Boulder, CO
Quoted from DirtyDeeds:Rubber feet AND sliders on short carpet. Tilt about medium so can't get away with TOO much.[quoted image]
What is the point of the rubber feet if you’re putting them in sliders?
(Topic ID: 251816)
Woolgoolga
Quoted from ryanwanger:What is the point of the rubber feet if you’re putting them in sliders?
Protects the carpet mate.
Quoted from ryanwanger:What is the point of the rubber feet if you’re putting them in sliders?
So I don't get leveler shaped bumps on the bottom of the sliders, which are just foam rubber and plastic. I've had sliders split before.
Roosendaal
When we slide , slap save and nudge here in our house its considered good play, but tilt and its over..!
When I go next door and perform the same moves with someone else she calls it cheating.. go figure!!
Kitchener, ON
Quoted from punkin:I wonder if a machine that spits a ball straight from the scoop straight down the guts should be sanctioned for cheating a player?
Is there a poll for that?
This is a good point. If your playing in a tournament that allows slide saves, and the game is supposed to serve the ball straight toward the flipper, but for whatever reason the ball heads straight down the middle. Do you (to the guys that don’t move the game) A) just let the 3 balls drain. B) leave the tournament because the game isn’t working perfectly. C) complain that the players who slide the game are cheating. Or D) complain that game is cheating.
Is there another option that you would pursue? Leveling the game just for you isn’t an option because half the tournament has already played the game as is.
Quoted from DirtyDeeds:So I don't get leveler shaped bumps on the bottom of the sliders, which are just foam rubber and plastic. I've had sliders split before.
But what’s the point of the third set of covers? Haha. Triple duty!
Quoted from Luckydogg420:This is a good point. If your playing in a tournament that allows slide saves, and the game is supposed to serve the ball straight toward the flipper, but for whatever reason the ball heads straight down the middle. Do you (to the guys that don’t move the game) A) just let the 3 balls drain. B) leave the tournament because the game isn’t working perfectly. C) complain that the players who slide the game are cheating. Or D) complain that game is cheating.
Is there another option that you would pursue? Leveling the game just for you isn’t an option because half the tournament has already played the game as is.
You're saying it's Supposed to serve the ball to the flipper? ... but 100% of the time it serves the ball SDTM?
Sounds to me like something in the game must be some way or another f*@#3d!? Lol
What game is this?
D) Complain that the game is cheating
E) Fix it ? 
(for me at least,I do)
Besides, for us nobody whom might have slid the game would still be playing, anyway.
I think games for tournaments should at least be working properly. Yeah it's never going to be perfect of failure free, but I wouldn't run a game like that in one of our tournaments (100% drains) ,not until its issue has been rectified at least.
Yeah it is a fair bit of work. But it's worth it to have games that are playing "well".
Quoted from MrBubbles:That's fair. I guess some people like to pay for expensive repairs. Whether it's cars or pins... or anything else. I prefer to take care of what I have, have it retain its value, have less maintenance, so I can buy even more cool stuff. But to each their own.
No worries. I prefer to play with my toys and enjoy them as opposed to worrying about resale value or potential repairs. 
Quoted from MrBubbles:I prefer to take care of what I have, have it retain its value, have less maintenance
These 3 things are mutually exclusive to each other.
Taking care of of something doesn’t mean it will retain value or be maintenance free.
Just because you thoroughly use a product doesn’t mean it will require more maintenance or that it’s value will drop.
And a heavily maintained item will not necessarily be worth less or has been treated worse.
Another question for the non sliders.
If you were to buy a used game and found out that the previous owner regularly used slid saves on the machine. Would you walk away from the deal?
You know, because of all the destruction that they’ve caused on the game.
Quoted from razorsedge:There are too many whom have previously turned away, based on stuff like "too serious and competetive for me". ...
That has nothing to do with slide saves. That is all about the people. I'm starting to get the opinion that you should take some drywall screws and screw the legs of your games directly to the floor. Then put in remote control switches and not allow people to touch the game physically.
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:No worries. I prefer to play with my toys and enjoy them as opposed to worrying about resale value or potential repairs.
I can fix damage, but of course that has costs. I have resurrected numerous trashed (broken cabinet) pins. You can pick em up Real cheap!
I just don't slide anymore because I feel like I'm cheating when I have done it, thus taking the enjoyment out for me. I don't feel the need to do it just so I can compete with someone whom would or does.
