Replace both trough ball transmitter board and receiver board with new ones from Great Plains Modular.
Still getting the Switch 52 Error Trough 2nd...
Any ideas?
(Topic ID: 186918)
Linked Games
Popeye Saves the Earth
Bally, 1994
Topic Gallery
Linwood, NJ
Take off the apron
Put game in Test - Switch Edge Test
Block each set of optos with your finger
Do all of the switches, including #52 register open/closed?
If no, try wiggling the connectors on the opto boards - those tiny .100 pitch IDC connectors are crap
RM
Quoted from RussMyers:Take off the apron
Put game in Test - Switch Edge Test
Block each set of optos with your finger
Do all of the switches, including #52 register open/closed?
If no, try wiggling the connectors on the opto boards - those tiny .100 pitch IDC connectors are crap
RM
Will inspect those wiring harnesses on the receiver board and transmitter board tomorrow.
When I wiggled the two wire connector tonight, the led's went off and on so I may need to closely inspect those connectors.
Thanks!
What's even stranger is while I was typing, Popeye just reset the High Scores on it's own.
Then the display showed: Test Report: all the 4 flippers EOS was stuck closed,one at a time.
Update: Replaced connector J209.
Get same error Switch 52
Inspected the connector just to the left of J209 . Has acid corrosion too.
I am out of those connectors to do more right now.
I cleaned it best I could and got rid of the Switch 52 error at power up.
But the game goes haywire after the first 20 seconds or so.
Just gonna have to wait for parts at this point.
Update: Replaced connector J207 today.
Game still comes up ok with no credit dot and plays fine for maybe 10 minutes.
All of a sudden I got an extra ball when the ball stopped in the round waterwheel.
Then it restarted. I got a multiball and while playing it, I kept getting a message the coin door was open when it was locked shut.
Message went away and finished game.
I inspected connectors J212 and J205 for acid damage.
These look ok except J212-2 looks corroded slightly.
Also J205-12 looks a little corroded.
I tried to look up J205-12 schematic in the manual but I can't find what it goes too.
Does this connector/pin have something to do with the coin door error?
Thanks anyone that can assist.
what do the header pins look like on the cpu for those connectors??? also what does the area around the cpu look like in that area???
Quoted from gameover1173:what do the header pins look like on the cpu for those connectors??? also what does the area around the cpu look like in that area???
The J205-12 header pin was a little "whiteish" so I q-Tipped it with some white vinegar, waited 5 min, wiped with water q-tip, then let air dry 10 min.
Took a before and after pic and it looks much better.
Got the game on now and will see if it goes bonkers just sitting in attract mode or not.
I hear it go dong-dong-dong-dong-dong from the kitchen but by the time I got to see, the display looked normal.
No Coin Door open message.
That's what I would have expected to see.
Letting it sit longer and will try to catch it this time.
I still am uncertain what J205-12 even goes too.
Update: Fixed...
Appears the connector on the FLIPPER BOARD in the lower cabinet was about halfway off.
No idea how it got that way or how long it's been like that but played 6 games tonight after reseating it
and no more issues.
What keyed me into finding the issue was the lower flippers started chattering and flipping by themselves
and starting getting the COIN DOOR OPEN message. So peeked inside and that vertical long connector (front) was lifted and crooked.
Update: Fixed! I figured it out when I was looking at a possible connector issue on the Fliptronics board.
A connector on the board to the right of the Fiptronics board (4 Pins) that all have connections with thru wires on the top, the top black one had come loose and was hanging on barely. Pushed it back into the IDC connector teeth, and wire tied it below like my Demoman has it done. Been fine for 8 games now.
Update: Not Fixed. The DMD displayed Coin Door Issue in middle of a game reared it's UGLY HEAD again..
But it doesn't happen very often. The TROUGH 2 error has definitely been cured.
Quoted from terryb:If you've got that much corrosion on the connectors then the board is likely also corroded. Can you provide a hi-res photo, in-focus of the cpu board (component side)?
Yes, once my phone charges back up.
It's pretty clean and the battery holder was moved off the CPU board when I got it.
J205 looks clean except pin 12 in the connector looks a little corroded but I've looked in the manual and can't find any info on what J205-12 goes too.
The Corrosion that is on those resistors can eat thru those fine traces from the LM339 chips and get under them. Did you buzz out all the traces between the resistors and the 339's. Any blackened leg on the chips and darkened traces are suspect for sure.
Quoted from Chet:The Corrosion that is on those resistors can eat thru those fine traces from the LM339 chips and get under them. Did you buzz out all the traces between the resistors and the 339's. Any blackened leg on the chips and darkened traces are suspect for sure.
No, not yet. Can I do that on the board with the connectors pulled?
U16 looks like it's the worse..in appearance anyways.
I guess I'll need to pull the CPU board anyway to give that area a distilled water/white vinegar bath and rinse too.
If it were my game, I would pull the board to get a good inspection and it is much easier to buzz all the traces between components. Since batteries and holder are removed that makes inspection easier as well I would check all the traces with meter and magnifier. All of those Lm339 chips should be checked. If in doubt i would socket and replace them. If you have corroded traces you will have to repair/ jumper those. I use a fine fiber glass pen to clean any corrosion not just vinegar. I seal the cleaned corroded board with clear or sally Hanson hard as nails enamel.
Several of the chips need to be pulled and the traces visually inspected--don't ask me why but the most damage is always under the chips. Meter is fine for finding broken traces, but a trace that is 80-90% eaten through will pass the meter test, but will not function properly when under power.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-guide-to-repairing-alkaline-battery-damage
Great guys!
Looks like I've been done this road before...
BTW, can anyone tell me why J205-12 isn't in the Popeye schematic as going anywhere yet it clearly exists on my game?
Quoted from terryb:Several of the chips need to be pulled and the traces visually inspected--don't ask me why but the most damage is always under the chips. Meter is fine for finding broken traces, but a trace that is 80-90% eaten through will pass the meter test, but will not function properly when under power.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-guide-to-repairing-alkaline-battery-damage
Very informative TerryB! Thanks for taking the time to post and educate us.
Will pull the board out soon and test the traces first.
Pulled the CPU board this AM. Here are 5 pics of affected areas, before & after cleaning.
Look like a resistor covering got eaten away some too.
I need to test all the traces next but can someone fast forward me to which IC/Pin is responsible for the COIN DOOR SWITCH?
THANKS!
CuJo
Quoted from CUJO:I need to test all the traces next but can someone fast forward me to which IC/Pin is responsible for the COIN DOOR SWITCH?
Hey zaza, don't you have some other drawings for sorting out the switch matrix traces that might help the OP? I seem to remember that from another thread but can't find it. I'd also like to add them all to my alkaline damage post.
I didn't highlight all of the damage, but just a few spots worth mentioning. In the red circles the corrosion has likely gotten under the solder mask. Clean first with some alcohol and if the area is still dark then the solder mask will have to be mechanically removed.
In the blue circle the leads and the solder joint seem to have separated (notice the circle around the lead). There are two small traces that go under U16 (you can see one at the top and one at the bottom of the chip) that are almost always blown out with that much corrosion.
I would bet at least one of the resistors in the green circle is either open or has a poor connection from the lead to the resistor body. You can pry up very lightly with a small screwdriver or a solder pick and see if the lead separates from the body.
You've got a project there. Even for those circuits that are currently working, they won't be for long.
Quoted from terryb:I didn't highlight all of the damage, but just a few spots worth mentioning. In the red circles the corrosion has likely gotten under the solder mask. Clean first with some alcohol and if the area is still dark then the solder mask will have to be mechanically removed.
In the blue circle the leads and the solder joint seem to have separated (notice the circle around the lead). There are two small traces that go under U16 (you can see one at the top and one at the bottom of the chip) that are almost always blown out with that much corrosion.
I would bet at least one of the resistors in the green circle is either open or has a poor connection from the lead to the resistor body. You can pry up very lightly with a small screwdriver or a solder pick and see if the lead separates from the body.
You've got a project there. Even for those circuits that are currently working, they won't be for long.
Thanks TerryB!
I'm going to test the resistors in the green circle now and the path of the coin door switch that ZAZA outlined.
Also will alcohol swab that red area.
Terry, do you mean a picture as above with different traces or another 'more schematic' picture ?
I'm not sure what picture you mean at this moment.
edit:
this one ?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wpc-switch-matrix-issue-tz#post-3286100
I think this is the one I was remembering.
