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(Topic ID: 192189)

PotC flippers/coils go dead - SOLVED


By maffewl

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 34 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by BENETNATH
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 3 years ago

Hey everyone. I was just playing my Pirates of the Caribbean when mid-ball, the flippers and coils just went dead. No play out of the ordinary - just having a normal game. Then, almost like a tilt, but not a tilt, the flippers just stopped working. Then when the ball drained, the coil to put the ball into the shooter lane did nothing. I turned it off, and turned it back on, started a game, nothing - no flippers, no shooter lane upkicker, nothing. I pulled, tested, and replaced the fuse at F5. The original wasn't blown, and the new one is good to go. Still nothing.

I noticed on the board that the light for +18V L8 was lit (pic below), not sure if this is normal, or maybe a notification. The alligator clips are for my led backlight, so nothing out of the ordinary there.

The manual can be found here if it helps:
http://www.sternpinball.com/upload/games/225/d/443/Pirates_of_the_Caribbean_Manual.pdf

Any thoughts?

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#2 3 years ago

Bridge rectifier for high power go open and not blow fuse, but no power either ?

LTG : )

#3 3 years ago

Are your opto boards in the trough working? Don't think you can start a game if it doesn't detect the right number of balls.

#4 3 years ago

High power interlock on coin door working ? Open coin door, pull it out, see. Maybe flap on coin door is bent and not pushing it in enough, or coin door harness between switch and flap.

LTG : )

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Bridge rectifier for high power go open and not blow fuse, but no power either ?
LTG : )

Not sure what this means? Everything on the game appears fine, just no power to the flippers or other coils.

I just ran a coil cycle test, and none of the coils activated. However, I noticed a slight burn smell. I immediately shut the game off, and it turned out to be the ship sail coil (the larger of the two, not the smaller one that releases the sales, but the one that pulls them back up). Otherwise, no coils were activating, and the ship sail coil was very hot.

Quoted from Lermods:

Are your opto boards in the trough working? Don't think you can start a game if it doesn't detect the right number of balls.

The optos are good. You can see the red light, and as mentioned, I was playing a game. I've had zero issues with this machine until now. And this was all of the sudden. Mid-ball, mid-play... I can't think of anything out of the ordinary that could have triggered it.

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

High power interlock on coin door working ? Open coin door, pull it out, see. Maybe flap on coin door is bent and not pushing it in enough, or coin door harness between switch and flap.
LTG : )

Opening the door acts normal. It warns about disabling the power.

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from maffewl:

Not sure what this means?

If a bridge rectifier fails, one set of legs is usually shorted. Easy to see with a meter. If open, reads different, might not blow fuse, and doesn't work.

Have you pulled and checked other fuses with a meter ? Might be more than one fuse involved. If F5 is the right one for high power.

LTG : )

#8 3 years ago

Both the flippers and high power coils (trough eject, kickers, pops, etc) are powered by the same 50V DC supply.

AC comes from the transformer, through F5 to bridge rectifier 1 (BRDG1). From there, the flippers are fused at the fuse holders below the playfield and the coils by F7.

LED17 lights indicating the transformer is working and F5 is good
LED16 lights indicating the Bridge rectifier is working
LED15 lights indicating fuse F7 is good

If LED17 is lit but LED16 and LED15 are not, it points to Bridge rectifier #1 failure or associated traces on the driver board are bad.

If LED17 is NOT lit, check the wiring leading into the driver board (J11) and the large connector in the wiring leading from the transformer up to the backbox.

#9 3 years ago

I appreciate the help guys, I wouldn't be able to do it without this forum.

I took a pic of the board so that the lights are visible, attached below. This is with the machine turned on. With the machine turned off, only the light in the original post picture is lit.

I have now noticed that as soon as I turn on the machine, the sails coil energizes and locks on. It begins getting hot very quickly. And also tested fuse F10 since the light was off, and confirmed it is blown.

I found the other image below from the manual, though I don't know exactly how to read electrical diagrams. Does this mean I should test Q28 and BRDG2? If so, how would I go about doing this? (I have a digital multi-meter, just don't know what to touch where).

Help on where to look/test?

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#10 3 years ago

None of this is making sense. The 20v power supply that powers the coil that is locking on is the fuse F10 that is blown. So the coil should not have power.

For grins, can you disconnect the alligator clips for your light board and power up the game? BTW, I have that same light board in mine and love it!

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from maffewl:

I noticed on the board that the light for +18V L8 was lit (pic below), not sure if this is normal, or maybe a notification.

This is normal - the 18v supply has 30,000uf of filter capacitors. It takes a while to discharge the caps after you turn the machine off.

