(Topic ID: 242867)

PoTC - Who has playfield cracking & wear around sling posts?


By harryhoudini

63 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 1,513 posts
  • 133 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 days ago by paynemic
  • Topic is favorited by 46 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“What kind of issues are you seeing?”

  • I have visible dimples but no chipping 24 votes
    18%
  • I can see chipping but haven't done anything yet 46 votes
    34%
  • I can see chipping and installed mylar, washer and/or larger star post 19 votes
    14%
  • My playfield looks fine (but I haven't removed the star posts) 25 votes
    18%
  • I removed the star posts and my playfield looks fine 12 votes
    9%
  • My game had clear washers installed from the factory 10 votes
    7%

(Multiple choice - 136 votes by 130 Pinsiders)

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There are 1513 posts in this topic. You are on page 30 of 31.
#1451 4 days ago

Crap. Here’s another one. Clear is coming away. Where I moved the “I” lane post. Crap, crap, crap. I feel so shit. And there’s nothing I can do about it. Never had this happen on any other pin.

Advise to all owners. Do not move any posts.

Am I meant to feel responsible? Jersey Jack makes me feel that way. I actually feel ill.

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#1452 4 days ago

HA.. now I have a reason to tell my wife I am not moving it.

At this point, might as well do whatever you want. It's not going to magically get better. Seems like a new playfield is the only option.

#1453 4 days ago

Btw... 83 people in this thread have voted they have some sort of chipping. I'd say that's a pretty high percentage of participating pinside POTC owners. I wonder how many people actually have this game in their pinside collection. That's 83 out out of 360 owners listed on pinside.

#1454 4 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Btw... 83 people in this thread have voted they have some sort of chipping. I'd say that's a pretty high percentage of participating pinside POTC owners...

Don't doubt there's a problem, hope everyone gets taken care of, let's not act like these are scientific numbers.

#1455 4 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Don't doubt there's a problem, hope everyone gets taken care of, let's not act like these are scientific numbers.

It's as close as we'll get. Biggest collection of owners centralized that I know of.

#1456 4 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

It's as close as we'll get. Biggest collection of owners centralized that I know of.

Yes but the poll is not limited to owners... You've seen pinside polls

#1457 4 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Yes but the poll is not limited to owners... You've seen pinside polls

True, didn't really consider that.

#1458 4 days ago

I’d argue the number is higher... I have 6 friends with a version of the game, guess what all 6 have these issues. Not every owner is on pinside as much as we are, and chances are there are more occurrences of this than we know. FYI thelaw

#1459 4 days ago

And here’s the problem. Say you have a car with a defect. And then the manufacturer replaces it for you with a new one with the same problem. Problem solved? I don’t think so.

But in this case the buyer actually had to pay for the same defect!

Still no word from micro.

JJP should stop using micro or sit down with him and say FIX IT. Stop using thick clear. Come up with a more durable product. Otherwise it will cost JJP sales. Pirates was a small production run. Think of Wonka.

#1460 4 days ago

Harry next time you talk to Jack ask him if he plans on actually fixing these issues by the time GNR comes out. He is losing sales. I am one of them.

#1461 4 days ago

I also want to ask why they didn't fix their production line with wonka posts bunching up clear if its just their issue and not Mirco. I think it's a bit fishy after mulling it over for a bit.

#1462 4 days ago

I agree Harry. He is a businessman, and most likely is only going to divulge limited info as to not fully admit or own this problem quite yet... its a touchy matter. I think he knows he has a problem in his hands.... but I also fear he’s going to do a thing about it, and kinda just gave you some lip Service to calm the waters.

#1463 3 days ago
Quoted from woody76:

Stern does it with great success.

just a FYI that this support seems to have stopped.

#1464 3 days ago

Yes the small posts had a sharp edge to the bottom which caused cutting thru the clear coat,
BUT the CLEAR COATING is the main cause of the problem! all other excuses used for bubbling etc around the posts is just plane Bullshit.

Either Mirco is using a cheaper product now, or not enough hardener added to the 2 pack mix.

Sorry for Jack JJP, but he himself must work this out with Mirco as it's only going to bite him in the butt in the long run.

#1465 3 days ago
Quoted from Squizz:

Yes the small posts had a sharp edge to the bottom which caused cutting thru the clear coat,
BUT the CLEAR COATING is the main cause of the problem! all other excuses used for bubbling etc around the posts is just plane Bullshit.
Either Mirco is using a cheaper product now, or not enough hardener added to the 2 pack mix.
Sorry for Jack JJP, but he himself must work this out with Mirco as it's only going to bite him in the butt in the long run.

