Over it.

Back on topic,

It's as simple as this:

You are NOT protected as a seller being paid by "Gift" if the buyer disputes the gift payment on their credit card.

(very odd how the majority of Pinsiders got it wrong in the poll ????)

I think trust is the big issue. Red flags on a buyer are usually noticeable even before payment method is decided. I took payment from paypal before and told the buyer to send it gift and he'd have to wait a week before it cleared with my bank. He was ok with that and we had no issues. But we met on pinside, not eBay or some other red flag third party site.

Buying a pinball machine? Use PayPal goods and services and split the costs with the seller. That's fair for BOTH parties. Done.

Guess I wont ask if I can use Paypal for our transaction!

He said, "When necessary." Is it necessary? If so, he'll use PP.

lol.

Are you the one that I am getting messages about? A message has made its way around AZ today saying beware of the out of stater trying to buy a pin and paying through paypal.

^^LMAO^^

It's just sad how many people want to use a service, but don't want to pay for it. Those same people would be really upset if they provided a service and didn't get paid for it. PayPal doesn't have to offer the free 'gift' option, but they do.

Is it safe to shoplift?

I mean, hell, should razorblades REALLY be so effin' expensive?!?!! Bull$hit, just stuff 'em in your pocket and take them.... Right?

Sure I could refuse to BUY the razorblades if I thought they cost too much, but I still kinda want them... so, I guess THEN its ok to steal them....right?

Most people just don't understand the "service" that Paypal is offering.

If they did, they would choose an escrow service where BOTH the buyer and seller are equally protected.

It's good for Paypal, because when the credit card company reverses the charges, they can just say "Hey, Gifts are only to be sent to friends - you guys figure it out amongst yourselves" and thus avoid the whole thing.

Agreed. My point is- if people don't like paypal's policy, they should abstain from using it- not steal the services.

And, regarding paypal "not getting involved" to help settle gift disputes- why the hell should they? What revenue is supposed to pay for that work/effort/service?

They charge a fee if the Gift comes from a credit card - so sellers assume that PP should come to their rescue when the buyer reverses the charges.

Instead they don't have the money or the pinball machine.

Sellers are shocked that the Gift payments that "can't be disputed" are easily reversed.

Oh this threads not dead yet? I'll come back in a few days and check on it...

Shocked?

It's so simple:

Why would someone ever have to dispute a gift?

To steal a pinball machine, of course.

Tough shit for them then as far as I'm concerned.

PayPal gift is NOT to be used when products or services are exchanged. Anyone who DOES use gift (to avoid paypal fees) is ripping off paypal so if THEY get ripped off? Karma.

Fromm PayPal:
“gift” or “personal” payments are intended as transfer of funds from family or friends to one another. For this reason, there is no processing fee when payment is made with bank or PayPal balance. On the other hand, as it is a “personal” payment, there is no Buyer or Seller Protection Policy, as no goods or services have been exchanged.

LMAO!!!

Ah, but this is how that genius piece of social engineering works:

MOST people believe that Paypal Gift can not be reversed (just look at the fools in the poll above).

So people are using Paypal Gift, not as a way to save 2.9%, but as "guaranteed funds" that can't be charged back like regular Paypal transactions.

Like all widely held beliefs (Cashier's checks clear in 48 hours, lol), it does not take long for the scammers to exploit them:

Scammer: Can I pay you with Paypal?
Seller: No, you might file a dispute and I'll be out $8,000 .
Scammer: Tell you what, I trust you so much, I'll pay you with a Paypal Gift!
Seller: (thinks to himself) There is no way to dispute a Paypal Gift.
Scammer: What do you say partner? I really want that game.
Seller: Hell yeah, I can't lose.

Exactly. And friends and family exchange gifts. It happens all the time. You just need to figure out who your friends really are. And as long as Paypal has gift service available, they have no business questioning who is and who isn't your friend.

Always amused by people that take the time to click into a thread and post in it (bumping it in the process) and complaining about the thread being boring or repetitive, etc.

You do get the whole "you don't need to read it" part of how Internet forums work, right?

No maybe you can explain it to me

The last post before mine was a whopping 4 minutes before. The topic has been discussed to death. A former PayPal employee posted the damn rules but you still feel the need to discuss?

You do get the whole "beating a dead horse" thing, right? No? Maybe this will help.

image-961.jpg

Paypal, accepted daily for millions of transactions, and all the buyer has to do is dispute and they get all their money back...okay.

Let's just stop using amex, visa, mc and discover while were at it.

We are talking about Paypal GIFT and the unique EXPLOIT you can SCAM with it.

If you want to steal from a regular Paypal transaction, don't dispute, simply say the item is counterfeit:

http://www.businessinsider.com/paypal-violin-destroy-return-refund-2012-1

I'd try- but I just don't think you'd get it...

Proof being you're STILL posting here.... bored or attention-starved??

Morning I LOVE PayPal Bump!

pancake_bunny.jpg

Screw paypal. Greedy bastards. Between Ebay and paypal (which is the same company) they take a 20% cut from anything you sell. When I got into ebay and paypal. Paypal charged you 0% (that's right 0) Until ebay bought them.

