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(Topic ID: 251594)

Pop Bumper issue - Replaced -26-1200 with AO 26-1200 (diode)


By FlippinJimmy

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 33 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by FlippinJimmy
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 1 year ago

    Pop bumpers on my Getaway are lazy even after cleaning and replacing coil sleeves so I ended up getting new switches and coils. Replaced the 26-1200 with the AO 26-1200 which has a diode, original version did not, and now the bumpers are worse than lazy. Not working at all.

    I wired it the same way it was originally wired but am thinking the diode may be causing the issue.

    I do have a DVM but am not real proficient at using it to troubleshoot. Was thinking of switching the wires or diode direction to see if that changes anything. Recommendations?

    Thanks for your help.

    Pop Bumer (resized).JPG
    #2 1 year ago

    If the original coil didn't have a diode then you shouldn't have one on the new one. Plus, your wiring is backwards. The purple wires are the 50v. With no diode that doesn't matter but when the diode is there, if it's the wrong way, it causes a dead short and will probably blow a fuse if not the transistors as well.

    Coils rarely go bad. As long as the resistance on the old coil is fine then it doesn't need to be replaced. Weak pops are usually a result of a switch that is gapped too wide, or misaligned spoon. Less often the spoon can be dirty, or the mechanism might need a rebuild

    #3 1 year ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    If the original coil didn't have a diode then you shouldn't have one on the new one. Plus, your wiring is backwards. The purple wires are the 50v. With no diode that doesn't matter but when the diode is there, if it's the wrong way, it causes a dead short and will probably blow a fuse if not the transistors as well.
    Coils rarely go bad. As long as the resistance on the old coil is fine then it doesn't need to be replaced. Weak pops are usually a result of a switch that is gapped too wide, or misaligned spoon. Less often the spoon can be dirty, or the mechanism might need a rebuild

    Thank you for that information. Likely have a bad fuse as I have switched the wiring and it still doesn't work. Non of the pops work so fuse seems likely.

    #4 1 year ago
    Quoted from FlippinJimmy:

    Thank you for that information. Likely have a bad fuse as I have switched the wiring and it still doesn't work. Non of the pops work so fuse seems likely.

    There is no problem adding coils with diodes as long as they are wired correctly (the fat wire normally goes on the stripped side).

    So here is what happened, by reversing the wiring and applying voltage to the anode (non-striped side) you forward biased this diode, and as soon as the coil energized, the diode conducted as much current as you could give it right to ground, no current passed through the coil itself, so the coil is fine; however, this massive current draw immediately destroyed the diodes depletion region making it a dead short, the drive transistor P-N junction was also destroyed making it a dead short, and then the fuse blew.

    You must replace all of three of these items before continuing.

    EDIT...it sounds like your game didn't have a diode on the coil to start with, if this is the case, you can just remove the diode, rather than replacing it.

    #5 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pin_Guy:

    There is no problem adding coils with diodes as long as they are wired correctly (the fat wire normally goes on the stripped side).
    So here is what happened, by reversing the wiring and applying voltage to the anode (non-striped side) you forward biased this diode, and as soon as the coil energized, the diode conducted as much current as you could give it right to ground, no current passed through the coil itself, so the coil is fine; however, this massive current draw immediately destroyed the diodes depletion region making it a dead short, the drive transistor P-N junction was also destroyed making it a dead short, and then the fuse blew.
    You must replace all of three of these items before continuing.
    EDIT...it sounds like your game didn't have a diode on the coil to start with, if this is the case, you can just remove the diode, rather than replacing it.

    Damn, was afraid of that. Was trying to get the game up and running before work so I wired it like it was and forgot to check diode direction. You are right, no diodes to begin with. Wherever I purchased this coil it said a "replacement for Williams Getaway coils" .

    Is the PN transistor something I can replace myself with moderate soldering skills?

    #6 1 year ago
    Quoted from FlippinJimmy:

    Is the PN transistor something I can replace myself with moderate soldering skills?

