, but I do feel that me buying a high level leisure/gratuitous purchase/toy, should not find me in such a quandary months into ownership.

This process should be fun, not painful.

#1589 10 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

No ties. I'm just empathetic. They are a growing business, and setbacks like this can be catastrophic.
If the playfield was sanding off everywhere, I'd be more upset. So far it's localized to the posts which can be hidden from view, so I'm ok with it. Not thrilled mind you, obviously all we want solid playfields, but I can deal.
I honestly believe the folks at JJP want to do right by their customers and want them to be happy.
I do believe their playfield offer is a reasonable one, but we disagree on that point and that's fine.
I also think you catch more flies with honey than with legal threats (which immediately shut any company down and put them into defense mode.)

There is some reason to this, but if it's the same issue with wonka?

#1590 10 months ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

There is some reason to this, but if it's the same issue with wonka?

I guess the impedance mismatch here is that I am ok "meeting them halfway" because I want them to keep making great pinball machines. Not everyone in the thread is. I do respect your opinions and emotions on the issue.

I strongly suspect the $550 playfield offer is cost. If they were to give those free, to all 1000 buyers, that is a $550k loss.

I'm sure we all agree what a great game POTC is, otherwise everyone would be dumping them and moving on.
Do you want to make the best pinball game made in the last decade a complete financial failure for them?

#1591 10 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I guess the impedance mismatch here is that I am ok "meeting them halfway" because I want them to keep making great pinball machines. Not everyone in the thread is. I do respect your opinions and emotions on the issue.
I strongly suspect the $550 playfield offer is cost. If they were to give those free, to all 1000 buyers, that is a $550k loss.
I'm sure we all agree what a great game POTC is, otherwise everyone would be dumping them and moving on.
Do you want to make the best pinball game made in the last decade a complete financial failure for them?

Here was and is my offer or expectation. I agree cost is around $500. They lose no money here but we all do.

Meeting halfway is fair and halfway in this case is a replacement PF for $250-$275. Risk is shared on both ends. They have to pay for some of this and it keeps my cost low enough to accept the risk of another shitty PF.

They could do this, especially if they were willing to discount a new machine order for me by the same amount or more.

The whole situation is just very bad optics for them.

#1592 10 months ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Here was and is my offer or expectation. I agree cost is around $500. They lose no money here but we all do.
Meeting halfway is fair and halfway in this case is a replacement PF for $250-$275. Risk is shared on both ends. They have to pay for some of this and it keeps my cost low enough to accept the risk of another shitty PF.
They could do this, especially if they were willing to discount a new machine order for me by the same amount or more.
The whole situation is just very bad optics for them.

At 10K a pop, I believe you’re quite generous.

#1593 10 months ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Come on, it’s not all 1000 pf’s let’s be realistic here, or are you now saying the whole run was bad?

JJP’s position is that this isn’t widespread but I’m skeptical.

If you have chipping and chipping in areas other than slings especially, the deal needs to be better than the $550.

Here was and is my offer or expectation. I agree cost is around $500. They lose no money here but we all do.
Meeting halfway is fair and halfway in this case is a replacement PF for $250-$275. Risk is shared on both ends. They have to pay for some of this and it keeps my cost low enough to accept the risk of another shitty PF.
They could do this, especially if they were willing to discount a new machine order for me by the same amount or more.
The whole situation is just very bad optics for them.

Come on, it’s not all 1000 pf’s let’s be realistic here, or are you now saying the whole run was bad?
JJP’s position is that this isn’t widespread but I’m skeptical.
If you have chipping and chipping in areas other than slings especially, the deal needs to be better than the $550.
Here was and is my offer or expectation. I agree cost is around $500. They lose no money here but we all do.
Meeting halfway is fair and halfway in this case is a replacement PF for $250-$275. Risk is shared on both ends. They have to pay for some of this and it keeps my cost low enough to accept the risk of another shitty PF.
They could do this, especially if they were willing to discount a new machine order for me by the same amount or more.