Just because some people create conditions where there is little to no damage, does not mean different conditions do not cause damage when attempting to slide. So there are two reasons just to start with, for why I don't slide save, nor believe in it.
So yeah I do completely enjoy pinball, playing the toys, without the urge to slide. I also enjoy maintaining them! . Other people can do what they enjoy, wherever it is appropriate, too.
I don't sell pins so resale doesn't matter to me. Cost of repairs and maintenance is enough already though, without adding additional unnecessary wear and tear costs from excessively rough treatment.
Too many good reasons to ban it from our tourneys, and very few for allowing it.
Quoted from InfiniteLives:Do you erase the high scores players get if they performed a slide save during the action?
Well they won't get to finish their game. If an initial needed to be put in that would be "DNQ" or "A$$" or something, I suppose Lol
If it is early SS, f*k yeah their HSTD value is cleared after the rest have completed the match!
Quoted from DaveH:That has nothing to do with slide saves. That is all about the people. I'm starting to get the opinion that you should take some drywall screws and screw the legs of your games directly to the floor. Then put in remote control switches and not allow people to touch the game physically.
It has everything to do with attitude, and Jo Bloe "new have a go" players seeing it as extreme, or "cheating" to be blunt... it is certainly a stark contrast to pinside, that's for sure. Nobody seems to have any problem with average nudging, though. It's just back to the seriousness and aggressiveness it seems. Different worlds maybe. Who knows.
Now I know, come to our events, slide games or unreasonably rough treatment, minimum one warning only... or with discretion straight out.
I have just been too lenient up til now, that's all. You can't try to slide, on our surface, without possibility of causing damage. Sliding will not be accepted.
Fun, though, is encouraged! That includes Nudging and every other move that pinball has within it!
If the top players in the world use slide saves in top level competition.
I wonder. Are there any top level players in your personal group?
Could the lack of slide saves in your venue be preventing good players from becoming great players?
With over $100000 given in prizes at some tournaments. I'd like to use every skill available to ensure I dont get beat by someone that uses the skill.
Unless your just playing for fun and not actually competing to be the best you'd want to learn that skill
Quoted from razorsedge:Nobody seems to have any problem with average nudging
This is not true. As stated by someone else earlier, they hear a lot of new players say nudging is cheating. I've heard this myself from new players. My wife used to tell me that when she was just starting to play pinball. Now she is a more advanced player and nudges better than me and no longer thinks it's cheating. But I have heard other beginning players say nudging is cheating. I think as players learn more how to play they accept nudging as a skill and the same with slide saves as they learn it and not see it as cheating.
Quoted from razorsedge:I just don't slide anymore because I feel like I'm cheating when I have done it, thus taking the enjoyment out for me. I don't feel the need to do it just so I can compete with someone whom would or does.
Just because you feel dirty when you do it, doesn't mean it's wrong.
The majority has agreed that it's ok.
Quoted from kguenther6:This is not true. As stated by someone else earlier, they hear a lot of new players say nudging is cheating. I've heard this myself from new players. My wife used to tell me that when she was just starting to play pinball. Now she is a more advanced player and nudges better than me and no longer thinks it's cheating. But I have heard other beginning players say nudging is cheating. I think as players learn more how to play they accept nudging as a skill and the same with slide saves as they learn it and not see it as cheating.
soo, you are saying opinions can change... interesting... so when you wife keeps getting better at pinball and starts slide saving what happen then lol
My opinion is that if the machines were meant to be slid, they would have wheels or rollers. To me, the machine is supposed stay in position. I mean look at it, does anyone who is not involved in this community think to themselves that it should be moved?? No way..
In reality, who cares, everyone has their own opinions. And I agree with others, if its such a worry, fix the tilt bob...
Quoted from Luckydogg420:If the top players in the world use slide saves in top level competition.
I wonder. Are there any top level players in your personal group?
Could the lack of slide saves in your venue be preventing good players from becoming great players?
With over $100000 given in prizes at some tournaments. I'd like to use every skill available to ensure I dont get beat by someone that uses the skill.
Unless your just playing for fun and not actually competing to be the best you'd want to learn that skill
Quite a few players in Australia's top 50 travel a fair way to our events (get on planes and stuff), and are pinball friends
People that I otherwise wouldn't have met. It really is great! . Pinball!
