Would it be considered cheating if a big earthquake hit as the ball was about to drain, and the machine slid to the side and the ball was saved?

Probably not on my games, as I have the anti cheat devices set pretty tight so it would probably tilt.

That would be considered an act of god (vid)

99% of the time. Tournaments arn't ususally held on route. It's always privately owned collections and games.

This maybe used to be the case. But now, I’d say 90% of tournaments are on location.

Slide Save - if it's not been mentioned - the JJP book on POTC actually recommends sliding to save the ball from the left middle outlane.
Maybe not a full slide - but definitely in the realm. ; )

not around here. Most are held by people with private collections. Same with leagues.

Don't get too into the weeds with this stuff. Leagues/tournies are diff'ernt all over.
Location, location with the router in the tournament, home locations, in a barn....etc. All sorts of places involved.

This thread is still going?

Well you're the mod that's been letting this JO keep trolling everyday

I remember the first time I saw someone manage a multiball by cradling 2 balls while shooting the 3rd. My first reaction was “hey, can he do that?”. I had only ever seen people flailing at balls during a multiball, and cradling seemed “wrong” to me. Needless to say, I cradle my balls all the time now and I think it’s an essential skill.

I hope to learn to slide save, because that too is an essential skill. If you’re on ball 3 on a DMD and you know the bonus won’t get you there, what the hell do you have to lose? I wouldn’t do it on older games because I’d be afraid to tilt through.

Cheaper than a HBO subscription!

I keep checking back on this thread to see if maybe someone will invent a device that would allow you to control how much a machine can be manipulated during gameplay. You could make a fortune with it in Australia!

Wow - that was fast!!

Lol...I posted that without reading your previous post. Lol!

I was going to say... somebody on here way faster than me!

Interesting. I’d say every tournament with the exception of like maybe 5 out of hundreds in the states of IN KY and OH are on location.

And in 100% of them slide saves were legal. Haha

The only point worth discussing here is whether slide saves prevent collectors from offering up their games for competition. I’ve donated countless newer games to tournaments, and this never even crossed my mind. I’m more worried about whether the game is 100% and is going to be good for the tournament. If someone holds back a creampuff pin because they’re worried someone will hurt it, you’re better off as the TD going to someone else. IMHO.

Is Telekinesis cheating? I do it allot. I mostly never works.

I used to race cars. But I thought it was cheating to redline the engine; it’s just too easy to break things if you redline. I know it’s in the rules to do it, but NOT IN MY CAR. No way. That might lower the resale value. So, anyways. I discovered that if I wasn’t willing to push it to the limit, then I wasn’t going to win. I tried to get the other drivers to stop redlining their cars. But they wouldn’t listen to me, they just kept winning.

Makes total sense

Sometimes I say Fuck while I’m playing and then I feel bad.

Boy, that's a lot of pages for this subject. OP seems to keep fanning the flames. Oh well.

If you can get away with something without tilting, it's not cheating. If you tilt, well, that's what tilt is designed for.

Is it "abuse?" Well, if you're overly violent and smashing the machine against something, yes. Calm down.

But "cheating"? Really?

I'll bite. I'm in the excessive slide saves should be illegal club. As I've stated before a slide save should not be more then an inch or two. We have used my place for over a dozen or so unsanctioned tournaments. Following same rules as league. And yes people slide my games. I do too. But my games are tight in the line up so you can only move so far before heads hit. (Which has happened once) I don't think sliding a game is going to cause damage to the cab joints but do know in a tight lineup you can damage the head. And like yourself I worry more about my games playing in top shape. Same way when I take my games to shows. Every single year one or more of my games have been used for tournaments by the show. I could care less about the games being slide or shaken roughly while playing. But I will still say when your sliding a game 6,8,10 inches across the floor this should be a DQ.

If I can do this skillfully enough not to tilt, I deserve to keep playing out that ball. Assuming there are no rules against the maneuver.
(EDIT: I don’t think I’ve ever slid a game more than 2”, but this is a skill I want to learn for Pinburgh)

The tilts are tight enough that it’s virtually impossible. And they have rubber feet on the machines.