The posts are cutting through the clear because the clear is still soft, as evidenced by the fingernail test. If the clear was fully hardened and not the equivalent to skin on top of pudding, the sharp posts wouldn't be an issue.

I think Jack is a hell of a good guy, but his factory associates installing things too tightly is not the issue here. In fact, too loose will create even bigger issues. The playfield clearcoat is NOT right. Please don't fall on your sword for Mirco, Jack.

#1466 3 days ago

Beatles continues to get worse with time and plays

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#1467 3 days ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Beatles continues to get worse with time and plays[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Have you gotten any response at all? Have you contacted via any method other than email?

#1468 3 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

We got disconnected around this point,

Ah, the old "Im driving through a tunnel" trick..,
Classic Jersey Jack...

#1469 3 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

He also said he wants to do what he can but he doesn't know if he can give us all we are asking for (or all I was asking for) as he doesn't want to lose the company over this (hey, it's what he said)

This^^^, this is the reason JJP can't do what should be done - repair or replace the defective playfields, fully populated, at no cost to the consumer. JJP can't absorb that kind of loss. There have been a lot of comparisons to auto manufacturers repairing defective paint or whatever, but those companies are huge compared to JJP and have repair/recall/replacement costs built in to their business models. JJP obviously does not. But this is no excuse. When a small company produces a defective product, they may go under, that's just the harsh reality of doing business. I certainly don't want to see that happen to JJP (or any pinball company), and I'm sure most of us would agree on that. So the question becomes, are we as the consumers of an expensive niche market product, willing to take the loss (devaluation) just to keep the businesses afloat?

#1470 3 days ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

just a FYI that this support seems to have stopped.

well that sucks to hear

#1471 3 days ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Beatles continues to get worse with time and plays[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I bet the people who have the exact same playfield in their $25k machines are thrilled with Stern also. With the kind of money the distributors made off these things, they should really be going to bat for people.

#1472 3 days ago
Quoted from arzoo:

This^^^, this is the reason JJP can't do what should be done - repair or replace the defective playfields, fully populated, at no cost to the consumer. JJP can't absorb that kind of loss. There have been a lot of comparisons to auto manufacturers repairing defective paint or whatever, but those companies are huge compared to JJP and have repair/recall/replacement costs built in to their business models. JJP obviously does not. But this is no excuse. When a small company produces a defective product, they may go under, that's just the harsh reality of doing business. I certainly don't want to see that happen to JJP (or any pinball company), and I'm sure most of us would agree on that. So the question becomes, are we as the consumers of an expensive niche market product, willing to take the loss (devaluation) just to keep the businesses afloat?

I’m not willing to take the hit for them, that sets a serious precedent for other mfg’s doing this shit going forward and then we as a community are screwed.

Their cost on these PF is likely $550-$750. If they had to shell out 50 pf’s We are talking somewhere between 27-37k or the equivalent of losing 3-5 nib sales. If this is more a widespread issue than 50 pf’s They could spread the hit out over a pre-determined timeframe to mitigate the hit. Do it in order of damage claim received.

I also am suspect of JJP accepting 100% responsibility for this. I do not own a MFG business but when work is contracted out(Mirco) in this case, isn’t there some sort of language in the contract or insurance held by the selling company(JJP) to protect against defective component?

#1473 3 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

I bet the people who have the exact same playfield in their $25k machines are thrilled with Stern also. With the kind of money the distributors made off these things, they should really be going to bat for people.

I just will not buy NIB anymore. I will wait until some used ones with known good playfields hit the secondary market.

#1474 3 days ago
Quoted from Psw757:

I’m not willing to take the hit for them, that sets a serious precedent for other mfg’s doing this shit going forward and then we as a community are screwed.
Their cost on these PF is likely $550-$750. If they had to shell out 50 pf’s We are talking somewhere between 27-37k or the equivalent of losing 3-5 nib sales. If this is more a widespread issue than 50 pf’s They could spread the hit out over a pre-determined timeframe to mitigate the hit. Do it in order of damage claim received.
I also am suspect of JJP accepting 100% responsibility for this. I do not own a MFG business but when work is contracted out(Mirco) in this case, isn’t there some sort of language in the contract or insurance held by the selling company(JJP) to protect against defective component?

Devil's advocate here...what if JJP was pushing to get the PF's to start production and Mirco warned them that they would not be fully cured if delivered too soon? That might explain Jack's willingness to eat the blame.

