Disagree, I love pop bumpers and the randomness they add. I wish they were more open in most modern games so they could really push the ball in several different directions. The pops on RZ add immensely to the play and don't just rattle around and then come out a single exit.

Pinball does have skill, but the randomness is what makes it more enjoyable for different skill levels to play against each other. You never know exactly what is going to happen.

I like pops as a place to deposit balls during multi ball

I say yes to pops, but don't add them on to games where it doesn't make sense. I also love games with shots through the pop bumpers.

And yes it's a strategy during multiball. I love when you get a minute to breath and shoot for a jackpot or something

I think pops are one of those elements of pinball where if you got rid of them, you'd feel like you lost an important part of pinball. Plus I like the way some newer games have taken advantage of pop bumpers (like matching pop bumper awards on GOT)

Might as well get rid of flippers and slingshots too and go back to the days when the almighty plunge actually mattered.

Take the glass off too, that thing always gets in my way

The problem is, no modern games are using them creatively (that I'm aware of). Just tuck them in the back corner for posterity. I love games with interesting pops. Fighting to save my ball from the Beast's Lair on Paragon. That Jupiter Crush custom pin that has a negative points pop right in the middle of the playfield. Those are some cool pops!

Here's one where a pop is in place of a sling. Talk about slam between the flippers or the left outlane. I'm sure there are others (Spanish Eyes) where one is between the flippers.

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Judge Dredd, Swords of Fury, and Grand Lizard all come to mind...

Blasphemy!

Ya and the new SW could use some more space lol. Maybe take them out in that game and add another shot or gimmick

Put them back in a prominent place in the playfield. I agree that on modern games they're just kind of hidden. People who don't play the old games don't know the thrill of having one in the middle of the playfield send the ball screaming SDTM.

Junk Yard, Swords of Fury, Judge Dredd, Fire!, Blackwater 100, and Pharoah, Solar Fire, and Champion Pub as well.

Not all games need pops, but when they're integrated well, I think they're still fun to have incorporated.

Williams FIRE, (or better known as Williams Firewood")has no pops. Enough said... keep the pops.

Total Nuclear Annihilation

Beautiful in every way.

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White Water integrates the pops as "boulders." Really fun to hit a smooth sweeping shot, only to have the ball slam into bumpers like a raft hitting rapids. Each loop increases the value of the pops, and the "boulder bash" mode encourages nudging to keep the ball alive. Also, the pops act as a barrier for the "boomerang bend" shot. You need to have a perfect aim, otherwise the ball hits a bumper and dribbles out.

Of course, I'm biased because I own the game, however, objectively speaking, it's among the few games I can recall that incorporate pops both thematically, and from a gameplay standpoint.

F14 Tomcat only has one pop but it plays a huge roll in game play.

I agree. I look at AFM, and the pops really don't do much aside from awarding "super jets" and keeping the ball busy during multiball. Otherwise, there's really only one place for the ball to exit--to the kickout. They seem more like a "dead space filler" on the game.

However, on Scared Stiff, I think the pops are integrated well as "the monsters lab." It's not often the ball enters the area, and they do a good job at theming the area as big Tesla coils like you'd see in Frankenstein.

So for me, it depends on the game. I have to say though, I don't think I've ever really looked at a game and thought they should've had something other than pop bumpers in their place.

If you don't like the pop bumpers, just lift the playfield, unbolt/unscrew them and leave that area of the playfield blank. Or add a toy or something if you want.

A few games have as many as 5 or 6 pop bumpers.

I love pop bumpers. Until I melt the end of the skirt/spoon area with the soldering iron. Doh.

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I haven't played it yet, but watching the videos I think the new Aerosmith pinball makes good use of the pop bumpers - the ball is either in the pop triangle from the loop or it comes from the right and hits the pop bumpers on the other side - this together with the magnet makes for some interesting ball movement.

Pop bumpers are probably my least favorite assembly to service. I wish there was any easy way to replace the skirt. On some games, you have to take off a lot of parts just to get at the pop bumpers.

