I had the exact same worries when I did my JP playfield. I am sure the stuff isn't as great 4 weeks later, but I forgot about it in the fridge and tried it and it still seemed fine (I just sprayed on some cardboard). But I would easily say a week.

I haven't removed any posts or through playfield elements around the lanes except the slings. I am fairly sure there will be larger chunks of playfield that come up with them so I'm leaving them until I hear more. I don't really want to swap playfields soon (I have Woz to do, Tom waiting, Totan) so going to try and prevent this one from getting too bad. When I pulled up the pop bumpers and the stuff under the BP ramp it was enough to tell me that there will be more issues if I pull more stuff.

I am guessing it all depends on what it is doing and where it is going. I think that is still the case but I feel nail polish really doesn't have the same kind of lasting ability. I even tried some UV cure nail polish on my WOZ (sparkly red) to repair some powder coat and it still never really "set" as hard as I'd want it to. I think there are more pro UV cure adhesives and coatings that might work well, I haven't messed with them enough yet.

Possibly considering a heat gun on low to see if that helps being able to remove the post clean. I'll report back if I do it.

I got a few paragraph email back from Frank today (in response to my email to Jack, which I copied Frank on). I am unsure if I want to post it, I don't want to just throw out everything they send me. It was interesting, I already replied with a detailed, lengthy email with much of what we have all discussed here and fairly strong demands for a better resolution.

Is email inherently confident? There was no confidence implied or expressed, but I feel sort of bad pasting my conversation verbatim. Needless to say, nothing of any real material interest to the discussion here was said. If it ends up being fruitful I'll post both sides of the conversation but I want to wait and see if anything comes from my reply. JJP is being given a lot of softballs to hit out of the park here, lets see if they take a swing.

I think this is sarcasm?

------

I've been contacted by at least 10 people who have issues with this game, how many have contacted JJP? I highly recommend at LEAST emailing Frank and Jack expressing your feelings and displeasure in the situation and what you feel is right. Unless they are inconvenienced by the situation they will not learn how to treat their customers better. This is a market which allows manufacturers to give less than stellar customer service if that is what is best for them. The competition is low, loyalty high and demand high. If this gets swept under the rug like many other issues then there is no incentive for the manufacturers to change. If they keep selling games and have little to no flack from their poor treatment of customers they have no motivation to change.

If you are in this thread, have playfield chipping and haven't contacted JJP in a meaningful way (at least emailing Jack and Frank, but ideally calling them) and expressed your feelings about how they are handling this situation then you aren't helping and probably hurting the cause.

Take some action.

There is no way to justify making customers spend more money to fix ADMITTED manufacturing mistakes. JJP made a mistake, they need to make their customers whole.

Heh, yeah that's what I thought you were referring to. It was also as if they never heard of this issue before even though others reported it and they changed their manufacturing line to accommodate the posts. But yeah, worn balls likely... more ball shining needed.

Ironically on of the local distributors contacted me last week to tell me my place in line for Wonka was ready. I debated and today emailed them with a few paragraphs as to why I would be passing on a Wonka at this time. They happen to be the distributor who sold my machine originally, as well. I don't expect much but I think the folks who stand to make money selling JJP games should know why they aren't selling one to me now.

Oh boy. Not a good reply from Jack.

Still wanting to wait to post details until I get the clarification from Jack that I am asking for. There is definitely no sense of improper doing on their part, more like they are doing everyone a favor by offering the playfields.

Well that was quick, Jack responded. Several sources are telling me that there is no inherent confidentiality in email communication, with that I am disclosing my discussions with Jack and Frank so others can decide if they feel JJP is taking the appropriate action. I am going to follow-up tonight with a post an updated Community Action Letter which I would like to send as a demand to the owners and investors in JJP. If others want to support this and sign their names, they can. Otherwise I will send it as a personal letter. I am open to critique and modification of the letter so it represents all who sign it.

Emails are in order from top to bottom:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
On Jul 11, 2019, at 12:32 PM, HH <erich@harry******.com> wrote:

Hi Jack,

I am writing you to express my frustration with an unfortunate situation. As you are well aware the chipping/cracking issues with POTC playfields is a problem. I don’t feel JJP has been forthright in their response, communicative on a level which is merited by the relative cost and positioning of your product value proposition nor have you provided a reasonable nor appropriate response to the manufacturing defects with this game. So, I believe speaking with you is the next step in my journey.

