(Topic ID: 77873)

Stern Pinball code release protest. Not enough communication. Lack of faith.


By erak

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 63 posts
  • 26 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Roostking
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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Linked Games

Topic poll

“How to you feel about Stern and the info given to customers?”

  • Dont care as long as new games keep coming. 45 votes
    18%
  • Not enough, tired of being in the dark. 76 votes
    31%
  • Things are fine, the information given is enough. 29 votes
    12%
  • I will not buy another Stern until they change their ways. 98 votes
    40%

(248 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

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There are 63 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 5 years ago

I want to start this poll. This is in protest to Stern dodging questions about code, release dates, or just anything else in general they don't want to show on their facebook page or release to their customers by any other media. I want a realistic outlook of what customers/owners feel is happening with their games rather than a fluffy facebook page that only displays what they want you to see. Or want you to know.

Don't get me wrong, I love my stern pins. But the way they handle P.R. is insulting to anyone that has bought from them and wants info on when or if their game is still being updated. Or will be completed.

I wrote an email directly to Stern after a facebook post of mine was removed. I actually received a response, but it was just as vage and seemed condescending. Made it seem like I should be content with how things are handled and should be thankful that I got a response.

#2 5 years ago

I don't see a poll to vote on?

#3 5 years ago

Just added it.

#5 5 years ago

Just hoping that since Stern seems to be active on pinside and have stated that around 50% of their U.S sales are for the home/ collector market. And the other % of their sales goes to Canada and europe.
By my guess 50% of that is probably home market as well. That would average out to 50% of all sales are the home market. Makes sence.

This means we actually have a say in how they operate and supply their customers with info.
And maybe, just maybe. Someone will take notice and make a change to their P.R. system.

17
#6 5 years ago

OT: I hate facebook!

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

OT: I hate facebook!

Me too. But Sterns facebook page is a joke!
Its supposed to be for collectors to get the latest info and be able to talk about the newest games or updates. What we have is a garbage page with nothing of any significance to anyone.

#8 5 years ago

Met has been transparent on what is coming from John Borg via expo and interview vids.
Trek has been transparent on what is coming from Steve Ritchie via facebook and pinball news.

The others not so much.

Policy is they don't post on pinside, rest assured they DO read the forums.

The problem with giving set times and dates is setting up for failure, and ridicule.
Easier to just say "soon" or "it's coming"

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

Met has been transparent on what is coming from John Borg via expo and interview vids.
Trek has been transparent on what is coming from Steve Ritchie via facebook and pinball news.
The others not so much.
Policy is they don't post on pinside, rest assured they DO read the forums.
The problem with giving set times and dates is setting up for failure, and ridicule.
Easier to just say "soon" or "it's coming"

I know its easier to just say soon, or its coming. But what about posting " past few titles" what titles exactly are they?
What can we expect? What do they plan to implement? Will owners of Metallica who deserve info that its almost done get it? Or will the coming updates be finished code? And thats what is taking so long. Thanks for being patient over the last months.

Being in the dark about something you spent good money on is not good business practice.

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from erak:

Being in the dark about something you spent good money on is not good business practice.

See if who you bought your game from can get some answers for you.

LTG : )

#11 5 years ago

I am sure that others and myself would be content with a list of titles actually being worked on.
As well as an estimated arrival date for code on said titles. If the date is not met I am sure customers would be content with a statement saying the release has been postponed and this new date has been set.

It a lot better than " a few titles are being worked on"

Video game developers postpone release dates all the time and notify customers of changes online by their websites or facebook pages.
But at least you get " expected by " dates.

Hey, if its on time or early even better. Just let us know its not abandonware. Especially when a new title is announced and the last ones are still not finished.

#12 5 years ago

they could give a crap about what you or anyone thinks, is that not plainly obvious?.......pretty simple at this point Vote with your Walllet.

Peace, B.

