(Topic ID: 242867)

PoTC - Who has playfield cracking & wear around sling posts?


By harryhoudini

37 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 1,271 posts
  • 117 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by gumnut01
  • Topic is favorited by 36 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“What kind of issues are you seeing?”

  • I have visible dimples but no chipping 21 votes
    18%
  • I can see chipping but haven't done anything yet 40 votes
    33%
  • I can see chipping and installed mylar, washer and/or larger star post 17 votes
    14%
  • My playfield looks fine (but I haven't removed the star posts) 21 votes
    18%
  • I removed the star posts and my playfield looks fine 11 votes
    9%
  • My game had clear washers installed from the factory 10 votes
    8%

(Multiple choice - 120 votes by 115 Pinsiders)

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Topic index (key posts)

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There are 1271 posts in this topic. You are on page 24 of 26.
#1151 7 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I specifically reached out to Mirco to allow them to comment, be aware of the issues, etc. They did not reply (even though we had an ongoing chat communication). I suppose they probably are better staying silent than sullying their reputation with JJP. I imagine that even though this is likely a lot of their issue they won't get much flack or backlash at all. They still make playfields people want/need so what are you going to do?

Since mirco is not the one who sold you (or warranties) the product it would not be proper for him to speak out of turn for jjp as it could open up new problems.

#1152 7 days ago

Well Mirco could explain he had problems with his robots or bad cans of clear. Personally do not think Jack or others would silence him.

#1153 7 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Since mirco is not the one who sold you (or warranties) the product it would not be proper for him to speak out of turn for jjp as it could open up new problems.

It has his logo on it, that'd be a concern for me if I were a business owner. Reputation is valued.

I didn't think they would comment, but the offer was made and they are at least aware even if JJP never told them.

#1154 7 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

This is like saying Chevy needs to invest in Chip Foose (or any other custom car builder). You can't take a custom job like Kruzman's MULTIPLE week and months process and think the mass producers need to 'just do what he's doing'.
They are apples and oranges. Kruzman can't do 500+ PFs a month... he can't even do a handful in volume.
It's just pissing in the wind... to compare a custom, hand nurtuered, slow cure, multi-stage process with mass production. It doesn't work for cars... it doesn't work for pinball either.

Well, ihave a friend with an original mm.
He doesnt have any chipping, so maybe chevy needs to go back to doing what they did 20 years ago.
This ofc also make The argument of there are too many boards having to be made completely invalid.

#1155 7 days ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

Sorry to say, i don't understand what you mean?
You mean there are trouble keeping The license going?
What Will this mean regarding future availability for spare parts?

Or in short in regards to licensing and playfields.
Will anybody who wants to produce spare playfields and sideart in five to ten years, be f'ed in the a by disney attorneys?

#1156 7 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Oh damn! That is not good. Can you keep us updated as to what happens with the playfield and if JJP does/says anything? Did you alert them?

They are sending a second post update kit which is same as potc for ybr

#1157 7 days ago
Quoted from Ilushka85:

They are sending a second post update kit which is same as potc for ybr

Don’t use nylon washers. Get yourselves neoprene rubber.

#1158 7 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Since mirco is not the one who sold you (or warranties) the product it would not be proper for him to speak out of turn for jjp as it could open up new problems.

Hasn't stopped him in the past, when he shits on Others Quality products

#1159 7 days ago
Quoted from gumnut01:

Don’t use nylon washers. Get yourselves neoprene rubber.

Doesn´t neoprene get dry and crack over time?
Whatabout fiber washers?

#1160 7 days ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

Doesn´t neoprene get dry and crack over time?
Whatabout fiber washers?

Ok in 5 years you may have to swap the rubber out!

#1161 7 days ago

From the Beatles thread:

b01868474e184527ebf6d71f99885658406df277.jpeg (resized).jpg

From the TNA thread:

fb00b10cb971ae64cfed7f404e9aa8fd70e31bfe (resized).jpg

#1162 7 days ago

wow

#1163 7 days ago
Quoted from solarvalue:

From the Beatles thread:
[quoted image]
From the TNA thread:
[quoted image]

My understanding is spooky has replaced pf’s on their dime.

Based on prior experience with Stern, I think they will as well.