I’m going to keep this short since you don’t need to hear my drawn out story. I contacted Frank many weeks ago about missing clear coat and artwork on my game, chipping around the sling posts and clear bunching and gathering (and in some places flaking away from the playfield). I provided images, answers to his questions about my game and waited. I followed up a few times but each time I was told there would be a response forthcoming. No response was ever made to me, no offers of a fix kit or a playfield replacement were suggested. I’ve signed up for the JJP mailing list several times, no email was ever sent to me. I’ve purchased many POTC parts from you, no email based on my purchase history was ever sent to notify me of a manufacturing issue, as any recall situation would warrant. I saw no official announcement until someone else posted on pinside a link to your kit PDF and eventually to the playfield discount option, again no official notification from JJP that anyone seems to be aware of. My recent emails to Frank about further damage I am finding, as I repair and replace elements of my game, have gone without response. This, in fact, seems like a fairly common pattern in your company. Some emails are replied to, some are not and promises of further updates are in the ether. Frustrating to say the least.

But the real frustration comes in to play when I mulled over the offer of a discounted playfield. It is my belief that this is an inappropriate response to the situation, and here is why. I have to imagine you did some calculations in determining what concession to give owners of this game with chipping. I imagine, without having met you, that you’re a savvy business guy and a decision was made to offer playfields at the price you are based on your playfield costs. I highly doubt you are losing money in this offer and frankly, I doubt your cost on playfields is $600. Am I correct in suspecting that JJP isn’t really bearing much burden here? In either case, my reality is that I purchased an expensive product that has a manufacturing flaw. JJP has culpability in this with the sharp edged sling posts that were overlooked in whatever QA and supplier part validation process you have and acceptance of a substandard playfield from your supplier. Furthermore, JJP knew of this issue months before and did nothing to inform their customers in order to give notification that a simple measure may help prevent further damage. JJPs non-action contributed to further playfield deterioration. You made changes to the manufacturing line by adding washers under some posts. Knowing this was an issue by admission of your manufacturing line change yet doing nothing to inform customers and leaving it up to the “lottery of chance” as to if your game has that protection in place or not is highly suspect. Each owner is paying the same for their game edition, one should not have a manufacturing fix applied while other does not, and the owner is not notified of this known issue. You knew about the issue, you did nothing, that is unacceptable.

In any legal remedy situation the victim is expected to be made whole. Not to be put in a better position but also not left in a worse position. You are offering me the opportunity to give your company more money to purchase a playfield which has manufacturing defects. I am asking to go out of pocket not only on the cost of the playfield AND the shipping but any costs involved in having a trained individual do the work to replace the playfield (or an owner’s time, which we know will be extensive). On top of this, I would imagine that we are receiving the same playfields which have been installed in the game which are very clearly subpar. The clear coat is mushy. It bunches and gathers around many parts of the game. Chipping and cracking are now happening in several locations around the game and your kit does not help disguise or prevent this. Images have been sent to Frank of these other areas. Playfields we would be purchasing likely would have a similar situation, assuming they are made via the same processes as existing playfields, and there is no way to know if or when this would happen on replacement playfields. That all being said, your offer to me is to ask me to spend more money to fix a defect which your company not only was blind to but contributed to (with the sharp edged posts) . This does not pass the test of the claims on your website of “caring deeply for our customers” and being “committed to their satisfaction”. JJP should be resolving this problem by making customers whole and JJP should not profit from this venture nor should customers be put in a worse situation by having to spend great sums of money to fix their less-than-one-year-old games.

It is obvious from online discussion that this clear coat issue is systemic with Mirco as this is not isolated to JJP playfields. Yet, we did not purchase from Mirco and so it is your responsibility to deal with your supplier on your customer’s behalf. I don’t feel JJP is treating its customers with the kind of high quality customer service one of the most expensive pinball manufacturers should. I am asking you to reconsider your offer for those who have significant chipping to their playfield. At minimum, a free playfield should be provided without any cost to the customer. In a world where your customer care claims are sincere, the care you have for your customers would be matched with an offer to send out populated playfields for an easy swap with much less burden for the customer, even though there will still be out of pocket costs. Anything short of these solutions is unfair to your customer and admitting those values are not real.