#1475 3 days ago
Quoted from arzoo:

This^^^, this is the reason JJP can't do what should be done - repair or replace the defective playfields, fully populated, at no cost to the consumer. JJP can't absorb that kind of loss. There have been a lot of comparisons to auto manufacturers repairing defective paint or whatever, but those companies are huge compared to JJP and have repair/recall/replacement costs built in to their business models. JJP obviously does not. But this is no excuse. When a small company produces a defective product, they may go under, that's just the harsh reality of doing business. I certainly don't want to see that happen to JJP (or any pinball company), and I'm sure most of us would agree on that. So the question becomes, are we as the consumers of an expensive niche market product, willing to take the loss (devaluation) just to keep the businesses afloat?

When you open your doors regardless of size you take care of your customers or you eventually close your doors. Nobody in their right mind is going to buy a JJP now that DI AND Wonka are plagued with the crap clear issue. They've shown us how many times now that their product failures are to be paid for by the customer. WOZ board disaster ... customers have to eat it. Playfield debacle.... customer have to eat it (being replaced with the same flawed product no less.... nice). If they think with that business model they'll keep their doors open they're sorrily mistaken. Decide, lose money but keep current customers or keep your money, and lose current and future customers eventually shutting your doors. It's really that simple. But this thread has proven one thing, there are some people in this world with more money than brains and are willing to put up with this and give Jack a get out of jail free card. Unfortunately Jack is on the hook for this. If he gets sued then he'll be forced to sue Mirco. Friends or not business is business.

#1476 3 days ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

If he gets sued then he'll be forced to sue Mirco. Friends or not business is business.

Good luck suing a German company as an American company. I have first hand experience in this.

#1477 3 days ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

When you open your doors regardless of size you take care of your customers or you eventually close your doors. Nobody in their right mind is going to buy a JJP now that DI AND Wonka are plagued with the crap clear issue

You're new here it seems.. but such 'catastrophic' issues have come up for every vendor.. and besides the temporary bad noise... they quickly forget and people buy the next title.

Stern art pealing off...
Stern cabinets splitting...
CGC cabinet art wrapping/splits...
JJP WoZ lightboards...
JJP WoZ playfields
Stern PF planking...
Stern PF insert ghosting...

And that's just recent times...

#1478 3 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

You're new here it seems.. but such 'catastrophic' issues have come up for every vendor.. and besides the temporary bad noise... they quickly forget and people buy the next title.
Stern art pealing off...
Stern cabinets splitting...
CGC cabinet art wrapping/splits...
JJP WoZ lightboards...
JJP WoZ playfields
Stern PF planking...
Stern PF insert ghosting...
And that's just recent times...

I've been dying to mention dimpling. Isn't the soft clear exacerbating dimpling!? DIMPLING!!

#1479 3 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Devil's advocate here...what if JJP was pushing to get the PF's to start production and Mirco warned them that they would not be fully cured if delivered too soon? That might explain Jack's willingness to eat the blame.

That is definitely a possibility and doubt any mfg would want to sit on these things for 3-6 months before assembly.

Only argument against this is Mirco appears to be having this issue on other PF’s they produce as well.

It’s definitely a tough situation but the absolute radio silence by mirco is troublesome in my opinion. No willingness to even defend their own product without accusing JJP or anyone of any wrong doing during assembly.

#1480 3 days ago
Quoted from Reznnate:

I've been dying to mention dimpling. Isn't the soft clear exacerbating dimpling!? DIMPLING!!

Strange thing about this is my POTC has had very minimal dimpling for whatever reason, just prone to chipping.

Far less dimpling than any Stern I own.

#1481 3 days ago
Quoted from woody76:

I just will not buy NIB anymore. I will wait until some used ones with known good playfields hit the secondary market.

I’ve been doing this for years now. It’s the only thing that makes any sense.

#1482 3 days ago
Quoted from Psw757:Strange thing about this is my POTC has had very minimal dimpling for whatever reason, just prone to chipping.
Far less dimpling than any Stern I own.

Usually a softer substrate (the wood) is what dimples. The soft, thick clear coat is probably giving enough that it is essentially cushioning the impact.

#1483 3 days ago

This thread got me worried about my hobbit play field so I gave it a close inspection and did not find any issues anywhere on the play field. Are there widespread issues with the hobbit play fields too?

#1484 3 days ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Strange thing about this is my POTC has had very minimal dimpling for whatever reason, just prone to chipping.
Far less dimpling than any Stern I own.

Jello don't dimple

#1485 3 days ago
Quoted from Goronic:

This thread got me worried about my hobbit play field so I gave it a close inspection and did not find any issues anywhere on the play field. Are there widespread issues with the hobbit play fields too?

Here are some pictures of the hobbit play field around slings and vuk. Did Mirco do something different to mess up the potc pfs?
EDIT: I got the machine NIB 3 years ago (July 2016) and it has hundreds of plays.
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#1486 3 days ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Have you gotten any response at all? Have you contacted via any method other than email?

Continually asking if it is getting worse and for more pictures. It is getting very old.

Multiple methods of contact and even big name people have been added to email chains.

Frankly this is getting old. I really hope Stern steps up to address this like they used to. However as more time passes and more emails are exchanged with them just stinging it along... it appears they are browning us off.

All I want is a brand new unpopulated pf for free or a straight exchange with a populated one.

#1487 3 days ago
Quoted from Goronic:

This thread got me worried about my hobbit play field so I gave it a close inspection and did not find any issues anywhere on the play field. Are there widespread issues with the hobbit play fields too?

When I was at Flippers Arcade earlier in the week their Woz, Hobbit and DI all looked perfect from what I could see.

Potc and Wonka not so good!

#1488 3 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Most people agree that a little bit of superglue will wick into the wood and lock down the clear in places where clear has come away from the wood. Depending on where the spot is, that might make sense. I've used auto clear to "paint back on" a clearcoat in worn areas, a small layer at a time. If we're talking under the sling posts, I probably would not do anything but use the neoprene washers.

Here is a little superglue trick: You know how the stuff sticks to your fingers. We all do. But my experience is that superglue will NOT stick chrome like the chrome on a wrench. If you need to glue something down with superglue and what you are trying to glue is a little springy and will not sit tight on the surface you are wanting to bond it to, just use the rounded edge of 3/8" or 7/16" combination wrench to hold what you are gluing in place until the superglue dries enough to grab and hold.

You do want to pull the wrench away before the superglue get completely dry.

Practice on a piece of scrap first.

#1489 3 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Here is a little superglue trick: You know how the stuff sticks to your fingers. We all do. But my experience is that superglue will NOT stick chrome like the chrome on a wrench. If you need to glue something down with superglue and what you are trying to glue is a little springy and will not sit tight on the surface you are wanting to bond it to, just use the rounded edge of 3/8" or 7/16" combination wrench to hold what you are gluing in place until the superglue dries enough to grab and hold.
You do want to pull the wrench away before the superglue get completely dry.
Practice on a piece of scrap first.

Beware...super glue degrades and breaks down over time. Super glue is not a permanent or professional fix. It's not archival... Smithsonian models are not allowed to be built using any super glue.

#1490 3 days ago

Just for context I have an ECLE WOZ , playfield is fine

#1491 3 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

The notion that JJP is "getting away with shit" as if they engineered this intentionally and are scheming to ruin your experience is what I take issue with.
If you have empathy and see the other side of the issue you will see that they are doing what they can to do right by their customers.

It doesn't make a shit to me because I will never buy another JJP game because he burned me on a WOZ years ago but I have to disagree with you. Jacks games were having issues starting with WOZ. My PF started chipping at 100 games or less and when I demanded another PF he sent me a reject. Jacks games are still having issues and he has done nothing about them by the 5th game, and he is giving out PFs with the same issues to shut people up. Jack is knowingly and purposely selling you guys a defective product. But, nothing will be done about it and most here will continue to buy, this thread will be forgotten and others just like it will come up rinse and repeat.

#1492 3 days ago

Following!

#1493 3 days ago
Quoted from Goronic:

This thread got me worried about my hobbit play field so I gave it a close inspection and did not find any issues anywhere on the play field. Are there widespread issues with the hobbit play fields too?

I own one. The playfield looks like a dimplefest orgy (oh well) but the clear started to crack around the holes so I installed Cliffys. Everything else is solid on it. It's a BA edition so a later run but I have yet to see anyone with a Hobbit dealing with clear coat pooling around the posts or chipping around the posts either.

#1494 3 days ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

I own one. The playfield looks like a dimplefest orgy (oh well) but the clear started to crack around the holes so I installed Cliffys. Everything else is solid on it. It's a BA edition so a later run but I have yet to see anyone with a Hobbit dealing with clear coat pooling around the posts or chipping around the posts either.

Mine is a Smaug Edition - and I also don't have alot of dimpling either. Maybe the PFs that had issues came about around the BA edition time frame? Or once in a (farily often) while someone gets a bad PF while others are lucky and get a good one.

#1495 3 days ago
Quoted from Soulrider911:

Just for context I have an ECLE WOZ , playfield is fine

I've have/had two WOZ, both had playfield issues, different playfield manufactures and games made maybe 4 years apart. Different wear/chipping areas. JJP does not have a solid reputation with playfields. In fact, it sounds like almost all of their games have had pretty significant issues with playfield wear. So I'm really not sure how Jack is so strongly set that it is the production line.

