I wasn’t suggesting that this was why they were asking but that was my hope.

I’m sure I’m wrong but someone who has chipping at slings and elsewhere should be compensated a bit more than someone who has a ripple on one post or nothing at all yet.

Like I said, I’m sure I’m wrong.

That is terrible News. If wonka comes up with the same problems.
Alarmbells should be ringning, if they aren't allready.
I'm as a potential customer is certainly alarmed.

Wonka uses star posts

Guess it might be time to add a YBR and Wonka playfield cracking around posts and sling post thread.

So then it might only be cracked playfields around holes and in the outlanes.
How is that in any way reassuring

My lord are you serious, this is totally unacceptable no matter what anyone says... the amount of money for these machines is a small fortune for many of us.

Now I get mistakes happen and I am very understanding when they do – I have been waiting 3 months for a new WH20 cabinet I ordered and it made wrong, and the replacement still has not come – but in the JJP scenario seems they do not want to actually take any responsibility for this.

What if you went out and bought that 200k Bentley you saved half a lifetime for. On day 30 of owning the car you got your gold chain around your neck, your new deep V-neck on ready to impress... and you notice the clear is cracking and falling apart

You think Bentley would be like... "oh we will give you half off on getting the entire car re-cleared, only cost you about 25k? LOL

I would really love to see a public comment from The company, surely this hasn't gone unnoticed.

Wow...

Sorry, but this is damn near idiotic and unfathomable at this point.
How MANY of these posts still exist at JJP?

You would really hope so, right?

i 'wonder' if robin would go to 'bat' for you guys.

2k clear cures very quickly. The clear is cured but with that edge and cranked down posts the clear has no chance of surviving.

My LE has ripples around posts (was like this from day 1 when I got it NIB) but no cracking and has the factory supplied, clear washers under the posts. With the contents of the fix kit released, would the suggestion be to remove the clear washers and swap out with the new, smaller ("gen2" someone mentioned) black semi-hard washers vs. using neoprene?

A bit confused on best course of action; I suppose that's the whole problem as no one really knows. Perhaps a new question is are the new JJP washers going to trump the neoprene washers?

Edit - Found the service bulletin here: http://marketing.jerseyjackpinball.com/potc/Service%20Bulletin%20P-1%20POTC%20Post%20Update%20Kit.pdf

Doesn't particularly mention using the new black washer ILO the clear

Our pirates, Batman 66, Beatles gold, and now black knight are doing the same thing!

if it were a quality issue popping up.. that would come AFTER you've already sourced all the parts... which means you wouldn't want to eat the cost of all that inventory, so you'd keep building to run them out... not stop there. If it were just playfields... they'd have to decide to replace them or roll with it. Stopping because of PFs isn't viable... due to all the other inventory sunk cost.

So what’s going on? Is this all coming back to micro?

I’ve just bought a whole bunch of neoprene rubber. The m8 rubber under my double star posts are the same diameter as the stars. Don’t stick out. They squashed down all ripples that were there and have not cut in since they are soft. I don’t think nylon will be as gentle. They also provide surface grip, meaning the star post is not going to move and no abrasion to the playfield underneath.

I have bought another 50 m5 and m6 rubber washers. The m5 are the exact same diameter as the standard clear post. The m6 gives an additional 2mm diameter to hide any extra chipping. These washers are only 5mm and 6mm internal diameter respectively. So the whole post is sitting on these guys, not just the edge. They are only 1mm thick and will compress nicely.

I am going to fix spots as I need to.

In terms of playfield replacement, maybe I pass if I am buying the same product. I might regret it later. It’s not so much paying for a new one. Let’s face it the middle of the playfield is fine. It’s just around the posts. It’s the problem of buying the same.

I know I said I was not going to post here again, but this seems to be a bigger issue which is plaguing other manufacturers. Who else can JJP use? I’m ignorant and don’t know what other playfield manufacturers there are.

Lastly, I shall say it again the double star posts with m8 rubber washers underneath that have had their grooves dremmelled deeper to match the same thickness as the original posts solves all issues around the slings. Stable, protected, normal sling power, no air balls, no hammer escapes. Pictures exist pages back. Harry maybe you can key this post?

One last thing, a hard nylon washer is not going to perform well. I would advise using rubber washers instead.

The Batman pic is earlier in this thread, will take pics of Beatles and black knight tomorrow

Might the “best” solution then be to snatch up a pf at 50% off and send it off for a proper cure?

Money be damned, but this is starting to appear NOT to be an issue with JJP and Pirates exclusively after all.

But this is because not many people are looking so hard for these problems, as I tried to point out in my previous post. But then you all got very upset and did not read my post right or I did not do the wording right.

I read a lot of your posts (harry) and you do amazing stuff with mods and think really creatively with your machines and if you do that, you will see much more problems with the machines as other people that are not that involved. If you then point them out for that one game, everybody with that game goes looking for problems and sure enough will find them. But as I said before, the problem with pinball is that the steel ball will break stuff. Sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. It is like with a telephone. I can drop it 10 times no problem and my friend drops it once and it shatters to pieces. Same phone.