It does not seem that with past issues JJP is adept at nipping situations like this in the bud. The time is still ripe for JJP to stand up and make right the customers it has put in a worse position by your inaction and non-communication, not to mention poor QA process. I would also suggest you review your communication protocols and how you deal with customer contact. It is very unnerving to be left without responses from a company where I have spent a great amount of disposable income on their products.

Please put yourself in your customer’s shoes and see that this offer is a further burden and not a solution.

I look forward to your reply. Since I am unaware of your email communication preferences I will plan on giving you a phone call should you not respond within a timely manner so you can be made aware of this message and give you the opportunity to discuss with me over the phone your position and restitution.

Thank you,

HH

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Jack's reply

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hi Scott, sorry you had to write this short e mail.

I understand your points. I’ll see what we can do to help in the situation.

Thanks, Jack

<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Jack subsequently called me and I posted the synopsis of this conversation after the call:

-----------
Jack called me. We got disconnected, he was driving, but the gist is he understands there are issues. He says that it is not the clearcoat, it is the installation of the playfield pieces. He said he does not blame Mirco. I know we all have differing opinions, but this is what he told me. He said he can't/won't do something special for me and not everyone else (which I certainly didn't ask for and do agree with him). He said he couldn't solve the problem in the next 5 minutes on the phone, which I understood and agreed with and we chit chatted a bit. He seems genuinely concerned with the email I sent him and he explained that he reads every email, positive and negative. He commented that my email was actually short compared to many others (his email I thought was sarcasm when he said that, I told him I appreciated the sarcasm as I did know it was long). We got disconnected around this point, I left him a VM letting him know how much I appreciated the call, that he didn't need to call me right back as I got the message he was conveying and that I would look forward to hearing from him soon about what can be done. He also said he wants to do what he can but he doesn't know if he can give us all we are asking for (or all I was asking for) as he doesn't want to lose the company over this (hey, it's what he said) but he knows there is an issue and wants to help. He also mentioned he knows that it's not all games affected, that the folks who post about this being a non issue is not who is concerned with and he wants to take care of his dedicated customers.
----------

Frank then replied to my original email:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hi Scott

I’m sure all of us at JJP would like to have a more comprehensive response to the POTC playfield issues but that is at a senior management level. For my part, right around the time you sent me the three pics of your game (end of April) is when we started to hear more about this issue. Your pics, as you know, were forwarded to engineering; and several weeks later they researched and selected new washers for the Posts. A service bulletin was written and posted to our website and the JJP owner’s group blog around June 10. If you are not on the JJP owners blog let Jen know and she can invite you. I saw an email where Shannan forwarded you the official announcement with instructions on how to request the Post kit and Playfield.

I reviewed your account and I don’t see any request for the post kit or a playfield. In looking at your three pics the post kit may be all you need. You did send some other pics but they were not from your game, but rather an arcade game. That’s not a criticism, I understand what you were trying to communicate. There have been a number of emails so if you sent other pics LMK. Not requesting the post kit to help prevent further damage weakens your case for a more comprehensive resolution.

I am sorry for dropping some of your emails, but when it comes to the playfield issues I’m in the middle. I’ll try to do better.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<

And Jack replied to Frank's email with this:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Good Morning

When I was recently in California this weekend, I found out that this game was owned by “PDX Monkey” and sold to Scott.

The JJP Limited Warranty is Limited to the Original Owner of the game, in this case “PDX Monkey” and not covered by the Limited Warranty to you as a second owner Scott.

There is a program in place to take care of the few people with issues, Frank states below;

I reviewed your account and I don’t see any request for the post kit or a playfield. In looking at your three pics the post kit may be all you need.

Scott, If you would like to take advantage of what Frank is offering and the reduced playfield price, Frank is copied.

