(Topic ID: 251816)

Poll : Is a "slide save" (moving the feet) cheating the game?


By razorsedge

54 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 769 posts
  • 134 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 35 days ago by cdnpinbacon
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic poll

    “Poll : Is a "slide save" (moving the feet) cheating the game?”

    • Yes, slide saving is cheating the game. 161 votes
      31%
    • No, slide saving is not cheating the game. 353 votes
      69%

    (514 votes)

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 61 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    7DBDD358-2EAE-45C1-820F-4230E444496E (resized).jpeg
    20191001_205709 (resized).jpg
    20191001_205544 (resized).jpg
    6C765CB7-45B1-4885-9881-BCD4B1FB5C6C (resized).jpeg
    0214A096-2A32-47E6-86DB-F263995D5B4F.gif
    tenor (resized).png
    Dumpster Fire (resized).png
    64DED9EB-68EB-496D-8684-7ABF0A70B25C (resized).jpeg
    2A8723FF-7DDD-4918-88A9-BA5EDBD03BE2 (resized).jpeg
    A170967F-B2F9-414B-B0A2-401E34E8E45D (resized).jpeg
    spiritofpinball04 (resized).jpg
    545A7445-BDEC-4D38-BD1D-C25D83004412 (resized).jpeg
    Black Knight battle (resized).jpg
    9D14DD23-1147-48F2-892C-996DD7CD3B36 (resized).jpeg
    image (resized).jpg
    1ACC9D91-DCA2-4403-BB98-9A69906E2507 (resized).jpeg

    There are 769 posts in this topic. You are on page 10 of 16.
    #451 50 days ago

    Would it be considered cheating if a big earthquake hit as the ball was about to drain, and the machine slid to the side and the ball was saved?

    Probably not on my games, as I have the anti cheat devices set pretty tight so it would probably tilt.

    #452 50 days ago

    That would be considered an act of god (vid)

    #453 50 days ago
    Quoted from razorsedge:

    How often in a tournament does the machine belong to the actual player?

    99% of the time. Tournaments arn't ususally held on route. It's always privately owned collections and games.

    #454 49 days ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    Tournaments arn't ususally held on route.

    This maybe used to be the case. But now, I’d say 90% of tournaments are on location.

    #455 49 days ago

    Slide Save - if it's not been mentioned - the JJP book on POTC actually recommends sliding to save the ball from the left middle outlane.
    Maybe not a full slide - but definitely in the realm. ; )

    #456 49 days ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    This maybe used to be the case. But now, I’d say 90% of tournaments are on location.

    not around here. Most are held by people with private collections. Same with leagues.

    #457 49 days ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    99% of the time. Tournaments arn't ususally held on route. It's always privately owned collections and games.

    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    This maybe used to be the case. But now, I’d say 90% of tournaments are on location.

    Don't get too into the weeds with this stuff. Leagues/tournies are diff'ernt all over.
    Location, location with the router in the tournament, home locations, in a barn....etc. All sorts of places involved.

    10
    #458 49 days ago

    This thread is still going?

    #459 49 days ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    This thread is still going?

    Well you're the mod that's been letting this JO keep trolling everyday

    -1
    #460 49 days ago

    I'm not sure what would define cheating in pinball. I'm honestly having trouble coming up with a reasonable method for a live, in-person tournament. Maybe using a magnet to move the ball around the playfield? In a selfie tournament, death saves are considered cheating because it's against the rules... but they're not cheating if I'm just playing for fun. cheating would be breaking the rules to gain an advantage. If slide-saves are not against the rules, then doing them is not cheating, it's that simple. It's not a matter of one's opinion, it's a matter of pre-determined rules. If OP wants to make a rule against slide-saves there's nothing to stop him, and his tournaments can still be IFPA eligible.

    If someone doesn't "think it's right" to slide save, because it might cause damage, does that person also wear cloth gloves when they play? It's well-documented that fingers can wear out paint and decals near the flipper buttons.