#13 5 years ago

The poll is there to help show that if close to 50% of their total sales are the collector market.
Than if these poll numbers are an accurate representation and average out to how most buyers feel than they may have lost quite a few total sales due to the way game releases with unfinished code is currently handled. And if you count in those that are not happy with information given it would affect preorders as well. This will also affect sales and that number could be higher.

No company wants to lose a possibe % of sales. Or distributors sit on % of product they can't start to move until 6-8 months or a year later. They wont order new product from Stern either if they csnt sell what they already are sitting on. Or have that % affected or viewed in a negative way. Even it was less this shows that how they have handled things will motivate people in the future.

#14 5 years ago

Wait and purchase the product when it has matured and you won't have to worry about the lack of transparency or stress about whether it will ever be taken care of.

I can think of numerous products that are technology related that may have issues and you will have a similar lack of transparency in regards to fixes/updates. Last year, there was an Onkyo receiver I wanted to buy but I saw early adopters were having some major issues with it and there was a sh*t storm of hate on the message boards about it. All the owners wanted to know when an update was going to be available to download. Almost a full year after launch, Onkyo finally had a reliable fix to download. I didn't buy my unit until the update was ready.

Another example where I failed to wait and purchase a mature product was I when I bought a Boxee last year. The unit mostly worked but had definite issues and the company was a very iffy in their reputation for product fixes/support as well. Next thing I know, Samsung bought them out and my Boxee doesn't even function anymore because they dropped support. It's a doorstop. I took a risk and got burnt.

There are problems with cars too... that's why they make model year changes to fix crap that they found out didn't work well in the first model year of a car. Do the auto makers tell you about it... hell no. You find out when something fails and you find out there was a service bulletin to the dealers about it. Only when it's a safety issue, are they forced to do notify owners and do a recall.

It's not just Stern. I'm not saying it justifies it or invalidates your angst, but it is not unique to Stern. I can think of lots of examples across lots of industries.

#15 5 years ago

You guys talk about pinball companies as if they are apple, samsung or microsoft. I think it's clear at this point that they don't have a couple hundred programmers sitting around waiting to fix issues.

Bottom line, you pre order, you are a beta tester. I haven't even been around here for too long and i know that.

You bought something that costs $7500 without ever using it and it's something that can't simply be put back in the box and sent back to amazon.
Quite the risk IMO, especially after reading about a million posts about code updates.

Simple solution is to just wait until it's out to buy it.
I get it, you want the new stuff right away, i really do understand, but it's not without risk.

You don't like the way you are handled, vote with your wallet, by not preordering.
Probably save you a couple thousand bucks anyway on the used market.

Stern isn't the problem here, it's you guys that know if you buy this stuff code updates are slow and possibly nonexistant, yet you buy it anyway. Then you complain.

#16 5 years ago

The Occupy Wall Street guys thought they got a lot accomplished as well!

#17 5 years ago

I don't think the problem is being a beta tester. The problem is that no information is given when or if a game will be completed. An estimated complete date would probably make a lot of people content.
I know I would feel better just knowing what games were being worked on.
I personally own a Star Trek and just bought a X-men Magneto LE.
I have no real problem with how the code for Star Trek is being handled other than if I was given an expected date for another update. Also this seems to be their flagship machine that is getting the most attention and has shipped the most complete.

The xmen I purchased last month however.. the current code is good to great (I stated it was)but the game does seem unfinished in areas. When I asked Stern directly by email after posting it on their facebook page, if I could possibly expect a update to this game. It was then deleated si I emailed them. The direct email response stated we are working on updates on some of our games, and they are accepting applications for coding games. Etc. Etc. Did this answer my question at all? NO!
If anything it made it seem like they are in trouble with code and need help getting games finished. And can't deal with the overload of unfinished games. And don't know where to start.

Pure speculation however because I went in with no answer and was left with no answer.
Par for the course, which is the main problem. Being straightforward is not their strongsuit.

