I've personally never had a problem accepting payment as a 'gift'. However, that said, I do not accept Paypal as payment on a pinball machine. I do it for down payment perhaps. I think the risk would be that Paypal finds that you are trying to scam their fees and freezes your account.

No, it is actually safer to accept a merchandise payment than a gift, but only for items shipped with tracking.

But there is not recourse for a buyer that sends money as a gift, right? They don't have the option to make a claim for undelivered or unsatisfactory items on a gift, right?

I will not accept paypal any other way. I don't even like using paypal anymore since they started taking %'s. So I refuse to pay any %'s to them.

If they file a chargeback with their payment source, PayPal will not fight it on gifts, and will reverse the payment.

Do you just not use any online payments at all? I don't think there is any alternative that doesn't take a cut.

check or m.o. is what I prefer, or cash when you pick up in person. Cash is king.

Wrong: you are not scamming Paypals Fees, because when you gift a payment you pay the fees, not the seller.

Also wrong. The buyer (Paypal Gift) has no recourse if the seller does not send the item or the item is not as promised.

It is always acceptable for the seller to accept a "Gift Payment" because

1) there are no fees deducted from the payment. (The buyer pays the fees)

2) the buyer cannot cancel or protest the charge.

It is not very safe for the buyer though.

Both your "wrongs" are wrong.

PayPal does not charge fees for personal payments funded by PayPal balance. It is a violation of the user agreement to use personal payments for sale transactions. They do audit accounts and ban people who accept gifts for business, and multi-thousand dollar payments for pinballs will put you on the top of the list.

PayPal DOES charge a fee for payments funded by credit or debit, for both merchandise and gifts. The sender can choose who pays the fee. And those credit or debit-funded payments are subject to chargeback. The recipient has no way of knowing a payment was funded by credit card until they get the chargeback.

Take Iceman's advice at your peril!

Iceman is definitely wrong that the seller pays the fees.....there are no fees when you gift on either side.....I would just do a wire transfer if it was me and I was shipping (which I don't) and if he picked it up then I always do cash.

Paypal is good for a small deposit at best. Who needs the issues that could occur so I would just go with a good ole wire transfer if it is a large amount.

Good luck.

That is absolutely incorrect. The only time fees don't apply is if you are using your PayPal balance. Gift option can still have fees. The sender decides who pays them. This point has been made already. Not trying to be a dick, I just think people need to know the facts.

That's news to me. Is this a new policy? I've handled a couple hundred Paypal gifts (honest to goodness gifts to charity), and I cannot recall once being charged on either end of such a transaction. I do pay the fees when purchasing through Paypal. If they don't make money, they aren't going to stay in business, and it is my choice to use them for this purpose. Moreover, Paypal has been a great help in raising money for charitable causes. By the way, I've spoken with them directly when handling such sums so that they know why thousands of dollars are going through my account. They've never created a problem for me.

Actually, I think the distinction is that fees are charged when funds are not drawn directly out of one's bank account (e.g., charged to a credit card), which makes sense since the transaction does have costs to them.

News to me as well......my experience is exactly like yours.....

Could be a combination of all of us being partially right. I think you are right about the bank account. I know for a fact if you gift via credit card the sender decides who pays the fees. Like I said not being a dick or at least not intentionally. Just trying to state what my experience has been.

If the sender uses pp and it draws against senders connected bank DEBIT card because sender doesn't have $ in pp account, sender will be charged a fee for gift.

This is true and Paypal would be actively losing money if they didn't because the CC company takes a cut of every transaction.

Here, have a picture of what the sender sees when using a card to pay a gift. No more speculation needed.
paypalfee.png

Question...Is there ZERO risk on the seller by accepting payment for a pin via paypal gift? Isnt it possible for the buyer to report the gift as fraud to his CC and thereby paypal takes the $ back from the seller?

The answer is, NO, there is NEVER a PayPal payment that comes with ZERO risk.
And YES, the buyer can chargeback the gift and the seller loses the money plus a chargeback fee.