#1594 10 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I guess the impedance mismatch here is that I am ok "meeting them halfway" because I want them to keep making great pinball machines. Not everyone in the thread is. I do respect your opinions and emotions on the issue.
I strongly suspect the $550 playfield offer is cost. If they were to give those free, to all 1000 buyers, that is a $550k loss.
I'm sure we all agree what a great game POTC is, otherwise everyone would be dumping them and moving on.
Do you want to make the best pinball game made in the last decade a complete financial failure for them?

Do we want to have the best pinball game in the last decade be torn apart at every post within the next five years?

We all know, not even close to 1000 people have had an issue to the degree some have. Let's say it's 100 games. At 100 games, even at $550 equals $55000. If even just 6 out of those 100 buyers, refuse to buy another JJP game due to this significant issue, then they've already lost.....

Lost sales>>>>>>>not even dozens of playfields.

#1595 10 months ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

At 10K a pop, I believe you’re quite generous.

Ideally a free replacement would be nice however I’m getting tired of talking with them about this, been 3+ months of nothing so just trying to find some middle ground.

Believe me, I’m not happy and won’t buy anything from them in the future. Done.

#1596 10 months ago
Quoted from wesman:

Do we want to have the best pinball game in the last decade be torn apart at every post within the next five years?
We all know, not even close to 1000 people have had an issue to the degree some have. Let's say it's 100 games. At 100 games, even at $550 equals $55000. If even just 6 out of those 100 buyers, refuse to buy another JJP game due to this significant issue, then they've already lost.....
Lost sales>>>>>>>not even dozens of playfields.

The lost sales really manifests itself when they lose someone who buys every nib game from them or really any repeat customer.

I believe HH stated there are about 83 pinsiders participating in this thread with varying degrees of damage.

#1597 10 months ago
Quoted from Psw757:

The lost sales really manifests itself when they lose someone who buys every nib game from them or really any repeat customer.
I believe HH stated there are about 83 pinsiders participating in this thread with varying degrees of damage.

Well, I was one of those - I voted (honestly) "had chipping, covered with posts."

And then I bought two Wonkas, so...

#1598 10 months ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Ideally a free replacement would be nice however I’m getting tired of talking with them about this, been 3+ months of nothing so just trying to find some middle ground.
Believe me, I’m not happy and won’t buy anything from them in the future. Done.

Well, as it stands, then two out of those six customers.

I told both Jack and Mike from Automated in February that I was serious about buying the first four games, and would change my lifestyle to do so. I got calls back from them very quickly. Now.......not so much.

So right there, that's 3 tables from me, and possibly one from Psw757

Where's the gain here for JJP?

I know for me, that's a gain of $25-27,000 back in my account over the next two years.

#1599 10 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Well, I was one of those - I voted (honestly) "had chipping, covered with posts."
And then I bought two Wonkas, so...

So....you really must feel sorry for JJP I guess, very high level of empathy to do such a thing.

#1600 10 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I guess the impedance mismatch here is that I am ok "meeting them halfway" because I want them to keep making great pinball machines. Not everyone in the thread is. I do respect your opinions and emotions on the issue.
I strongly suspect the $550 playfield offer is cost. If they were to give those free, to all 1000 buyers, that is a $550k loss.
I'm sure we all agree what a great game POTC is, otherwise everyone would be dumping them and moving on.
Do you want to make the best pinball game made in the last decade a complete financial failure for them?

The merit of my post was intended to be, on sorting issues. Keeping up a design flaw seems utterly strange.
Many manufacturers Theese days build their product to only last for a while?
Just look at cars, kitchen appliances, or what ever.

Are consumers of theese very expensive toys however aware that their toys will run out within a ten year span?
JJP has crap playfield, that will look like a potatofield within that time, Stern that spike (good luck finding replecement board for www-game in a couple of years), Chicago gamling has one board to rule them all.

I think most Williams titles, will outlive them all.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 44.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
PinBoss Mods
$ 24.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Hookedonpinball.com
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Escondido, CA
$ 28.25
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
$ 259.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball LEDs
There are 2984 posts in this topic. You are on page 32 of 60.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside