Ok dremmelled the shit out of these posts. The first photo shows the original post in front of the doubles. You can see the dremmelled side. The next two show close ups of sling corners. Then if the whole area after. Lastly in comparison to original post height. Hopefully this makes a difference. Let you know.

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Had a few games. It works, no air balls. Slings are no longer supercharged. So our theory was correct. Width of a star post with rubber base down the bottom to hide ripples and stop cracking. Height and width of original post’s rubber notch to stop air balls, hammer escapes etc. Unless you deepen the double star posts grooves the hammer is travelling further without the sling slowing it down. When it at last hits the sling rubber it hits with way more force. Once the sling rubber is brought back closer to the hammer by dremmelling the grooves, it brings the hammer speed back down to normal spec.

Hopefully I never have to post on this thread again!! (That would be a community service!)

I still haven’t had any issues using the regular star posts but you have me wondering if I should Dremel the rubber notch as well. I did reduce power on the slings to the min setting and are still plenty active.

Here’s the attachment I used. Besides going deeper, make the groove wider. I took a bit more off the top than the bottom. You don’t want the sling to sit lower than the supplied post. This is assuming you are using the lower rung of a double post. You want to do a straight section along where the slings are facing the playfield and a slight bit as it curves around. All in all your doing a bit over a quarter of it. Check the photo in my other post as to how much I took off. I also took a little off the top right post on the other side that faces the top of the “A” inlane. It doesn’t matter if it does not look that pretty. The sling rubber covers it. Test it out on a old star post first and use the supplied posts as a guide. The ball still touches the rubber if you lean a ball against it. It does not touch the thicker base. Unless JJP fabricate a totally new post which is thick at the bottom but thin where the sling sits, I can think of no other solution. I can take photos of the completed slings with the plastics. I can also take photos of the posts without the slings.
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I received my post repair kit from JJP yesterday, single grove star post and one little and big plastic washer. No instructions yet

Oooh. Can we see?

Unreal....this is not exactly what I was told.

I wonder what happened to the soft washer?

Bigger hard Plastic washer under star post will leave a crater.

I didn't take it out of the bag yet....They felt firm to me. I will check it out tonight and report back.

Hmm. So if this ends up being the case, stick with the Lowe's neoprene washers?

Have to be honest, it’s rather disappointing that they either don’t really give a shit or think we are incredibly stupid.

If they are hard, that is not good if there is any bubbling or chipping existing. If not, you won’t have a chip just a crater in the future.

The other thing I’m now wondering about is are they std height star posts on top of a hard washer?
If yes, there will be hammer escape issues and possible PF damage from that occurring.

That’s what I’m thinking because it seems to be working on mine.

I’m just going to take a wild guess that because they are somewhat soft they compress a bit when tightened without sinking into PF. I still haven’t had hammer escapes with these washers.

Are all star posts from various vendors the same height? I got mine from Marco.

I would assume positive intent here. All the JJP folks have been nothing but helpful to me. They want us to enjoy their games.

I hear ya

However after all of us reported that the previous hard washers sunk in and created further chipping of the ripples in clearcoat,is this the best their engineering guys can come up with?

Shit..why was I told multiple times on the phone that one of the washer sets would be some sort of soft type?

Based on all the testing that we have all experimented with here on pinside, hard washers aren’t going to prevent further issues.

Yikes.

This issue is certainly....sumthin. Not sure as an owner, if I'm more amused, bemused or feeling used! The controversy and the legend of this game....CONTINUES!!!

I’m amused and entertained but kind of annoyed at the same time.

I can’t wait to hear of the first report of their fix kit fucking something up, it will really muddy the already muddy waters!

And in the end JJP is just trying to let as much time as possible pass knowing owners will just find a fix themselves. As long as the discussion isn’t about the clear on the PFs JJP is just thrilled. They were let off the hook on POTC.....no pun intended

Exactly, this really is all band aid repairs and the more time that goes by the less obligated JJp is to give a shit.

Really though big picture for them and their customers is why is this really happening to the clear.

What is the weak link?
Yeah those posts contributed but the premature wear in all those other locations have nothing to do with the posts.

Did we? Where did anyone show that the JJP gen1 (metal or polycarbonate) or user installed hard washers created *chipping*?

Ripples- check- chipping- hard to believe from a perfectly flat hard compressor.

While a soft washer makes the most sense from a "no rippling beyond the washer" perspective, but in theory the stability of the mechanism is reduced a bit vs. the hard washer- right? Its not ground into hard, its ground into soft... but in a home environment, is the hard-to-hard stability such a big deal. That's why I think we all preferred the soft fix most of all. Cosmetically in a home, its a slam dunk- that is, so long as the balls don't go airball city and the slings escape- which we've seen is a width problem as well as a height one.

I would think the hard washer could evidence some ripple but not chipping because there's no hard edge cutting downward from the unsanded, uneven posts, which was the cause of the chipping. And its not like the ball is going to roll over the tiny ripple in this area that the washers could cause.

Also- the thickness of the new JJP washers and the material used may affect the clearcoat less adversely than previous solutions in terms of creating "ripple." I definitely think we need to wait and see what was created before we get all barking mad about the service pack. I expect to have mine early next week.

The more interesting question is where and how deep is the groove on the JJP starposts vs. off-the-shelf starposts.

My hope is this is a lower groove custom starpost that's thinner in groove to keep the original alignment of the slings when mounted, similar to the dremelled one shown in posts above.

They are busy with Wonka.

I opened a case using the online support form yesterday and they shipped the kit today. This problem is listed in the form, so they seem to be organizing the fix effort a bit...
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http://marketing.jerseyjackpinball.com/potc/Service%20Bulletin%20P-1%20POTC%20Post%20Update%20Kit.pdf

Service bulletin RE: post update kit instructions

The official word was they were waiting on Butch to finalize the instructions for the kit before the announcement become official. Glad to see it, here. My hope is they're also about to drop 1.0 of the code to be ready to drop with lower sling power options, especially for the star post folks but honestly for everybody period.

Took down my slings today so this weekend temptation wont be in my path. -Pintel

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Frankly even a discounted PF is not right on a MANUFACTURER DEFECT. Never mind it would be an unpopulated PF. It’s like punishing owners for a problem JJP should be 100% responsible for. These are MANUFACTURER DEFECTS. Not normal wear and tear issues that wouldn’t be covered under a normal warranty. It’s a bad bad joke and shows you are not standing behind your product. For this reason I would never buy a NIB JJP pin. GOAT or not.

Everyone seriously needs to calm down in this thread. Jeez.

This isn’t the owners thread. Right? Where should people discuss issues or if a company stands behind their product? Oh that’s right...they shouldn’t discuss those things at all....Jeez is right....

I seriously would be upset if it was an LE. Freaking 12k. I feel bad.

They’ve made a very reasonable effort to make it right. It’s not realistic to expect more than this.

I really hope as people get their kits this thread cools off and people go enjoy their games. Or sell them. Lots of people want them if this issue is such an outrage.

It is not realistic to expect ANY company stand behind their own warranty on what are MANUFACTURER DEFECTS. They are not covering the PF defect because it would cost them so much money to make everyone whole. Not because it is not a manufacturer defect. It is not the customers problem if it is an expensive fix when the company screws up. It’s called right and wrong......They seem more than happy to help out on isolated issue because that won’t cost them much. But a wide spread defect that will cost JJP a lot to resolve they just ignore? Are you kidding me? It just not how good business operates.

I still wonder about the sling power/code update and how such an update could affect the single starpost fix.

I mean seriously, if they dial the slings down from 16 to say, "5-S" for starposts, could all these height and width considerations be accounted for in terms of reduced coil power?

As for my game, I took down the posts today along with the form fitting post washers to "remove temptation from my path" so I don't play this weekend till the kit comes.

I like the size of the black nylons relative to the 1st Gen post washer which was only exactly the size of the original posts, and am excited to install them.
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They aren't making "zero" effort. There have been two iterations of fixes. I still think we need to see if a new code drops soon lowering sling power through the floor to help accommodate the starposts.

What are they supposed to do? They can't replace chipped playfields with new populated playfields across the board. It's not reasonable. Each game they sell they 'make right' that way turns from profitable to a loss, instantly. And its not warranted for pure cosmetic that can be covered up, especially by posts, if the code reduces sling power to accommodate.

A discounted playfield is reasonable, and everyone has said it's coming so why keep throwing a fit over it. This would more than cover the 'lost value' or perceived thereof on a game you may never sell anyways.

Let’s say JJP offered PFs at cost and only charged for shipping. Even then the customer has to take everything off their PF and repopulate the new one. Spend the money for a new PF plus shipping. All for a manufacturer defect that the actual manufacturer should be 100% responsible for. It’s only how every other warranty for a high end product I have read works. JJP is responsible not the customers. They are going to offer discounted PFs. I hope that doesnt mean they will actually make money on replacement PFscause that’s nuts on a manufacturer defect.

No one said they weren't. But it's a commerical pinball machine. It plays the same even with the damage this issue caused. It didn't implode and become worth $0, or cause harm to the owner like a defective air bag system in a car.

So what's the reasonable remedy. A good faith credit toward next order? Or an at cost playfield?

I'd say the latter is more desirable to most, and that's what's happening. Also, you then get the opportunity to send the playfield to the clearcoat master of your choice and make it way-better than new when done. So it's not ALL bad, nor a swap you necessarily need to do today.

Gonna disengage for the weekend, and till there's a code update I don't think much new is gonna be revealed at this point, short of the discount playfield purchase program.

OK look. I never said the machine would implode, be worth zero or kill someone. Lol. What I am saying is the reasonable way MOST warranties work when dealing with a manufacturer defect. IMO it should cost the customers zero or next to nothing to get this fixed because the customers had nothing to do with causing the issues. And should we really have to send our new PFs out to be redone on a machine that cost 10-12K? No one forced JJP to charge these high prices. The cost can’t just be about deep code and taking risks in new pinball designs. Build quality and good warranties have to be included at these prices.

You don't appear to own this machine, so are you just here to stir the pot?

Is this the owners thread? I have played the game and think it is a great playing game. I think the build quality is not great and the clearcoat is not acceptable to the standard needed for a pinball machine. I mean how much would one even have to know about pinball to know a bad clearcoat on your PF is a really bad thing overall.I notice you don’t dispute or counterpoint the things I say. Instead you try to silence me. Why? If what I have said is incorrect then dispute it with facts. Everything I mentioned about warranty is the norm as far as coverage. How is that stirring the pot? I actually think the people who are letting these companies off the hook and not holding them accountable no matter what they do wrong are only hurting the quality of pins going forward. Some people just don’t want to look at the hard truth sometime. That’s OK. And I thought that was what the Owners Thread was for. All positive and no negative. This is an issue thread. This would actually be the thread for hard truths. Would it not.

That's just not how a warranty works on a pinball machine. Nor should it. It doesn't guarantee no dimples or flawless clearcoat impervious on the scoop holes, or even on the slings. If it plays, it pays. Now you think I joke but some defects or issues render a game unplayable. There the manufacturer usually steps in and replaces on a cost level during the warranty period. Everything else, well, the rest is about good customer service and PR.

I hear you about clearcoat quality standards, but as applied to this game and it's annoying and unfortunate, but also it's not the catastrophic issue across the board some friends of mine have made it seem to be- you'd think the playfield itself was going to collapse in on itself and the game shouldn't be bought for that reason.

Ok now I'm gonna tune out for real till next week from postgate..

Just filled out the form and immediately got the reply and shipping confirmation. Wow, that is service. No visible chipping on my game opened Christmas morning, but figured it's free prevention.

What form?

Thanks for the reasonable reply. Appreciated. I,m not here to start trouble. I have some knowledge of clearcoat from other industries and I just think if your PF clear even ripples it is a fail on a acceptable standard. I am not a guy who complains about dimples and wear at scoop holes but I draw the line at ripples, chipping and ghosting. As far as gameplay I have just seen PFs with bad clear end up with chips in places the ball would roll over and change direction due to missing clear. Hopefully the chips on POTC stay in places where the ball won’t roll over.

http://store.jerseyjackpinball.com/Support-Form/