I don’t think I’ve seen a slide save in five years of playing in that tournament.

That’s not to say that it isn’t a valuable skill.

I'll rearrange it for you.
"If you can slide a game within a two inch margin skillfully enough not to tilt, I deserve to keep playing out that ball."
That I can agree with 100%. It's when players go out of this zone or across a foul line that should be a penalty. Just like many other games or sports. There should be a perimeter or foul line. But I'm just as guilty with shoving games across the line to save a ball. If it's others are doing it so will I. Doesn't change my belief that it should be penalized though.

So you're saying Pinburgh agrees that it is legal but makes the games so you can't do it.
Hmm, sounds to me like they are against slide saves also. Which is kind of funny because even though I'm vocally against slide saves I put carpet sliders on my games to make it easier to do a slide save. LOL

Granted it wasn't in a tournament setting but when I was in college my friend worked at a pizza place that had a DE Star Wars with either no tilt bob or one that wasn't working. Was it cheating for me to lift the machine up to bring a ball back into play from the outlanes?

Good chance our OP has some odds running with his mates on how many views or posts he can get.....

Got a little winded reading the 481 posts on this thread, but since this is a poll by the OP to gather opinion here, I took 10 minutes to show some of the stats:

Total posts = 481
Posts by OP = 122

OP Down votes = 279
OP Up votes = 10
OP No votes (or downvotes canceling out upvotes) = 73

Opinion seems pretty clear based on the above and not much of a minority speaking out in the form of OP upvotes – consensus is a resounding “No” - slide saves are not cheating.

I for one have slide saved for 45+ years and have never considered it cheating nor has my pinball group, although I will always ask/bow to the party that owns the machines if it’s O.K. It is a developed skill to perform a slide save without tilting and enhances gameplay, IMO. None of my pins have shown any signs of stress due to slide saves (Crikes, most are built like Panzer tanks), but I do tighten the leg bolts every now and then – part of maintenance.

I prefer the slap-slide save where a nudge isn’t enough and this has saved countless balls. Sometimes the feet can move an inch or two, sometimes not. If on a smooth floor, I usually move the machine forward a few inches to get the feet out of any ‘groove’ or sticky areas so slides can be better performed and this stresses the machine less.

IFPA allows slide saves, so I will play within that ruleset - if the owner disallows this, I will not slide save.
Fun for me either way.

We used to kick the coin door on a cyclone in a pizza joint to get free credits. We learned it from the shop owner. Is that cheating if he did it first? Would never do it as an adult and I feel bad about it now. I hope the game can forgive me for cheating it.

Pinburgh wants the games to not last forever. They also remove rubbers from post to make shorter games. Not because they think the ball bouncing off the rubber should be illegal.

It's ok -- laughing or having fun is also not welcomed at the PHOF

had a beautiful - downright elegant - slide save on a metallica pro tonight at league that helped me get into a second crank it up on one ball.

poured one out for the OP after that one. jah bless

Forgot to add the poll results thus far -

No, not cheating = 277
Yes, cheating = 123

Still a resounding "No" by over 2 to 1 margin.

Can I slide my machine to work on the one next to it(b/c this ass ain’t getting any smaller)

We're not complaining.

for some reason, i just got the urge to look up this word and find out what it really means.

psychobabble

1] a form of speech or writing that uses psychological jargon, buzzwords, and esoteric language to create an impression of truth or plausibility.

2] a predominantly metaphorical language for expressing one's feelings

and from the urban dictionary:
3] anytime someone says something totally ridiculous and you just wish they would shut up

I didn't think poll results or down vote numbers would sit well with you based on your previous rants.

The down vote vs. up vote numbers are simply cumulative for your posts which make up 25÷ of all posts. Not about to spend > 10 min looking at each individual down vote & the few up votes that may cancel some of them. It's clear enough as is.

Facts do suck when they are in your disfavor.

Don't do polls if you can't accept the results or the majority of opinion in this forum.

A slider is an American term for a steam-grilled sandwich, typically around 2 inches across, made with a bun.