Why did DI get hole protectors? I am just assuming because they had significant wear issues around the holes, I am wondering what made it so JJP needed to offer those. And what no one else can answer is why not put them on all the games then? It still blows my mind.

Tangentially... on my mind.

I wonder how much of this thread and others like it gets reported back to JJP. I have to assume some of the employees are following along. I know Jen has been logged in recently and as far as I know she is still head of PR. Although I don't really know what JJP's PR strategy is. As far as I know there is no newsletter sent out, no updates when code changes sent to owners, nothing has ever been sent to their email list since I joined 2-3 years ago (and have subsequently joined several more times just to be sure). I've never been able to fix an access issue with the Google groups, Jen even confirmed I have access, but from what I hear it's mostly like here. It's somewhat astonishing that there isn't more of a media presence from JJP here, this must be the most centralized audience (aside from their customer list, which doesn't really seem utilized). I know they post on Instagram and I see code update announcements there once in a while (don't think I ever saw a Pirates one, but the definitely announced the Wonka one).

Are there emails that go out at all? Has anyone ever gotten one? JJP, do you need a social media and customer communications person? I'm available!

Ugh, I wish they just go ahead of their press and customer service. Who actually knows there is a snubber bracket replacement for the game and if you have the old one or not?

#1496 3 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Beware...super glue degrades and breaks down over time. Super glue is not a permanent or professional fix. It's not archival... Smithsonian models are not allowed to be built using any super glue.

Is it going to harm anything on a play field? If so, I will edit my post.

#1497 3 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Is it going to harm anything on a play field? If so, I will edit my post.

Personally I used auto clear, painted on slowly. I had to rebuild the back of my winky target on WOZ (and my munchkin playfield is beat to crap and missing a bunch of clear). It didn't make it look great (I didn't want to try and sand those areas too much) but it's solid and protected. If you don't have auto clear and don't want to buy the components SprayMax 2X is a good option. It's 2 part clear in a can.

#1498 3 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Personally I used auto clear, painted on slowly. I had to rebuild the back of my winky target on WOZ (and my munchkin playfield is beat to crap and missing a bunch of clear). It didn't make it look great (I didn't want to try and sand those areas too much) but it's solid and protected. If you don't have auto clear and don't want to buy the components SprayMax 2X is a good option. It's 2 part clear in a can.

I have a supply of clear. Two years ago when I got my play field back from the restorer and was doing some work on it, for some reason I have a reasonably larger chuck of clear peel off in the apron area. At the break point the clear still on the play field had foggy look. I hooked a fingernail and pulled another chuck off. And the now new edge of the clear in the apron area had that foggy look, as well. I'm freaking out as I can just see the clear on my play field keep delaminating. I had to get that clear locked down. Fast. Superglue did the trick. For a chip at the edge of the play field I would agree that dobbing on some clear is the way to go.

However, I cannot see SprayMax 2 as a good touch option. I have never used SprayMax 2 and I am assuming that you have to activate the entire can kit for it to work. If my assumption is correct then SprayMax 2 would be an expensive touch up option. But I will correct myself if SprayMax2 can be mixed in small quantities.

#1499 3 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I have a supply of clear. Two years ago when I got my play field back from the restorer and was doing some work on it, for some reason I have a reasonably larger chuck of clear peel off in the apron area. At the break point the clear still on the play field had foggy look. I hooked a fingernail and pulled another chuck off. And the now new edge of the clear in the apron area had that foggy look, as well. I'm freaking out as I can just see the clear on my play field keep delaminating. I had to get that clear locked down. Fast. Superglue did the trick. For a chip at the edge of the play field I would agree that dobbing on some clear is the way to go.
However, I cannot see SprayMax 2 as a good touch option. I have never used SprayMax 2 and I am assuming that you have to activate the entire can kit for it to work. If my assumption is correct then SprayMax 2 would be an expensive touch up option. But I will correct myself if SprayMax2 can be mixed in small quantities.

The can activation time is 2 days printed on the can. I had a can in my fridge for 2-4 weeks and it still worked. If you put it in the fridge you can at least get a week out of it.

#1500 3 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

The can activation time is 2 days printed on the can. I had a can in my fridge for 2-4 weeks and it still worked. If you put it in the fridge you can at least get a week out of it.

Hmm I did not know that thanks! I have had 3 cans of this and feared starting the project unless I was certain I could finish in hours. Thanks man!

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