    As your "friend" put it to you in a "tournament setting," he won't slide save because he doesn't do it on principle (viewing it as cheating). Well, now it's cheating to hit the ball hard in tennis because I have a friend who won't do it on principle (he thinks it's too strenuous to swing hard).

    #461 49 days ago

    I remember the first time I saw someone manage a multiball by cradling 2 balls while shooting the 3rd. My first reaction was “hey, can he do that?”. I had only ever seen people flailing at balls during a multiball, and cradling seemed “wrong” to me. Needless to say, I cradle my balls all the time now and I think it’s an essential skill.

    I hope to learn to slide save, because that too is an essential skill. If you’re on ball 3 on a DMD and you know the bonus won’t get you there, what the hell do you have to lose? I wouldn’t do it on older games because I’d be afraid to tilt through.

    #462 49 days ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Well you're the mod that's been letting this JO keep trolling everyday

    Cheaper than a HBO subscription!

    #463 49 days ago

    I keep checking back on this thread to see if maybe someone will invent a device that would allow you to control how much a machine can be manipulated during gameplay. You could make a fortune with it in Australia!

    #464 49 days ago
    CF9F55B9-97B9-491A-B424-89541957EA61 (resized).jpeg
    #466 49 days ago
    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    Wow - that was fast!!

    Lol...I posted that without reading your previous post. Lol!

    #467 49 days ago
    Quoted from Blitzburgh99:

    Lol...I posted that without reading your previous post. Lol!

    I was going to say... somebody on here way faster than me!

    #468 49 days ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    not around here. Most are held by people with private collections. Same with leagues.

    Interesting. I’d say every tournament with the exception of like maybe 5 out of hundreds in the states of IN KY and OH are on location.

    And in 100% of them slide saves were legal. Haha

    #469 49 days ago

    The only point worth discussing here is whether slide saves prevent collectors from offering up their games for competition. I’ve donated countless newer games to tournaments, and this never even crossed my mind. I’m more worried about whether the game is 100% and is going to be good for the tournament. If someone holds back a creampuff pin because they’re worried someone will hurt it, you’re better off as the TD going to someone else. IMHO.

    #470 49 days ago

    Is Telekinesis cheating? I do it allot. I mostly never works.

    #471 49 days ago
    205271DD-CB3C-426C-B70A-4C47A7D7717E (resized).jpeg
    #472 49 days ago

    I used to race cars. But I thought it was cheating to redline the engine; it’s just too easy to break things if you redline. I know it’s in the rules to do it, but NOT IN MY CAR. No way. That might lower the resale value. So, anyways. I discovered that if I wasn’t willing to push it to the limit, then I wasn’t going to win. I tried to get the other drivers to stop redlining their cars. But they wouldn’t listen to me, they just kept winning.

    Makes total sense

    #473 49 days ago

    Sometimes I say Fuck while I’m playing and then I feel bad.

    #474 49 days ago

    Boy, that's a lot of pages for this subject. OP seems to keep fanning the flames. Oh well.

    If you can get away with something without tilting, it's not cheating. If you tilt, well, that's what tilt is designed for.

    Is it "abuse?" Well, if you're overly violent and smashing the machine against something, yes. Calm down.

    But "cheating"? Really?

    #475 49 days ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    The only point worth discussing here is whether slide saves prevent collectors from offering up their games for competition. I’ve donated countless newer games to tournaments, and this never even crossed my mind. I’m more worried about whether the game is 100% and is going to be good for the tournament. If someone holds back a creampuff pin because they’re worried someone will hurt it, you’re better off as the TD going to someone else. IMHO.

    I'll bite. I'm in the excessive slide saves should be illegal club. As I've stated before a slide save should not be more then an inch or two. We have used my place for over a dozen or so unsanctioned tournaments. Following same rules as league. And yes people slide my games. I do too. But my games are tight in the line up so you can only move so far before heads hit. (Which has happened once) I don't think sliding a game is going to cause damage to the cab joints but do know in a tight lineup you can damage the head. And like yourself I worry more about my games playing in top shape. Same way when I take my games to shows. Every single year one or more of my games have been used for tournaments by the show. I could care less about the games being slide or shaken roughly while playing. But I will still say when your sliding a game 6,8,10 inches across the floor this should be a DQ.