#1164 7 days ago
Quoted from solarvalue:

From the Beatles thread:
[quoted image]
From the TNA thread:
[quoted image]

Jesus christ..

#1165 7 days ago

Its time to go back to Diamond plate all new technicks fails.

#1166 7 days ago

No dog in this race, but an observation from past experience... TL;DR

I think there may be a problem with the DTS digital printing and the proces of adding clear on top of it. When I worked at Grimes Aerospace, we were using an aerospace developed, hi temp silicone clear base infused with transparent colorants, which were either specfic pigmented material being locked into the matrix, or, if it was a chromatic dye, one that changed the spectral absorbtion of the actual clear base, but either way, they disrupted the adhesion process to the substrate material. If faced with trying to figure this out, I would say they need to look at the bonding strength of the artwork layer, the bonding strength of clear coat to the artwork layer, and the change in density across the layers. When the clear is bonded over the artwork layer, this “system” now has to rely on the bond strength of the pigmented artwork layer to the wood substrate for ALL of it’s mechanical bonding properties. Now at first, the clear is flexible, not fully cured, meaning all the chemicals in the clear coat preventing complete cross-linking of the long chained molecules has not vaporized yet. The physical force of the posts sharp edges provides the proper “preload” and as the clear finally cures to a hardened state, there are forces in the mix that intensify the strain on the wood/artwork bond, and when it fails, the resulting delamination spreads from the point of the force causing the clear coat deformation. Anyone serious about solving this issue needs to look at this as a system, not as individual processes that may or may not have a big contributing factor to the phenomena. This would require at least 4 to 5 months of R&D to totally understand all the variables and how to control them, and I don’t see a pinball manufacturer spending that kind of time and money to figure this out, unless your entire company reputation rested on it... the scientific method works, but it ain’t cheap.

#1167 7 days ago

Wow...thats some scary crap on Beatles...this issue has become like the movie "Outbreak"... everyone that bought a game in the last year or two? Has got to wonder if they are infected.

#1168 7 days ago

At this rate we will need a PlayfieldCare+ warranty similar to what Apple sells for their devices!

#1169 7 days ago

meh... just playing golf for the rest of the summer.

#1170 7 days ago

Anyone else going to look under the other posts in the game? Wondering if there will be any coordinated contact of JJP.

#1171 7 days ago

I have playfield cracks and wear around more than just the slings. This is getting a bit out of hand.

You nay sayers still ok with this?

Looks like to me that someone sanded down this post. I may be wrong, it may have the look for some other reason, but it feels like it and looks like it.

So now what?

Btw, I was tempted to put star posts at the front of the chapter select but I loathe changing games from their original. So I used some black nylon washers just larger than the depression in the playfield. My hopes is that it actually pushes the clear back down flat. I really have no other choice at this point except star posts and rubber washers all around.

And let's not mention the map hole bracket.

Yay, my playfield is falling apart.
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#1172 7 days ago


Quoted from harryhoudini:I have playfield cracks and wear around more than just the slings. This is getting a bit out of hand.
You nay sayers still ok with this?
Looks like to me that someone sanded down this post. I may be wrong, it may have the look for some other reason, but it feels like it and looks like it.
So now what?
Btw, I was tempted to put star posts at the front of the chapter select but I loathe changing games from their original. So I used some black nylon washers just larger than the depression in the playfield. My hopes is that it actually pushes the clear back down flat. I really have no other choice at this point except star posts and rubber washers all around.
And let's not mention the map hole bracket.
Yay, my playfield is falling apart.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

What in the...?!?!?!?

#1173 7 days ago

All discovered while I'm replacing the bashed opto on the BP (seems like a bad design, imho) and the failed chest bracket (wasn't attached to the PF securely, loose screws, so one mounting tab broke off). Rubbers were falling apart (seems pretty soon even with so many plays) so had to replace those. Doing the cliffy install so I get less wear, trimming down the t-nut and the right backboard angle bracket (see this? https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jjpirates-of-the-caribbean-troubleshooting-tips-issues/page/31#post-5042590). Going to replace the sling plastics with my spare now that they are protected with mylar and raised above the cursed screw. Added those nylon nuts under all of the narrow posts. Added colored nuts on the plastics with nylon washers under. Might do a custom light install inside the chest... maybe RGB controlled LED strip with some flickering/heart beat antics.