On the support page of the JJP website is the following link as well;

https://www.jerseyjackpinball.com/support/

Thanks,

Jack
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I wanted to clarify what Jack was implying by bringing in to the conversation that I was not the original owner. I find it interesting that he used the username of the original owner of the game and I am unsure what having been in CA had to do with it.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hi Jack,

Your email confused me a bit; please clarify something for me. Are you suggesting that should I have been the first owner I would be covered under your warranty and there would be some other offer or deal to replace my playfield that, as the second owner, I am not able to get? I’m just trying to figure out why you are now concerned that I am the second owner, as if that had something specific to do with your admitted manufacturing flaw. Please help me understand so I can decide how I should proceed.

Thank you,

HH
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

His response:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Scott,

You qualify for the current offer of the washers and reduced cost replacement playfield.

Otherwise, for other items, your game is not covered under the JJP Limited Warranty.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

And he followed that email up with:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I did not admit any manufacturing flaw.

We discussed some possible scenarios as we have stated no such definitive information at all.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

So I made one last attempt to express my dissatisfaction:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Jack,

I don’t want to have a back and forth, he said, over email but you specifically told me on our call last week that this was not the fault of Mirco and that the causation was 100% the fault of your manufacturing line. This isn’t some forensic science case, the evidence is pretty clear from many collaborative sources but you literally fell on your sword for Mirco on our phone call. This is not something I imagined, I have very clear notes from our call. You’ve released almost no information about anything, one of the issues your customers are upset about.

Your replacement offer is not sufficient. Someone made a mistake, it is not the owner of the game, and a defective product was produced by your company. It is not the responsibility of the owner to pay to repair that mistake.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

And his final response

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Again, we discussed some possible causes, nothing was or is positively determined.

The offer we have is there which you can take advantage of.

Thanks,

Jack
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Fuck it, letter is mostly revised. Feel free to comment directly in the letter. If you support and want to sign it, PM me. Unless you say otherwise I will keep your information private only adding it to the printed copies of the letter, it will not be posted online. If I don't get a handful of folks to sign with me I will send it individually as I do not want to speak on behalf of a small portion of the community. There are 83 people here who supposedly have cracking/chipping, if you want your voice to be heard here is one way.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Kh4f2WGj-YMZo5ip5-KebxzCNJHdhqjETGiNmpCLY0U/edit?usp=sharing

I'd say PM me (or if you PM me I can give anyone my email address if they want to keep it off the forum). I would suggest we would want to add some combination of Name, Email, Address, Phone and pinside username. Leave off whatever you want, but I think at least some valid contact information would be concrete evidence of support.

Let me post a succinct response:

- I didn't ask for a populated playfield swap. It's not unreasonable, but I am asking for a fair solution.

- Nothing about what was posted here defines the offer as reasonable or a compromise (which has no bearing on this situation, owners have no reason they need to compromise), only your opinion. This is not objective.

- Manufacturing defects don't have any bearing on ownership. The same game, the same production line, the same price paid for the game to JJP, etc. Just because one owner sold it does not relieve JJP of the responsibility of their poor manufacturing. JJP has provided warranty support before on this game with me, nothing about this offer was said to be "under warranty". JJP's requirement is that all games are registered within 5 days of possession, otherwise warranty void, should we take a poll of who has done this? If I return it to the owner and they give me my money back is it now the original owner's game and it's under warranty again? All you keyboard lawyers could weigh in on this.

- I don't want to sell the game, I installed my own post kit. I've created many other fixes for manufacturing issues on my own, notified JJP and was never replied to. You opinion on me not keeping my game if I can't "deal" has absolutely no bearing on my decisions or opinions.

The issue is very clear. JJP has a track record of manufacturing defects. Prior issues were handled in a less than stellar manner and owners were complacent in their acceptance of this. This issue is a admittedly a manufacturing defect which JJP hid, changed their production line to protect future games but said nothing to current owners on how to prevent damage. Until enough stink was made JJP made no response and never announced their responses publically and only barely privately. As time goes on more defects are being found and the playfields are getting worse. No consumer of any high end good should accept a solution to a manufacturing defect that costs them money. JJP is responsible for the quality of their products, they state very strongly their customer support and product quality on their website and this issue is clearly not held to those standards.

You are satisfied with your product, enjoy it. I am not, others are not, it's fair to demand satisfaction from a company which created a defective product.

Ya, I don't care. Either is fine