(Topic ID: 251816)

Poll : Is a "slide save" (moving the feet) cheating the game?


By razorsedge

84 days ago



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  • 781 posts
  • 136 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 hours ago by razorsedge
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    Topic poll

    “Poll : Is a "slide save" (moving the feet) cheating the game?”

    • Yes, slide saving is cheating the game. 168 votes
      32%
    • No, slide saving is not cheating the game. 361 votes
      68%

    (529 votes)

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    There are 781 posts in this topic. You are on page 12 of 16.
    #551 79 days ago
    Quoted from Anonymouse:

    Granted it wasn't in a tournament setting but when I was in college my friend worked at a pizza place that had a DE Star Wars with either no tilt bob or one that wasn't working. Was it cheating for me to lift the machine up to bring a ball back into play from the outlanes?

    The person/party you were "cheating" was the operator. But he is allowing the machine to have no tilt bob. So, "cheating" might not be the right word in this case. Are you "taking advantage?" Yes.

    #552 79 days ago

    Play tough or go home.

    #553 79 days ago

    i must say, im having my doubts about this one ...
    but isnt a razors edge supposed to be 'sharp'?

    #554 79 days ago

    I just slid Deadpool a few times, come get me

    #555 79 days ago
    Quoted from bangerjay:

    I just slid Deadpool a few times, come get me

    'Quit shaking the machine.'

    'Don't make me come over there.'

    'Keep shaking the machine, there's candy inside'

    TheSliderLifeChoseMePunkin

    pb5 (resized).jpg
    #556 79 days ago
    Quoted from bangerjay:

    I just slid Deadpool a few times, come get me

    Ha, playing it now & doing same.

    #557 79 days ago
    Quoted from Humph:

    Ha, playing it now & doing same.

    On my way

    #558 79 days ago

    just Curious...if a player is high on blow or pot...is that cheating?

    #559 79 days ago
    Quoted from Bwilson:

    I'm surprised someone hasn't created some kind of silly ass mod that lets them easily slide their pinball machine around the room in a circle while they play it.

    You can use these to slide around the room in a circle!

    https://images.homedepot-static.com/productImages/f1ae38c5-a077-491e-9cf6-cd41e77701d9/svn/shepherd-dollies-9442-a0_1000.jpg

    pasted_image (resized).jpeg
    #560 79 days ago
    Quoted from bangerjay:

    I just slid Deadpool a few times, come get me

    I really don't care, why do you think I should? ... it isn't any of our games! Lol

    Do it how you like!

    #561 79 days ago
    Quoted from bangerjay:

    I just slid Deadpool a few times, come get me

    you should show him your Iron Man Swing. He'd probably shit himself.

    #562 79 days ago
    Quoted from greenhornet:

    i must say, im having my doubts about this one ...
    but isnt a razors edge supposed to be 'sharp'?

    Well, let the thread show... I'm just a bit blunt!?

    #563 79 days ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    you should show him your Iron Man Swing. He'd probably shit himself.

    You got adult diapers over there?!

    #564 79 days ago

    I actually thought that you were just an opinionated noob that would rather kiss their game like a butterfly on a flower then show it who’s boss.

    But after looking at your stats I’m convinced your just a troll.

    Started 1 topic. 298 posts. Moderated twice. Over 400 down votes.
    8C3D65EB-046B-4CA9-9E7D-306301965E9B (resized).png

    Here’s mine for comparison

    C2004D28-4AEC-4FDA-87F7-67DF21158EDF (resized).png
    #565 79 days ago
    Quoted from razorsedge:

    Well, let the thread show... I'm just a bit blunt!?

    Bit dull perhaps

    #566 79 days ago
    Quoted from Bwilson:

    I'm surprised someone hasn't created some kind of silly ass mod that lets them easily slide their pinball machine around the room in a circle while they play it.

    Bangerjay put a whole machine on a turntable, and suspended both a game and player off the floor.

    #567 79 days ago
    Quoted from Faustria:

    Bangerjay put a whole machine on a turntable, and suspended both a game and player off the floor.

    Yeah I seen that on the net somewhere... Looked like alot of fun!

