(Topic ID: 39608)

Poll: Stern Quality

By pinster68

11 years ago


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Topic poll

“Does Stern Pinball Build a Quality Product?”

  • YES 190 votes
    43%
  • NO 254 votes
    57%

(444 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

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There are 389 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 8.
#51 11 years ago

On LED replacements that I've done where I've had this problem, I've added a dab of silicon caulk. Some suggest hot glue.

Quoted from KenH:

What do yo do about this?

Obvious and overkill fix would be to change to 44 twist sockets in those spots, but is there an quick-and-easy fix? Thin slice of Double-stick foam tape on the middle part of the bulb?

#52 11 years ago

Stern does make a Pro model that is still decent and comes in at a similar price to where pinball machines were at 10-20 years ago.

#53 11 years ago
Quoted from daley:

The point wasn't about the ability of the wire to carry the current, but of the ability of the thinner wire to handle the stress and vibrations from a pinball machine.

Thinner wire might do better in vibration -- less momentum.

#54 11 years ago
Quoted from KenH:

Thinner wire might do better in vibration -- less momentum.

You quoted the wrong person.

#55 11 years ago
Quoted from KenH:

Thinner wire might do better in vibration -- less momentum.

Lighter/thinner wire is more prone to vibration and they have a smaller solder point at termination. I don't think it's a huge deal, but it is a quality downgrade that some have noticed.

#56 11 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

He did not say that in his post. I am not a mind reader.

You are correct, the post here did not say that. 'The point' I was referring to was Clay's original comment that rplante was referring to. I was merely informing you about what the complaint regarding thickness was actually about. I was not correcting you.

#57 11 years ago

This discussion is almost splitting into 2 different issues. One is build quality, one is engineering.

I'm OK with a couple build quality issues. If its something I can clean up, tighten or adjust a little then not have to worry about in home use again, its not a huge problem.
The engineering issues are way more disturbing. The smaller wire, cheesy little pops bumpers with an LED sticking out the top like a birthday candle and other flimsy looking hardware make these machines feel like they wouldn't hold up in a commercial environment, and you're stuck with those issues.

I'm OK with prices going up while maintaining that commercial quality. Less OK with using inferior hardware to keep the price the same. Totally not OK with using cheap materials/construction AND raising the price.

#58 11 years ago
Quoted from pinster68:

Some prominent pinball people recently haved shared their disgust with Stern's lack of quality.

Some of those prominent pinball people clearly have agendas. If you review AC/DC, easily one of the best games built in the last 10 years, and your review is mostly negative, you might have a chip on your shoulder. If you can't see this, perhaps you should have your vision checked.

If you want precision engineering, collect watches built in Switzerland instead. Pinball machines inevitably need to be repaired.

#59 11 years ago

My concern with the reduction in wire gauge is both mechanical and electrical. The larger issue however is the lower quality components being utilized by Stern in order to cut production costs at the same time they're increasing the cost of their machines.

Personally, I can't justify the expense but maybe others can. My hope is that they will reverse this trend but that won't happen until we acknowledge the problem and demand better.

On a brighter note, they seem to get good marks on customer service after the sale which is encouraging.

#60 11 years ago
Quoted from krupa:

TVs. Cars. Smart phones. Computers. Washers and dryers. Have you ever done research before making these kinds of purchases? Quality has gone down everywhere.

That can be said about some things.. I mean I've heard horror stories about Sears branded washers leaking (brand new). Computers and smartphones are pretty much throw-away products (lucky to get a year warranty on a Dell). Tv's are typically pretty reliable, and cars? Well with a standard 3-year 36,000 mile warranty, you better believe a car better be reliable. No company wants to pay for warranty issues, it really cuts into profits. Company I work for is pushing for less than 1% returns on most of our products.

Personally, I don't think Stern doesn't care about quality, I just don't think they have the time. Rushing 3 games out per year with way less staff than williams would have had (and smaller sales, even with the current surge), you just aren't going to see it happen.

#61 11 years ago

A lot of posters here are talking about PRO features and then quoting the MSRP of LE machines ($7K+). The LEs do include more than most of the past machines (powder-coated or chromed trim, shaker motors, custom art, mirrored real backglasses, LED lighting) plus some of the traditional features like the lock bar mech and the under-playfield rails.

Some parts of traditional games were likely over-engineered and what's wrong with righting this? In other words, does an apron NEED to be steel? It holds price cards and directs drained balls to the outhole. The plastic ones are practically over-engineered! If lighter gauge wire suffices for a current-load, what's the problem? Is there really a mechanical problem with the pop bumper caps?

Stern's board sets seem to be rock solid which in my opinion is number 1 in importance....haven't really heard of the thinner gauge wire breaking or coming loose at solder joints, haven't heard of aprons catistrophically failing (lol), no burnt connectors in the head, etc......just seems like a lot of folks like to complain. Don't buy their products if you don't feel there is value there.

#62 11 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

You quoted the wrong person.

Sorry, I just used the auto quote thingy...but I guess I inadvertently pulled it from your post. But I thought the mind reader comment was funny

I fixed it (didn't even know about that feature).

#63 11 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

Some of those prominent pinball people clearly have agendas. If you review AC/DC, easily one of the best games built in the last 10 years, and your review is mostly negative, you might have a chip on your shoulder. If you can't see this, perhaps you should have your vision checked.

When you talk about AC/DC reviews, are you talking the ones upon release with early code? Because a lot of people didn't care for the game early on (including me)... and the ugrades to code and the cannon have been pretty significant IMO. Just like SM, if you based the game solely on it's state upon release, the review would certainly be different than a review now! Just because someone didn't like the game early on, doesn't mean they "have an agenda".

The difference with X-men? We don't have Lyman making brilliant code changes to make the game as bad ass as it could be. Instead, horrible code = horrible game. If TF and X-men had the same kind of dedication to code, they would be different games!

You can guarantee that the first two questions I have for any Stern game is 1. who did the code. and 2. Who designed it?.. If I'm happy with those two things, I can probably deal with any quality issues as long as I have a good playing, awesome code, kick ass pinball machine!

#64 11 years ago

I've bought 3 NIB Sterns in the last 2 years and all 3 had problems right out of the box, some making the game unplayable. That's unacceptable in my book and I'm not dying to purchase a NIB from Stern anytime soon.

With that said, Patrick Powers at Stern has been great at remedying all the problems I've had.

#65 11 years ago

No complaints here...

Have bought many NIB Stern machines in the past couple of years. A few minor problems here and there, but basically small cosmetic issues that were fixed after a call to Stern's Customer service which is superb!

#66 11 years ago

Love the theme and design of my xmen, but think the code and quality just don't add up to the pricing. First of all I do need to compliment their customer service, it has been excellent . But Here is one example of a problem needing to be addressed. Took a relatively short phone call and cradled the ball because I had a good game going. Before finishing the call, the flipper dropped down and I had to have the q15 transistor replaced. put my machine down with a family holiday gathering around the corner when I wanted to show off my nib xmen. Reading on forum, sounds like a known problem at least as far back as lord of the rings. Never had any problems of this nature with my bally williams and I am disappointed when I compare the solid feel of them to stern. But maybe b/w was just to good a product, and these machines were never meant to survive as long as they have. Without better code to start and becoming more dedicated to rectify bad code on machines maybe released prematurely. I for one, will probably never buy a nib stern again( and I loved the Avengers theme)! Stern was the only act in town and I thank them for keeping pinball alive, but maybe now the competition will force them to look at their business model , turn around and produce better games with more bang for their buck, or at least fairer pricing for the product they are producing.

#67 11 years ago

I opted for a poll that asked simply if you felt Stern built quality. I left the "gray" vote out as it would just scream "good enough". To me (and many) - that isn't quality, it just means you'll settle for less.

-1
#68 11 years ago

I can equate Stern 'quality' to car guys on this forum. Bally/Wms games were GM quality~they built millions of them and they were workhorses. Yes, every once & awhile you'd get a dog but for the most part decent quality. Older-era Sterns were of Ford quality. Decent, simple to fix machines, not quite as durable as others, but hey, you expected that. Data East/Sega machines were the AMC's of their era-put together like shit, looked the same and scrapped when 'used up'. Modern-day Stern's~well, let's just say we'll put them in the Dodge category and leave it at that.
Doc

#69 11 years ago

Build quality 2002-2007 was good. I have several machines from this time frame that look better than the newer games. Current build quality is cheap as plastics on Avengers feel real cheap. Current build quality is below average.

#70 11 years ago

Stern quality from 2003 and 2004 was outstanding...TSPP and lotr are proof of that. Something started changing in the past couple of years. Maybe its because times are tough, sales were down and margins were pressured that they had to find a way to make it work. Their customer service is great...maybe they will get the messages these boards are conveying.

#71 11 years ago

I think around 2009 is where things took a downward turn. Between BBH and Iron Man there was a shift...

#72 11 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

Build quality 2002-2007 was good. I have several machines from this time frame that look better than the newer games. Current build quality is cheap as plastics on Avengers feel real cheap. Current build quality is below average.

How do the plastics feel cheap? I highly doubt Stern has changed their plastic "formula" or supplier or whatever. A plastic is a plastic.

#73 11 years ago

I think it just might be that its soooo much plastic? Mick on a stick, Nightcrawlers,ACDC cannons and pro train. Avengers helocarrier. Default idea of late seems to be to just print a picture on a plastic and we are good to go.

I love seeing things like the LE train, hulk, wolverine... just wish more of the machine was made like that.

