(Topic ID: 251816)

Poll : Is a "slide save" (moving the feet) cheating the game?


By razorsedge

10 months ago



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  • 781 posts
  • 136 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 months ago by razorsedge
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    Topic poll

    “Poll : Is a "slide save" (moving the feet) cheating the game?”

    • Yes, slide saving is cheating the game. 176 votes
      32%
    • No, slide saving is not cheating the game. 366 votes
      68%

    (542 votes)

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    There are 781 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 16.
    -18
    #1 10 months ago

    I love pinball. I hate seeing them being abused, especially if they're mine. What led to this poll is discussion about the Legitimacy of these destructive Slide Saves. It can not be disputed that "slide saves" can often cause excessive (additional) wear and tear or damage to pinball machines. The dispute here is essentially over their Legitimacy.

    It's fairly one sided here, in our real world group, but I am interested to know what the whole really thinks.

    Is slide saving pinball machines (moving the machine across the floor so that the ball never goes down between the flippers) considered Cheating the Game by the average pinhead?

    ***Not calling Individuals Personally "cheaters". If your rules are there for it then it is not "cheating". . But about Pinball, is "slide saving" cheating The Game, it's intention and spirit. A philosophical discussion and poll.

    #2 10 months ago

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/slide-save-cheating-or-just-nudging/page/2

    Some discussion on that here if you haven’t read it. 2 years old though. Some new conversation is always good

    #3 10 months ago

    Came here because of the thread title!

    No, I think this is not cheating. I don't get how it causes additional damage to the game either. It may be a sign of an unskilled player like myself, but if you keep the tilt bob from going off, I guess it's ok

    37
    #4 10 months ago

    Not cheating. Not overtly damaging to the machine, either. Set your tilts correctly and the user will pay for it.

    I agree it is a bit rude to do it in someone's collection in casual play though, but more for cabinet bumpage and floor damage than anything else.

    -27
    #5 10 months ago
    Quoted from chubtoad13:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/slide-save-cheating-or-just-nudging/page/2
    Some discussion on that here if you haven’t read it. 2 years old though. Some new conversation is always good

    All I know is that slide saving is Not At All like nudging. The previous poll mixed that in there.

    Nudging has always been pinball.

    Slide saving is a Completely different kettle of fish, a new level of destruction. The gap between the flippers is intended for a ball to go between, by design. Circumventing that degrades the game in very many ways, imho.

    Discuss!

    -11
    #6 10 months ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    Not cheating. Not overtly damaging to the machine, either. Set your tilts correctly and the user will pay for it.
    I agree it is a bit rude to do it in someone's collection in casual play though, but more for cabinet bumpage and floor damage than anything else.

    Exactly.... not be able to do it. Period. (unless it's a "new stern")

    -44
    #7 10 months ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    I don't get how it causes additional damage to the game either.

    Are you for real??

    I guess it is understandable not everyone may see how.

    -16
    #8 10 months ago

    Well, for my own two bobs worth it is simply blatant cheating, abuse, and bad sportsmanship. Simple as that.

    I'm sure plenty will disagree... simply not welcome at our meets!

    #9 10 months ago

    IMHO, I would consider anything you can't do to a pin that's hypothetically bolted to the floor is questionable. You can nudge a bolted down pin but you can't slide it around.

    #10 10 months ago

    Slide saving is cool only if it's your game; otherwise its extremely inconsiderate nudging the table is sufficient enough for controlling the ball.

    39
    #11 10 months ago

    If you don't like people sliding your games, put something on the feet that makes them hard to move - like rubber feet.

    The idea that sliding a game is somehow damaging is preposterous.

    -26
    #12 10 months ago

    To me it is in exactly the same category as lifting the front of the game so that the ball rolls up playfield.

    #13 10 months ago
    Quoted from epthegeek:

    If you don't like people sliding your games, put something on the feet that makes them hard to move - like rubber feet.
    The idea that sliding a game is somehow damaging is preposterous.

    Yeah great, then the neanderthols rip your legs out of the cabinet instead. Fantastic!

    #14 10 months ago
    Quoted from epthegeek:

    If you don't like people sliding your games, put something on the feet that makes them hard to move - like rubber feet.
    The idea that sliding a game is somehow damaging is preposterous.

    I tend to agree that there isn’t any damage that would occur during a slide save unless the game hits something or it doesn’t slide.
    If you have the game on carpet or rubber feet hard nudging might’ve slid the game on concrete, but now all that force is transferred to the corners of the machine.

    #15 10 months ago
    Quoted from razorsedge:

    Yeah great, then the neanderthols rip your legs out of the cabinet instead. Fantastic!