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from tbanthony:

Wait and purchase the product when it has matured and you won't have to worry about the lack of transparency or stress about whether it will ever be taken care of.

That is the problem. If they were more communicative about what is going to be a priority. People would still preorder and purchase knowing they won't be abandoned or left in the dark. You could be sure the product was going to mature.
This would solve problems of distributors having stock that they need to liquidate as it was sitting for months because no one wants to touch until buyers know what they are going to get.

Its not that we keep buying unfinished games. And like to complain about it. Most games have had updates or been finished to satisfaction. But no ones knows when or if they are coming for a few titles that really need closure. It seems not even Stern knows for sure. As they refuse to let us know.

Knowing is half the battle

That's what has left the bad impression with

#19 5 years ago

Fark Stern, I am sticking to my guns and will not be buying any more incomplete and over-priced boat anchors from them ever again.

#20 5 years ago

I'm done with them. I love my Xmen LE but they missed the boat on the code from day one and darn near made it worse. If that goes uncorrected I will hold out for whatever PPS remakes and JJP games. I'll never get boned by them again that way.

#21 5 years ago

More votes!

1 month later
-14
#22 5 years ago

Screw Stern, may they rot in hell with their unfinished boat anchors.

Post edited by robin : Ban vote issued. This kind of remark is not welcome here.

#23 5 years ago

The last few games will be getting updates.. do you really need a crystal ball and doctorate in metaphysical incontinence to figure out what that means?

There are very few companies that tell you exactly what is going to be updated and what that update includes. Very few. If it bugs you that much, then simply put don't buy the games until YOU feel the code is acceptable for your tastes. People feeling like they own 'boat anchors' are simply reading too much gossip and thinking too hard about it which ruins the fun of pinball in the first place. You're supposed to enjoy the game and be happy as it evolves over time, not stress out and hate everything because some bell doesn't ding yet and you want a report out of why.

History shows that nearly every game evolves and becomes quite good with refined code, but there's obviously no set schedule for it and I don't blame them. Stern usually only says what they are comfortable with, can you imagine if they said it would be done on X date and missed the date? People would be on suicide watch here. Hell, JJP took their updates to their private forums because of the lunacy.

#24 5 years ago

I think that there should be a feature added that people cannot resurrect threads older than a week unless they are the OP. Especially when 99% of the time the post that resurrects the thread is completely useless.

#25 5 years ago

Oh great, another thread to bash a manufacturer and you wonder why Stern and others don't post here at all. Still very surprised JJP staff post here given the hostile environment that exists towards them.

-7
#26 5 years ago

image-500.jpgA picture of a Stern pinball.
Why do people on here care what someone thinks about a company?
A few of the people on here act like stockholders.
Is Stern paying your house payment?
No
They have a poor record for issuing updates, and people are getting tired of the shenanigans .
Poor Stern, No wonder they don't post on here...

If they read our messages, they might get the message.
I support boycotting new machines to put economic pressure on Stern to change their poor service to customers.

The people who protect Stern on here can cry in their beer mugs.

-7
#27 5 years ago

image-979.jpgPicture of Stern's support.

-5
#28 5 years ago

The reason Stern doesn't post here.
The truth hurts.

-4
#29 5 years ago

If Stern loses sales, they will give us code.

-3
#30 5 years ago

Erak rules!!!

-6
#31 5 years ago

image-722.jpgGary Stern is the Joker, and screwing people over on a high ticket item.

-4
#32 5 years ago

Keep voting and keep Erak's post alive.

-3
#33 5 years ago

I am laughing at the negative numbers.
People need to wake up, and stop supporting a company that gives bad service.

-1
#34 5 years ago

Everyone dissatisfied with Stern, please talk on this blog.

#35 5 years ago

your psycho.

-4
#36 5 years ago

Truth hurts.

-1
#37 5 years ago

The author of this blog isn't happy with Stern.
Is he psycho too?

