(Topic ID: 159002)

Post your MMr insert pics here.


By erak

3 years ago



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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by erak
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There are 166 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 4.
#1 3 years ago

Due to all the other MMr threads getting filled up with insert and other questions. (Guilty myseft too) I wanted a thread dedicated to just the Inserts. And to show what the actual differences are, if any.

Pics of the king of pain insert on my machine diffuser installed. If anyone else wants to post pics please do.

Build date on my machines cab Feb 2016. But the CPU build date says Jan.

Lights in the room on.IMG_20160503_222350_(resized).jpg

Lights in room offIMG_20160503_223110_(resized).jpg

And through a B+W filter to just show the light variation.IMG_20160503_224155_(resized).jpg

Insert lights offIMG_20160503_230318_(resized).jpg

The whole lower area, lights are n room on.IMG_20160429_155648333_(resized).jpg

#2 3 years ago

Before diffuser

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#3 3 years ago

After diffuser

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#4 3 years ago

How do we get the diffuser kit?

#5 3 years ago

Call your distributor.

-4
#6 3 years ago

Mine are perfect

image_(resized).jpg

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#7 3 years ago

It's amazing any of you guys actually play any pinball. Seems like all I see is guys bitching about inserts. You've complained about inserts going on 18 months, the average male lives to be 78 years, so you just wasted 2% of your life. Good luck with that.

#8 3 years ago

I don't know whether mine is just not as bad but I find that the reason they seem hard to read is not because of the ink but the pattern in the plastic. Depending on the angle I look at them they are fine. When I look at them from an angle say down by the lockdown bar they are perfectly clear and easy to read. I think the way the plastic defuses the light when you look directly down at them makes them hard to read.

I blame the plastic not the ink or the brightness of the LED.

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

It's amazing any of you guys actually play any pinball. Seems like all I see is guys bitching about inserts. You've complained about inserts going on 18 months, the average male lives to be 78 years, so you just wasted 2% of your life. Good luck with that.

I'm not complaining or bitching about my Inserts. Like I said, if you read my initial post...I want to see actual pics to see if there is actually a difference.

Because I don't think mine have an issue but if someone can show me what all the "bitching" is about. I want to see this poor Insert print.

Or at least have a comparison.

What else are we going to talk about for MMr?
Besides some small issues that don't affect gameplay and a long wait for color. The game is perfect, and better than the original. And 19 years younger.

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

the average male lives to be 78 years, so you just wasted 2% of your life. Good luck with that.

How many hours does it take you to earn $8000? I know I shouldn't be here but trolls are about!

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

How many hours does it take you to earn $8000? I know I shouldn't be here but trolls are about!

Answer ...after tax 80

Here are pics of an original MM with leds behind the inserts, on and off. Pics from pinside MM page.
If you go to the MM page and look I can't see a difference. With leds it looks the same as some of my pics of MMr and some in other threads.

6de7ea8fdeef340a9c63ef52b0895dee1b4cc942_(resized).jpg
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#12 3 years ago
Quoted from Topdog:

Mine are perfect

I wouldn't say perfect

image_(resized).png

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

I wouldn't say perfect

I would and did!!

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

I wouldn't say perfect

Original MM with leds from pinside machine splash page.

IMG_20160505_221517_(resized).jpg

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from erak:

Original MM with leds

Original MM did not come with LEDs.

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Original MM did not come with LEDs.

Correct. But with them.(as seen in this pic from the Medieval madness splash page) They look the same as MMr inserts.

If I've noticed anything is the print on my shoot again insert looks better than the original. And the insert plastic itself on MMr is clearer, and the jewel pattern is nicer on MMr.

#17 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Original MM did not come with LEDs.

That's his point. They ALL had issues. It's just that in 1997 they ALL did not come with LED bulbs. That's why I said this issue is total bullshit to begin with.

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from erak:

Correct. But with them.(as seen in this pic from the Medieval madness splash page) They look the same as MMr inserts.

I had cointaker super brites in mine, and the lettering was as dark as night. And that's all I have left to say on the subject.

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I had cointaker super brites in mine, and the lettering was as dark as night. And that's all I have left to say on the subject.

Duly noted Kaneda

#20 3 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

Duly noted Kaneda

We need him back! Ever since he left, now I'm the bad guy.

#21 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

We need him back! Ever since he left, now I'm the bad guy.

Nah man, you've always been loved around here. Your comments are fun banter. Stay around this time.

#22 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I had cointaker super brites in mine, and the lettering was as dark as night. And that's all I have left to say on the subject.

Since you are an expert on this subject.
Pics with the Leds or it didn't happen.
This post is for pictures, showing proof.

So far nothing definitive. Diffuser or not. MM or MMr.

Otherwise MMr is Better. Because it's the same but clearer inserts, better jeweling on the inserts and NEW, and will eventually have nicer dots that you will NEVER get on MM.

#23 3 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

Nah man, you've always been loved around here. Your comments are fun banter. Stay around this time.

Thanks man. I'm not trying to piss people off.

Quoted from erak:

Since you are an expert on this subject.
Pics with the Leds or it didn't happen.
This post is for pictures, showing proof.

A friend owns this game now, so if I can get over there, will do. You know as well as I do that pictures can lie. It's only what's in front of you that matters. Don't know why I got so involved. Just that so much was promised, and a handful seem to have gotten shorted. That's all.

#24 3 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

That's his point. They ALL had issues. It's just that in 1997 they ALL did not come with LED bulbs. That's why I said this issue is total bullshit to begin with.

I put superbright LEDs behind my original inserts and the black was still perfectly opaque. Issue with MMRs is definitely not bullshit.

Most of the pictures above suffer light bloom - the camera is overwhelmed by the LED and cannot render the text properly even if the insert was opaque.

#25 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I had cointaker super brites in mine, and the lettering was as dark as night. And that's all I have left to say on the subject.

Quoted from erak:

Since you are an expert on this subject.
Pics with the Leds or it didn't happen.
This post is for pictures, showing proof.

I posted pics of mine already in one of the other threads. As opaque as you could ever want, even with PBL's super f*cking bright LEDs.

mm3_(resized).jpg

#26 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Just so much was promised,

And out of all the other threads, and pictures no real discernable differences can be seen
As even the originals had variants in text darkness in pics, so......

DELIVERED

#27 3 years ago
Quoted from erak:Since you are an expert on this subject.
Pics with the Leds or it didn't happen.
This post is for pictures, showing proof.
So far nothing definitive. Diffuser or not. MM or MMr.
Otherwise MMr is Better. Because it's the same but clearer inserts, better jeweling on the inserts and NEW, and will eventually have nicer dots that you will NEVER get on MM.

Here is my original MM (Keller restored).... WITH LED's

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-1
#28 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Here is my original MM (Keller restored).... WITH LED's

Well your "RESTORED" games inserts vs my "NEW" inserts I could go on and on but the ink varies on MM as much as MMR. But the inserts are clearer, have better jewling and look new because they are, on MMr

IMG_20160505_234210_(resized).jpg
IMG_20160505_233309_(resized).jpg

This is a shoot again insert off an original machine looks worse than my MMr IMG_20160505_233411_(resized).jpg

#29 3 years ago
Quoted from erak:

Well your restored games inserts vs my NEW inserts

I like the originals better! By the way did they get the playfield registry centered up on your superior MMr?
The ones I have seen look like the bottom photo below (the top photo is my "inferior" original)

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#30 3 years ago

This just proves my point. Who gives a fuc$.
I could search the internet and find some MM and MMr differences in every machine. By the day they were built what worker built them.
What machine did what.

The point is its the same Fuc%ing game, only new.

And here is my MMr. Looks pretty much the same as yours to me.
Other than my shooter lane isn't filled with wood filler.

IMG_20160506_241055708_(resized).jpg

IMG_20160505_230911_(resized).jpg

#31 3 years ago
Quoted from erak:This just proves my point. Who gives a fuc$.
I could search the internet and find some MM and MMr differences in every machine. By the day they were built what worker built them.
What machine did what.
The point is its the same Fuc%ing game

Yikes it appears I struck a nerve! I didn't mean to upset you.

#32 3 years ago
Quoted from erak:

Well your "RESTORED" games inserts vs my "NEW" inserts I could go on and on but the ink varies on MM as much as MMR.

No, it does not. Not even close. There has never been a regular MM that looked even close to MMR in terms of ink transparency. I don't even know why you'd try to make something up like that... when has anyone ever complained of insert ink transparency on ANY original WMS game?

#33 3 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

when has anyone ever complained of insert ink transparency on ANY original WMS game?

I got my Whirlwind right here.

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#34 3 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

No, it does not. Not even close. There has never been a regular MM that looked even close to MMR in terms of ink transparency. I don't even know why you'd try to make something up like that... when has anyone ever complained of insert ink transparency on ANY original WMS game?

With Leds it's the same $%&+. Put a white led instead of red behind this and Poof! It's the same only MMr has a clearer insert.
MM

MMr

IMG_20160505_233411_(resized).jpg

IMG_20160505_235742_(resized).jpg

#35 3 years ago
Quoted from erak:

With Leds it's the same $%&+. Put a white led instead of red behind this and Poof! It's the same only MMr has a clearer insert.
MM
MMr

Both of those photos are awful, especially the top one. It's horribly out of focus, has light bloom and the contrast is wrong. Hell, the black on the playfield in the lower left is the same shade as the black on the insert. Is that the best you can come up with??

-1
#36 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Yikes it appears I struck a nerve! I didn't mean to upset you.

Not upset.
Just surprised how many times a MMr thread gets posts about which is better. They are the SAME, only one has new tech. And new stuff.

If you like the original that's great. If you like the remake that's great. Who gives a F$%& you have a MM to play.

But why try to prove which one is better?
There are tiny differences in every machine built.

The biggest difference in MM vs MMr is insert plastic jeweling clarity ( not ink) PCBs, and the display.

I started this post to see if someone would post an actual MMr pic that shows these so-called terrible inserts.

But after looking online there are variants in every MM be it MM or MMr. Insert ink included.

#37 3 years ago
Quoted from erak:

I started this post to see if someone would post an actual MMr pic that shows these so-called terrible inserts.

They already did months ago and are probably already tired of fighting a battle they can't hope to win. But I ask you, who's got the nicer Whirlwind?

#38 3 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Both of those photos are awful, especially the top one. It's horribly out of focus, has light bloom and the contrast is wrong. Hell, the black on the playfield in the lower left is the same shade as the black on the insert. Is that the best you can come up with??

Well the first pic is blown up from pinsides splash so if you can get a pic of the shoot again insert with 3 white LEDs behind it. Exactly the same as MMr and compare it to my pic taken with a 24mpxl camera of the entire playfield zoomed in on the insert from my phone in the same lighting so we can compare. I would be happy to do better for you next time.

#39 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

They already did months ago and are probably already tired of fighting a battle they can't hope to win. But I ask you, who's got the nicer Whirlwind?

Well you see, I noticed on the satellite dish art that you have 10 dots on the right of the beam. Well I hate to break this too you but it should be equal on both sides so your whirlwind has some issues.

Other playfields have much better artwork. Are you sure it's not a reproduction playfield?

You should totally just bail on whirlwind. And look for something else.

#40 3 years ago
Quoted from erak:

Well the first pic is blown up from pinsides splash so if you can get a pic of the shoot again insert with 3 white LEDs behind it.

I already posted a pic of Howard Hurtz with FOUR white LEDs behind it. Same ink coverage as the shoot again insert four inches away, but I'll snap a pic of that one tomorrow just for you

#41 3 years ago
Quoted from erak:

Are you sure it's not a reproduction playfield?

It says Diamond Plate on it.

15
#42 3 years ago
Quoted from erak:

Well you see, I noticed on the satellite dish art that you have 10 dots on the right of the beam. Well I hate to break this too you but it should be equal on both sides so your whirlwind has some issues.
Other playfields have much better artwork. Are you sure it's not a reproduction playfield?
You should totally just bail on whirlwind. And look for something else.

Look we get it. You started this thread to convince yourself there is no issue affecting your 8k purchase. I understand the motivation.
This is easier than going after the company or simply having to live with it.

Problem is the company THEMSELVES acknowledged the issue and promised a solution. After a month or so the "solution" was to dim the LED's with a sheet of plastic to minimize the poor printing on the inserts. The people stuck with the "lighter printed" inserts let out a collective groan at this half-assed solution but had to live with it. Most didn't want to threaten a lawsuit, test their CC return policy (as it took years to get the thing,etc)... they just wanted to get the SAME quality the earlier buyers got (what a concept).

You can't change the history. And simply proving that cameras don't photograph LED's well at all doesn't re-write history either.

It's not the end of the world. The effect can be minimized. I'd simply let it go at this point and we all learned a lot about the companies involved and their willingness to ship a PF that does not match their earlier production but "falls in the range of acceptance". Corporate weasel-speak to save themselves $$ from re-printing a batch of playfields.

The fact that they took all this bad press, came up with a somewhat ridiculous "solution" to save a buck, and now finally are STILL
shipping the same "bad" batch of PF's speaks volumes. It makes you wonder what they could rationalize in their next re-make. Remember that before MMr... we never even had the term "faded insert". I don't think this term was even in the pinball lexicon. Who could have predicted it? The earlier ones were done as well as the originals. Topdog will tell you that repeatedly

So I'd let it go... I wasn't going to say any more as my attempts to get people to demand the same product others got was just causing bad feelings. People can decide for themselves how pronounced the issue is and if it even bothers them.

#43 3 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

No, it does not. Not even close. There has never been a regular MM that looked even close to MMR in terms of ink transparency. I don't even know why you'd try to make something up like that... when has anyone ever complained of insert ink transparency on ANY original WMS game?

Or even any Stern game? Heck in 28 years of pin playing, collecting and tinkering I'd never even heard of the the term "faded insert". Had anybody? All kinds of other issues but never this.

