I am not asking if it is "cheating", that is up to personal views, and what rules people might make Based on their views.

I asked what other people thought. If they think sliding is cheating the game, or if it is in the spirit of the game.

I am sorry the question seems to be confusing for some people, or that they don't see there is a difference.

I've tried to clarify, but some are still on a different page.

About Pinball, not about people! .... some are missing this point, and so getting their knickers all in a knot, telling people they are wrong and must change their beliefs.

Not going to change my view on pinball. Not sorry.

Opinion Lol

30%

Don't have to take it personal mate.

Now you're just being silly

Keep going though...

The poll questions have never changed. You can not change a poll question. The title did not reflect the question too well, as was pointed out.

Yes I did screw up the title to start with. Sorry I'm new to getting around pinside.

Maybe more reading of the thread will help?

Or, if some people still can't comprehend, perhaps I should just start again with clearer wording

Either way I'm glad I came along and created the topic. Very interesting, and informative!

I would say since flipperless pinball originated as a nudging only game, nudging is meant to be part of pinball as far as I can tell. But I just do not see that sliding the machine about was ever in the intention of pinball, the same way that lifting the front of the game renders the challenge meaningless.

I can respect other peoples opinion about sliding being fun and legitimate, for them... or even that nudging should not be done at all, at the opposite end of the scale

I can not accept extreme statements like "sliding will not damage your machine" ... this is false. Fact is I have seen it happen, severely. It seems like some people have never experienced the adverse flooring conditions that can be experienced by pinball machines?.

Slides Certainly Can severely damage your machine. Fact. But, not in all conditions of course, and not all instances. People may never have seen it happen, does not mean it can not happen. On that part is where I declare some people here are blatantly wrong. By the fact. In conditions they have seen or are familliar with, maybe no damage. But come to our venue with hundreds of square metres of old thin carpet laid on fairly slick concrete.

Put rubber feet or whatever you like on the legs.... when someone "has a go" at a big slide save the machine will actually start to slide a few inches (carpet slides on concrete). But then what happens is the carpet wrinkles up. Now, for anyone familliar with basic physics, you have a couple of hundred pounds of pinball machine In Motion with quite some kinetic energy within the body, so when the leg eventually gets Anchored Up on the wrinkling carpet it comes to a Sudden Halt! ... I'm sorry disbelievers, but it goes Fu@#ing Crunch!. End of story!

There are other surfaces that can have a similar effect.

There is more to the world than your basement you know.

My opinion is perfectly valid thanks

Same with the other 140 odd poll participants. Get over it.

But hey, keep going if you're that passionate about it.

Slide! , I really don't give a crap what you want to do to win at pinball on your own games, but break our machines by breaking the venue rules and things will get very f**k**g hairy for you.

I can not change the poll question but, from what I see in pinsides options for the poll, it looks to me like anyone is free to change their vote.

Well... I guess that's okay? Lol

Please not on the p/f Glass!?

Just be careful not to get your feet hooked up on the s#itty areas of loose carpet or you might break a leg

We get the venue essentially for free, and in most aspects it is awesome! ... but they aren't in a position anytime soon to be replacing 100's of metres of carpet. It is overall in reasonable condition, just fairly thin and not stuck to the underlying floor too well, and can wrinkle up and slip.

"My opinion is perfectly valid thanks

Same with the other 140 odd poll participants."

Wow! look it's a meme about some worked up "no" pollers in here...

Yeah and we all love well placed memes ...

By your own definitions it could well be:

Your opinion is not valid.
Your opinion is not right.

Of course that is only if you are saying Slide Saves are valid under Any and All Circumstances. I'm sure you aren't saying that though?

Opinion is related to philosophy.

Your "guide" is missing a fair bit, excluded.

My opinion is valid, it may be right for me, but not right for some others. But others might certainly share it, just like some might share another view.

Some things are simply down to choice you realise?

It feels like you will not be happy unless I Changed My view. Sorry, I can't help you there...

You can please all of the people some of the time, and you can please some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time.

*you know, that "everyone" and "everything" thing you have goin there...

Dang Nammit... really should I have found or made up a meme for that?

I do

True though, I was being a bit exclusive in previous post, should really be:

"My opinion is perfectly valid thanks

Same with the other 450 plus poll participants."

It's just the agree to disagree bit

This is a great question!

As far as I know PAPA use "pedestal" type system for the feet to sit on? ... to disallow sliding the games I assume?

I don't know how high they are, or how slippery? . If they are too high, or any significant height at all really, then only one leg dropping off might twist/stress the cabinet a bit? ... I don't think pinballs rocking on two legs does the cabinets too much good...

Anyway either way there probably could be some "tollerance"? .... is that 5mm? , 1/2"? , 3"? , 107.5mm? , 2 feet ? Lol .... or anything in between? ... How big are these "discs"?

We put tape on the floor, mark positions. Maybe I won't divulge our tolerance now though ...

*my mum would use centimetres for dressmaking, only place I seen that unit used after primary school. Bringing back memories

4.232 inches is a very specific tolerance! ... even in metric Lol

Now that's dedication!

Which also included the word "cheating", and also which many people took to heart...

But yes, both interesting!

The comment I get from potential new players, overwhelmingly, is "but isn't that cheating"?

They know nothing about tournaments, or "competetive tactics"... but it certainly seems to be offputing to them. But hey, they're just the general public, why should their opinion about it count?

We want as many people to join in as we can.

Nooooo , they perfectly understand Nudging, from their playing casually onsite and history in playing pins "back in the day".... they don't get why it could be okay to "move the goalposts" wherever they like. Majority view here.

I'm not talking these people have never played pinball, they know what nudging is... just don't get "competitive" pinball, the condoning of "cheating the game". Yes, THEY use the word cheating to me! , about Sliding in specific. As far as I have seen here, this is how alot of the "public" see slide saving. Great way to get more people into pinball.

Also looks like the thread is no hidden somehow? ... I guess silenced in some way, too many "sliders" complaining and getting worried more non competitive players might start viewing and sharing their opinion? ... or maybe something else.

Ahhhh, Moved, to "Playing Tips" ???

This topic is Not about Playing tips, it is about how all public and players view Pinball in general, as far as sliding machines being "Cheating the Game". To most people I know it doesn't seem like a legitimate way to play at all.

It will need a link if it doesn't get fixed, or a new topic in "All Pinball" . This topic and poll has absolutely nothing to do with playing "tips". It is about the percepion of cheating the game contributing to putting off so many of the "new player pool" from participating in tournaments.

The topic being Moved is not in line with category titles. Can I have a justification from a moderator please?

Geez again... tilt bobs (on modern games with warnings) can not consistently prevent slide saving, even when they are made so tight you can not nudge reasonably anymore. Unless you take something else away like nudge/tilt Warnings (which get abused by people sliding) the tilt bob isn't going to stop someone TRYING to slide..

Great, take away something most see as a legitimate part of the game (nudging), and substitute it for sliding, which most new players we see say they figured sliding the machine around would be cheating the game.

Pinball Tournaments could have Soooo many more participants if it were not for stuff like this. Here at least. It simply seems to make pinball look bad, not as "fun", and a valid reason for me to lose a bit of interest in "competitive pinball". I am not alone.

Well @chuckwurt, it may lead to a new topic after all, with this type of.... thing ... ?

It's not over yet.