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/images/e/e7/WPC-089MPULayout.jpg
and
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/images/0/08/ImprovedSwitchMatrixDiagram.jpg
That is the same picture as above but older.
Latest version + other CPU info can be found here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wpc-89-cpu-board-info.
With these pictures it is a piece of cake to repair the switch matrix.
Quoted from zaza:sure:
Hello zaza.
I tested the traces in your helpful diagram.
Every leg of the point to point run good except the bottom side of R53 to J208-2 & J209-2. Dead. No tone.
Pretty strange because all the components/traces in that area look to be corrosion free.
Your thoughts? and TerryB's?
Thanks.
Quoted from CUJO:bottom side of R53 to J208-2 & J209-2
Likely under the top connector.
Quoted from zaza:There is no direct connection from bottom side of R53 to J208. In between is a diode D4
Ok, rechecked the run and it does tone out from south side of diode D4 to J209-2 and J207-2.
Since the only error I get during a game is COIN DOOR OPEN, I was just curious to test that trace run first.
Looks to be ok.
I apologize ahead, I'm lost trying to find the info on here to check every trace route.
Since I had the slam tilt error and coin door error, that is part of ROW 2 switch matrix.
Is that suggesting maybe U18 needs replacing?
It appears that U16 is the worse and needs replacing anyways.
I did clean the solder mask with alcohol. It looks better but not unscathed.
It could be a failed component, a cold solder joint that works when the probe presses down on it while checking continuity or a trace that is 90% eaten through and will work in continuity test, but not under load.
I normally prefer to identify all the problems before tackling an alkaline damaged board but sometimes that's just not possible. I'm afraid you may be in that situation. You may just have to start pulling components so you can see all of the damage and go from there.
Quoted from terryb:It could be a failed component, a cold solder joint that works when the probe presses down on it while checking continuity or a trace that is 90% eaten through and will work in continuity test, but not under load.
I normally prefer to identify all the problems before tackling an alkaline damaged board but sometimes that's just not possible. I'm afraid you may be in that situation. You may just have to start pulling components so you can see all of the damage and go from there.
So if you were a betting man, what component would you clip out first to replace?
I've replaced corroded IC's with socketed one's before.
I actually have some LM339's and sockets here already.
I swapped out two on my Alien Poker before I hit the right IC that had things in a "locked on" state.
I don't have a very good desoldering tool unfortunately.
Thanks.
First you need to treat the alkaline damage (per the post I linked above).
Personally I would pull U16-U20, but I've got the right equipment and years dealing with alkaline damaged boards. They're all going to have to come out eventually to properly assess the damage to the traces.
If you want to start conservatively and kind of see how things go and what the traces look like under the chips you could do either of the following: Based on appearance only I would pull U16 and U17 (while that is not your row issue I would be amazed if those circuits are working). Not sure on U18, it doesn't completely show in the photo and I would like to see a better photo. Based on row 2 not working I would pull U18.
This would be a very good time to get the proper equipment. You can pick up a used Hakko 808 relatively cheaply. Check out the Hakko FR300 thread on Pinside and ask if anyone is upgrading and wants to sell their old one. Alkaline damaged boards are a bitch to work on without doing more damage, the right tools really make a difference.
Quoted from terryb:First you need to treat the alkaline damage (per the post I linked above).
Personally I would pull U16-U20, but I've got the right equipment and years dealing with alkaline damaged boards. They're all going to have to come out eventually to properly assess the damage to the traces.
If you want to start conservatively and kind of see how things go and what the traces look like under the chips you could do either of the following: Based on appearance only I would pull U16 and U17 (while that is not your row issue I would be amazed if those circuits are working). Not sure on U18, it doesn't completely show in the photo and I would like to see a better photo. Based on row 2 not working I would pull U18.
This would be a very good time to get the proper equipment. You can pick up a used Hakko 808 relatively cheaply. Check out the Hakko FR300 thread on Pinside and ask if anyone is upgrading and wants to sell their old one. Alkaline damaged boards are a bitch to work on without doing more damage, the right tools really make a difference.
TerryB,
I botched a U20 replacement in my "early" attempts on working on a Demoman CPU board. I used solder wick and lifted the pads on one or two spots. Fortunately I was able to get assistance from someone to help finish it who had the "right" soldering tools/experience.