Again - please read on - I do think that when parts of the artwork just come off of the playfield, that is not normal. But you would be surprised how many problems like these there are on all pinball machines if you go looking for them.

That’s not the point. There are steps we can take to reduce the problem. I don’t have this happen on any other machine. If this is the future if all pinball machines lets be ready to address it. Whinging about JJP is no longer helpful. Nor is saying shit happens. Why wouldn’t you take steps to make sure damage does not happen? Go tell all the people with TNA that they don’t have issues.

Let it be clear... I’m in the “camp” that Micro is to blame. (No pun intended there..haha..wow!)

Not JJP, Stern, or Spooky.

But I’ll gladly pick up a spare pf at 50% considering the CE pfs “were sold out.” Given that, it’s actually a very lucky scenario.

Lucky? Your kidding me.

You guys are way too easy, wow. Truly our own worst enemy to accept shit like this.

I really don’t want a pf, or a swap or having to send it out for a proper clear. I consider all of this misfortune not good luck.

Keep it context -

For someone considering another pf when they were gone, they are back now.

It’s 100% separate from this and a coincidence.

“THIS” is pretty much unacceptable.

Stern doesn't use Mirco, so the picture of the BM66 playfield proves that this problem is not confined to Mirco playfields. As we now have reports of artwork lifting around sling posts on BM66, Beatles, BKSOR (Stern), TNA (Spooky) and JJPOTC, YBR (JJP), it may be a general issue with digitally printed playfields which all these companies are now using.

Perhaps. Wow! Did not know this.

Might be right but there"s two things I think you're not taking into accoint.
1.) When the supplier says MUST use hole protectors or the clear will crack and chip (game ships without them)
And
2.) The clear coat is intentionally made soft and the clear coat rolls (and pulls up artwork) installing a post?
JJP needs to tell Mirco his ass is on the line and either he fixes his bullshit clear jobs or he'll take the business else where.
My hobbit clear job looks like a golf ball and the holes started to crack so I added Cliffys.
Good ole Mirco clear jobs I tell ya.

Jack needs to invest in Ron Kruzman. That guy is a God of clear coating. Mirco can make the playfield and Ron can clear coat em. Oh, I also have a routed and well played LOTR. NO ball dents. Kruzman clear job... ~100 plays still like glass and no divots. Pun intended clearly not all clear coats are equal. By saying nothing, nothing changes. The so called fix is a band aid while the real problem is the clear itself and last time I checked that's every where. Expected to pay for a new playfield is bad enough but being on the hook for swapping it too? Ouch guys that's taking it s bit too far. The car anology is the best. You bought a Ferrari and the paint is coming off and your handed a bandaid to stop the peeling? Seriously guys step up and make some noise because if you dont it's literally setting a precedence for future machines.

If I find out Harry Potter or Toy Story 4 is being made I WILL demand a bare inked playfield is sent to Ron Kruzman and then shipped to JJP for install.

I’ll Defer to the pros on this like Ron Kruzman I bet he would beg to differ with you... the reality is there is no way JJP or mirco would let a playfield sit for 2-4 months to properly cure. So things like this happen if they don’t plan for the k own scenario... attaching elements to the playfield basically too soon.

Can the guy who did the "Fix my playfield, Stern" and "Where's the code Stern?" do a similar graphic for this?

This is like saying Chevy needs to invest in Chip Foose (or any other custom car builder). You can't take a custom job like Kruzman's MULTIPLE week and months process and think the mass producers need to 'just do what he's doing'.

They are apples and oranges. Kruzman can't do 500+ PFs a month... he can't even do a handful in volume.

It's just pissing in the wind... to compare a custom, hand nurtuered, slow cure, multi-stage process with mass production. It doesn't work for cars... it doesn't work for pinball either.

Now That is a realistic statement. Granted I would love Chip Foose to do my Honda Accord! lol

PotCLE 5k by Christmas

Just asking, do you guys ever play the game or just seek out things to obsess about?

I don’t even own one I’m pre obsessing thank you

As one of the pioneers using uv inkjet production the last 10+ years. So far have not had these results. Mirco seems very silent here about the issues. I have since day 1 explained the process I & my contractors use. Even Rick from PPS steered me towards 2 hits of color & white, & single hit of blocking for backglass production 6 years ago. Charlie Emery when asked kept this info to himself when I started only single hits of color, white & blocking for backglass. Still my contractors are using old printing equipment, colorspan retired, & my backglass & playfields are done on 9+ year old OCE printer. I have always used Waterbourne Varethane interior gloss to seal the playfields (2 coats), & most auto clear is fine unless they quickly apply a second heavy coat before curing. In which case usually the black ink curdles up. Other producers of new playfields keep their secret formula of production quiet, I show & explain what I do even failures over the years. I am still in production of classic Stern playfields & backglass after Mirco antics in April.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mirco-exclusive-classic-stern-parts-manufacturer

You really think they tackle these choices completely in the dark or randomly? These guys aren’t rookies... no need to tell them how to crawl as if it’s some relevation they better adhere to. Give them some credit.