    #568 79 days ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    I actually thought that you were just an opinionated noob that would rather kiss their game like a butterfly on a flower then show it who’s boss.
    But after looking at your stats I’m convinced your just a troll.
    Started 1 topic. 298 posts. Moderated twice. Over 400 down votes.
    [quoted image]
    Here’s mine for comparison[quoted image]

    I'm now convinced of some stuff too. I better not say anything though, in case anyone starts crying...

    #569 79 days ago
    Quoted from Anonymouse:

    Granted it wasn't in a tournament setting but when I was in college my friend worked at a pizza place that had a DE Star Wars with either no tilt bob or one that wasn't working. Was it cheating for me to lift the machine up to bring a ball back into play from the outlanes?

    Um, Yes.

    Would you put the score you achieved by doing that up against anyone else's and claim it to be a legitimate high score?

    I hope not, because the score is not legitimate, regardless of claiming the machine might have been malfunctioning. This is "cheating the game". Well, I think so anyway.

    What an impressive "skill"!

    #571 79 days ago

    Set the Tilt Bob appropriately.
    IF the game allows slide save; it's legal.
    That's what I always tell new players... nudging is encouraged... anything that doesn't result in a tilt is fair game.

    That said; if I see you do it to my machine at a convention; you get booted.

    #572 79 days ago

    It must suck to see all those “illegitimate” GC’s that good players put on your games. You know you can go into the settings and clear those out, right?

    #573 79 days ago
    Quoted from fumbleflippers:

    It must suck to see all those “illegitimate” GC’s that good players put on your games. You know you can go into the settings and clear those out, right?

    All of our GC's are "slide save" free, and "lift the front of the game" free.

    That is the way it is going to stay for us here mate.

    -1
    #574 79 days ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    Set the Tilt Bob appropriately.
    IF the game allows slide save; it's legal.
    That's what I always tell new players... nudging is encouraged... anything that doesn't result in a tilt is fair game.
    That said; if I see you do it to my machine at a convention; you get booted.

    Tight tilt bobs do not stop, prevent, or detect "slide saves", not specifically. Haven't you seen the video? ... it even apparently had "tight tilt settings"?

    The poll isn't about Tilt bob settings, or Nudging, anyway.

    #575 79 days ago
    Quoted from razorsedge:

    The poll isn't about Tilt bob settings, or Nudging, anyway.

    ?

    #576 79 days ago

    I know it’s been mentioned multiple times but It’s up to the owner/operator to set the tilt to their liking. If they have a game set to allow sliding then I would say it’s not cheating. One of my friends has a LE stern and the tilt is set so Liberal he can literally slide his game a foot in either direction to save the ball from draining and not get a single warning. It doesn’t bother me that he does this to his machine because he paid for it and it’s fun watching some of the ball saves he manages. The problem I see with that is he doesn’t have to build up other skills like ball control, post transfers etc, he just flails away and if it’s headed STDM he can usually save it with a slide. He plays my games on location and his ball times are short because he either doesn’t control the ball or he tilts out. For me I prefer to use accuracy/ball control and nudging to keep the ball on play and I have my games set to allow nudging but if you try and slide, it will tilt. I do this to keep my cabinet art and back-box art from getting scuffed up(games are almost touching due to space limitations) and keep ball times reasonable so I can actually break even with routed machines.

    #577 79 days ago

    That's right, it is about : Is "slide saving" in the spirit of the game?

    I don't think too many disagree that lifting the front of the cabinet, so the ball rolls up the playfield, is not in the spirit of the game. It is "cheating the game".

    Obviously, "slide saving" is not quite as clear cut, and there are evidently a variety of opinions. One opinion is no less valid than the other. Play by the rules for wherever you are. If the "house rules" say it is valid, then it is legal. Cheating "the game" is a different question, about Pinball.

    There is a poll so that people can express the way they see things.

    Is there an absolute "winner" in a philosophical debate? ... not generally I don't think, but maybe I guess, if the opinion is 100%-0%... but if it is 100-0, what is the point of the poll? ... and is there an opinion not being voiced, for whatever reason?

    So far 30% or so believe it is not in the spirit of the game. That is not "nobody", and it is not "wrong" either. It is an opinion.

    Keep calm and play Pinball!

    #578 78 days ago
    Quoted from razorsedge:

    Nothing has changed. Maybe you are reading between the lines a bit too much, or not reading enough?. Everyone is perfectly entitled to their opinion, win or lose.

    I’m glad you’ve edited your 1st post. Maybe you’ve learned something this week.

    You went from this

    Quoted from razorsedge:

    It can not be disputed that "slide saves" can often cause excessive (additional) wear and tear or damage to pinball machines. The dispute here is essentially over their Legitimacy.

    To this

    Quoted from razorsedge:

    Obviously, "slide saving" is not quite as clear cut, and there are evidently a variety of opinions. One opinion is no less valid than the other. Play by the rules for wherever you are. If the "house rules" say it is valid, then it is legal

    Thank you for adding This. It makes you seem like less of an ass.

    Quoted from razorsedge:

    ***Not calling Individuals Personally "cheaters". If your rules are there for it then it is not "cheating". . But about Pinball, is "slide saving" cheating The Game, it's intention and spirit. A philosophical discussion and poll.

    #580 78 days ago

    This thing still going...

    #581 78 days ago

    There should have been at least 37 “broken record” moderations to the OP by now.

    #582 78 days ago

    Question?
    If I am playing in one of your tournaments and the foot of the machine moves inadvertently or accidentally, but not on a SDTM save attempt... do I get DQ’d?

    This has happened to me before. I didn’t get DQ’d when the machine scooched on the tile floor from what I would consider a regular force nudge.
    Slide saves are legal so it wasn’t an issue there.

    Has this happed in one of your tournaments? Did you kick them out? Are slide saves illegal or is any movement of the feet at all illegal?
    Does it have to be intentional?

    #583 78 days ago
    Quoted from JimmyJames:

    If I am playing in one of your tournaments and the foot of the machine moves inadvertently or accidentally, but not on a SDTM save attempt... do I get DQ’d?

    The best part aboot any tournament is moving the fucking machine like 4" and only getting 2 tilt warnings. The breaths, the gasps, the loser in the back yelling you're a cheater....that's what make it all worth it.

    #584 78 days ago

    A similar question(s) -

    Would a bounce-back also DQ you in a tournament if this happened all on its own without player intervention ?
    If not a DQ, are you allowed to keep playing the ball or do you have to let it drain ?

    I've had this occur on some pins (not during a tourney, though) where the ball comes screaming down an outlane off a sling or pop bumper & it bounces back into the play area between & above the flippers - no player involvement or help.

    I suppose you could get accused of a bounce-back by a watching tournament competitor.

    #585 78 days ago

    What if I hide a very strong magnet in the cuff of my shirt and slide my wrist along the glass up between the flippers and drag the ball back into play? Do you think this innovative technique would be frowned upon?

    #586 78 days ago
    Quoted from Humph:

    Would a bounce-back also DQ you in a tournament if this happened all on its own without player intervention ?

    No that's a lazarus, happens all the time.
    There's no problem with a ball bouncing back.

    #587 78 days ago

    on my floor you could do a slap save and the game might slide 4". Even if you didn't mean it to. Without rubber feets. Should that person be DQ'd as well? Shit.....let's all go out and get pumpkin pie blizzards.

    #588 78 days ago

    I’m sure someone mentioned this already, but the only thing that would bother me about a big slide save in competition - head to head competition that is - would be having to play my ball, or the rest of the game, on a table that’s now crooked.

    It’s like an OCD thing with me, and I honestly don’t think someone should be forced to compete on a machine that’s been moved like that, unless it can be moved back with no tilt or tilt warnings against the player.

    #589 78 days ago
    Quoted from Humph:

    Would a bounce-back also DQ you in a tournament if this happened all on its own without player intervention ?

    No. This is legit. Even if a fast outlane does a naturally death save, you’re good.

    #590 78 days ago

    Isn't not using coins cheating the game?

    #592 78 days ago
    Quoted from razorsedge:

    Tight tilt bobs do not stop, prevent, or detect "slide saves", not specifically. Haven't you seen the video? ... it even apparently had "tight tilt settings"?
    The poll isn't about Tilt bob settings, or Nudging, anyway.

    Um... wow.
    Gravity, inertia, they are all physical laws that effect the Tilt Bob.
    If you think "slide saves" don't impact the tilt bob; you sir... aren't paying attention; or seem to think Gravity and Inertia are "magic" controlled by a supreme being or something.

    Tilt bobs do detect "slide saves"... not maybe most games don't have them set radically tight to avoid them... but that doesn't mean they won't detect them if set properly.

    If you're going to argue with physics…. then well; you really have no sober business posting this silly thread.

    -6
    #593 78 days ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    Um... wow.
    Gravity, inertia, they are all physical laws that effect the Tilt Bob.
    If you think "slide saves" don't impact the tilt bob; you sir... aren't paying attention; or seem to think Gravity and Inertia are "magic" controlled by a supreme being or something.
    Tilt bobs do detect "slide saves"... not maybe most games don't have them set radically tight to avoid them... but that doesn't mean they won't detect them if set properly.
    If you're going to argue with physics…. then well; you really have no sober business posting this silly thread.

    I never said "sliding wont impact the tilt bob"

    I stated that tilt bobs do not guard against sliding the machine around, when you have tilt warnings. A tilt bob is not for penalising slide saves (it does not work effectively for that evidently), it is for penalising excessive and repetitive nudging.

    Where does the odd theory come from that tilt bobs will prevent (or can always tilt) slide saves on modern machines? ... all of the evidence shows they do not. I believe that is because it is not what they were intended for.

    Plenty are not paying attention, and/or twisting things around to suit their viewpoint. That is for sure. Lol

    Congo was tight, didn't prevent that. Case in point.

    It doesn't really matter anyway, it's off topic whatever the conclusion.

    The question is meant to be more like... Is moving the goalposts by sliding the game, several inches, in the spirit of the game?

    Just seems that alot of people are misunderstanding the poll question entirely. It appears that some get it, and some simply do not.

    #594 78 days ago

    This is the worst thread.
    I ever read.

    -2
    #595 78 days ago
    Quoted from DirtyDeeds:

    This is the worst thread.
    I ever read.

    That is easy, don't have to read it then.

    Or do some downvoting, or however this place works. Each to their own.

    I think it is very interesting to hear what "everyone" thinks.

    I guess plenty of people here want the minority silenced.

    #596 78 days ago

    I know that but thanks.

    #597 78 days ago
    Quoted from razorsedge:

    Plenty are not paying attention, and/or twisting things around to suit their viewpoint. That is for sure. Lol
    Congo was tight, didn't prevent that. Case in point.
    It doesn't really matter anyway, it's off topic whatever the conclusion.

    It's not off topic. Simply put the game operates just fine depending on how you set the tilt bob.
    And a "modern machine" probably has a setting somewhere for 0 warnings.

    You asked if it's cheating - overwhelmingly the poll indicates it isn't.
    What you're doing is now trolling your own thread because YOU think it's cheating and we don't agree with you.
    Sounds like a thread about free parking to me...

    Best of luck making your case to people who obviously don't agree with your narrow minded view.

    #598 78 days ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    I actually thought that you were just an opinionated noob that would rather kiss their game like a butterfly on a flower then show it who’s boss.
    But after looking at your stats I’m convinced your just a troll.
    Started 1 topic. 298 posts. Moderated twice. Over 400 down votes.
    [quoted image]
    Here’s mine for comparison[quoted image]

    Mine was over 90% before I started this topic. Just goes to show, don't bring up any sensitive subjects, or a minority view.... or pay the price! Lol

    I don't really care about "downvote" stats, considering...

    I'm happy to speak up for those whom won't for fear of being downvoted to oblivion and other things.

    #599 78 days ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    It's not off topic. Simply put the game operates just fine depending on how you set the tilt bob.
    And a "modern machine" probably has a setting somewhere for 0 warnings.
    You asked if it's cheating - overwhelmingly the poll indicates it isn't.
    What you're doing is now trolling your own thread because YOU think it's cheating and we don't agree with you.
    Sounds like a thread about free parking to me...
    Best of luck making your case to people who obviously don't agree with your narrow minded view.

    Yeah I call moving the goalposts in this way (sliding the machine) cheating the game. It is as simple as that. That aint changing mate. It is my opinion. I do not have to conform to your opinion. Plenty of others have the same view as me, and anyone can have either or both views. You'll have to accept that people may not change their view to suit your beliefs. Move on!

    #600 78 days ago

    Where is the border between sliding, and relocating?

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