#74 11 years ago

They seem thinner and cheaper by eye. Pop bumper plastics, sling plastics and ,any others sem to be cheaper in size and quality.

#75 11 years ago
Quoted from pinaholic:

They seem thinner and cheaper by eye. Pop bumper plastics, sling plastics and ,any others sem to be cheaper in size and quality.

Agreed, they are thinner, much more flex. The plastic going up the shooter lane is very thin and it flexes when ball bounces off it. The Loki lock display and the plastic ship near HE ramp also flimsy. No question the quality is lower here. Everything else seems fine, and i am in no way bashing stern, just stating the obvious...I absolutely love the game!

#76 11 years ago

As long as FG was built with quality. That's the only Stern I'd like to own someday.

#77 11 years ago

I think Sterns quality is better than two years ago but not exactly good enough for the prices charged. AC/DC is awesome but I would have hoped for custom inserts in the min pf as the normal shapes look dumb. I'd love for them to make custom version even to buy at their cost just as a customer service move.
The canon and Tnt look cheesy with the graphics in the plastics vs real toys.
I will say that this latest TF LE I just bought is MUCH better built than the first runs. Better Clear coat, AC/DC style red dmd, Leg protectors installed with decals cut out professionally. Looks a ton better all around then my earlier TF LE.
I think they are beginning to get it but still need to listen and make things happen better. SLOW down and focus instead of just kicking games out with home editions in the middle of them. Just Make ONE version and make it GREAT!

#78 11 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Tv's are typically pretty reliable, and cars? Well with a standard 3-year 36,000 mile warranty, you better believe a car better be reliable. No company wants to pay for warranty issues, it really cuts into profits.

At this link you can find four pages of 2013 car recalls. http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_recalls/04/2013/

And yes, new TVs crap out more than you think. Just search Samsung Power Defect.

#79 11 years ago

but if your tv or car is broken it gets fully replaced. No tv manufacturers send out a part and expect you to fix it yourself or tell you to live with it...
Faulty TVs are also the minority 95% of people who buy a TV get it open and have no issues for at least afew years.

#80 11 years ago

I was originally responding to this.

Quoted from Nighomnipotus:

What other product or item do people buy where when new, out of the box things are already happening that aren't supposed to happen?

I also said it didn't excuse Stern for their QC. Just that they weren't alone.

Also, if somebody doesn't know how to fix a pin or doesn't know somebody they can hire they probably shouldn't buy one. From any manufacturer.

#81 11 years ago

More clear coat.....................and we will pay for it!

#82 11 years ago

this a tricky topic. Price is also in relation. Reason TF was a big topic, is because they jacked the price up and a bunch of quality issues were expected to rise as well. They did not. Hence the drama with it. If they had the price point they did with IronMan, and had the quality they do today. I don't think anyone would be bitching. It would be in line with the price point. But now that they doubled the price. it's not up to par with asking price.

#83 11 years ago
Quoted from thedarkknight77:

More clear coat.....................and we will pay for it!

+1. Iceman mentioned this as well. I'd pay for it.

#84 11 years ago

I bought a XMEN LE and besides the code issue the playfield was great especially the clear. Avengers clear is non existant. Other than the arms getting chewed up its a really great game.

#85 11 years ago
Quoted from krupa:

Also, if somebody doesn't know how to fix a pin or doesn't know somebody they can hire they probably shouldn't buy one. From any manufacturer.

That is just a silly argument. Many people purchase items that are more complex than they expect and turn here and other places for help.

#86 11 years ago

Its a worry when a company has been around for some 60 years and they cannot get their QA department right... Sure I am opinionated however I have never had the intention of getting personal with people that buy Sterns products rather I am sick of Stern taking advantage of its customers. Without mentioning their quality control issues, they have failed to implement innovation in their software (ACDC is an exception) and they continue to use cheap failing parts whilst jacking the price up. Every business is entitled to make money, however I think Stern are cutting just a few too many corners... It will be good to see other companies taking advantage of this, however if Stern were the only ones left in the market would they be sticking to the same old pinball design??? I think so.

More than likely they are only working on a few new things due to the competition.... How is it that 2 new companies that have never made pinballs before are releasing LCDs in the playfield and the backbox for their FIRST game?

Come on Stern!! Have the balls to implement new innovations, work making sure that the games are delivered to the highest quality, start mixing up the game design as was done with ACDC (playfield could have been better), and one day just maybe we might also see a wide bodied game like that of JJP..

#87 11 years ago
Quoted from absocountry2:

That is just a silly argument. Many people purchase items that are more complex than they expect and turn here and other places for help.