#38 5 years ago

no, but you keep coming back here with mini diatribes. You are psycho, he is just venting a bit.

#39 5 years ago

Plus this isnt a blog FYI.

#40 5 years ago

So, did this asshat's suspension just lift?

#41 5 years ago
Quoted from gambit3113:

So, did this asshat's suspension just lift?

I dont know but he needs another one. Please report this guy with the !! above his posts.

-3
#42 5 years ago

It is good to be back.
Actually lifted a long time ago.

#43 5 years ago

My bad, known troll. I will no longer feed!

#44 5 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

My bad, known troll. I will no longer feed!

He maybe on track to have negitive points. Yeah he is just a troll and on many ignores already.

#45 5 years ago

My vote would be:
I did not and will not buy any NIB stern but wait patiently until code is finished and game tested to choose the ones I love. The secondary market suits me fine. There are already a number of very good recent - or not so recent - Sterns on the market I would like to own (ACDC, TSPP, Shrek, SM, Batman, X-men to name a few - pretty sure I will add Metallica to this list when code is complete).

#46 5 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

My vote would be:
I did not and will not buy any NIB stern but wait patiently until code is finished and game tested to choose the ones I love. The secondary market suits me fine. There are already a number of very good recent - or not so recent - Sterns on the market I would like to own (ACDC, TSPP, Shrek, SM, Batman, X-men to name a few - pretty sure I will add Metallica to this list when code is complete).

Question is, can a METLE be had for MSRP now, or especially after the code drop? To some, price doesnt matter and thats cool, which means you can wait it out.

#47 5 years ago
Quoted from GravitaR:

Oh great, another thread to bash a manufacturer and you wonder why Stern and others don't post here at all. Still very surprised JJP staff post here given the hostile environment that exists towards them.

Did you read my initial 1st post? This post is not bashing Stern pins. (I love my Stern pins) It is however trying to get an opinion of owners and those thinking of owning stern pins. I just feel, and it seem many other do too that stern needs to change how they deal with new pins, code, and communication with customers regarding it.
As any questions or comments about it are deleated from their websites and their facebook page. And there is little to no communication from Stern. Leaving customers in the dark. And not completing games or commenting on code for months after release.

And hopefully someone from Stern would read this. And hopefully look at the pole as contructive criticism, and try to accommodate or at least try to change a little to make current customers happy and gain the trust of new ones.

Like some have suggested on here.... I will not buy another Stern until the game is complete. Or if they change how they desl with communication.

Eg. (New game name "X") is now in production. Game "X" initial release will include these features as per release statements. Updates and bug fixes will be coming and the 1st updates are projected for the quarter x of year x. With future updates planned which will continue to be announced prior to release until final completion expected quarter x of year x.

#48 5 years ago

Just out of morbid curiosity, just what would stern say that would be satisfactory? Even if they showed us every line of commented code as it was written and did a video blog to explain the comments it wouldn't make it be released any sooner. Why not just let them do their jobs and be happy when you get something new instead of worrying about it?

#49 5 years ago

Eg. (New game name "X") is now in production. Game "X" initial release will include these features as per release statements. Updates and bug fixes will be coming and the 1st updates are projected for the quarter x of year x. With future updates planned which will continue to be announced prior to release until final completion expected quarter x of year x.

Not only would this let current buyers/customers know they are not forgotten but also let potential buyers know when an estimated date the game will actually be completed, and that it is still being worked on. Nothing set in stone. But it would make a lot of people happy.

Specific eg of how they ooerate now. You are left in the dark for months after buying a game, then before an update is released for your game a new title is announced. As this is their current M.O.

#50 5 years ago
Quoted from erak:

Updates and bug fixes will be coming and the 1st updates are projected for the quarter x of year x. With future updates planned which will continue to be announced prior to release until final completion expected quarter x of year x.

All those missed predictions of release dates has done wonders for JJP's public image. Surely Stern should follow and try to do the impossible task you ask for. Sheesh.

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