(Topic ID: 251816)

Poll : Is a "slide save" (moving the feet) cheating the game?


By razorsedge

8 months ago



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    Topic poll

    “Poll : Is a "slide save" (moving the feet) cheating the game?”

    • Yes, slide saving is cheating the game. 174 votes
      32%
    • No, slide saving is not cheating the game. 365 votes
      68%

    (539 votes)

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    There are 781 posts in this topic. You are on page 15 of 16.
    #701 8 months ago
    Quoted from razorsedge:

    Well, I can't think of any sports where moving the goal posts or changing the boundaries/setup/conditions of the arena during a match is considered legitimate.

    I can. It’s called pinball. Have you been playing it correctly?

    #702 8 months ago
    Quoted from razorsedge:

    Well, I can't think of any sports where moving the goal posts or changing the boundaries/setup/conditions of the arena during a match is considered legitimate.
    Messing with these conditions is simply not in the spirit of the game to me, besides any of the other concerns around it.
    It is only the demographic here in this "thread" where a majority seem to say it is legitimate. Cyberspace... Stark contrast to the physical world so it turns out. Who would have thunk it Lol
    The layman seems to agree wholeheartedly that it is not in the spirit of the game, only the more "competitive" side seems to have a fettish with wanting to slide games about. Says it all why people avoid "competetive" pinball, but yet flock to "meets".
    I guess it is to be expected that "competitive" players would rush in here more than anyone else to defend their beliefs. Those not interested in competitive pinball have no reason to face the abuse, or even bother polling. As I have said before I kind of expected more like 10% given the kind of players that would be most interested in sliding in here to the poll. So to see over 30% say it is cheating the game, is way more than I ever expected.
    I'll just stick with recreational fun meets. Easy

    really- recreational fun meets?
    https://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/99667-Bowland-Pinball-Challenge-2019-Port-Pirie

    -2
    #703 8 months ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    I can’t think of any other sport where a move is 100% legitimate, allowed in the rules, and yet some players of the sport decide not to use that maneuver, for no good reason.

    Since when has a Layman ever been considered an expert on anything. You consult the professional to find the right answer, just like with anything else in life.

    It is only 100% legitimate to you, and whomever else wants to impose their view.

    Right now it is about 70% legitimate at best.

    This is gold!

    #704 8 months ago

    Yeah, you are welcome to come to that one! ... but there is no sliding.

    The unsanctioned fun events are at any number of private places, a club. To play the flash games. They don't come out anymore (for tourneys). People were too rough with games a couple too many times in the past (tight tilts, but careless players too, "testing")... limiting the variety of machines we now get for IFPA events. I still subject my "good" games to the "tourney environment", but I don't expect anyone else to. A couple of guys do still put machines in, but none of their "good" games.

    Our last club meet had more than twice the attendance than our last IFPA event. Guess what! , no sliding

    That is also the last big IFPA event I will be organising, unless we hold the SA
    Masters again, in 2021. Looking unlikely. There's no real reason to continue organising IFPA events. Somebody else can do it if they want to.

    Love that this topic now helps get some extra traffic to AA for trav! ... Thanks for the link mate!!

    #705 8 months ago

    A good poll would be: does the OP nudge, even just a little?

    #706 8 months ago
    Quoted from razorsedge:

    Right now it is about 70% legitimate at best.

    Right now you’re about 27.6% legitimately best, but that number is falling fast.

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    #707 8 months ago
    Quoted from razorsedge:

    Or a feature from MM.... "TROLLS!"

    Ahh No, i voted, and after reading through the first few pages it became evidently clear that no one could troll this thread better than you have yourself good sir and yea verily did i abscond from commenting.....until now of course.

    #708 8 months ago
    Quoted from arcademojo:

    But I still in the no camp.

    Fair enough. We'll now institute a new rule. Anyone with the handle arcademojo seen slide saving will receive an automatic 0 on the game. I'll go ahead and add that now.

    Quoted from razorsedge:

    What about what it could be? ... there is alot of missed opportunity, fact is plenty of people exclude themselves due to this kind of stuff. Especially locally, at least.

    *I mean, wouldn't doubling that growth rate be desirable, if that were what happened by including everybody?