#44 3 years ago
Quoted from Manic:

Look we get it. You started this thread to convince yourself there is no issue affecting your 8k purchase. I understand the motivation.
This is easier than going after the company or simply having to live with it.
Problem is the company THEMSELVES acknowledged the issue and promised a solution. After a month or so the "solution" was to dim the LED's with a sheet of plastic to minimize the poor printing on the inserts. The people stuck with the "lighter printed" inserts let out a collective groan at this half-assed solution but had to live with it. Most didn't want to threaten a lawsuit, test their CC return policy (as it took years to get the thing,etc)... they just wanted to get the SAME quality the earlier buyers got (what a concept).
You can't change the history. And simply proving that cameras don't photograph LED's well at all doesn't re-write history either.
It's not the end of the world. The effect can be minimized. I'd simply let it go at this point and we all learned a lot about the companies involved and their willingness to ship a PF that does not match their earlier production but "falls in the range of acceptance". Corporate weasel-speak to save themselves $$ from re-printing a batch of playfields.
The fact that they took all this bad press, came up with a somewhat ridiculous "solution" to save a buck, and now finally are STILL
shipping the same "bad" batch of PF's speaks volumes. It makes you wonder what they could rationalize in their next re-make. Remember that before MMr... we never even had the term "faded insert". I don't think this term was even in the pinball lexicon. Who could have predicted it? The earlier ones were done as well as the originals. Topdog will tell you that repeatedly
So I'd let it go... I wasn't going to say any more as my attempts to get people to demand the same product others got was just causing bad feelings. People can decide for themselves how pronounced the issue is and if it even bothers them.

Actually NO. I started this thread to see if anyone actually has proof that on some machines the ink is Bad. Even If my machine has it or not. I can't tell and I don't care, from what I have found looking on the internet at pick of MM I have a 2016 MMr.
With better jeweling and clearer inserts than the original.

The only people chiming in are original MM owners. Saying theirs is much better and the "weak ink, the weak ink". If it exists I want to see proof.

Because the "proof" I have seen is that original MM has variants in the ink as well.
And if the inserts were clear like MMr (which they are not)
The ink would seem to look exactly the same in the same lighting conditions.

#45 3 years ago
Quoted from erak:

I have a 2016 MMr
With better jeweling and clearer inserts than the original.
The only people chiming in are original MM owners. Saying theirs is much better and the "weak ink, the weak ink". If it exists I want to see proof.

You crack me up!
1. You are accusing MM owners of exactly what you are guilty of (saying MMr is "better" than MM).

2. The clear inserts you are boasting about on your MMR make the translucent ink issue worse.

3. The fact that PPS has created the "diffuser" fix and is giving it out for free to owners is proof that they are admitting a problem exists.

4. None of this matters! Just enjoy your game, it is what it is.

#46 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

You crack me up!
1. You are accusing MM owners of exactly what you are guilty of (saying MMr is "better" than MM).
2. The clear inserts you are boasting about on your MMR make the translucent ink issue worse.
3. The fact that PPS has created the "diffuser" fix and is giving it out for free to owners is proof that they are admitting a problem exists.
4. None of this matters! Just enjoy your game, it is what it is.

I never said MMr was better. I said it had clearer inserts and "better" more pronounced jeweling on the inserts.
It seems people with MM have to justify how theirs is better. Because any post about MMr they have to say so. And take any comparison or criticism of MM vs MMr as a personal insult.

Show me proof that the ink on EVERY MM insert is EXACTLY the same (darkness). And that the Inserts on MM are clearer( more transparent) than MMr. And visual proof that the ink on MMr varies more than the originals do.

And you sir, will have won the internet.

#47 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Here is my original MM (Keller restored).... WITH LED's

King of Payne insert looks yellow and dirty,
Duke of bourbon is very blurry and almost unreadable??

-1
#48 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

You crack me up!
1. You are accusing MM owners of exactly what you are guilty of (saying MMr is "better" than MM).
2. The clear inserts you are boasting about on your MMR make the translucent ink issue worse.
3. The fact that PPS has created the "diffuser" fix and is giving it out for free to owners is proof that they are admitting a problem exists.
4. None of this matters! Just enjoy your game, it is what it is.

I actually can say that My MMR LE is better than the original because I have both!!
Thank You!

#49 3 years ago
Quoted from erak:

Show me proof that the ink on EVERY MM insert is EXACTLY the same (darkness). And visual proof that the ink on MMr varies more than all originals do.
And you will have won the internet.

I don't want to win the internet, but someday I hope to rule the kingdom. Enjoy your game, MM is my all time fave!

Happy flipping

#50 3 years ago
Quoted from Topdog:

I actually can say that My MMR LE is better than the original because I have both!!
Thank You!

Hi Hondanut

Mods can we get an IP check

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