Edit - F*ck it

There is 1000% risk to the seller.

All the buyer has to do is dispute the Paypal charge with their credit card company and the seller loses all the money.

Would you care to test this theory?

Not mathematically possible. Does not compute

- Stephen Hawking

I think a lot of people voting yes it is safe are confusing claims/disputes with chargebacks. A gift is still subject to chargeback, the credit card company is the one who decides how things will turn out, and you guessed it, it can take a long time. You can withdraw the gift money, if the chargeback happens (AND IT CAN) you'll have the money you deposited and a negative account balance which eventually gets sent to collections.

Here's a thread on this exact situation that I found on another forum: https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/My-Feedback-for-PayPal-Archive/Chargebacks-amp-quot-unauthorized-quot-transactions-PayPal-is/td-p/713439

paypal DOES make money off of interest when they hold funds for weeks at a time or freeze someones account who has funds in paypal. They don't only survive off of "fees".
Paypal and ebay are the same people, and since ebay forces sellers to use them, think of how much paypal makes from ebay sellers alone.

correct.

If the gift payment comes from a checking account or directly from cash in their paypal account there is little to no risk, but if paid with a credit card then there is no guarantee for the seller. The buyer simply files a report with their credit card company and that credit card company will instantly yank back the money back from paypal and then paypal will do the same to the seller.

Why did you start the poll?
It seems like you already decided the answer for yourself, OP.

It's safe if both parties are decent, trustworthy human beings.

If you are a buyer, and you don't trust the seller, then don't gift.

If you are a seller, and you suspect the buyer is capable of shenanigans, then don't accept Paypal at all.

Be prepared to pay the Paypal fees if it gives you piece of mind, though....or just go with cash, money order, or some other form of payment.

Pete

Paypal is a joke! I reluctantly took full payment for a pin through Paypal, but found that I could only withdraw $500 a month unless I spent the money because I preferred not to link my bank account. So when I decided to send that money, they wouldn't let me without linking my bank account or giving them my social security number, even though I had no spending limit for money in my account. I spent hours on the phone with them trying to get this straightened out, during which time they asked me security questions about my long dead grandmother, like how old is she. In the end it is a fuck story that never got straightened out.

Do you have a PayPal card? You can take out $400 a day.

It may not be a matter of trusting each other is may be a matter of not wanting to deal with Paypal. Paypal has many rules and some sellers just don't want to deal with those headaches. If you have a Personal account, after a certain number of payments for goods and services you will need to upgrade to a Premier account per the Paypal site. Also as of 2011:

PayPal is required by the IRS to report the sales of goods and services for customers who, in a single year receive:
• More than $20,000, AND
• 200 or more payments.

The new IRS 6050W changes apply to all payment providers, including PayPal. This includes payments received after January 1, 2011, with the first reports sent to the IRS in early 2012. So do you really want Paypal tracking your transactions? Whose to say the rules won't change or one or two large transactions like selling a pinball might trigger the seller to hit one of the thresholds? Some sellers may not want to tie their paypal to a savings/checking account. There are a multitude of reasons.

If you want to buy a machine and use paypal then find a seller who will accept it or move on. Think of it this way if you were selling a machine and had multiple folks interested and one wanted to pay cash and the other paypal which person would you sell to?

I would have less trust in Paypal than I would in most pinball buyers.

Yeah. When I far surpassed the limit I asked what I could do. Could I open another account under my wife's name? Yup! Then you can do double with no report. When I submitted everything to my accountant last year for taxes, he said to claim SOMETHING and not take the chance.

Got to tell you my Friend in South Carolina did the SAME thing with his Wife...BUT they got "caught" and Paypal linked both accounts together and he Got Royally screwed come tax time. Just letting ya know.

If you're buying something from $1-$500 I would PP gift it. People you deal with on here are not going to be selling things to then scam you and have you come here and bash them so they can never sell again. And the more Karma points that a person has, the more confident you can feel in that person because you know he's been here for a while and he probably has a good reputation.