All in a day's work.

#1174 7 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I have playfield cracks and wear around more than just the slings. This is getting a bit out of hand.
You nay sayers still ok with this?
Looks like to me that someone sanded down this post. I may be wrong, it may have the look for some other reason, but it feels like it and looks like it.
So now what?
Btw, I was tempted to put star posts at the front of the chapter select but I loathe changing games from their original. So I used some black nylon washers just larger than the depression in the playfield. My hopes is that it actually pushes the clear back down flat. I really have no other choice at this point except star posts and rubber washers all around.
And let's not mention the map hole bracket.
Yay, my playfield is falling apart.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Ya the two bolt holes on the map hole looked similar to mine when I took it apart to put on the cliffy. Not as bad but still dug in, lifted black border; I was able to push/smooth down a bit before reassembly.

On the plus side, taking out the tnut and grinding down was a lot easier than expected *shrug*

#1175 7 days ago
Quoted from tgrinchy:

Ya the two bolt holes on the map hole looked similar to mine when I took it apart to put on the cliffy. Not as bad but still dug in, lifted black border; I was able to push/smooth down a bit before reassembly.
On the plus side, taking out the tnut and grinding down was a lot easier than expected *shrug*

Well, I have most of the parts off the playfield, lol. Might as well remove some from under it as well.

-2
#1176 7 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Well, I have most of the parts off the playfield, lol. Might as well remove some from under it as well.

Do you play your game at all?

#1177 7 days ago
Quoted from kcZ:

Do you play your game at all?

Did you read his post at all?

How can you play it when the chest isn’t working nor the the BP optos? Plus he’s installing cliffys.

#1178 7 days ago
Quoted from kcZ:

Do you play your game at all?

He seems pretty busy unfuckering his game. I'd imagine he'd like to play, more than repair.

#1179 7 days ago

is this why 7?!?!!!! have been up for sale just on Pinside in the last 12 days?

7 potc (resized).JPG
#1180 7 days ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

is this why 7?!?!!!! have been up for sale just on Pinside in the last 12 days?[quoted image]

Expect a bunch of reasons including profiteering front and center.

#1181 7 days ago
Quoted from cheshirefilms:

profiteering front and center.

For sure.

roses-are-red-chocolate-makes-you-fat-acostanzagrams-not-that-14978580 (resized).png
#1182 7 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

You really think they tackle these choices completely in the dark or randomly? These guys aren’t rookies... no need to tell them how to crawl as if it’s some relevation they better adhere to. Give them some credit.

I never called them rookies however the clear they are producing is junk. Just junk. Maybe they have talked to the companies I listed. If so it is time to go back to the drawing board and maybe reach out again. The current clear has to be the worst clear in the last 30-40 years. Maybe the worst ever on pinball PF. They may not be rookies but I will call them hacks for what they are letting out their doors.

#1183 7 days ago

If people are selling to make a profit they are losing out on an awesome game. And if they are selling because of this then that is short sighted, the game still plays and there are some preventative measures. Now, if it gets way worse over time, that is an issue.

How would people feel about hardtop replacements for the game? Sort of like rad cals, it would be an official JJP product and maybe even GIVEN to those of us with issues. It could have a new clearcoat and would mean only partial disassembly to install. Heck, maybe even a custom edition.

I actually just took my game apart over the last day or two. We've been playing it without the BP right opto and the chest banging around. And the ball getting directed into the BP when it shouldn't. No worries!

I'm rebuilding my JP and TOM at the same time so didn't want to take it apart before I had time to do this stuff. Putting protective sleeve on the BP wiring harness, etc.

Btw, the BP is so easy to remove compared to the Castle playfield on WOZ. JJP did an awesome job with the connectors, although my mini connectors weren't color coded so I did that myself with paint pens.

#1184 7 days ago

Are there any playfields that were correctly produced, or are all owners eventually going to require some unfuckering due to a systemic faulty process?

In other words, is it just a matter of time, or did some owners just get lucky with a perfect pf?

#1185 7 days ago

I love this game... who has one for sale under $5500 yet?