    #476 49 days ago
    Quoted from arcademojo:

    But I will still say when your sliding a game 6,8,10 inches across the floor this should be a DQ.

    If I can do this skillfully enough not to tilt, I deserve to keep playing out that ball. Assuming there are no rules against the maneuver.
    (EDIT: I don’t think I’ve ever slid a game more than 2”, but this is a skill I want to learn for Pinburgh)

    #477 49 days ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    I don’t think I’ve ever slid a game more than 2”, but this is a skill I want to learn for Pinburgh

    The tilts are tight enough that it’s virtually impossible. And they have rubber feet on the machines.

    I don’t think I’ve seen a slide save in five years of playing in that tournament.

    That’s not to say that it isn’t a valuable skill.

    #478 49 days ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    If I can do this skillfully enough not to tilt, I deserve to keep playing out that ball. Assuming there are no rules against the maneuver.
    (EDIT: I don’t think I’ve ever slid a game more than 2”, but this is a skill I want to learn for Pinburgh)

    I'll rearrange it for you.
    "If you can slide a game within a two inch margin skillfully enough not to tilt, I deserve to keep playing out that ball."
    That I can agree with 100%. It's when players go out of this zone or across a foul line that should be a penalty. Just like many other games or sports. There should be a perimeter or foul line. But I'm just as guilty with shoving games across the line to save a ball. If it's others are doing it so will I. Doesn't change my belief that it should be penalized though.

    #479 49 days ago
    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    The tilts are tight enough that it’s virtually impossible. And they have rubber feet on the machines.
    I don’t think I’ve seen a slide save in five years of playing in that tournament.
    That’s not to say that it isn’t a valuable skill.

    So you're saying Pinburgh agrees that it is legal but makes the games so you can't do it.
    Hmm, sounds to me like they are against slide saves also. Which is kind of funny because even though I'm vocally against slide saves I put carpet sliders on my games to make it easier to do a slide save. LOL

    #480 49 days ago
    Quoted from scottslash:

    Boy, that's a lot of pages for this subject. OP seems to keep fanning the flames. Oh well.
    If you can get away with something without tilting, it's not cheating. If you tilt, well, that's what tilt is designed for.
    Is it "abuse?" Well, if you're overly violent and smashing the machine against something, yes. Calm down.
    But "cheating"? Really?

    Granted it wasn't in a tournament setting but when I was in college my friend worked at a pizza place that had a DE Star Wars with either no tilt bob or one that wasn't working. Was it cheating for me to lift the machine up to bring a ball back into play from the outlanes?

    #481 49 days ago

    Good chance our OP has some odds running with his mates on how many views or posts he can get.....

    #482 49 days ago

    Got a little winded reading the 481 posts on this thread, but since this is a poll by the OP to gather opinion here, I took 10 minutes to show some of the stats:

    Total posts = 481
    Posts by OP = 122

    OP Down votes = 279
    OP Up votes = 10
    OP No votes (or downvotes canceling out upvotes) = 73

    Opinion seems pretty clear based on the above and not much of a minority speaking out in the form of OP upvotes – consensus is a resounding “No” - slide saves are not cheating.

    I for one have slide saved for 45+ years and have never considered it cheating nor has my pinball group, although I will always ask/bow to the party that owns the machines if it’s O.K. It is a developed skill to perform a slide save without tilting and enhances gameplay, IMO. None of my pins have shown any signs of stress due to slide saves (Crikes, most are built like Panzer tanks), but I do tighten the leg bolts every now and then – part of maintenance.

    I prefer the slap-slide save where a nudge isn’t enough and this has saved countless balls. Sometimes the feet can move an inch or two, sometimes not. If on a smooth floor, I usually move the machine forward a few inches to get the feet out of any ‘groove’ or sticky areas so slides can be better performed and this stresses the machine less.

    IFPA allows slide saves, so I will play within that ruleset - if the owner disallows this, I will not slide save.
    Fun for me either way.