#12 3 years ago

K, I just removed the alligator clips. For giggles, I also completely removed fuse F10, and turned the machine on. No change, the sails coil still locks on and starts burning.

#13 3 years ago

Also, this is the correct sails coil that is being locked on. It's the 26-1200 sails coil, not the sails coil referenced in the diagram in the above post (29-1400).

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#14 3 years ago

OK, that is helpful. I was thinking it was the sail drop solenoid (the low power one). Can you disconnect the connector near the ship that leads to the sail drop and sail raise solenoids and try powering it up again? Thought being there might be a short in the wiring as it leads up through the ship.

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

OK, that is helpful. I was thinking it was the sail drop solenoid (the low power one). Can you disconnect the connector near the ship that leads to the sail drop and sail raise solenoids and try powering it up again? Thought being there might be a short in the wiring as it leads up through the ship.

So replace fuse F10, disconnect the coil connector, then power on? Is this with the thought that if the fuse doesn't blow, then it's likely a short in the wire from the connector to the ship?

Wait, thinking about it... fuse F10 was out when the ship coil locked on. If I disconnect the connector, that will remove power to the ship coil, but is there something I need to test while in this condition? I'm not sure what just undoing the connector would tell me? Can you clarify?

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from maffewl:

So replace fuse F10, disconnect the coil connector, then power on? Is this with the thought that if the fuse doesn't blow, then it's likely a short in the wire from the connector to the ship?
Wait, thinking about it... fuse F10 was out when the ship coil locked on. If I disconnect the connector, that will remove power to the ship coil, but is there something I need to test while in this condition? I'm not sure what just undoing the connector would tell me? Can you clarify?

Just trying to see if the game starts up with the ship connector removed. If F10 no longer blows and the flippers work, we have narrowed down the problem.

However, if the flippers still do not work, we can leave the machine on and test some things without starting your ship a-blaze.

When you power it up, pay attention to the other coils to see if any others are getting hot even with the ship solenoids disconnected.

#17 3 years ago

Sorry it's taken a few days, I've been away from home. I just tried the following:

1. There is no fuse in F10 (I removed it and haven't put a new one in).
2. Unplugged the ship coil.
3. Turned the game on.
4. The wires running to the ship coil are providing a solid 161V AC (picture below).

Any thoughts on what to test next?

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#18 3 years ago

I decided to go ahead and pull the board. I tested transistor Q5, and with the DMM set to continuity, I touched the two end legs at the same time. It buzzed showing continuity. No other transistor did this, so I'm assuming that means Q5 is bad, and will be ordering new transistors to replace. Q5 is a 22NE10L transistor, and from what I have read, I need to upgrade this to a IRL540N transistor. So that's what I plan on ordering. I still don't know what caused the fuse F10 to blow, but right now, I'll fix one thing at a time.

Any other thoughts, such as should I look at anything else up/down stream of Q5?

#19 3 years ago

Well, 161V AC at that connector is not a good thing. Lets hope your meter is acting goofy. Measure DC there.

Sounds like you have a shorted transistor that is locking that coil on. That shouldn't cause the other problems with the flipper dying but should be replaced.

With the ship connector removed, did any other coils heat up?

Were you able to start a game? Did the flippers work?

Can you replace F10 and see if it still blows?

#20 3 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

Well, 161V AC at that connector is not a good thing. Lets hope your meter is acting goofy. Measure DC there.
Sounds like you have a shorted transistor that is locking that coil on. That shouldn't cause the other problems with the flipper dying but should be replaced.
With the ship connector removed, did any other coils heat up?
Were you able to start a game? Did the flippers work?
Can you replace F10 and see if it still blows?

Schwaggs, I appreciate you staying with me here. Responses to your questions:

- No other coils were heating up.
- The game starts fine, just none of the solenoids/coils work. I would assume that's because there was no F10 fuse. It was stating on the screen that it was searching for pinballs (I removed them to lift the playfield). However, none of the ball search coils were firing, it was quiet, so I'm assuming the coils weren't working, again probably because of the missing fuse F10.
- I should have tried replacing the fuse just as a test, but have now pulled the board. I'll wait until I replace the transistor (ordered), and then I'll put the board back in and replace fuse F10.

Stay tuned.

#21 3 years ago

No problem!

The coils should have been working during ball search. The Failed F10 would cause the low power solenoids and flashers not to fire, it would not effect the high power solenoids so we still have something causing troubles. Can you post up clear pictures of both sides of the driver board?

While you have the board out, test all the various bridge rectifiers to make sure they are not causing the fuse to blow or the source of the flipper problem. The procedure to test is the same as described in this PinWiki article. http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Failed_Bridge_Rectifier

#22 3 years ago

Attached below are the pictures requested. I apparently need to study up a bit more on bridge rectifiers as either direction I went when placing the black lead on the negative and red lead on the on the various other 3 prongs, I got a number. I wouldn't think all rectifiers are bad, so I'll need to check if I'm doing that correctly. Please let me know if you see anything wrong with the board.

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1 week later
#23 3 years ago

I just replaced transistor Q5 with a IRL540N transistor, and replaced fuse F10 with a 5A slo-blo. All seems to be back to normal again.

I'm going to go ahead and replace the ship sail solenoid as well though. I noticed that when I play with the solenoid, such as pressing on it, or wiggling it, it would occasionally trigger. Wiggling the wires didn't do anything, it was only when I pressed on the physical solenoid itself (such as pressing/wiggling the wrapping paper, or pressing directly on the coil/wrapping paper).

Could transistor Q5 have blown Fuse F10? I'm not sure what blew it otherwise. All else seems fine, and going through the test menu, all coils worked as they should.

#24 3 years ago

Sorry, I missed your picture post last week. Your boards look GREAT!

Q5 is for the "raise sail" high power solenoid. It is a 50V coil fused by F8.

The "drop sail" solenoid is a low power solenoid. It is a 20V coil fused by F10.

The fact that Q5 failed shorted and blew F10 makes zero sense. That is why I asked you to disconnect the connector to both. I'm concerned there is a short in the wires going to these 2 solenoids as the wires are routed though the ship mechanism together. I would look carefully at these wires to see if something shorted from one circuit to the other or to the ship mechanism frame.

5 months later
#25 2 years ago

Hello,

did you sort this out? I just got a POTC, same symptoms.
my board pictures look the same, with L5 led off but all other ok

#26 2 years ago

My "raise ship sail" solenoid had a wire that leads to the lug (reddish orange wire that wraps around to form the solenoid) that had come loose. It had just the tiniest nick that was touching the metal of the ship frame causing a short. I had more issues that formed later on that led me to tear the ship apart an inspect each tiny detail. It was shocking how small the issue was. I've come to realize that is pinball. It's usually something very small causing a big problem. Schwaggs was very helpful for me. See the thread I posted below, and definitely take his advice on isolating the problem to whether it is at the board or not. Also, I bought a "Lil Popper" fuse tester in 5 amp so that I wouldn't keep blowing 5 amp fuses during testing. Hope the link below helps!

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/potc-raise-sails-solenoid-locked-on

#27 2 years ago

Thanks, i'll dig out that.

So first step is to remove connectors.
F10 fuse blows on turning on, i'll have to check if it's a transistor issue or playfield.

Hope to sort it out after xmas break.

1 week later
#28 2 years ago

Hello,

so i had a bit of time today.

F10 fuse blows when J6 is connected. All other connectors are working well, all voltages LED are green and all fuses are working.
Flipper coils, ship, chest and spinner are working well.

Any obvious reason on J6 that would cause J6 connector to burn my F10 fuse ?

I'll connect each wire to determine which pin is creating the issue, but any known reason would be helpful in debugging

and by the way, happy christmas holiday and happy new year

#29 2 years ago
Quoted from BENETNATH:

Any obvious reason on J6 that would cause J6 connector to burn my F10 fuse ?

You have a short somewhere down-stream from J6. Check everything that's connected to it:

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One way to find out is to disconnect all of these and then reconnect them one by one, to see which one causes the fault to reappear.

#30 2 years ago

Yep, exactly my plan.
I was just wondering if there is a known weakness on this part of the potc.
I'll keep update

#31 2 years ago

Start by cheking the conector itself,

#32 2 years ago

Hello,
Debugging time this morning was productive.
I've found the bad boy, namely pin 6 on j6, "flash back right".
I did not found a map of all flashers to determine their physical location, i've found one at the back right top part of the playfield.
The continuity test gave me a beep with or without bulb, so there is a shortcut somewhere..

To confirm my thinking, i ended by cutting the blk/blu wire at the ribbon level, booting the flipper and fuse is ok.
Game is fully working with the exception of these flashers.
I'm quite happy as ship is working well, and some of the pins on j6 where related to this toy..

I'll continue my investigation, but all clues related to flashers issue are welcome

#33 2 years ago

Test the bulb socket out of circuit, and test the wiring that goes from the bulb socket to the board. That will tell you if the socket is causing a short or if the short is in the wiring.

3 weeks later
#34 2 years ago

POTC gone, did not like the gameplay, a LOTR has replaced it, fully working

Thanks for the help provided

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