Ebay used to charge .5%, 1% and 1.5% in fees as well. You think they would make that up in volume by being popular and not have to increase the prices, but they do, because they can. Plus they Force you to have to take paypal when you list an auction. Never used to be like that. Plus, they charge you %'s on shipping as well. So screw ebay and screw Paypal, they are getting theirs in the long run.

Listen to him! This is true! I learned the hard way!

Okay, so what is the best alternative if you're selling a pin to someone outside of driving distance?

MO, check, Bank wire, cash in FedEx Overnight. (I've done it many times)

With PayPal, you can buy a machine, and have it put on your credit card. That could help someone who wants to buy a pin but doesn't have all the cash.

Buying a pinball machine on a credit card. So not only does Paypal collect fees, then so does the credit card company. Great idea! Especially for someone that can't afford it.

I didn't say that it was a good or bad idea. All I said was that it's there as a buying option.

I don't make judgments on people concerning their finances and how they use them, that's for the buyer to decide.

Me neither. It is after all the American way!

...along with Truth and Justice....

superman floating.gif

that's the american way. We live in debt. Our country runs on debt.

..baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet......

LOL Right!?

hot dogs, apple pie, baseball, Chevrolet, home, foreclosure, bankruptcy, mom and dads' basement.

Sing along now...

Yeah...we took over one of the old paypal buildings after all the paypal employees moved into their new luxury resort. Wow, you guys left a heck of a mess when you moved out!!!

So many people complain about paypal but have never had the 'joy' of using another credit processor. They are all the same - they all charge fees but most of the others are higher. Customer service - Paypal has them easily beat (believe it or not). After lots of investigation - I use Paypal for all now. Planning to use Paypal Advanced but for some reason my website doesn't yet work...one of these days. For convenience, fees and reliability - Paypal has all the others easily beat.

In retrospect, I have used paypal on many occasions and never had a problem. I used them again last night to make purchases for pinball parts. It is convenient and seems safe as a buyer. However, having money in an account there and having them not let me use it taught me a lesson. Use it sparingly. If you are a vendor, I guess there aren't too many other options.

Yo O!

Just read your post. Just so you know, you do NOT have to give PP a dime to hold in a separate account for you. If they told you that, that's terrible and wrong.

Our PP account is directly linked to our personal bank account. Anytime we make a purchase via PP, it gets deducted right from our bank.

Now, as I said a couple days ago, our credit card is also linked in with our PP account. The reason that is is because I bought my wife a Baby Grand Player Piano. That through us over $12,000 used with PP. Once you reach the $12K plateau (which I believe is now $10K) you can no longer use their service unless you link a credit card to the account to secure payment funds. Never understood why you had to do that because who's to say I can't cancel my credit card or max it out at anytime? But it is kind of cool because (as we talked about the other day) if you then wanted to purchase something, you can use your credit card if you so choose. Not the wisest thing to do, but there as an option should you want to do that.

Hope that helps clear things up for you or anyone else in the same boat. Personally, it pisses me off if PP told you that you HAD to deposit fund into a separate PP account to use their service. That's not true and PP should stop telling potential customers that.

Take care and have a great day all.

What happened was that I had money in the account and I couldn't send it. I got to a point in the transaction where they demanded my social security number before I could continue. No matter how many of their reps told my I could now use it, I couldn't get past that screen. I finally caved in and put in my social and it worked, but I was then unable to remove my social from my account as one of the reps told me I would be able to after the transaction.
Is that a good way to do business? I am only going to use paypal for small purchases from now on, and never will I let them be in control of a larger balance again.

I will add that this was a result of the only time I had ever received money or had an account ballance, and it was under $4000.

I had the same thing happen to me. I had to give them my SS# when we bought the piano. I'll admit, I didn't want to give it and I was pissed. But they wouldn't send the money if I didn't either give my Social, or use a credit card for the transaction. Well, I wasn't paying with a credit card, (At this point my CC wasn't linked to the account. After this transaction, I needed to give it or I couldn't use their service any longer.) so I caved in and gave them my SS#. As much as I was pissed with PP, I later thought about it and looked at it in a positive light. They're just doing this to protect me and keep my $ safe. So, I didn't feel as bad after I looked at it like that.

But you know, nothing's perfect. Every system for paying now-a-days is flawed. Hec, you can't even go into a store and use a card without some group of hackers stealing you info from these places. See Target for the latest fiasco. We needed to get new debit cards because of that situation. So, unless you can always pay with cash, you have to use what's available to us. For me, PP is the best of the worst and I'll continue to use them

Security is one thing, but then having no info about this in their user agreement, and representatives tell me that this is not required and asking me a bunch of security questions to bypass that and still not having it work is the part that bothers me. Full disclosure it was not.

Exactly, and I was thinking the same thing.

Of course they charge a fee if the gift comes from a CC, since they get charged a fee when a CC is used.