Now, if you're buying a pin that needs to be shipped and you have to use PP. Don't gift it. Sorry, If I'm going to spend a couple to 5 grand on a game, I not only want to protect myself, but the seller too. But what you can do and what I think is very fair, is to SPLIT the cost of the PP charges. Now everyone is protected (shipping included) and everyone is happy.

Using myself as an example...I bought a NIB TFLE for $5,200 including the shipping from an awesome site member here. He wanted me to gift him the money. And we had talked several times on the phone and I trusted him 1000%. No offense though, when it's that kind of money, you need to be protected. So, I said, hey, PP charges 1.9% for a transaction (if I remember right. Not 100% positive though.) I want us both to be protected, so lets go through the regular PP service and we'll split the cost of the fees. He said that sounded great and that's what we did. IMO, I think that is the fair and respectful thing to do.

Paypal is no longer my friend. But I will keep using it only when necessary . I may even close my account and start a new one. I can't believe the total lack of competence in their customer support group.

Cash. Just don't put yourself in a life situation that prevents you from selling comfortably. Problem solved.

While we can't predict the future, we can certainly prepare for it.

I used to work for paypal - not as an account person... But here are a few things to consider.

Fees. They get taken out of *all* credit card transactions. Its just transparent to the buyer.
The fees are always paid by the seller, and are a cost of doing business. What paypal had done is made the fees a little more visible. Naturally sellers don't want to eat that 3% fee, so its become a point of negotiation and not baked into the price. I think most people get that. And its hard for sellers to be competetive when one guy lists a cash price, and someone else lists their credit price.

So when you pay with gift, or basically not using the 'pay for goods or services' option. You don't get any protection from paypal. The 'protection' mechanism falls back to a dispute with your card provider, Visa, Mastercard, whoever. Which is a huge reason you should always make major puchases on a credit card, IMO.

What I've always done when I have a seller that wants to add a credit card fee is just add the percentage to what I send them as a goods and services transaction. Its not hard to figure out (price) * 1.03 = what i send. I also generally ask them to meet me in the middle on the fee... End result is that the protection layer is in place.

Paypal will even tell you - don't use the gift option unless its really a gift.

I've bought I don't know how many tens of thousands of dollars in car parts and such using paypal almost exclusively. Never had a single issue.

All the other restrictions - transfers without a linked account, max transactions, etc...
you can blame all that on the government. They need to make sure you aren't using paypal for tax evasion or to launder money to terrorists.

That said, paypal actually has their shit together with customer support. They run their call center in house, its not out sourced to a third party. And I don't work there anymore, so I have no vested interest... couldn't care less what people use.

I just like it because it doesn't expose my information to the parties i'm paying. No chance of some phone agent scribbling down my card number, no one is going to skim my card info. It limits my risk of doing business with people I can't talk to in person.

Moral of the story really is follow the rules.

I blame that on Paypal for not having it in their user agreement. Again, I was unable to send money that was already in my paypal account.

Just to clarify, this thread is about gift payments, which are not for "goods and services" and therefore do not count toward those thresholds. So you can gift away all you want without worrying about any tax implications.

o-din, its listed in section 3.1 that there are limits imposed, and it instructs you to log in to see what those limits are.
Its also listed under the help section - Account Limitations.

I get it though, its a 27 page user agreement - who reads that crap

What does it mean when I log into my account and it says Limit-lifted. I was on the phone for hours trying to get them to help me with my transaction. They kept telling me OK, try it now. But to no avail. One told me to have the other party initiate a send money form, but that eliminates the gift factor. Get the picture now?

And the point of the thread is about using gift option for things its not for.
I'm kind of indirectly answering the OP's question.
Its against their terms of service. Its not 'safe' under paypal's umbrella.
It goes to a credit card dispute. If its not backed by a credit card, and you pulled funds from your bank account directly... its a local law enforcement issue. And have fun with that.

I'm not going to pretend i know all the deep dark inner workings... But I definitely understand the frustration.
I don't know under what circumstances, or if at all they can temporarily lift restrictions.

spp.jpg