Of course some are more serious than others. That is their passion; they want to play at the top level of pinball, enjoy the greater challenge, commitment. I can admire what they want to do. Overwhelmingly top visiting players have been very respectful and understanding of the rules, and (so far) have not been protesting to me that Sys11 (etc.) multi-player games must be split because of "lock stealing" either. Some I know would certainly like to slide, but they accept the past tournament rules pretty well so far. They are also all great people, I've played pinball with them (some alot), and we're friends. I love to watch some of the Fu@*1ng Impressive pinball skills on show!!. I admire their dedication and impressive playing abilities.
Me personally on the other hand, I am one of those "just playing for fun and not actually competing to be the best". I like to get a good score if I can, of course, and I also like to nudge, and successfully unlock random s#1t! Lol . If I play well that's a bonus, but no I'm not going to the world championships. However some of the new players that come to play with us might want to!? . They'll just have to go with the flow stick to basics at our events, and practice some sliding at other places, can't do any harm. I am also organising tournaments that people flock to from the city, and have been adding some new local players too.
I do enjoy holding events, and playing pinball with friends. For me, my focus and motivation is more on that, and restoring/maintaining machines. So that people can enjoy playing them.... fully working. 
Now that I realise I can possibly make exceptions to IFPA guidelines by gazzeting them with the other info, I'd just do that for any future events. People whom like to slide or prefer to split matches for lock stealing etc are of course all just as welcome, but have to agree to have a break from practicing those procedures at our little bush tournaments.
There is also more, about our surface conditions, that I am sure most have not considered. Explaining a bit about why slides, in the conditions we have to deal with, would cause significant damage more instances than an average. But that would have to be for another day.... I'm stuffed Lol
Quoted from TheLaw:"Slide save documentation" is the shoooter lane pics of the 2020s
Its the new CarFax lol
Quoted from Rager170:In reality, who cares
Tournament players competing for cash care.
When real world dollar are at stake it matters. At home with your own game do whatever you want. But I play to win, and I'll use every rule in the book as an advantage if I can. If the tournament director doesn't want it, then that's the rule. But once you get to the big leagues it makes a difference
Quoted from Luckydogg420:Just because you feel dirty when you do it, doesn't mean it's wrong.
The majority has agreed that it's ok.
...and the minority (in this thread/topic demographic at least) call it "cheating the game".... over 100 people, not just me.
The minority still count. Unless you want to exclude them.
Quoted from Luckydogg420:Tournament players competing for cash care.
When real world dollar are at stake it matters. At home with your own game do whatever you want. But I play to win, and I'll use every rule in the book as an advantage if I can. If the tournament director doesn't want it, then that's the rule. But once you get to the big leagues it makes a difference
I hear ya. If thats the case, then no, I certainly wouldnt agree with that maneuver. As said, my opinion is that Pinball Machines are stationary. Nobody looks at a pinball machine in the real world and thinks they are supposed to be moved. haha, only the pinball diehards..
I would also be questioning the tilt bob placement in these leagues for money... There should be a standard.
Quoted from DirtyDeeds:Rubber feet AND sliders on short carpet. Tilt about medium so can't get away with TOO much.[quoted image]
LOL. Make sure that slider stays on that foot.
Quoted from kguenther6:This is not true. As stated by someone else earlier, they hear a lot of new players say nudging is cheating. I've heard this myself from new players. My wife used to tell me that when she was just starting to play pinball. Now she is a more advanced player and nudges better than me and no longer thinks it's cheating. But I have heard other beginning players say nudging is cheating. I think as players learn more how to play they accept nudging as a skill and the same with slide saves as they learn it and not see it as cheating.
Sorry if I wasn't clear enough to avoid confusion here:
Nobody seems to have any problem with average nudging *in our pool of local "Jo Bloe walk in new players"....
I guess if I don't remind of the context people start to forget about their amnesia! Ha ha . Sorry for not being specific mate.
Here I have not heard a single "new player" (locally) think or say nudging is cheating, they recall it as simply part of pinball. The same is not true for Sliding however. That is how it is here in the experience. Pretty reasonable. Correction conveyed.
Quoted from razorsedge:Sorry if I wasn't clear enough to avoid confusion here:
Nobody seems to have any problem with average nudging *in our pool of local "Jo Bloe walk in new players"....
I guess if I don't remind of the context people start to forget about their amnesia. Sorry for not being specific mate.
Here I have not heard a single "new player" (locally) think or say nudging is cheating, they recall it as part of pinball. The same is not true for Sliding however. That is how it is here in the experience. Pretty reasonable. Correction conveyed.
well since over 70% say it's ok. I guess the census is, is that it's ok. Also, those that play competitive pinball tournaments on a regular basis, should be worth 1.5 votes, since they know what is, and what is not allowed for the big time tournaments. If national and world championships allow it, it's allowed and ok.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:well since over 70% say it's ok. I guess the census is, is that it's ok. Also, those that play competitive pinball tournaments on a regular basis, should be worth 1.5 votes, since they know what is, and what is not allowed for the big time tournaments. If national and world championships allow it, it's allowed and ok.
And the probability that most on pinside whom might consider it as "cheating the game" and are into pinball "just for fun" would not even bother to look in a thread that appears to be a discussion about competitive pinball rules, would have to make each of those votes worth 3 for every 1... after balancing... so more like 50-50 then 
LOL poll results don't seem to be going the way the OP intended when he created this nonsensical thread.
Fake News'd
Quoted from Luckydogg420:Just because you feel dirty when you do it, doesn't mean it's wrong.
It usually means the exact opposite!
Quoted from razorsedge:And the probability that most on pinside whom might consider it as "cheating the game" and are into pinball "just for fun" would not even bother to look in a thread that appears to be a discussion about competitive pinball rules, would have to make each of those votes worth 3 for every 1... after balancing... so more like 50-50 then
That's one of the funniest things I've heard all week. I don't like the numbers I have, so I'll just come up with a reason to skew them so they fit my objective.
Stay out of my laboratory.
Quoted from anathematize:LOL poll results don't seem to be going the way the OP intended when he created this nonsensical thread.
Fake News'd
I know right! ... I honestly expected more like 10% yes vote, considering.
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:That's one of the funniest things I've heard all week. I don't like the numbers I have, so I'll just come up with a reason to skew them so they fit my objective.
Stay out of my laboratory.
He was just doing that because the other dude, did that as well haha
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:That's one of the funniest things I've heard all week. I don't like the numbers I have, so I'll just come up with a reason to skew them so they fit my objective.
It's just a response to the poster who started "not liking the numbers", and multiplying "no" votes by 1.5
I find it equally funny? 
Really Is starting to sound like politics! 
See what I did there
Quoted from bbaker2824:I take nice games to Expo every year. I set the tilts tight. On several occasions I've seen machines get the shit beat out of them. One time a guy almost tipped one over(not mine). Slide saves and beating the shit out of machines is fine if it's yours. If it's somone else's show a little respect.
How often in a tournament does the machine belong to the actual player?
A big part of this "prohibiting" slide saves at our local events, is wanting to encourage a couple of private owners of the collective to resume putting their fine machines into our lower tier tournaments. I fully understand their concern, and without them the variety is much less. We are talking about stuff like POTCLE, MBr, AFMr, SoRLE, Alien, TOTAN, Addams Family, Deadpool LE, Indiana Jones, Dialed In LE, Theater of Magic, MMr, The Hobbit LE, ACDC Premium ... to name a few. All Immaculate condition!. These are not my games. Nice to have in the events, absolutely, but we won't have any of them in future unless being rough on machines and slide saving is clamped down on, tightly.
The rules are set, people can elect to Not come and play the games if they don't like the rules... that is okay.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Sounds like you need to learn how to nudge.
\\
No I'm fine. I can nudge okay thanks, I know what it is. Lol
I don't have any need or desire to slide in order to make it fun for me.
I can accept the machine defeating me if "legitimate nudging" isn't enough.
Quoted from razorsedge:And the probability that most on pinside whom might consider it as "cheating the game" and are into pinball "just for fun" would not even bother to look in a thread that appears to be a discussion about competitive pinball rules, would have to make each of those votes worth 3 for every 1... after balancing... so more like 50-50 then
I am into pinball just for fun.
Quoted from Tomass:I am into pinball just for fun.
Why would anyone be into pinball if they didnt find it fun?
Quoted from razorsedge:And the probability that most on pinside whom might consider it as "cheating the game" and are into pinball "just for fun" would not even bother to look in a thread that appears to be a discussion about competitive pinball rules, would have to make each of those votes worth 3 for every 1... after balancing... so more like 50-50 then
Just like everyone is not a Engineer....
Not everybody is a Statistician.... 
Lol
Quoted from razorsedge:I can nudge okay thanks, I know what it is.
But can you wink? (Nudge nudge, wink wink.)
London
Well, we obviously all have too much free time to spend here!
I’ll take the next turn off this circle we’re riding
Quoted from Rager170:Why would anyone be into pinball if they didnt find it fun?
Just for fun is the key.
Quoted from Tomass:Just for fun is the key.
Ahhhh i see.
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