True, true. I know my kids love it when the ball goes nuts in the pop triangle...maybe designers are thinking if they take it out, being its such a pinball staple, people might not approve. As far as location and usage, it seemed to be well thought out in older EMs as not much else, other than slings and flippers, to "keep the action" moving. To each his own i guess.

I love the location of the TZ pops. Definitely keeps you on your toes and makes you be ready to nudge if it heads towards the left outlane.

I wouldn't mind someone incorporating something like that into a new game. In fact I think there is a pop in the left outlane area of WOZ which tests your nudging skills to make the "there's no place like home" targets.

Another dangerous tilt zone. I found myself shaking the shit out of woz when I had it to make this, but in the end, I ended up just letting it drain because completing that mini game was a PITA.

I agree.

Quite honestly, If the game is properly designed, I don't even notice that they are missing. I could play JunkYard, The Shadow, and Solar Fire all day and not miss the pops, heck, even Whitewater has them integrated in such a way that they are designed to only really slow the ball down. The ring placement ensures that the ball only can enter or leave in a single direction.

Pops are awsome when interpreted in game play , like a certain amount of pop hits you collect Boomir in lord of the rings which u need to start fellow ship of the ring multi ball, a certain amount of pop hits lets u open up budda Bing multiball on sopranos, collecting seeds on Avatar, works well in the Simpsons pinball party for nuclear disaster when in a tree house mode to name a few, also love the shoot through the pop shot which are on most Pat Lawlor games, Adams family an Bride out right ramp on Road Show, my 2 favourites are when trying to collect the Gambit hurry up on xmen where first of all you need a certain amount of pop hits to start it , then must shoot the left loop through the pops an with the upper right flipper hit the right closest right flipper to collect, an the countdown is extremely fast, but a great pay out when done.. The other is trying to collect Cletus kids on TSPP for pretzel multiball which I've never been able to do, but always try.. So yeah I think pops are important an add to gameplay when used in the modern rule sheets ...

Pops are awesome!

360 degree targets how they are incorporated and placed is very important.

Can be used for randomnesses, moving ball up the playfield or sending it quickly towards a drain.

I often wondered why the diameter of all of the companies was so standard. I think on newer games that have so many other things on pf and the fact that they take up a good bit of real estate on pf. That it might be time for a smaller ring size. Or a board that varied the pop power after each hit.

Anyone read this and in contact with Steve or one of the other designers?? Ask em to post there thoughts here!

All I know is my Pop is the best !! His diodes are starting to go but he is almost 88!

No pops on No Fear which is fast and fun with tons of ramps. Also I like Junkyard which not many like also has no pops but a jalopy is the best.

I love EMs, and therefore I love the pop bumper, but pop bumper nests in newer games are kind of pointless. I agree that the pop bumper should stay, but it needs to be used more inventively. I like it when a pop bumper is under a lane or near drop targets, and skillful nudging combined with the bumper will keep the ball going into those targets and up those lanes. Pop bumper placement should be strategic, with risk/reward factors.

A whole bunch of solenoid fart dust under the PF

This! I love it when I can nudge and "steer" the rebound off the pop into a lane or a target.
Also the element of randomness pops provide is essential to pinball in my opinion.
I also like when they are used creatively...I used to have a Fan-Tas-Tic with the "death save" pop bumper at the bottom. All KINDS of action down there. Or my Old Chicago with the notorious bottom pops. A good nudge when the ball hits the top of the right one can get you one or more drop targets.

I hate games where the ball can get hung in the pops and you have to wait for the game to finish playing with itself.

Always bothered me on Addams Family!

I think modern designers tend to not use pops in creative ways... not sure why.

Black Hole has some really cool pop bumper action. Love my Future Spa pops too.

I actually like the slot pops, it's a neat idea, but it never feels very well-integrated. It just kinda happens, which makes it feel a little rote, especially with Stern's weird tiny bumpers. The pops you have to shoot through are always fun, though, that thread-the-needle feeling is super duper satisfying. I also love getting the ball going in there on a super pop mode, like TAF's Mamushka. The "caged" pops in Stern games aren't particularly great, especially in GB where the left exit dribbles the ball pathetically straight down the middle.

Wizard of Oz had the state fair balloon pop bumper in the outlane. That was a nice use of a pop in a modern game. An interactive ball saver, if you're very good.

Read.

Electricity spearheaded additional innovations on pinball machines, with the most important coming from a small Utica, New York, manufacturer called the Pacent Novelty Manufacturing Company. In 1936, an inventor named W. Van Stoeser created a completely new scoring device called the bumper, which Pacent incorporated into a bowling-themed game called Bolo. The game simulated knocking down ten pins represented by the bumpers, ten long, thin rods attached to coil springs. The goal was to make contact with every bumper, and each time the ball hit one, a corresponding pin on the backglass of the cabinet would light up to indicate that the pin had been knocked down. The new bumper concept proved immediately popular, but Pacent did not have centralized manufacturing capability and had to farm out the building of the game to several local companies, leaving an opening for others to fill the void. As a result, when Bally’s Ray Moloney saw the game in operation, he charged a man named Donald Hooker to develop an improved bumper for Bally, which was incorporated into a 1936 table called, appropriately enough, Bumper.

Unlike Bolo, Bumper used traditional pinball scoring with bumpers replacing pins and holes and popularized the totalizer method of keeping score, in which a score reel on the backglass updated each time the ball made contact with a bumper. Bally’s Bumper game helped move pinball forward in exciting new directions, but another innovation by the company proved to be a giant step backwards.

Knowledge is power.

Modern day converted relevance?
http://pavlovpinball.com/whats-the-point-of-pop-bumbers/

You pray one ball goes into the pop bumpers and stays there a while anytime you hit multi ball on CFTBL. If you are lucky enough to "find the girl", you hope another ball (or two) stays in the pops until you hit the jackpot. Same for building up to the super jackpot via pop hits. On the other hand, the ball can't get free from the pop bumpers fast enough anytime you are in the "move your car" mode. Brilliant use of pops by Trudeau.

I don't necessarily miss them on games like No fear etc, but if they went away completely or even mostly, i would miss them. I also wish that they would be used better and not just thought of as something that had to be fit in somewhere. A nice group of three, and maybe a fourth put someplace completely away from the rest, like BH.

Always wondered about binding a thin urethane washer or delrin to coil stop to eliminate the metal to metal contact.

Some of these simple designs have not changed in ages. They can't be perfect.

Pop bumpers? I dig 'em. Good action and randomness to ball movement. Keeps you on your toes. Properly adjust bumpers for best action.

Excellent read. Thanks.

In the case of Space Station I really love them. You get the USA inlanes all lit and the value of the pops goes up and a lot of times the pops will throw the ball back up there and when all 3 are lit again the value of the pops goes up again. Same with Space Shuttle.

Pinsiders have declared what to look for when designing pops:

Thank you for all your contributions. You guys nailed it. Here's the summary. Now you will have a 6-point check for the rest of your life to evaluate pops... Once you see this, you can't un-see it.

Pops "can" have great value in a game, AND they can detract from a game. Be sure and consider "at least" these 6 factors when objectively evaluating pops:

GOOD:
1. Randomize movement (where did the ball go?)
2. Drain the ball hard and fast (left, center or right)
3. Help you score (rollovers, or targets)
4. Modes (see frenzy mode in Funhouse)

BAD:
5. Add stop-n-go -- (some call this "giving you a breather", I disrespectfully decline that notion completely. I'm all about that action, boss!)
6. Single-controlled-exit (dribble the ball out of their "pen" to an orbit that may not even effectively feed the flippers?, see BK3)

thanks,
mof

PS: If you are an EM player I suppose you add "7" for "score lit pops" but in solid state/DMD/moderns, I'm not aware of a pop where I want to hit it once it lights up, and that it's ever worth the shot... I'm happy to be wrong and learn more.