My favorite game for use of the bumpers is Ghostbusters. When the ball is up there, you'll definitely be looking at the screen and assessing whether you have lined-up three features or not. I like bumpers that do something that moves the game along, even if it is random. Not just as "a place to put the ball."

One of the best sounds and feel to me is when the pinball goes crazy inside pop bumpers - love it!

I think the cluster of three pops (especially in a corner) is wasted. Throw a pop or two randomly around the rest of the playfield. Look at lots of the gottlieb widebodies, or something like Viking with the pops above the outlanes, or TNA. Single pops creatively placed can be really fun.

Shots through the pops are good, mostly because it means the pops are directly on the playfield, so you have more chance to bump into them and for the ball to fly out at weird angles. Aerosmith does it well with even using the other side of the pops to bounce the ball around the lock shots

I don't think we need to get rid of pop bumpers, but perhaps they need some innovation? They've hardly changed at all since the 60's (variations of the entire mech moving like EATPM or woz). Stern orbitor tried something new by simply making them spinning rubber discs. Maybe instead of firing the ball flat on the surface, you have a mech that lifts the ball (so it's like it's tossing it rather than bumping it).

And at least one has seven.

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What I'd like to see is them bring back the passive bumper. I don't think they've used those since the 60s.

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I always had this idea when I first played Mustang and IJ4 where you have those captive ball areas. I thought it would be cool to have a feature where a captive ball could be knocked into a small " single pop arena" and pop hits could be counted this way for bigger rewards.

1) It's something different.
2) It's harder to hit then most simple dumps into a pop nest.
3) It could fit a similar footprint, perhaps smaller.
4) It would cost less.
5) You could design it where it's tucked underneath a ramp entrance or top corners of the PF - the two least commonly used areas in modern designs.

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Gotcha covered. less the captive ball...

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Very nice. Wico's Big Top and the previously mentioned Beast's Lair both have single pops in an "arena" too, and I'm sure there are some others as well. But many of those examples just feel like a place for a passing ball to roll into and not a dedicated accuracy (and power) shot, which my captive ball idea above introduces.

Meteor has 2.

My BW100 has no pops either.

Pop bumpers are great when they're integrated well into the rules or into the game's actual flow/progression. Many of them are pointless, however, and designers throw them in there just because they feel that they need to.

The pop bumpers on Ghostbusters are great, because there is a risky exit, but not impossible to save (as opposed to cheap drains out of the pops on The Walking Dead). But man, I don't like the random pop bumper awards. It's really annoying to see those random awards mess up scoring balance in competition.

I agree that passive bumpers should get a look in modern pinball. I would also like to see less magnet bash toys and more exposed pop bumpers (as opposed to always putting them in a nest).

GNR has a dedicated captive ball into a pop bumper area if that is what you mean.

True, but in GnR, the exposed edge of the pop is a means to help you spell DUFF... kind of like how the slings in the Star Child area of Stern Kiss are the means to help you spell STAR. Those mechs aren't the actual goal, the standups are. In my idea you'd have to hit the captive ball enough to send it to the top, and then whatever you get from the pop (which is my actual target), you get.

But similar to the DUFF shot on GnE, being a captive ball design, you don't have to sit there and scratch your ass while you wait for the ball to come out of a pop nest, the ball is already back to the flippers while the captive ball is up in the pop arena. Both are good examples of something that IMO would be great on a Steve Ritchie game as it would keep stuff flying that much more.

Your setup looks pretty cool, but in the end it comes down to how much playfield real estate it would actually take up. But I like it!

Nested pops can be ok if incorporated into the rules in a meaningful way, ala Monster Bash. If they are only used for nominal points then they can be essentially "pointless".

I would like to see more variety in how they are used. The 3 pops in a confined space design approach is just too lazy.

Like on Hollywood Heat?

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EDIT: Nevermind didn't look at your drawing. I like your drawing better. Requires a hard shot to get the ball into the pop bumper area.