    I'm a relatively new TD, only holding 82 IFPA registered events in the last 3 years or so. I've spoke to tons of random bar patrons that walk in during events along with every new person that either joined, or considered joining our league.

    Not once in those 3 years and 82 events have I ever heard someone say...."I would join, but I saw that guy cheating the game by moving it around".

    As for your bullshit "cheating the game", I guess Sammy Sosa was just "cheating the game" when he was caught with a corked bat.

    You can drop the play on words because everyone sees through your shit.

    -2
    #709 8 months ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    Right now you’re about 27.6% legitimately best, but that number is falling fast.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

    "No" vote is 69% , goofball. Why do you keep looking at your troll downvotes? .... the Poll says 31% do not see sliding as legitimate. That's it!. That is not "100% legitimate" mate...

    Same with this as with the topic, making it personal. The Poll is reflecting the Legitimacy here. 69% at the moment. Up the top there...

    #710 8 months ago
    Quoted from Mancave:

    Ahh No, i voted, and after reading through the first few pages it became evidently clear that no one could troll this thread better than you have yourself good sir and yea verily did i abscond from commenting.....until now of course.

    I quoted you to reply, sorry I didn't mean to point that at you mate, it was supposed to be referring to the other "regulars" besides myself Lol

    Apologies, I pressed quote to the wrong post

    #711 8 months ago
    Quoted from razorsedge:

    What about what it could be? ... there is alot of missed opportunity, fact is plenty of people exclude themselves due to this kind of stuff. Especially localy, at least.
    *I mean, wouldn't doubling that growth rate be desirable, if that were what happened by including everybody?

    How are they not including everybody? As mentioned to you many many times the IFPA rules are not commandments. You can make any rules you want. As stated many times nothing is stopping you from making a no slide rule if that is what you feel is needed to make everyone feel welcomed. Your tournament will still be accepted by the IFPA. The rest of the world can still continue with slide saves if that is what they want to do and you can have your tournaments with a no slide rule. Both will be accepted by the IFPA. How is that not including everyone? But if they were to not allow the slide save (which seems to be liked by the majority of people according to your poll) and not allow that rule to be changed, wouldn't that be excluding many more people than allowing the slide save and still allow you to make it illegal in your own tournaments?

    #712 8 months ago

    I stand by my original post.

    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    This thread is a fucking joke. It’s just someone looking for conformation to their narrow mindedness. Then they argue that theirs a bias when the majority don’t agree. Just a fuckng joke.

    Edit. Spelling

    #714 8 months ago
    Quoted from kguenther6:

    How are they not including everybody? As mentioned to you many many times the IFPA rules are not commandments. You can make any rules you want. As stated many times nothing is stopping you from making a no slide rule if that is what you feel is needed to make everyone feel welcomed. Your tournament will still be accepted by the IFPA. The rest of the world can still continue with slide saves if that is what they want to do and you can have your tournaments with a no slide rule. Both will be accepted by the IFPA. How is that not including everyone? But if they were to not allow the slide save (which seems to be liked by the majority of people according to your poll) and not allow that rule to be changed, wouldn't that be excluding many more people than allowing the slide save and still allow you to make it illegal in your own tournaments?

    I used to wonder why so many people whom are into playing pinball, aren't interested when it comes to getting involved with "tournaments".

    Short story is, I don't wonder anymore.

    It's all good!

    #715 8 months ago
    Quoted from Blitzburgh99:

    A good poll would be: does the OP nudge, even just a little?

    Yep absolutely, all of us playing here nudge!

    #716 8 months ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    I stand by my original post.

    Edit. Spelling

    Still hung up on somebody winning. Whatever that means.

    100% ?

    Knew I shoulda had 3 options

    #717 8 months ago

    If you have to ask a morally ambiguous question like this and poll for support of your cause then obviously no matter what people say, you still have your opinion. And that's what it is. If you learned better ball control you would not be in this multiple page argument mess of technique manipulation to justify a skewed viewpoint. S Ritchie in his games says it best "Play Better". Better means skill not flippant disregard for the machine.

    The best part is even when you scoot a machine and change gravity to suit your needs, you still dont win the game or tournament everytime, the ball still drains overcompensating for bad calls or ball handling on players part.

    If u want to change gravity of the ball position on the field other than with flippers or slight nudging that doesn't affect a properly set tilt bob go enter the matrix movie. In the end you would still be playing the game and it would never end. Boring.

    #718 8 months ago
    Quoted from pballjunkie:

    If you have to ask a morally ambiguous question like this and poll for support of your cause then obviously no matter what people say, you still have your opinion. And that's what it is. If you learned better ball control you would not be in this multiple page argument mess of technique manipulation to justify a skewed viewpoint. S Ritchie in his games says it best "Play Better". Better means skill not flippant disregard for the machine.
    The best part is even when you scoot a machine and change gravity to suit your needs, you still dont win the game or tournament everytime, the ball still drains overcompensating for bad calls or ball handling on players part.
    If u want to change gravity of the ball position on the field other than with flippers or slight nudging that doesn't affect a properly set tilt bob go enter the matrix movie. In the end you would still be playing the game and it would never end. Boring.

    I agree

    Boring, just another reason I went "yes"

    #719 8 months ago
    Quoted from razorsedge:

    I used to wonder why so many people whom are into playing pinball, aren't interested when it comes to getting involved with "tournaments".

    How many people play golf but don't enter tournaments, how many people go fishing but don't enter competitions?

    The thing I have learned over the years is that people play pinball (and any other hobby you care to mention) for all kinds of different reasons, the vast majority are not interested in competition for any number of reasons.

    I suspect for a fair few it is that they don't want to be embarrassed finishing low down when faced with better skilled players, others could be that they don't want to commit the time, the reasons are numerous.

    If people don't want to compete that's their choice, as long as they enjoy playing, for whatever reason, then good for them. I have had people say they won't compete because of other competitors foul language, comps are held in bars, they're held on a Sunday, people slap the machine too violently, others take it too serious, the list goes on. However, I have NEVER heard of anyone saying they won't compete because of people sliding a machine.

    #720 8 months ago
    Quoted from WJxxxx:

    However, I have NEVER heard of anyone saying they won't compete because of people sliding a machine.

    How about “I won’t compete because that guy won’t stfu about slide saves”
    Probly explains the poor attendance.
    But in all reality, this is just a troll thread by the OP at this point.
    Sorry for feeding, I won’t anymore.

    #721 8 months ago
    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    Fair enough. We'll now institute a new rule. Anyone with the handle arcademojo seen slide saving will receive an automatic 0 on the game. I'll go ahead and add that now.

    I'm a relatively new TD, only holding 82 IFPA registered events in the last 3 years or so. I've spoke to tons of random bar patrons that walk in during events along with every new person that either joined, or considered joining our league.
    Not once in those 3 years and 82 events have I ever heard someone say...."I would join, but I saw that guy cheating the game by moving it around".
    As for your bullshit "cheating the game", I guess Sammy Sosa was just "cheating the game" when he was caught with a corked bat.
    You can drop the play on words because everyone sees through your shit.

    Actually there have been a few people mention to me about some of the players sliding the game to save the ball not being right. And one person that has played in your tournaments. Do you really think new people are going to complain to you (the person that runs the league) heck I didn’t even complain when I first joined the league. And you know how much I like to complain.
    Here is a question for you. Does it show in the video you play at orientation about sliding the game being a legal move. Also have you stated it in your speech?

    #722 8 months ago
    Quoted from razorsedge:

    Well, I can't think of any sports where moving the goal posts or changing the boundaries/setup/conditions of the arena during a match is considered legitimate.
    Messing with these conditions is simply not in the spirit of the game to me, besides any of the other concerns around it.
    It is only the demographic here in this "thread" where a majority seem to say it is legitimate. Cyberspace... Stark contrast to the physical world so it turns out. Who would have thunk it Lol
    The layman seems to agree wholeheartedly that it is not in the spirit of the game, only the more "competitive" side seems to have a fettish with wanting to slide games about. Says it all why people avoid "competetive" pinball, but yet flock to "meets".
    I guess it is to be expected that "competitive" players would rush in here more than anyone else to defend their beliefs. Those not interested in competitive pinball have no reason to face the abuse, or even bother polling. As I have said before I kind of expected more like 10% given the kind of players that would be most interested in sliding in here to the poll. So to see over 30% say it is cheating the game, is way more than I ever expected.
    I'll just stick with recreational fun meets. Easy

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    #723 8 months ago
    Quoted from arcademojo:

    Actually there have been a few people mention to me about some of the players sliding the game to save the ball not being right. And one person that has played in your tournaments. Do you really think new people are going to complain to you (the person that runs the league) heck I didn’t even complain when I first joined the league. And you know how much I like to complain.
    Here is a question for you. Does it show in the video you play at orientation about sliding the game being a legal move. Also have you stated it in your speech?