    You can't be serious. This is commercial equipment meant for public use. Nobody is going to tear legs off.

    -14
    #16 10 months ago

    Geez I'm glad the overwhelming majority of my own pinhead mates see things the same way I do. Suck it up.

    Added 10 months ago:

    *Venue Rules *Play Better (Suck it up)

    Added 10 months ago:

    ...

    -2
    #17 10 months ago
    Quoted from epthegeek:

    You can't be serious. This is commercial equipment meant for public use. Nobody is going to tear legs off.

    Unless it's a Stern on carpet with rubber feet! Pmsl!

    #18 10 months ago
    Quoted from chubtoad13:

    I tend to agree that there isn’t any damage that would occur during a slide save unless the game hits something or it doesn’t slide.
    If you have the game on carpet or rubber feet hard nudging might’ve slid the game on concrete, but now all that force is transferred to the corners of the machine.

    That's crap it stresses the fu@k out of your cabinet/back legs. Exactly! ... it doesn't slide! .... wow

    68
    #19 10 months ago
    Quoted from razorsedge:

    Unless it's a Stern on carpet with rubber feet! Pmsl!

    Sounds like you need to disable your start button and just dust the games once a week. Wouldn't want to damage them.

    20
    #20 10 months ago
    Quoted from razorsedge:

    To me it is in exactly the same category as lifting the front of the game so that the ball rolls up playfield.

    Having a tilt bob is important. It will keep all of this from happening.
    Stopping players from sliding or lifting a game with a tilt is easier than trying to make everyone agree that sliding a game is cheating

    -6
    #21 10 months ago

    Super tight tilts it already is, but then one or two whinge cos they can't slide. Pmsl

    PLAY BETTER...

    It aint goin to last forever anyway.... why cheat the game?

    Sheep stations lol

    10
    #22 10 months ago

    No it's not cheating and it's a skill level some people can shake willy nilly without saving and some can do it and make a nice save. Keep your tilts tight which will make players make more subtle nudges.

    #23 10 months ago
    Quoted from epthegeek:

    Sounds like you need to disable your start button and just dust the games once a week. Wouldn't want to damage them.

    Nah playing them is fine!!

    Wanton destruction for ego.... get f"d.

    Play Better mate!

    #24 10 months ago
    Quoted from Coolpinballdino:

    No it's not cheating and it's a skill level some people can shake willy nilly without saving and some can do it without. Keep your tilts tight such will make players make more subtle nudges.

    I agree..... but, were talking about sliding the game across the floor! .... Not Nudging.

    -10
    #25 10 months ago

    If deathsaves are so bad which (unlike slide saves) are Designed Into various pinball rules and layouts...... wtf is this rubbish okay?

    It's cheating. Might as well take the glass off! Pmsl

    #26 10 months ago

    I don't think its cheating, but I do think that any barbarian can slide a game around it takes skill to master the nudge.

    #27 10 months ago
    Quoted from fisherdaman:

    I don't think its cheating, but I do think that any barbarian can slide a game around it takes skill to master the nudge.

    Agree partly.... once again, specifically talking about sliding game across floor. Not Nudging.

    #28 10 months ago

    The big question is - If you slide save on location, do you relevel the machine after your game?

    #29 10 months ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    Not cheating. Not overtly damaging to the machine, either. Set your tilts correctly and the user will pay for it.
    I agree it is a bit rude to do it in someone's collection in casual play though, but more for cabinet bumpage and floor damage than anything else.

    This sounds about right to me.

    76
    #30 10 months ago
    Quoted from razorsedge:

    Geez I'm glad the overwhelming majority of my own pinhead mates see things the same way I do. Suck it up.

    You shouldn't ask for someone's opinion then degrade them for giving it.

    #31 10 months ago

    Pinball used to involve gambling, back in my grandpa’s day. The question I would ask, “would the gambling establishment allow it?”

    #32 10 months ago

    Slide save = thug pinball.

    #33 10 months ago
    Quoted from Malenko:

    You shouldn't ask for someone's opinion then degrade them for giving it.

    I Only refered to anyone that doesn't like that they can't slide Our pins because the tilt is tight. I can give my opinion the same as anybody.

    Tilt tight (in hopes that butchers dont ruin our games).... play pinball and suck it up! ... easy!

    11
    #34 10 months ago
    Quoted from razorsedge:

    Are you for real??
    I guess it is understandable not everyone has an engineering degree.

    Please explain the damage that occurs.

    I have a machine on location and I watched a guy slide it 8-10 inches the other day to save the ball, I laughed.