Other than that bad day, I've been successful with what I have to work with. I have a good soldering station but use one of those
Radio Shacks $5.99 spring loaded, one shot, sucker tools.
I have done all the vinegar bath, water rinse & alcohol follow up on the affected areas.
I used a needle tipped hi pressure air compresser to blow all the extra water, vinergar and such while cleaning that may hang under the ic's and then sun dried the board for 30 minutes.
Here's 3 more pics. 2 of U18 and one of the backside lower.
None of it looks good, but U18 doesn't look as bad as some of the other chips. Some of the solder joints on the resistors below U18 look very rough though.
I guess I'm kind of at a loss in regards to what to suggest. If you want a long-term reliable board U16-20 need to be pulled, the board needs to be bead blasted (or some other mechanical means of cleaning), flushed again with vinegar and all of the dull solder joints need to be re-flowed.
If you just want to get the board working I would setup a bench rig with a power supply and walk through all of the matrix circuits with a logic probe.
Update:
Finally got around to replacing the other "suspect" connector J205 today.
As I mentioned earlier, J205-12 was a little corroded and all the others in that connector appeared clean.
Anyhow, put the CPU board back in sans battery and powered it up.
Of course I had to reset Date/Time and FreePlay option as the Factory Default Resets had occurred.
Played a game and now the pin has been behaving in attract mode without the' DONG DONG DONG' Coin Door Open error
I was getting.
All along I suspected J205-12 wasn't up to par and maybe that was the last thing needed for now.
All the corrosion cleaning was completed days ago.
Will give it a good workout later tonight before powering it down to see if that's the end of the troubles.
On another note, I am looking for a 2 pin power connector so I can stop soldering/desoldering the 3 Cell external battery holder
I've mounted on the left side wall of the inner cabinet.
DigiKey have a nice little doodad like that anyone can suggest?
3 weeks later
Update:
Snipped out IC's U17 & U16. Desoldered the old pins & cleanup holes. Soldered on (2) Machined Pin 14 Pin IC sockets and seated in (2) new LM339's.
Reinstalled CPU board and reconnect external battery wires. Turned on pin, set for Free Play, 8 second drain time/
So far so good. Played 4-5 games inc Multiballs which always seems to trigger the Coin Door Open message.
My Beta Tester GF was always good at getting Popeye to act up but not last night!
Time will tell.
Thanks to all who responded.
Update:
Well the issue reared it's FUGLY HEAD once again. 
It's very seldom I get any error msg to the DMD anymore but I did get the COIN DOOR OPEN during a multiball, the message went
away quickly, but then I noticed it gave me the jackpot for the Left Ramp when I didn't even make that shot.
It always seems to start with the CoinDoor Open message. Game always seems to recover itself without resetting then plays fine for the rest of the game typically.
Since U16 and U17 have been replaced, would U18 be the likely suspect IC since the coin door switch path travels thru it?
I also have 2 resistors that the acid has eaten away some of the covering. You can see that in some of my earlier posted pics.
I want to replace R47-R50 and R31-R34.. Best place to buy these? GPE or DigiKey?
2 weeks later
Update: Replaced the easier stuff today 6 resistors.
Replaced R27,R28, R31 & R32.
Also replaced R47, R48.
All these had some damage (see earlier pics).
Thought I'd try CPU board in game.
Now the menu buttons seem to have a mind of their own. Can't make the menu selections go and stay where I want. If I press a button, it'll advance two or three. It'll jump around in the menu on it's own. The ball will automatically shoot up in the shooter lane but won't launch when fire is pressed.
This is exactly how the pin acted 3 years ago when I got it home. It cleared up after buffing all the cpu board connector pins then.
2 weeks later
Update: 07/03/17 - Replaced U20, U19 & U18 today. Installed new sockets on CPU board, socketed 3 new IC's.
Now when I turn on the game, I do get the CPU board booted (middle LED flashing, bottom light on solid, top light off);
No controlled lamps are coming on because the coin door switches ,where they were jumping all around on their own before are now totally non-responsive. I do have GI on. I get the Factory Default Restored message on DMD, but can't add credits thru coin door either.
So now I have no communication with the CPU board from the coin door switches.
Bad to Worse....
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