Due to all the other MMr threads getting filled up with insert and other questions. (Guilty myseft too) I wanted a thread dedicated to just the Inserts. And to show what the actual differences are, if any.

Pics of the king of pain insert on my machine diffuser installed. If anyone else wants to post pics please do.

Build date on my machines cab Feb 2016. But the CPU build date says Jan.

Lights in the room on.IMG_20160503_222350_(resized).jpg

Lights in room offIMG_20160503_223110_(resized).jpg

And through a B+W filter to just show the light variation.IMG_20160503_224155_(resized).jpg

Insert lights offIMG_20160503_230318_(resized).jpg

The whole lower area, lights are n room on.IMG_20160429_155648333_(resized).jpg

I'm not complaining or bitching about my Inserts. Like I said, if you read my initial post...I want to see actual pics to see if there is actually a difference.

Because I don't think mine have an issue but if someone can show me what all the "bitching" is about. I want to see this poor Insert print.

Or at least have a comparison.

What else are we going to talk about for MMr?
Besides some small issues that don't affect gameplay and a long wait for color. The game is perfect, and better than the original. And 19 years younger.

Answer ...after tax 80

Here are pics of an original MM with leds behind the inserts, on and off. Pics from pinside MM page.
If you go to the MM page and look I can't see a difference. With leds it looks the same as some of my pics of MMr and some in other threads.

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Original MM with leds from pinside machine splash page.

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Correct. But with them.(as seen in this pic from the Medieval madness splash page) They look the same as MMr inserts.

If I've noticed anything is the print on my shoot again insert looks better than the original. And the insert plastic itself on MMr is clearer, and the jewel pattern is nicer on MMr.

Since you are an expert on this subject.
Pics with the Leds or it didn't happen.
This post is for pictures, showing proof.

So far nothing definitive. Diffuser or not. MM or MMr.

Otherwise MMr is Better. Because it's the same but clearer inserts, better jeweling on the inserts and NEW, and will eventually have nicer dots that you will NEVER get on MM.

And out of all the other threads, and pictures no real discernable differences can be seen
As even the originals had variants in text darkness in pics, so......

DELIVERED

Well your "RESTORED" games inserts vs my "NEW" inserts I could go on and on but the ink varies on MM as much as MMR. But the inserts are clearer, have better jewling and look new because they are, on MMr

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This is a shoot again insert off an original machine looks worse than my MMr IMG_20160505_233411_(resized).jpg

This just proves my point. Who gives a fuc$.
I could search the internet and find some MM and MMr differences in every machine. By the day they were built what worker built them.
What machine did what.

The point is its the same Fuc%ing game, only new.

And here is my MMr. Looks pretty much the same as yours to me.
Other than my shooter lane isn't filled with wood filler.

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With Leds it's the same $%&+. Put a white led instead of red behind this and Poof! It's the same only MMr has a clearer insert.
MM

MMr

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Not upset.
Just surprised how many times a MMr thread gets posts about which is better. They are the SAME, only one has new tech. And new stuff.

If you like the original that's great. If you like the remake that's great. Who gives a F$%& you have a MM to play.

But why try to prove which one is better?
There are tiny differences in every machine built.

The biggest difference in MM vs MMr is insert plastic jeweling clarity ( not ink) PCBs, and the display.

I started this post to see if someone would post an actual MMr pic that shows these so-called terrible inserts.

But after looking online there are variants in every MM be it MM or MMr. Insert ink included.

Well the first pic is blown up from pinsides splash so if you can get a pic of the shoot again insert with 3 white LEDs behind it. Exactly the same as MMr and compare it to my pic taken with a 24mpxl camera of the entire playfield zoomed in on the insert from my phone in the same lighting so we can compare. I would be happy to do better for you next time.

Well you see, I noticed on the satellite dish art that you have 10 dots on the right of the beam. Well I hate to break this too you but it should be equal on both sides so your whirlwind has some issues.

Other playfields have much better artwork. Are you sure it's not a reproduction playfield?

You should totally just bail on whirlwind. And look for something else.

Actually NO. I started this thread to see if anyone actually has proof that on some machines the ink is Bad. Even If my machine has it or not. I can't tell and I don't care, from what I have found looking on the internet at pick of MM I have a 2016 MMr.
With better jeweling and clearer inserts than the original.

The only people chiming in are original MM owners. Saying theirs is much better and the "weak ink, the weak ink". If it exists I want to see proof.

Because the "proof" I have seen is that original MM has variants in the ink as well.
And if the inserts were clear like MMr (which they are not)
The ink would seem to look exactly the same in the same lighting conditions.

I never said MMr was better. I said it had clearer inserts and "better" more pronounced jeweling on the inserts.
It seems people with MM have to justify how theirs is better. Because any post about MMr they have to say so. And take any comparison or criticism of MM vs MMr as a personal insult.

Show me proof that the ink on EVERY MM insert is EXACTLY the same (darkness). And that the Inserts on MM are clearer( more transparent) than MMr. And visual proof that the ink on MMr varies more than the originals do.

And you sir, will have won the internet.

So I was looking at the Medieval Madness remake at Pinfest. And it's either a standard or a prototype because it had no number. And the inserts look exactly the same as the ones on my machine.

I also looked at the repro MM playfields with the original style inserts. And looking at them with the flashlight led on my phone the ink looks the same.
The only difference is the original inserts are less transparent. Basically factory frosted rather than clear.

So if anyone has an actual pic of the bad MMr ink. Please post it.

Is that the only insert that has an issue? Because some MM seem to have variants in insert ink as well. Yes I agree the one pic you have looks semi transparent. Are there pics with the lights off? the diffuser?

Thanks for the link. I did not follow because I was not in on MMr. I sold some pins and just bought one the beginning of April from my distributor. So I had no interest in the drama after early on reading about (coin mech gate) then recenty when I started reading all the original MM owners negativity about MMr.

I semi agree. It should have cost the same as a stern pro. If a stern pro had a color led display. Williams locking service playfield mechs. Service rails A proper lockdown bar mech. Powder coated or stainless armor.
Really good clearcoat. Gold wireforms. And great molded interactive toys. Instead of flat printed plastics. And computer controlled leds and flashers in the backbox.

But then it wouldn't be the price of a pro now would it?

I think because in 1997 Pinball was in trouble. And back then you could actually get one for $2800 CDN. because they were just trying to get them out the door. And in 2015 if you wanted a used MM you would be paying $9000+ for one that needs restoration. Or $12000-15000 for a good one.
So $7995 for a brand new one that you get to take out of the box is a deal.

And a company never makes things to "break even" of course they are making a profit.
Probably about the same as they did in '97 maybe less. Remember PPS had to get CGC and, WMS and Stern involved to actually get them built. 3 companys taking a cut as well.

And in 1997 the minimum wage for workers was $5. In 2016 it's $10. So that means labour costs have doubled since 1997 as well.

And as you said they had to figure out a way to basically re-engineer the boards. And emulate the old PCBs and drivers.

Why do you think Stern raised Spike pins $500 from SAM.

And the whole coin mech thing was really just to save time so ones being built could be made to order, then shipped world wide. Rather than having to build and box them to specific countries currency.

But you don't have any interest in MMr or even have a MM listed in your collection. So why do you care about what the price is?

I didn't care. I wanted one so I bought one. And I am extremely happy with it. And hope we get more remakes. As some very collectable fun pins are priced way too high or too hard to find for sale to justify buying them used. So a new one at Stern's LE pricing is fine by me.

Also remember Stern has cut lockdown bar mech, service rails, latching playfield mechs multi clearcoat layers and other things from their pros to cut production costs.

Mmr was on clearance and I could argue about the other points as well but it wouldn't get me anywhere.

No point in trying to discuss something with someone who has it out for MMr or its owners trying to have conversations and get facts. Even though they have no interest in it other than to complain about something they have no interest in.

Going to do something I rarely do, but you should do will all MMr threads as it obviously bothers you. As you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation.

Ignored.

Not making things up. And was buying vids since 1994. I was told by Canada's largest distributor MM went on clearance because no one here wanted pinball. I was also told this by a local op I deal with who has been in business since 1978. Maybe things were different here in Canada than the U.S. but I trust what I was told by them. I also was going to purchase one in 1997 and I know I would have paid around no $2800 but my parents did not want me spend that much or bring a Pinball machine into the house as I was still living there at the time. While going to college. At that time I had Black Tiger, ghosts n goblins. And a nes demo cab that took cartridges and worked on a timer.

I do enjoy my game. It seems like Metallic is just trolling MMr treads. As nothing is really added to the conversation. Other than changing the subject to suit his agenda. This thread was supposed to be about people posting insert pics.

So far out of all the posts one actual pic of the issue can be seen. But out of all the people complaining about it in the other threads we have yet to see more pics/proof. And most don't even own one or plan to. If it is so much of a rampant issue I would expect more.

So if you have proof. Post a pic of the issue or no issue and a pic of your LE# to prove your not just a troll.

But it's kind of too late. Because of stupid troll posts. Instead of keeping it civil and factual Most people will stay away now.

I don't blame them!

Proof?

Not trying to raise doubt. My agenda is to find out how wide spread it really is.

If it as wide spread as people claim pics, more pics would be great to prove to PPS, CGC that something more than a diffuser is necessary.
Which they deemed unnecessary now. And also are now charging for.

And we already know false claims were made to PPS, CGC. Which is sad. I thought better of Pinball collectors.

So far The only real proof other than claims is the pics from your machine showing the insert issue. Not sure if more Inserts are like that on yours. But even if it is just that 1 insert on your machine because I haven't seen more. I hope CGC comes to their sences and send a replacement PF to your distributor for you.

Like I said pics of PF and LE # to remove the trolls. And any false claims, thats my agenda.

If I could lock a thread so only pics could be shown I would. Because allowing discussion on the matter only brings out trolls.

87 posts 1 pic of proof. Lots of trolling.

Damn Autocorrect picking stuff for you!
Nice find. I won't edit it because you are probably right.

It was trying to serve a purpose. By getting to the bottom of the insert issue and how widespread it was. But pinside trolls put a stop to that. I should have known better.

Ok. My point is....

If you go to the PPS forum there are only 5 different people that posted there saying they have the bad ink. 1 person that actually posted a pic. The other 4 posters either did not post pics or removed pics or links to pics.

Now people are saying they are getting the bad ink again.

Post proof.

I agree, if it only is a handful on machines are affected like PPS states on their forum. What aren't we seeing populated playfields shipped out to distributors? According to statements on the forum 20 or so. Before it was caught.
I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt.

But it's hard to when so many people are saying they have the issue. But not much proof is out there to back it up, other than just people saying it's there. That's what this post was all about.

It's not like it's hard to remove the playfield on MMr it's only 1 ground and a couple of plugs.

I hope this is what eventually happens. But I won't hold my breath.

I am happily playing my MMr. That looks fine to me. But to anyone that has the ink problem I hope you get what you paid for eventually.

And hope that CGC and PPS have pride in their product and support it, and their customers properly.

Yeah I think the main issue with the castle inserts is actually the very clear speckled jeweled inserts they used compared to the original MM. It makes the light bounce all wierd.

I have been looking at tons of pics of MM playfields and comparing them to MMr and that is the biggest difference. And I was even looking at the repro ones at Pinfest to compare. However I have seen ink on MM that still lets a bit of light shine through when using LEDS. But it is mainly only noticeable on the round inserts on MM.

My MMr seemed to look close to yours. Maybe a bit darker, but I know pics are hard to judge and Leds photograph bad. I put the diffuser in mine and it made them darker.

On mine (at least) it made them look comparable to any original MM.

Either on mine they weren't bad and I just think they look better. Or they were and the diffuser fixed it.

Either way I'm happy with mine. But if a CGC ticket says you have the issue. I hope they start sending out populated playfields.

Which one is original?

And which one is MMr?

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It's more yellow on the one insert because the wrong leds were installed on the circuit board.
Warm white instead of cool white like the rest of the castle inserts.