    This is hard to answer, but I would tend to think so, assuming you can cut the transistor from the board, you can then simply heat the legs and pull them out one at a time; if you have a desoldering station, then yes, its very easy.

    Based on the wire colors in you picture VIO/ORG and BRN/BLU you are talking about replacing the drive transistor for SOL14, This is Q48 on the PDB, which is a standard TIP 102.

    Good luck!
    pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

    #7 1 year ago
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    #8 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pin_Guy:

    This is hard to answer, but I would tend to think so, assuming you can cut the transistor from the board, and then simply heat the legs and pull them out one at a time; if you have a desoldering station, then yes, its very easy.
    Based on the wire colors in you picture VIO/ORG and BRN/BLU you are talking about replacing the drive transistor for SOL14, This is Q48 on the PDB, which is a standard TIP 102.
    Good luck![quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

    Thank you for your help. I really appreciate it.

    #9 1 year ago

    I replaced the 3A SB fuse for the solenoids but did not replace Q48. I was hopping it was just the fuse. The new fuse blew right away. Is this evidence that Q48 is bad?

    Can I replace Q48 while installed in the machine or do I need to remove the whole board. (I think I know the answer but hopefu I don't have to remove the board)

    Thanks,

    #10 1 year ago

    Safer to pull the board to replace transistor.

    #11 1 year ago
    Quoted from FlippinJimmy:

    replaced the 3A SB fuse for the solenoids but did not replace Q48. I was hopping it was just the fuse. The new fuse blew right away. Is this evidence that Q48 is bad?

    Yes, you should also have heard the coil fire as soon as the game was powered on.

    Quoted from FlippinJimmy:

    Can I replace Q48 while installed in the machine or do I need to remove the whole board. (I think I know the answer but hopefu I don't have to remove the board)

    You have to remove the board in order to properly solder in the new transistor.

    #12 1 year ago

    Spent the last couple hours studying the internet and my DMM. Then I put the original coil back as it checked out okay. The new one with the destroyed diode also checked out okay once I removed the diode. I will keep it as a spare.

    Waiting on new fuses but was able to use the DMM to tell which ones are good and which are bad.

    Tyring to find out if I can tell if the Q48 diode is bad. Most likely it is but would like to test it just for my knowledge. Might need to invest in a better DMM though. Harbor Freight one seems to jump back and forth.

    #13 1 year ago

    With DMM on Ohms 2000K I put leads on the outer two leads on the transistor and I am getting 003 as a reading. If I flip the positive and negative lead I still get 003. Bad transistor, right?

    TI 120 (resized).jpg
    #14 1 year ago
    Quoted from FlippinJimmy:

    Tyring to find out if I can tell if the Q48 diode is bad. Most likely it is but would like to test it just for my knowledge. Might need to invest in a better DMM though. Harbor Freight one seems to jump back and forth.

    There is nothing you did that could hurt this diode as its held reverse biased by the +50V source voltage. The worst thing you could have done is equalized the voltage across this diode.

    #15 1 year ago

    Pin_Guy - Said Diode but meant transistor.

    #16 1 year ago
    Quoted from FlippinJimmy:

    With DMM on Ohms 2000K I put leads on the outer two leads on the transistor and I am getting 003 as a reading. If I flip the positive and negative lead I still get 003. Bad transistor, right?

    Best thing to do is to just compare it with one of the adjacent transistors as they should all read about the same. Typical troubleshooting would be to measure from C-E as it should have high resistance when off, a failed transistor would measure a low resistance from collector to emitter (C-E) allowing it to conduct when off.

    NOTE: The center pin on a TO-220 transistor is bonded to the metal tab.

    #17 1 year ago

    If I am reading the DMM correctly I am getting 625 on Q48 transistor and about 630-657 on a couple surrounding ones. If Q48 is still good what else can I look for that may cause the fuse to blow?

    #18 1 year ago

    Replaced the 3A fuse and put old coil back on machine. When I turn on power the fuse does not blow but the coil activates and pulls the plunger in and it stays this way until I turn off power. Is this an indication of a bad transistor?