    #35 10 months ago
    Quoted from LukyDuck:

    Pinball used to involve gambling, back in my grandpa’s day. The question I would ask, “would the gambling establishment allow it?”

    I know right!

    #36 10 months ago
    Quoted from LukyDuck:

    Pinball used to involve gambling, back in my grandpa’s day. The question I would ask, “would the gambling establishment allow it?”

    I know right!

    Seems like now everybody kids themselves into thinking it is not cheating or an unfair advantage.

    Incredible!

    -8
    #37 10 months ago
    Quoted from herbertbsharp:

    Please explain the damage that occurs.
    I have a machine on location and I watched a guy slide it 8-10 inches the other day to save the ball, I laughed.

    I do agree that in the right (but rare, for me) conditions damage will be minimal if any..... but that does not help you when one of these types of players rip your pin sideways on carpet with grippy feet.

    Explain the damage? ... really, are you that new to pinball?

    Besides, it is completeny not in the spirit of the game.

    #38 10 months ago

    Anyone slides my EM and they will be shown the door - never to be asked back again.

    #39 10 months ago
    Quoted from MD_Pinball_Dude:

    Anyone slides my EM and they will be shown the door - never to be asked back again.

    The voice of reason. Same policy here mate.

    #40 10 months ago

    I would like to see someone "damage" a System 3 Gottlieb tank during a slide. They made those tough.

    #41 10 months ago
    Quoted from chad:

    I would like to see someone "damage" a System 3 Gottlieb tank during a slide. They made those tough.

    Think anyone would also have a pretty hard time sliding the Alien! Pmsl

    *if they did it would cause great stress!

    #42 10 months ago

    Would I get kicked out of someone's basement for it, probably.

    Would I get kicked out of the IFPA championship for it, no.

    Slide Save = Rude <> Cheating

    -11
    #43 10 months ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Would I get kicked out of someone's basement for it, probably.
    Would I get kicked out of the IFPA championship for it, no.
    Slide Save = Rude &lt;&gt; Cheating

    Exactly the issue. IFPA is wrong.

    60
    #44 10 months ago

    I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is, since your mind is made up.

    14
    #45 10 months ago
    Quoted from razorsedge:

    Explain the damage? ... really, are you that new to pinball?

    Pretend I'm new and please explain it to me. I don't have an engineering degree.

    I've death saved my Metallica on a carpet floor more times than you've probably hit the start button and there is absolutely no damage at all.

    Quoted from razorsedge:

    Besides, it is completeny not in the spirit of the game.

    Who says? You?

    Quoted from razorsedge:

    I know right!
    Seems like now everybody kids themselves into thinking it is not cheating or an unfair advantage.
    Incredible!

    It's not cheating because the accepted rules governing tournaments say it isn't cheating. You can slide save the game all day, but if it falls off the rubber feet, you get a big fat 0.

    As for an unfair advantage, how do you come up with that conclusion? You're more than welcome to slide save the game if you choose.

    #46 10 months ago
    Quoted from stevevt:

    I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is, since your mind is made up.

    Ummm.... it's a poll, because I was interested to see what the masses believe.

    Yes it is shocking.

    17
    #47 10 months ago
    Quoted from razorsedge:

    I love pinball. I hate seeing them being abused, especially if they're mine.

    Adjust your tilt accordingly.

    -8
    #48 10 months ago
    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    Pretend I'm new and please explain it to me. I don't have an engineering degree.
    I've death saved my Metallica on a carpet floor more times than you've probably hit the start button and there is absolutely no damage at all.

    Who says? You?

    It's not cheating because the accepted rules governing tournaments say it isn't cheating. You can slide save the game all day, but if it falls off the rubber feet, you get a big fat 0.
    As for an unfair advantage, how do you come up with that conclusion? You're more than welcome to slide save the game if you choose.

    Why not just glue something in between the flippers?

    Lol

    #49 10 months ago

    I don't think you should be able to do that to machines, but if the owner has the machine set up so you can do it without tilting/etc, then it's 'legal'. I set my machines up so that you'll tilt if you do it, and I think that should be the standard at tournaments

    12
    #50 10 months ago
    Quoted from razorsedge:

    Ummm.... it's a poll, because I was interested to see what the masses believe.
    Yes it is shocking.

    Here's my opinion. I doubt you give half a shit about it, though.

    1. I don't want players to slide save my games.
    2. The solutions are to either make a rule to keep it from happening, tighten my tilts, or add rubber feet to my games.
    3. I do the last 2 (with tilts based on what I feel is correct for each machine), and I'm happy with how it works.
    4. You apparently do the first one. Totally reasonable.

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