    #483 49 days ago

    We used to kick the coin door on a cyclone in a pizza joint to get free credits. We learned it from the shop owner. Is that cheating if he did it first? Would never do it as an adult and I feel bad about it now. I hope the game can forgive me for cheating it.

    #484 49 days ago
    Quoted from arcademojo:

    So you're saying Pinburgh agrees that it is legal but makes the games so you can't do it.
    Hmm, sounds to me like they are against slide saves also. Which is kind of funny because even though I'm vocally against slide saves I put carpet sliders on my games to make it easier to do a slide save. LOL

    Pinburgh wants the games to not last forever. They also remove rubbers from post to make shorter games. Not because they think the ball bouncing off the rubber should be illegal.

    #485 49 days ago
    Quoted from greenhornet:

    dont come to vegas and slide save our games.
    we dont want that kind of behavior at the PHOF.[quoted image]

    It's ok -- laughing or having fun is also not welcomed at the PHOF

    #486 49 days ago

    had a beautiful - downright elegant - slide save on a metallica pro tonight at league that helped me get into a second crank it up on one ball.

    poured one out for the OP after that one. jah bless

    #487 49 days ago

    Forgot to add the poll results thus far -

    No, not cheating = 277
    Yes, cheating = 123

    Still a resounding "No" by over 2 to 1 margin.

    #488 49 days ago

    Can I slide my machine to work on the one next to it(b/c this ass ain’t getting any smaller)

    #489 49 days ago

    Aaaaannnndd ..... not going to prevent a slide! ...

    Don't comprehend the topic, that's fine I guess.

    #490 49 days ago
    Quoted from bangerjay:

    (b/c this ass ain’t getting any smaller)

    We're not complaining.

    -4
    #491 49 days ago
    Quoted from Humph:

    Forgot to add the poll results thus far -
    No, not cheating = 277
    Yes, cheating = 123
    Still a resounding "No" by over 2 to 1 margin.

    Yet still not a landslide by any stretch hey. 120+ people's opinion doesn't matter at all to some though, by the looks.

    Seems some in here will only be happy when everyone not agreeing with them has been "converted"... or made to "see it their way". Agree.

    We are entitled to our beliefs the same as everyone else in here is.

    I got no problem with people choosing to play the game in a way plenty of their opponents evidently view as cheating the game, they just won't be doing it on our machines. No mater how much they try to "re-educate" us into adopting their "correct" way of thinking.

    What I used to think about the pinball scene has changed a bit since starting this thread. I still view sliding the same way though, cheating the game.

    Like as if there is a winner. Ha haha

    It is a forum for sharing and discussing views. Not about converting the whole of a minority of thread polstersting (or majority of our actual players) into adopting something they believe is cheating.

    Great method for enticing more everyday people (whom here at least seem to see sliding as cheating, and don't agree with it) to come along and enjoy pinball!

    "Only cheaters need apply" ... is the message coming from alot of pinsiders in cyberspace....

    Pretty dissapointing on the whole really... for growing pinball here.

    Whatever way, do what you want, and we'll do what we want. Different worlds in different states, if some thread posts are anything to go by.

    Inability to accept other peoples view isn't going to make all those people go away, or no longer exist.

    Still havent heard anything close to a valid argument (for myself) to change to a view that sliding a machine is an honnest move in pinball. Lots of hot air and flustered buckled up folks though....

    Me, I'm quite content with my view, thanks

    Interesting to read what others believe, cheaper than netflix too, as someone else suggested. I need some more popcorn!

    Also if Hump can only find 10 of my upvotes, certainly not viewing all of the data! or selecting the posts likes to look at only?... FAKE NEWS'd! !!

    I have never have downvoted much if ever historically, but in here so many posters with made up data, false or misguided assumptions, misrepresented statements, zero tolerance for other peoples views .... or simply can't count?? ... a bit too passionate about it maybe.

    Who knows, but I will downvote what I find to be blatant rubbish posts. I have upvoted way more posts than downvoted. There are still Plenty of respectable posts in here to upvote.