    The video I show before leagues addresses all the moves that are illegal, not moves that are legal.

    As for not expressing their concern to me, that's their own prerogative. If I have an issue with the way something is run, I'd be discussing my concerns with the person running it. I wouldn't be in the corner complaining behind their back.

    #724 8 months ago

    I had no idea that the flippers were “goal posts”, I’ve been playing pinball wrong all these years.

    #725 8 months ago
    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    The video I show before leagues addresses all the moves that are illegal, not moves that are legal.
    As for not expressing their concern to me, that's their own prerogative. If I have an issue with the way something is run, I'd be discussing my concerns with the person running it. I wouldn't be in the corner complaining behind their back.

    Then maybe you should make sure to mention some things like these in orientation. I’ve been playing for 45 years and had to ask at league of it was legal. Same way with slapping the side of a cab. To anyone off the street or that never played in a league before would probably think it was illegal.
    Also of you followed the Friday night pinball chat that you are a member of. There is a statement in there about people sliding games during a tournament. Not behind your back at all. PS. Wasn’t me. LOL

    #726 8 months ago
    Quoted from razorsedge:

    Well, I can't think of any sports where moving the goal posts or changing the boundaries/setup/conditions of the arena during a match is considered legitimate.

    Olympic sport. Next argument.

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    #727 8 months ago
    Quoted from arcademojo:

    Then maybe you should make sure to mention some things like these in orientation. I’ve been playing for 45 years and had to ask at league of it was legal. Same way with slapping the side of a cab. To anyone off the street or that never played in a league before would probably think it was illegal.
    Also of you followed the Friday night pinball chat that you are a member of. There is a statement in there about people sliding games during a tournament. Not behind your back at all. PS. Wasn’t me. LOL

    I had a very extensive response to your post written, but deleted it prior to posting. I feel this is a conversation better had offline.

    If you would like to discuss this further, please contact me though either the website "Contact Us" submission form, or through the official league email to voice your complaints.

    #728 8 months ago
    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    I had a very extensive response to your post written, but deleted it prior to posting. I feel this is a conversation better had offline.
    If you would like to discuss this further, please contact me though either the website "Contact Us" submission form, or through the official league email to voice your complaints.

    You know I don’t use email. an extensive response???
    That’s it!!! <—throws hat in the ground. If you don’t see me at orientation that’s means I’m NOT coming!..............
    I’ll be there the first week though. Never make orientation. Gotta save my pinball money for parts.

    #729 8 months ago

    I personally believe slide saving is and has always been a part of pinball and is part of the original intent by designers the same way that nudging is in my opinion. Both of these actions “move the goal posts”. If you nudge the game you are essentially moving the game as well. I mean the feet are smooth surfaces made of metal and promote sliding. I feel if it wasn’t the intent then we would have seen rubberized surfaces from the manufacturers preventing slide slaves.

    Now let me define what I mean by slide saving.

    I’m not talking about manhandling the game quickly and shoving it 6+” to one side with brute force and receiving a tilt warning but debounce prevents the full tilt from happening.

    What I am saying is slowly moving the front of the game using your strength in a slow smooth methodical way (gentle if you will) as to not upset the tilt bob causing a tilt. I learned how to slide the game this way so that straight down the middle balls could be hit with the tip of the flipper. I learned this when I was 10 years old and I promise you the stresses of doing this would never harm a game.

    There is a distinct difference to the above slides. So what should be allowed? Doesn’t really matter to me as I am not a competitive player and just enjoy pinball.

    #730 8 months ago
    Quoted from Pinballlew:

    I personally believe slide saving is and has always been a part of pinball and is part of the original intent by designers the same way that nudging is in my opinion. Both of these actions “move the goal posts”. If you nudge the game you are essentially moving the game as well. I mean the feet are smooth surfaces made of metal and promote sliding. I feel if it wasn’t the intent then we would have seen rubberized surfaces from the manufacturers preventing slide slaves.
    Now let me define what I mean by slide saving.
    I’m not talking about manhandling the game quickly and shoving it 6+” to one side with brute force and receiving a tilt warning but debounce prevents the full tilt from happening.
    What I am saying is slowly moving the front of the game using your strength in a slow smooth methodical way (gentle if you will) as to not upset the tilt bob causing a tilt. I learned how to slide the game this way so that straight down the middle balls could be hit with the tip of the flipper. I learned this when I was 10 years old and I promise you the stresses of doing this would never harm a game.
    There is a distinct difference to the above slides. So what should be allowed? Doesn’t really matter to me as I am not a competitive player and just enjoy pinball.

    I’ll agree with most of your statement except for the part of always being a part of pinball. You simply couldn’t slide save a game that didn’t have tilt warnings. They would tilt on anything more then a nudge. Your closes thing was a strong slap save.

    #731 8 months ago
    Quoted from arcademojo:

    I’ll agree with most of your statement except for the part of always being a part of pinball. You simply couldn’t slide save a game that didn’t have tilt warnings. They would tilt on anything more then a nudge. Your closes thing was a strong slap save.

    1980 Bally frontier is where I learned to slide save with fairly tight tilts. No warnings on that game and if done incorrectly resulted in a tilt.

    #732 8 months ago
    Quoted from Pinballlew:

    1980 Bally frontier is where I learned to slide save with fairly tight tilts. No warnings on that game and if done incorrectly resulted in a tilt.

    Same thing with my Williams Space Odyssey ca. 1976, so we are talking at least 43 years now in reference to always part of pinball.
    That's a pretty damn long time.

    #733 8 months ago

    I think the answer is just more complicated than 'Yes' or 'No' to "is this cheating?"

    Depending on how and where it's done, it can damage surrounding walls, machines, other items and it can be bad for a pin. For those reasons I tend to say it's rude in many settings. It's certainly not on the same level as say drilling a hole in the side of a cabinet to manipulate items on the PF, which I think we can all agree falls into "cheating"

    I personally (and this is definitely only 1 persons opinion) believe you shouldn't be able to slide save, but the solution to prevent this is setting the tilt, not calling it "cheating". I feel the same way about nudging. I think some people have a tendency to nudge more than one should be allowed to... so I set the plum bob a bit more sensitive.

    #734 8 months ago

    It apparently is much more complicated. Think of the arguments in tournament play if it were illegal. Was it intentional or accidental? He cheated! the foot moved! No it didn’t. Yes it did! Now we need instant replays on judging challenges. Where does it end? That’s why the bob has to be the judge.
    If it wasn’t the design intent... don’t you think that by now the designers would have slide sensors on the machine? The technology has been around for decades?

    10
    #735 8 months ago

    Every day that I see this thread get bumped, I'm going to slide save a location game.

    #736 8 months ago
    Quoted from Pinballlew:

    What I am saying is slowly moving the front of the game using your strength in a slow smooth methodical way (gentle if you will) as to not upset the tilt bob causing a tilt. I learned how to slide the game this way so that straight down the middle balls could be hit with the tip of the flipper. I learned this when I was 10 years old and I promise you the stresses of doing this would never harm a game.

    FINALLY !
    now we need some video that will help teach 'everybody' who doesnt 'comprehend' just how to slide a pinball machine in a safe and constructive manner.

    #737 8 months ago
    Quoted from Pinballlew:

    1980 Bally frontier is where I learned to slide save with fairly tight tilts. No warnings on that game and if done incorrectly resulted in a tilt.

    Quoted from Humph:

    Same thing with my Williams Space Odyssey ca. 1976, so we are talking at least 43 years now in reference to always part of pinball.
    That's a pretty damn long time.

    Ok, ok, Yeah I used to consider it a slide save on older games myself. Compared to what I see going on now I only consider it a juggling the tilt trough strong nudging. But I'll say I stand corrected. You could slide save a game without tilt warning to a small extent.

    #738 8 months ago

    Dang if only there was some sort of....mechanism in pinball that could determine if you have moved the machine too much and it would then forcibly end your ball! Maybe someday...

    #739 8 months ago

    0214A096-2A32-47E6-86DB-F263995D5B4F.gif
    Even Homer is sliding.
    That cheater!!!

    #740 8 months ago
    Quoted from Pinballlew:

    I personally believe slide saving is and has always been a part of pinball and is part of the original intent by designers the same way that nudging is in my opinion. Both of these actions “move the goal posts”. If you nudge the game you are essentially moving the game as well. I mean the feet are smooth surfaces made of metal and promote sliding. I feel if it wasn’t the intent then we would have seen rubberized surfaces from the manufacturers preventing slide slaves.
    Now let me define what I mean by slide saving.
    I’m not talking about manhandling the game quickly and shoving it 6+” to one side with brute force and receiving a tilt warning but debounce prevents the full tilt from happening.
    What I am saying is slowly moving the front of the game using your strength in a slow smooth methodical way (gentle if you will) as to not upset the tilt bob causing a tilt. I learned how to slide the game this way so that straight down the middle balls could be hit with the tip of the flipper. I learned this when I was 10 years old and I promise you the stresses of doing this would never harm a game.
    There is a distinct difference to the above slides. So what should be allowed? Doesn’t really matter to me as I am not a competitive player and just enjoy pinball.

    Seems pretty fair to me!

    It is the >6" slide attempts that we have issue with. A "Small" slide or movement that comes within the tolerance, is not penalised.

    I do regret that I did not word the question so that it could not be deliberately misconstrued by some people, or misunderstood, as it has been.

    Looks like we're going back to just enjoying pinball too

    Thanks for contributing!

    #741 8 months ago

    Well... now you’re starting to sound reasonable. I agree with you for the first time. thumbs up. I think most would agree that >6” slide saves could be seen as abusive in some cases, but I also believe that >6” slide saves would result in a tilt or knock the feet off of the “coasters” or “pedestals”resulting in a DQ. Either way it’s covered in the rules.

    #742 8 months ago

    Getting into my league too. As I've said my machines are on carpet so you aren't pulling them more than an inch or two. i have seen players do the massive 1 foot slides on vinyl floors in comps and it makes me wince. Not something i'd do on anyones machine.

    My mates rib me enough for my small slides.

    #743 8 months ago
    Quoted from punkin:

    Olympic sport. Next argument.[quoted image]

    That's a "curly" one! Lol

    Seems to be in the spirit of that game. Good pickup!

    #744 8 months ago

    I’ve reflected a little (after a whiskey or two) on all the lively banter in this thread over the last 10 days & think the following is true –

    1) Silde Saves (SS) are generally considered O.K. & part of pinball skill as per poll results and thread comments, but ~1/3 of poll opinions are against, also valid & also significant.

    2) Tourney play can allow SS or not as per IFPA/PAPA rules (but usually not Death Saves or Bang Backs), TD decides. Private owners/leagues dictate their own rules and should always be respected.

    3) SS should be limited in movement (6” or less ?), notwithstanding tilt bob or other mech detection, but such mechs should be set properly.

    4) SS damage to pins is unlikely, but may result depending on SS extent and/or floor/feet conditions.

    5) No SS is acceptable if a pin is moved into another, a wall, object, person (seen that happen), etc.

    6) SS cheating the game/not in spirit of game ? – a touchy one, but I would venture to say “no”, as designers/manufacturers could have addressed this decades ago with innovative tilt mechs to counteract a SS.

    No doubt I have missed something(s), but too many ideas & comments here - these seem to be the most common ones.

    I commend the OP for his comments, whether I agree with them or not, as he has responded to almost everyone else’s, retracted/modified some of his own comments, and defended his views thoroughly and explicitly over the current 743 posts. I wouldn’t have the energy for that, so OP has my respect and adds to the progression of this passion we call pinball.

    I sincerely apologize for some of my comments/postings that may have offended some (especially OP) as some of them may not be in the spirit of debate.

    #745 8 months ago
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    #746 8 months ago

    That shit's getting old.

    #747 8 months ago

    Nearly as old as pinball itself.

    #748 8 months ago
    Quoted from punkin:

    That shit's getting old.

    So is this thread.....

    #749 8 months ago

    Gonna slide save the shit out of Ghostbusters premium at league tonight. Hope it can handle more than six inches.

    #750 8 months ago
    Quoted from yancy:

    Hope it can handle more than six inches.

    I’m not sure but MORE then 6” seems like a lot.

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