I better not buy a car, or a phone, or a TV then as I don't know how to fix them

#88 11 years ago

Anyone who can actually sit there with a straight face and say they don't think Stern games have a cheap quality, thin flimsy plastics on the playfield is in denial. Reasons? I'm sure there are many, to keep the price down is the one that comes to mind. But to deny that they aren't thin and cheap feeling puzzles me. As far as quality control, it's been up & down, hit or miss, not good. In my opinion, the "new" company that took over had a negative impact on quality. Also in my opinion, when Joe Blackwell left things got worse.

-1
#89 11 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

Anyone who can actually sit there with a straight face and say they don't think Stern games have a cheap quality, thin flimsy plastics on the playfield is in denial. Reasons? I'm sure there are many, to keep the price down is the one that comes to mind. But to deny that they aren't thin and cheap feeling puzzles me. As far as quality control, it's been up & down, hit or miss, not good. In my opinion, the "new" company that took over had a negative impact on quality. Also in my opinion, when Joe Blackwell left things got worse.

The scary thing is, as cheap Stern is, they keep getting cheaper and cheaper and cheaper! I see ZERO getting better and no turns for the better ANYWHERE as far as a quality, durable product! If Gary could figure out a way to replace the plastics with cereal box printed cardboard to save $10, I think he would.

#90 11 years ago
Quoted from Cobray:

If Gary could figure out a way to replace the plastics with cereal box printed cardboard to save $10, I think he would.

Maybe thats why they just hired that Trading Card guy recently!

#91 11 years ago

I hope the guys at Stern are reading this thread.

#92 11 years ago
Quoted from RGR:

How is it that 2 new companies that have never made pinballs before are releasing LCDs in the playfield and the backbox for their FIRST game?

Come on Stern!! Have the balls to implement new innovations, work making sure that the games are delivered to the highest quality, start mixing up the game design as was done with ACDC (playfield could have been better), and one day just maybe we might also see a wide bodied game like that of JJP..

There is going to be anarchy and a revolution in the pinball world when these other pins hit the market!

#93 11 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

I hope the guys at Stern are reading this thread.

I bet they are.I am a Stern fan and a potential buyer of the next Star Trek so I hope they do improve their QC. If they don't it could be a deal breaker.......

#94 11 years ago
Quoted from scooter:

I bet they are.I am a Stern fan and a potential buyer of the next Star Trek so I hope they do improve their QC. If they don't it could be a deal breaker.......

Me too with Star Trek...Woz will be out and Stern better up the effort...

#95 11 years ago

I have an ac/dc premium coming in march maybe they could give it a once or twice over before they send it out the door

#96 11 years ago
Quoted from absocountry2:

That is just a silly argument. Many people purchase items that are more complex than they expect and turn here and other places for help.

I probably worded that wrong. Should've said "willing to learn how to fix." My point was things are going to break on a pinball machine.

Quoted from Shapeshifter:

I better not buy a car, or a phone, or a TV then as I don't know how to fix them

Please read my post. I wasn't suggesting anything of the sort.

#97 11 years ago
Quoted from PW79:

I own 3 Sterns & looking to add 2 more Stern titles this year but...
The quality vs price is uncool
My buddy's ACDC premium has a cloudy window & insert art chipping off by the drop targets. His Hulk is broken on Avengers already too. The dude's WOF is unfinished, TF cannon malfunctions & Xmen woes round out some real bummers.

I am not sure if you mean NIB sterns or not for your future purchases.

If so, my question in response to your observations above is "Why, why, why?".

#98 11 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

I hope the guys at Stern are reading this thread.

I haven't seen anything over the past couple of years to indicate that they really care.

The one bright star I see with Stern is AC/DC. It seems to have been an overwhelming success as a playing game. As a game, I really enjoy it although the yucky clouded window is an embarrassment IMHO.

The quality of the machines when compared to earlier models, however, is quite suspect IMHO. Stern is undoubtedly smack dab in the middle of a major cost cutting mode on commercial machines where nothing can survive the accountant's knife. Thinner playfields, jenky 7-Eleven download art, speaker wiring, shrink y dink plastics, Walmart toys, etc.

I doubt it is going to get much better within near future models either. I have a pretty good feeling that I will be drinking coffee out of a cup with the same picture of Chris Pine that will be on the center of the translite for Star Trek....

#99 11 years ago
Quoted from gearheaddropping:

The quality of the machines when compared to earlier models, however, is quite suspect IMHO. Stern is undoubtedly smack dab in the middle of a major cost cutting mode on commercial machines where nothing can survive the accountant's knife. Thinner playfields, jenky 7-Eleven download art, speaker wiring, shrink y dink plastics, Walmart toys, etc.

My LOTR and AC/DC have the same playfield and plastics thickness. Speaker wire gauge is thicker going to the sub on AC/DC. And only LOTR has Walmart toys. Art is MUCH better on LOTR though. Whole different level.

#100 11 years ago

Krupa,
Does AC/DC premium feel like an arcade quality game to you build wise?

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