    -1
    #492 49 days ago
    Quoted from Humph:

    .... not much of a minority speaking out in the form of OP upvotes – consensus is a resounding “No” .....
    .

    Who in their right mind would Post or vote in here about sliding being not in the spirit of the game, just to face slander or ridicule by some people whom do want to cheat the game (in our opinions) ?

    Kudos to those whom have made a stand for their beliefs, posted, polled, and faced any of the tomato slinging from the people in here whom are so passionate about extreme manipulation of the game of pinball.

    It is an interest poll, not meant to dictate the overarching "rule of law". Everyone can have their view for or against, well, I had hoped so..... ?

    What is the punishment for calling sliding cheating again??? ... Silencing? ... intimidation? ... imprisonment? .... a good bashing because my view is "wrong" ?

    Wow!

    #493 49 days ago

    for some reason, i just got the urge to look up this word and find out what it really means.

    psychobabble

    1] a form of speech or writing that uses psychological jargon, buzzwords, and esoteric language to create an impression of truth or plausibility.

    2] a predominantly metaphorical language for expressing one's feelings

    and from the urban dictionary:
    3] anytime someone says something totally ridiculous and you just wish they would shut up

    #494 49 days ago

    I didn't think poll results or down vote numbers would sit well with you based on your previous rants.

    The down vote vs. up vote numbers are simply cumulative for your posts which make up 25÷ of all posts. Not about to spend > 10 min looking at each individual down vote & the few up votes that may cancel some of them. It's clear enough as is.

    Facts do suck when they are in your disfavor.

    Don't do polls if you can't accept the results or the majority of opinion in this forum.

    -6
    #495 49 days ago
    Quoted from greenhornet:

    for some reason, i just got the urge to look up this word and find out what it really means.
    psychobabble
    1] a form of speech or writing that uses psychological jargon, buzzwords, and esoteric language to create an impression of truth or plausibility.
    2] a predominantly metaphorical language for expressing one's feelings
    and from the urban dictionary:
    3] anytime someone says something totally ridiculous and you just wish they would shut up

    I know right, exactly what so many sliders have been doing in here. Psychobabbling.

    #497 49 days ago

    A slider is an American term for a steam-grilled sandwich, typically around 2 inches across, made with a bun.

    #498 49 days ago
    Quoted from punkin:

    Good chance our OP has some odds running with his mates on how many views or posts he can get.....

    Yeah I'm doing okay so far, kinda. If yes votes get 40% or more for this Pinside poll I have to cough up...

    #499 49 days ago
    Quoted from Humph:

    I didn't think poll results or down vote numbers would sit well with you based on your previous rants.
    The down vote vs. up vote numbers are simply cumulative for your posts which make up 25÷ of all posts. Not about to spend > 10 min looking at each individual down vote & the few up votes that may cancel some of them. It's clear enough as is.
    Facts do suck when they are in your disfavor.
    Don't do polls if you can't accept the results or the majority of opinion in this forum.

    So present false data instead of researching facts. I get it. Lol

    #500 49 days ago

    POST No. 500!! Yay

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 22.00
    Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 89.99
    $ 26.95
    From: $ 175.00
    Gameroom - Decorations
    Pinball Photos
    $ 79.99
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Great American Pinball
    $ 69.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 9.95
    $ 36.99
    Lighting - Interactive
    Lee's Parts
    € 9.95
    Playfield - Other
    Multigame
    $ 21.95
    Apparel - Unisex
    Pinball Wheezer
    $ 999.00
    Pinball Machine
    Mircoplayfields
    $ 20.00
    Playfield - Decals
    Flashinstinct
    From: $ 5.00
    Cabinet - Other
    Rock Custom Pinball
    $ 79.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 7,995.00
    Pinball Machine
    Classic Game Rooms
    $ 249.00
    Lighting - Led
    PinballBulbs
    $ 26.95
    $ 189.99
    From: $ 5.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Medisinyl Mods
    $ 23.25
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    The MOD Couple
    $ 7,300.00
    Pinball Machine
    Great American Pinball
    There are 769 posts in this topic. You are on page 10 of 16.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside