My buddy has the perfect solution for slide saves. He put Pingulp cup holders on both sides of his games. Leaves only about an inch between cup holders. Enough room for some nugging and a hard slap save but that’s about it.
It’s also pretty easy to see where this discussion is going. The competitive players will always say it not cheating because it’s allowed in IFPA and the more casual players like myself will say it’s cheating. I would have never guessed it was allowed in tournaments until after about 5 season in league. Now I know it’s allowed but still feel it’s a cheating move so don’t do it often.

Under this guideline wouldn't a death save follow the same rules???? What makes one legal and the other not legal?

Kind of bad picture to use against a cheating or not cheating discussion. A lot of people would call the upside down tilt bob as cheating. With the bulk of the weight on top in stead of the bottom it reduces the amount of time it takes for the pendulum to stop swinging and the distance it will swing verse having the weight on the bottom.

bob (resized).jpg

You are correct. They are called Biff bars. Or at least that's what I always thought they were called. They are put there to help stop death saves and bounce backs.
If you look at Xenon where there is a post to be able to nudge a ball back into play similar to a death save. You will notice the Biff bars are placed different and the one on the left is much smaller.
biff (resized).jpg

Actually they did!!!
Most EM and early SS pins had a SLAM tilt switch on the backside of the playfield for just that reason. To keep people from sliding the game to save a ball. If you slid the game it was game over! Why??? Because slide saves were not intended to be part of how the game was played. This is why I will always say it should be illegal and always believed it was. It’s only through the tilt warnings and de bounce that people can now get away with sliding the game and have a good chance of not tilting.
To clarify I'm refereeing to a slide save as moving the feet more then an inch or two from original position not nudging from side to side.
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I'm willing to bet that the removal of the slam tilts were just another part of cost cutting. I'm pretty sure the manufacturers never had a board meeting with people sitting around talking about how the effect of removing a tilt switch would alow people to start slide saving.

Hey, since it's considered legal and possible to do now. I'm right there with ya. I'm not saying I won't do it. I'm saying I will always feel like I'm cheating when doing it.

Yes, only the EM's and a few SS would be game over. The others would tilt.
There were three types of slam tilts.
1: slam tilt on coin door. "Easily achieved by kicking the coin box "
2: ball roll slam tilt on front side of cab. "lifting the machine past horizontal"
3: lateral slam tilt on the bottom side of playfield. Was activated by shoving the game one side or the other. Same as a slide save that moves the game more then an inch or two.
The IPDB only references to two of the three.

"Tilting the game so violently that it immediately stops all games in progress and reboots "
And how do you tilt? By moving a game. And how do you do a slide save? By shoving the game to one side or the other or sometimes side to side.
"This type of behavior will also get you thrown out of an arcade and is considered very bad manners."
Correct. Any of the arcades I played at would have kicked you out for moving a game like in that Congo video no matter how much you tried to claim it was a slide save.

I do have a similar question for you. I see people hitting the sides of a pin when the ball is bouncing around the top of the outlanes.
Is this legal to slap the side of a game during a tournament or league play?

Sort of correct. The other two Slam tilts have nothing to do with a slide save. And you won't find any document using the the words "slide save" But its exact function is to stop the game from being trusted from one side or the other when the ball is in play. Which is what? The same thing you are doing with a slide save.

I know, but it's more fun listing things here and watching people get bent out of shape because some of us think some things should be illegal or not.
Now if your done bugging me. I need to get back to practicing my slide save for next seasons league.

My cat is the topper.

bad cats (resized).jpg

I'll bite. I'm in the excessive slide saves should be illegal club. As I've stated before a slide save should not be more then an inch or two. We have used my place for over a dozen or so unsanctioned tournaments. Following same rules as league. And yes people slide my games. I do too. But my games are tight in the line up so you can only move so far before heads hit. (Which has happened once) I don't think sliding a game is going to cause damage to the cab joints but do know in a tight lineup you can damage the head. And like yourself I worry more about my games playing in top shape. Same way when I take my games to shows. Every single year one or more of my games have been used for tournaments by the show. I could care less about the games being slide or shaken roughly while playing. But I will still say when your sliding a game 6,8,10 inches across the floor this should be a DQ.

I'll rearrange it for you.
"If you can slide a game within a two inch margin skillfully enough not to tilt, I deserve to keep playing out that ball."
That I can agree with 100%. It's when players go out of this zone or across a foul line that should be a penalty. Just like many other games or sports. There should be a perimeter or foul line. But I'm just as guilty with shoving games across the line to save a ball. If it's others are doing it so will I. Doesn't change my belief that it should be penalized though.

So you're saying Pinburgh agrees that it is legal but makes the games so you can't do it.
Hmm, sounds to me like they are against slide saves also. Which is kind of funny because even though I'm vocally against slide saves I put carpet sliders on my games to make it easier to do a slide save. LOL

What is the difference between this thread and a LED or not to LED thread? None. It's just a pinball topic with different opinions.

Actually, you are just trolling.

Still trolling. LOL

The thread would have died long ago if it wasn't for the trolling by yourself and many others.
Op made thread,
Retaliation of the people begins.
Someone will make a post that actually contributes to discussion for one side or the other.
Op responds,
4 or 5 troll/joke/pictures or just nonsense posts pop up after his response.
Wash rinse repeat.

Seriously if you are so offended by ops opinion and 31% of the poll then why don't you just drain it. Maybe the 31% would like to discuss why they feel it should be illegal. I'll hate to brake it to ya but it's ok to have different opinions. We can still be friends.

Agreed. 45 years of playing on and off and up until a year and a half ago never slide a game to move a ball. Simply put, you couldn't on the older games. If you slide the game or even moved it hard enough to move legs from original position they were in it would tilt almost every time.

I did the same thing and won my division in our league playoffs on the last game, last ball in 3rd place. Saved the ball with a slide save then went on to win the game beating all others players scored combined. This was just two weeks ago. But I still in the no camp.

Or sliding his chain a little.

Actually there have been a few people mention to me about some of the players sliding the game to save the ball not being right. And one person that has played in your tournaments. Do you really think new people are going to complain to you (the person that runs the league) heck I didn’t even complain when I first joined the league. And you know how much I like to complain.
Here is a question for you. Does it show in the video you play at orientation about sliding the game being a legal move. Also have you stated it in your speech?

Then maybe you should make sure to mention some things like these in orientation. I’ve been playing for 45 years and had to ask at league of it was legal. Same way with slapping the side of a cab. To anyone off the street or that never played in a league before would probably think it was illegal.
Also of you followed the Friday night pinball chat that you are a member of. There is a statement in there about people sliding games during a tournament. Not behind your back at all. PS. Wasn’t me. LOL

You know I don’t use email. an extensive response???
That’s it!!! <—throws hat in the ground. If you don’t see me at orientation that’s means I’m NOT coming!..............
I’ll be there the first week though. Never make orientation. Gotta save my pinball money for parts.

I’ll agree with most of your statement except for the part of always being a part of pinball. You simply couldn’t slide save a game that didn’t have tilt warnings. They would tilt on anything more then a nudge. Your closes thing was a strong slap save.

Ok, ok, Yeah I used to consider it a slide save on older games myself. Compared to what I see going on now I only consider it a juggling the tilt trough strong nudging. But I'll say I stand corrected. You could slide save a game without tilt warning to a small extent.

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Even Homer is sliding.
That cheater!!!

Well they say 6 inches is the average slide for white males.