    #19 1 year ago
    Quoted from FlippinJimmy:

    Replaced the 3A fuse and put old coil back on machine. When I turn on power the fuse does not blow but the coil activates and pulls the plunger in and it stays this way until I turn off power. Is this an indication of a bad transistor?

    Yes, that indicates the transistor that controls the coil is almost assuredly bad. Testing in the game with all the connectors attached can give you a false reading.

    #20 1 year ago
    Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

    Yes, that indicates the transistor that controls the coil is almost assuredly bad. Testing in the game with all the connectors attached can give you a false reading.

    Thanks for responding. Will replace it.

    #21 1 year ago
    Quoted from FlippinJimmy:

    If I am reading the DMM correctly I am getting 625 on Q48 transistor and about 630-657 on a couple surrounding ones. If Q48 is still good what else can I look for that may cause the fuse to blow?

    Have you removed or replaced that diode on the replacement coil??

    #22 1 year ago

    Please let me know where I failed in this post so I can be more clear on this in future posts.

    pasted_image (resized).png
    #23 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pin_Guy:

    Please let me know where I failed in this post so I can be more clear on this in future posts.[quoted image]

    Your post was perfectly clear. I had hoped the transistor survived and based on the reading from the DMM it appeared it had. The reading of Q48 was similar to the surrounding transistors. I have new transistors so will be replacing Q48 soon.

    I removed the diode from the coil as it was no longer good but I also put the original coil back in.

    Thanks again.

    #24 1 year ago

    If your machine has a capacitor on the pop bumper switch it could be shorted causing the coil to lock on.

    #25 1 year ago

    I think I screwed this up when removing the transistor. Here is a photo of the back side of the board. Did I remove the pad?

    IMG_7979 (resized).JPG
    #26 1 year ago

    Here is the front side.

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    #27 1 year ago

    You did, yes. Luckily the traces still reach the hole, so you can probably still solder to them

    In the future try to use less heat, and make sure the solder is fully removed/melted while pulling out the legs

    #28 1 year ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    You did, yes. Luckily the traces still reach the hole, so you can probably still solder to them
    In the future try to use less heat, and make sure the solder is fully removed/melted while pulling out the legs

    Yeah, I was afraid of that. I don't have the eyesight or steady hand for soldering.

    #29 1 year ago
    Quoted from FlippinJimmy:

    I think I screwed this up when removing the transistor. Here is a photo of the back side of the board. Did I remove the pad?

    I've seen much worse, its an easy repair if you want it professionally repaired, or like zacaj mentioned the traces look good and while not ideal, you can probably get it to work if you can solder the top side legs to the traces; the downside here is that it any future repairs will be more difficult.

    #30 1 year ago

    This is an example of a before and after of a botched repair that actually pulled pads AND traces off the board.

    Before:
    pasted_image (resized).png

    After:
    pasted_image (resized).png

    #31 1 year ago

    Guys, thank you very much. Happy to say that the Getaway is working again and the pop bumbers, with new switches, are much stronger now. Should we ever meet first round, and possibly second and third, on me.

    Feel like I can play the other machines now that this one is fixed.

    #32 1 year ago
    Quoted from FlippinJimmy:

    Guys, thank you very much. Happy to say that the Getaway is working again and the pop bumbers, with new switches, are much stronger now.

    Awesome!

    #33 1 year ago

    Final update for those having similar issues -

    As mentioned in this thread, I did not need to replace the coils. They were not bad. There was no damage and the sleeve came out of all the coils without issue. In trying to refurb the machine I added a new coil I did not need and blew the transistor, the diode on the coil and the fuse when I wired the coil wrong and put power on the wrong side of the diode.

    When removing the old transistor I didn't use the proper tools. Had I used a solder sucker I likely would not have taken the pads off the board. Not having a sucker I pushed the solder and cut leg of the transistor through the back side of the board while trying to remove the solder with solder removing wire. The tip of the soldering iron, although small, was also pushed through partly and I believe removed the pad.

    In the future I will use the proper tools or simply send it to someone with a steady hand and more experience like Pin Guy.

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