#1186 7 days ago

Doesn't Mirco build these playfields? I would think he can produce a quality playfield.

#1187 7 days ago
Quoted from kcZ:

Doesn't Mirco build these playfields? I would think he can produce a quality playfield.

Doesn’t appear that he can....we are waiting for their response.

#1188 7 days ago
Quoted from RTS:

Are there any playfields that were correctly produced, or are all owners eventually going to require some unfuckering due to a systemic faulty process?
In other words, is it just a matter of time, or did some owners just get lucky with a perfect pf?

We really have no way to know unless someone more intimately familiar with the supply chain at JJP can comment or someone here knows about their production runs. I would imagine there would be no change by Mirco during a run of playfields. It would be astounding if they did notice an issue and produced some different playfields for newer machines, that would be epic actually.

Even the most experienced pinheads and clear coaters can only speculate as to what will happen with this playfield in the future. Will all of these issues be limited to under posts and covered by washers? Or will other issues arise from the clear being soft and end up with more damage that can't be covered?

#1189 7 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I have playfield cracks and wear around more than just the slings. This is getting a bit out of hand.
You nay sayers still ok with this?

If you keep looking for problems, you're going to keep finding them.

I advise one of two courses of action:

1. Play the game. Get the spare playfield, and don't let any blemish, scuff, chip or crack bother you.
2. Sell it. It will be snapped up quickly and you'll have a stressor out of your life.

As a fan of playing the game, I suggest #1.

#1190 7 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

If you keep looking for problems, you're going to keep finding them.
I advise one of two courses of action:
1. Play the game. Get the spare playfield, and don't let any blemish, scuff, chip or crack bother you.
2. Sell it. It will be snapped up quickly and you'll have a stressor out of your life.
As a fan of playing the game, I suggest #1.

Could get a spare and have one of the masters clear it, and have an amazing swap down the line.

#1191 7 days ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

Well, ihave a friend with an original mm.
He doesnt have any chipping, so maybe chevy needs to go back to doing what they did 20 years ago.

We can't use the same chemicals and materials used 25yrs ago...

#1192 7 days ago
Quoted from dts:

Could get a spare and have one of the masters clear it, and have an amazing swap down the line.

So if one were to go this route we are looking at $550 for the PF, $1500 for the swap by a pro and I’m guessing $1000+ for the clear.

I think I’d rather buy another game that doesn’t have all these issues.

#1193 7 days ago
Quoted from dts:

Could get a spare and have one of the masters clear it, and have an amazing swap down the line.

Plus technology may improve by the time you want to swap it.

#1194 7 days ago
Quoted from Psw757:

One of the guys here got a quote for this yesterday. $1500-2k by one of the top guys and that doesn’t include the swap.

Ouch! That is too much.

#1195 7 days ago
Quoted from dts:

Ouch! That is too much.

The quote was for a timely professional pf swap, made a typo. I’m guessing a really good clear coat is a minimum of $1000. This isn’t cheap and one would hope this doesn’t need to be done.

#1196 7 days ago
Quoted from Psw757:

The quote was for a timely professional pf swap, made a typo. I’m guessing a really good clear coat is a minimum of $1000. This isn’t cheap and one would hope this doesn’t need to be done.

Just spoke with one of the best, $600 to clear. But he qualified, if the issue is how the ink adhered to the playfield, a better clear doesn't guarantee that it won't chip in the future. My take is like zaphX, just have fun with it and get an extra playfield if concerned.

#1197 7 days ago
Quoted from dts:

Just spoke with one of the best, $600 to clear. But he qualified, if the issue is how the ink adhered to the playfield, a better clear doesn't guarantee that it won't chip in the future. My take is like zaphX, just have fun with it and get an extra playfield if concerned.

Who gave that quote?

#1198 7 days ago

I'll PM you on that

#1199 7 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

We can't use the same chemicals and materials used 25yrs ago...

Agreed. However this didn’t seem to be happening as little as 10 years ago. This seems like something that has changed in the last 5-10 years or so. We shouldn’t be going backwards from 5-10 years ago.

#1200 7 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Well, I have most of the parts off the playfield, lol. Might as well remove some from under it as well.

When was your build date Harry?

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